Wowzer - Lollapalooza May Have Been A Target
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Wowzer - Lollapalooza May Have Been A Target

By WookieMan following x   2017 Oct 5, 8:56am 366 views   13 comments   watch   quote     share  


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-las-vegas-gunman-lollapalooza-20171005-story.html
This would have been massively worse if he did it during this event. These type of events are going to be a challenge moving forward. There are so many buildings overlooking Grant Park in Chicago that it would literally be impossible to stop this in the future. I know other cities have this issue, but Las Vegas had what 22,000 at the concert. There can easily be 80-100k in Grant Park for a variety of events (Lolla, Championship celebrations, etc).
1 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 5, 9:03am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Forgot the image that I wanted to attach. I generally don't let an attack like this phase me, but I would seriously reconsider any outdoor large crowd musical festival with high up locations surrounding you. WTF you do here? 50,000 people can't all hide behind trees.
2 Rin   ignore (7)   2017 Oct 5, 12:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

WookieMan says
I generally don't let an attack like this phase me, but I would seriously reconsider any outdoor large crowd musical festival with high up locations surrounding you. WTF you do here? 50,000 people can't all hide behind trees.


Gillette Stadium, 1 hour from Boston.



Basically, any open venue from an urban locale is going to be a problem.
3 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 5, 3:11pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Rin says
Gillette Stadium, 1 hour from Boston.



Basically, any open venue from an urban locale is going to be a problem.

I get it, but where is the high ground there around the stadium for a shooter? Someone would have to get at least 1-2 weapons that Paddock had inside that stadium to even remotely do as much damage. Haven't been to a Patriots game, but imagine stadium security across the country is pretty standardized now and it would be impossible outside of the owner to get a long gun/rifle into a stadium. Unless behind that view there are some rather large high rises.

I was more or less focusing on the surrounding buildings. The buildings in the background are basically South Loop. You then have a wall of them along Michigan Ave. overlooking that same park. Then to the North at Randolph another wall of buildings. In a coordinated attack with similar weapons it would be outright devastating given crowds that can be 4-5X's Las Vegas. Someone south, someone west and someone north. There are trees, fountains, some single story structures and parking garage access points to hide behind or get underground and that's about it. It would be catastrophic. I'm actually astonished Obama had his election victory party here, I believe in '08. Can't remember if he did it in '12.
4 BayAreaObserver   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 5, 5:26pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Given the shooter upended a well rehearsed and planned counter terrorism plan in Las Vegas one wonders what the result would have been in another city ? Now that the bar has been set so to speak, no doubt as we are going about our business this evening someone is already planning on how to outdo what has just been done to get their five minutes of infamy.

How the Las Vegas shooter foiled a well-drilled counter-terrorism plan

Las Vegas had spent years planning for the worst: training its police force according to an anti-terrorism protocol it adopted in 2009 to respond to mass shootings, chemical attacks, suicide bombings, and planes flying into buildings, according to city officials and security professionals.

But when it came to Sunday night’s attack that killed 58 people and wounded hundreds more at an open-air concert in the city, police found themselves with few options to stop the gunman quickly, they said. It underscored the difficulty American cities face in protecting citizens from attacks that can take unpredictable forms.

Paddock had pulled the city into a nightmare that left him virtually unopposed for crucial minutes, with police unable to safely return fire.

The angles, the distances, and the presence of thousands of people made it impossible, they said.

“Our officers showed incredible restraint. They can fire that distance. It’s not safe to do so,” said Robert Chamberlin, a member of the Las Vegas police department’s counter-terrorism force. “You are firing 32 floors up, from 500 meters (yards). So the trajectory of our rounds...even if we were accurate, they’re going to go up into the ceiling, up into the next floor.”

More: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-lasvegas-shooting-plan/how-the-las-vegas-shooter-foiled-a-well-drilled-counter-terrorism-plan-idUSKBN1CA29N
5 TwoScoopsMcGee   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 5, 5:31pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

The security guard banged on the door about 10 minutes after the event started.

Paddock took a shot at the door, then either committed suicide or shot himself. From the photo, all the long arms are around him and one is partially on top of his leg. It's theorized he grabbed the guns in a hurry and "Hugged them", then shot himself in the head with the hammerless revolver by accident.

If intentional, he did a shitty job and it's clear he writhed in agony for a long time (deservedly so) or shot himself by accident in the face but it wasn't immediately fatal..

Some believe he was planning to escape, but panicked when the security guard knocked on his door with his stick, thinking the police reacted already when he planned on having a good long time.

