patrick.net
An Antidote to Corporate Media
1,189,999 comments by 13,851 users - 6DOF, RWSGFY online now
invite responseComments 1 - 16 of 16 Search these comments
1
anonymous
2017 Oct 5, 6:50pm
For starters - great writing I was looking for a link but with none given, I assume you are the author?
I think the root problem is many of these attacks are so fantastic (and I mean that perjoratively) what do we guard against regarding our public spaces, or our infrastructure? For the determined individuals is there ANY measure we can implement which they cannot defeat in some unforeseen and spectacular way?
Maybe instead of our infrastructure we look at the individuals. While there is some evidence paddock recently had some mental health issues- he obviously could not have been as successful as he was for most of his life unless he was mostly lucid. So do we just mandate every 2-3 year mental evaluations for our citizenry? Now you are talking really Orwellian shit here.
Bottom line is while I sympathize with your concerns- you aren't going to convince regular guys like me that unless you have some "Aha" moment of clairvoyance we all missed - the best "least worse" solution is to shrug our shoulders and go on with life.
I think the root problem is many of these attacks are so fantastic (and I mean that perjoratively) what do we guard against regarding our public spaces, or our infrastructure? For the determined individuals is there ANY measure we can implement which they cannot defeat in some unforeseen and spectacular way?
Maybe instead of our infrastructure we look at the individuals. While there is some evidence paddock recently had some mental health issues- he obviously could not have been as successful as he was for most of his life unless he was mostly lucid. So do we just mandate every 2-3 year mental evaluations for our citizenry? Now you are talking really Orwellian shit here.
Bottom line is while I sympathize with your concerns- you aren't going to convince regular guys like me that unless you have some "Aha" moment of clairvoyance we all missed - the best "least worse" solution is to shrug our shoulders and go on with life.
2
Ceffer
2017 Oct 5, 11:29pm
Ceffer
2017 Oct 5, 11:29pm
"We are still struggling to find a motive for the killings."
Duhhhhh. Disgruntled aging gambling addict dousing booze while gambling tens of thousands of dollars a day until his grubstake dwindles (they don't comp rooms because they are losing money) develops slight resentment at his lost nest egg and goes on murderous rampage against the city and casinos that cleaned him out.
Gee, that doesn't sound like motive to me.
It sounds like motive for most of the gambling addict OldFucks that the casinos have been making a living on since casinos were invented.
It's just surprising it hasn't happened more often and sooner.
Duhhhhh. Disgruntled aging gambling addict dousing booze while gambling tens of thousands of dollars a day until his grubstake dwindles (they don't comp rooms because they are losing money) develops slight resentment at his lost nest egg and goes on murderous rampage against the city and casinos that cleaned him out.
Gee, that doesn't sound like motive to me.
It sounds like motive for most of the gambling addict OldFucks that the casinos have been making a living on since casinos were invented.
It's just surprising it hasn't happened more often and sooner.
3
bob2356
2017 Oct 6, 7:04am
anonymous says
The system is broken at the most fundamental level. The founding fathers rightfully failed to anticipate the changes that would sweep society for 2 centuries. They designed a political and societal system around an agrarian world where accumulation of wealth and power were self limiting. The industrial revolution bringing about an explosion of wealth that was concentrated into fewer and fewer hands was obviously not anticipated. It is self perpetuating and accelerating.
The American political system is uniquely susceptible to the influence of money by business seeking self serving policies since the beginning. Each new wave of capital concentration has led to more influence. The only push back has been when greed became so overwhelming that it couldn't be ignored (trust busters at the end of the guilded age for example) or greed reached such heights it crashed the system (the depression). It is telling that the second greatest economic crash in American history in 2007 had virtually no push back against greed or business. The end game is pretty much reached at this point.
There will be no serious dialogue. The dialogue will be controlled by the interests that would be financially affected. Gun manufacturers say second amendment means no restrictions of any kind. Companies facing security breaches claim we can't have bureaucratic rules hindering profits. Corporate incompetence doesn't exist, it is just allegations made by overly aggressive government prosecutors (read The Chickenshit Club). The sheeple want to be told what to think. They will blindly follow a narrative as long as it agrees with what they want to believe. Look at the far right and far left on patnet. Thinking is hard, most people don't want to do it.
"The greatest country on earth"? Depends on your definition of greatest and the question of greatest at what. Any serious student of history or economics knows that American exceptionalism is a myth. No other country has anywhere near the combination of natural resources, agrarian land, easy transportation, and protection of two oceans. The luckiest country on earth is more accurate. Far too many people in America believe they are somehow smarter and better than the rest of the world rather than just lucky. Which makes facing up to serious problems that exist much more difficult. People just hide behind hey we're "The greatest country on earth".
The best "least worse" solution is to shrug our shoulders and go on with life. (To think that as a people we are willing to settle for the new normal within the "greatest nation on earth" that is unable or unwilling to start at a minimum a serious dialogue concerning mass killings, security breaches and corporate incompetence at the highest levels of government is deeply disturbing when we are capable of so much more)
The system is broken at the most fundamental level. The founding fathers rightfully failed to anticipate the changes that would sweep society for 2 centuries. They designed a political and societal system around an agrarian world where accumulation of wealth and power were self limiting. The industrial revolution bringing about an explosion of wealth that was concentrated into fewer and fewer hands was obviously not anticipated. It is self perpetuating and accelerating.
The American political system is uniquely susceptible to the influence of money by business seeking self serving policies since the beginning. Each new wave of capital concentration has led to more influence. The only push back has been when greed became so overwhelming that it couldn't be ignored (trust busters at the end of the guilded age for example) or greed reached such heights it crashed the system (the depression). It is telling that the second greatest economic crash in American history in 2007 had virtually no push back against greed or business. The end game is pretty much reached at this point.
There will be no serious dialogue. The dialogue will be controlled by the interests that would be financially affected. Gun manufacturers say second amendment means no restrictions of any kind. Companies facing security breaches claim we can't have bureaucratic rules hindering profits. Corporate incompetence doesn't exist, it is just allegations made by overly aggressive government prosecutors (read The Chickenshit Club). The sheeple want to be told what to think. They will blindly follow a narrative as long as it agrees with what they want to believe. Look at the far right and far left on patnet. Thinking is hard, most people don't want to do it.
"The greatest country on earth"? Depends on your definition of greatest and the question of greatest at what. Any serious student of history or economics knows that American exceptionalism is a myth. No other country has anywhere near the combination of natural resources, agrarian land, easy transportation, and protection of two oceans. The luckiest country on earth is more accurate. Far too many people in America believe they are somehow smarter and better than the rest of the world rather than just lucky. Which makes facing up to serious problems that exist much more difficult. People just hide behind hey we're "The greatest country on earth".
4
CL
2017 Oct 6, 7:51am
CL
2017 Oct 6, 7:51am
Ceffer says
I thought the latest was that he had also attempted to book rooms overlooking Chicago festivals, among others. If so, the gambling depression story doesn't add up exactly.
@BAO...nice write-up!
Duhhhhh. Disgruntled aging gambling addict dousing booze while gambling tens of thousands of dollars a day until his grubstake dwindles (they don't comp rooms because they are losing money) develops slight resentment at his lost nest egg and goes on murderous rampage against the city and casinos that cleaned him out.
Gee, that doesn't sound like motive to me.
I thought the latest was that he had also attempted to book rooms overlooking Chicago festivals, among others. If so, the gambling depression story doesn't add up exactly.
@BAO...nice write-up!
5
anonymous
2017 Oct 6, 7:56am
Peacock alert! BAO on the high horse orating us to sleep like a Chicago community organizer.
If if if if if if if if if okie doke.
If if if if if if if if if okie doke.
6
NDrLoR
2017 Oct 6, 8:49am
NDrLoR
2017 Oct 6, 8:49am
bob2356 says
Any serious student of history or economics knows that American exceptionalism is a myth.Then why was it not like this for so long? It seems like the Tower shooting at the UT of Texas in 1966, which killed "only" 18 but was simply unimaginable at the time, kind of brackets a 50 year period of social and cultural decline in which hard drugs entered society, all kinds of institutions and traditions were thrown away like so much garbage--marriage, stable families, religious observance in the Judeo-Christian traditions, the idea of self-restraint and self-control came to be seen as so much foolishness.
7
HEY YOU
2017 Oct 6, 8:52am
In the title,does "it" refer to Trump? lol
Today's pop quiz: Why has man been killing man since Cain & Able?
Hint: Man is a killer.
Today's pop quiz: Why has man been killing man since Cain & Able?
Hint: Man is a killer.
8
bob2356
2017 Oct 6, 11:34am
P N Dr Lo R says
Why was it not like what for so long? Which years of decline? The civil war? Guilded age? 1920's immigration? Depression? There is always a belief in a decline and that at some fuzzy time in the past things were better. Flooding the country with guns and glorifying a gun culture is going to have some downsides.
It's only the deadliest mass shooting of you dont' count black lives. Go look up Tulsa race riot, Bloody island massacre, Colfax massacre, Thibodaux Massacre, The Elaine Massacre, or Fort Pillow massacre.
That's not what belief in American exceptionalism means.
bob2356 saysAny serious student of history or economics knows that American exceptionalism is a myth.Then why was it not like this for so long? It seems like the Tower shooting at the UT of Texas in 1966, which killed "only" 18 but was simply unimaginable at the time, kind of brackets a 50 year period of social and cultural decline in which hard drugs entered society, all kinds of institutions and traditions were thrown away like so much garbage--marriage, stable families, religious observance in the Judeo-Christian traditions, the idea of self-restraint and self-control came to be seen as so much foolishness.