The WHY of it all is clearly missing; however when you consider he grew up "on the run" with his dad on the FBI Most Wanted List, he may have thought of it as a "Lifetime Achievement" to imitate dad. In any case, more and more steam is building up behind the idea that this was all well-planned in advance.
6 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 5, 5:58pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

BayAreaObserver says
“Our officers showed incredible restraint. They can fire that distance. It’s not safe to do so,” said Robert Chamberlin, a member of the Las Vegas police department’s counter-terrorism force. “You are firing 32 floors up, from 500 meters (yards). So the trajectory of our rounds...even if we were accurate, they’re going to go up into the ceiling, up into the next floor.”

I know you're quoting this from the article, but whoever said this is a walking idiot. "they're going to go up into the ceiling, up into the next floor." Would love to know the weapon our police force have that can shoot through concrete floors. I'm 99.9% sure that was the construction method, so not sure how he can describe that happening and he's a part of the counter terrorism force. Scary.

Sure you can miss and it goes through a window on the wrong floor. Hopefully that's what he meant, but I don't think it is. I definitely don't think shooting from the ground would have been remotely effective at all, but this quote should have never been used in any news source. Let alone someone saying this from a major city's terrorism task force. Again, scary.
7 BayAreaObserver   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 5, 6:04pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

I remember seeing the hotel as it was finishing up but most likely concrete floors, if that was cheapest way to go.

Kind of surprising what will be coming out in the days and weeks ahead for sure and yet we will be revisiting all of this down the road in another city at another venue. Just don't see this as the final episode and not sure when and if it will end.
8 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 5, 6:58pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

BayAreaObserver says
Just don't see this as the final episode and not sure when and if it will end.

I hear you. Attacks like these I usually just brush off besides the obvious tragedy involved. And obviously this was bound to happen at some point. But I definitely will question going to an event in an urban area now with high rises surrounding it or higher ground. Grant Park in Chicago is a prime example of where this could have been exponentially worse if that makes sense. Hence why the Lolla possibility was fucking crazy compared to Vegas. If there's coordination or terrorist and they're south, west and north, they could likely have every (most/many) angle covered in a park with 100,000+ people in it.

I'm also older now (yet still younger I'm guessing than the average patnet demo) and have less interest in going into Chicago for an event like this. These outdoor events moving forward are going to have some serious logistical and security concerns, that's for sure. And lucky Chicago, we have the marathon this weekend. Probably the largest outdoor event in the country the first weekend following this shit.
9 anonymous   ignore (5)   2017 Oct 5, 7:23pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

BayAreaObserver says
Just don't see this as the final episode and not sure when and if it will end.

Neither do I. Usually events like this don't personally bother me, in that I fear going places or doing something after them. I seriously now have some concerns about large gatherings in urban areas now (with high positions around them - not stadiums per se). There of course was always a possibility of something happening at any large gathering. But when I look at things in my own back yard. The fact the guy potentially booked rooms here for Lolla. If there was any coordination between 3-5 people for that event, it could have been awful. There's literally no where to go in Grant park if you're flanked on the south, west and north. He shot for roughly 10-12 minutes. Get three people doing that with 5X's the crowd numbers as Vegas and the same amount of time? Jesus.
10 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 5, 7:53pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Hey @Patrick, is there a delay for anon users? I posted this and it didn't show up for 20 minutes. So I rewrote as much as a I could in the post above. Now I see it was here all along: anonymous says
BayAreaObserver says
Just don't see this as the final episode and not sure when and if it will end.

Neither do I. Usually events like this don't personally bother me, in that I fear going places or doing something after them. I seriously now have some concerns about large gatherings in urban areas now (with high positions around them - not stadiums per se). There of course was always a possibility of something happening at any large gathering. But when I look at things in my own back yard. The fact the guy potentially booked rooms here for Lolla. If there was any coordination between 3-5 people for that event, it could have been awful. There's literally no where to go in Grant park if you're flanked on the south, west and north. He shot for roughly 10-12 minutes. Get three people doing that with 5X's the crowd numbers as Vegas and the same amount of time? Jesus.

Sorry, between work email, personal email and my fuck around email I'm operating 3 different browsers and sometimes catch myself posting anon. I always flag it though when I do for those of you concerned about a wookie's integrity.
11 Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 5, 8:12pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

WookieMan says
is there a delay for anon users? I posted this and it didn't show up for 20 minutes


Anonymous comments which include any http link are held in moderation until I can check that they are not spam.

Unfortunately, that includes any http link back to a quote from patrick.net. Need to fix that.
12 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 5, 8:18pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

It's fine. I actually like seeing how I rewrote something that was in my mind after I already had it all down and can see both versions. It actually does help with writing. Let's me see two different thought processes from myself. Now that I know the accidental comment may be held in moderation, I'll be more patient to not rewrite or remember what I wrote the first time around though.
13 NoYes   ignore (2)   2017 Oct 5, 9:26pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

safe with rock n roll...nobody doesn't not like rock...country always seemed a little lame to me...boring...time to move on

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