Why was it not like what for so long? Which years of decline? The civil war? Guilded age? 1920's immigration? Depression? There is always a belief in a decline and that at some fuzzy time in the past things were better. Flooding the country with guns and glorifying a gun culture is going to have some downsides.
It's only the deadliest mass shooting of you dont' count black lives. Go look up Tulsa race riot, Bloody island massacre, Colfax massacre, Thibodaux Massacre, The Elaine Massacre, or Fort Pillow massacre.
That's not what belief in American exceptionalism means.
9
bob2356
2017 Oct 6, 11:39am
me123 says
Just another cic dumbass thought. So if something can't prevent every lunatic then trying to preventing some lunatics isn't worth while. The perfect stooge of the gun industry.
Wow, I'm impressed, you got something right for a change.
You mean banning military assault weapons (typical semi auto rifles) and high capacity (standard) "clips" (magazines), wouldn't have prevented this lunatic?
Just another cic dumbass thought. So if something can't prevent every lunatic then trying to preventing some lunatics isn't worth while. The perfect stooge of the gun industry.
10
bob2356
2017 Oct 6, 4:18pm
me123 says
If there were a central registry of gun sales someone buying so many guns and so much ammo so quickly could have raised a flag to go question the guy and check him out. I don't know. Neither do you. You don't know what could have worked and you don't know what couldn't have worked.
So your position that nothing should ever be done because it can't be proved that it would have prevented something does a very nice job proving the point of what I said. No one can prove a negative. But then again you can't even prove a positive.
bob2356 saysSo if something can't prevent every lunatic then trying to preventing some lunatics isn't worth while. The perfect stooge of the gun industry.
So tell us, cranky Bob, what existing or new law would have prevented this shooting.
If there were a central registry of gun sales someone buying so many guns and so much ammo so quickly could have raised a flag to go question the guy and check him out. I don't know. Neither do you. You don't know what could have worked and you don't know what couldn't have worked.
So your position that nothing should ever be done because it can't be proved that it would have prevented something does a very nice job proving the point of what I said. No one can prove a negative. But then again you can't even prove a positive.
11
MisdemeanorRebel
2017 Oct 6, 8:25pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2017 Oct 6, 8:25pm
Since 1982, less people have been killed in mass shootings than were killed in the morning of 9/11/01.
Source: NRA Loving, Right Wing Mother Jones.
Wow, look at that clear trend. Keep in mind the US Population is about 100M people more since the chart begins.
Although they've got to be stripping out gang warfare, and possibly "Caught Spouse and Lover" style incidents.
Seems to me it would be money better spent to place visa expiration dates on Driver's Licenses and allow Police to check for Immigration Status and detain those who have overstayed, with the Fed Gov picking up the cost. Since, as many Lefties want to ignore, several 911 hijackers were stopped by police, and had we had ID checks like most of the Western world, with immediate deportation policies to match, we may very well wouldn't have even known we ever prevented anything.
Source: NRA Loving, Right Wing Mother Jones.
Wow, look at that clear trend. Keep in mind the US Population is about 100M people more since the chart begins.
Although they've got to be stripping out gang warfare, and possibly "Caught Spouse and Lover" style incidents.
Seems to me it would be money better spent to place visa expiration dates on Driver's Licenses and allow Police to check for Immigration Status and detain those who have overstayed, with the Fed Gov picking up the cost. Since, as many Lefties want to ignore, several 911 hijackers were stopped by police, and had we had ID checks like most of the Western world, with immediate deportation policies to match, we may very well wouldn't have even known we ever prevented anything.
12
komputodo
2017 Oct 6, 11:22pm
komputodo
2017 Oct 6, 11:22pm
TwoScoopsMcGee says
It's not about quantity, it's about quality.
Since 1982, less people have been killed in mass shootings than were killed in the morning of 9/11/01.
It's not about quantity, it's about quality.
13
komputodo
2017 Oct 6, 11:26pm
komputodo
2017 Oct 6, 11:26pm
jazz_music says
What i find ludicrous is that tv shows tell us that the preferred drink of modern women now is single malt scotch.
One major difference is in our media. I watch B&W episodes from time to time and the way they intertwine tobacco and alcohol use into every single fucking scene is ludicrous by today's standards.
What i find ludicrous is that tv shows tell us that the preferred drink of modern women now is single malt scotch.
14
RWSGFY
2017 Oct 7, 11:38am
RWSGFY
2017 Oct 7, 11:38am
me123 says
And? They knock on his door and ask why he has 20 guns and he tells them he likes to "collect them all". What's the next move would be? Follow him everywhere 24x7?
If there were a central registry of gun sales someone buying so many guns and so much ammo so quickly could have raised a flag to go question the guy and check him out.
And? They knock on his door and ask why he has 20 guns and he tells them he likes to "collect them all". What's the next move would be? Follow him everywhere 24x7?
15
bob2356
2017 Oct 7, 12:17pm
me123 says
What does work mean? You are back to proving a negative. I park my car in the driveway to keep elephants from going on my lawn. No elephants have been on my lawn so I know it works.
There are plenty of countries that way beyond somewhat free that are very safe from gun ownership by citizens. That doesn't mean the citizens don't own guns, it means they are carefully vetted for gun ownership and are held responsible for their guns. I've lived in some and seen it first hand.
Once again, you would be wrong. I do know what the Dems are proposing will absolutely not work, only the clueless think it will.
The bottom line, you can't legislate away "crazy", if you want to live in a somewhat free country, you'll have to take some lumps.
If you want to live in a country safe from gun ownership by citizens, I hear N. Korea is nice this time of the year.
What does work mean? You are back to proving a negative. I park my car in the driveway to keep elephants from going on my lawn. No elephants have been on my lawn so I know it works.
There are plenty of countries that way beyond somewhat free that are very safe from gun ownership by citizens. That doesn't mean the citizens don't own guns, it means they are carefully vetted for gun ownership and are held responsible for their guns. I've lived in some and seen it first hand.
16
bob2356
2017 Oct 7, 12:22pm
KimJongUn says
I'm a lot more interested in day to day criminals than the one off nutcase. But since you asked maybe, maybe not. How exactly do you know for a fact there would not have been any other red flags? Since we are all so into proving negatives here then prove it couldn't have made a difference. Prove that it couldn't have made a difference in any mass shooting in the last 20 years. Time for the cricket chorus.
me123 says
If there were a central registry of gun sales someone buying so many guns and so much ammo so quickly could have raised a flag to go question the guy and check him out.
And? They knock on his door and ask why he has 20 guns and he tells them he likes to "collect them all". What's the next move would be? Follow him everywhere 24x7
I'm a lot more interested in day to day criminals than the one off nutcase. But since you asked maybe, maybe not. How exactly do you know for a fact there would not have been any other red flags? Since we are all so into proving negatives here then prove it couldn't have made a difference. Prove that it couldn't have made a difference in any mass shooting in the last 20 years. Time for the cricket chorus.
Watching the hand wringing, posturing and pondering, round the clock barrage of news on the latest mass shooting, it strikes me that we as a society in this country are "learning to live with it" and doing the same things as industrial facilities but on a much more sinister scale.
We have learned or are quickly learning to accept mass shootings as just another fact of life in America and while the latest event provides a temporary jolt to the mind, it's business as usual for 99.99% of the country until the next event (there will be more and they will be far deadlier) since it's not real anymore, just like our wars. How long was the pause in frivolity on the strip to denounce this type of activity?
The shootings have become a macabre form of entertainment now for the news media and internet pundits of every scope and description lauding the heroes, fermenting conspiracy theories to find a particular group or race at fault if possible, microscopic examination of perpetrator(s) to no lasting resolution and the endless rounds of why did this happen in a search for ratings and audience numbers.
Routine now is “what to do in the event of a mass shooting”, “is our city ready for an event like this”, and other related articles suggesting
this is indeed now a normal part of life here. During tonight’s evening news there was a “promo” for a seminar to given at a local church on “how to stay safe in an active shooter situation”.
No less we have accepted as part of the new normal security breaches that involve our personal information. Regardless of the scope and degree of the security failure it's just another ho-hum, who this time, how many affected, do I have to change my password again and then carry on carrying on.
There is a lack of accountability and responsibility on the behalf of elected officials in this country at all levels that are due to the laissez-faire attitude on the part of the citizens that permits these events to not be addressed fully and acted on.
Save for some photo ops and watered down legislation that would have been just as well not passed but looks good, feels good and makes the citizens think there is a genuine concern little of consequence will come out of this. It does however allow those in control of our laws and legislation to pass the red face test and boast they “took action” no matter how feeble that may be.
Appearing once again "I would be willing to forgo some freedoms to become more safe" comments on one hand and on the other a lack of any meaningful response from our country's leaders to acknowledge and take action to roll back some of the military style weaponry and corporate ineptitude that has made its way into the accepted mainstream way of daily life in this country.
Not to be overlooked is the access to and availability of mental health services to the population without having a “stigma” automatically attached to anyone seeking such help.
The rot and decay from within may or not be beyond the point of repair but left untreated now will result in a more costly repair when and if the citizenry decides enough is enough and they can not or will not "live with it" any longer.
Yet the single most important question in all of this has so far been overlooked by the media and everyone else.
Who do we sue?
#MassShootings #SecurityHacks #LearningToLiveWithIt