Donald Trump is about to decertify Iran treaty
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Donald Trump is about to decertify Iran treaty

By anonymous following x   2017 Oct 6, 7:49am 1,722 views   57 comments   watch   quote     share    


The short of this is that Iran has been complying with a very successful economic treaty negotiated under the Obama administration and lied about by every Republican in America. I dare say there isn't a single Republican on this board who doesn't have a lying cartoon version of this treaty and its results in his brain. Same with Congress. The practical effects of this success was that Iran was opened up to inspections, has ceased work on nuclear weapons, and allowed more liberal communications with the rest of the world which has the potential to slowly secularize Iran. One diplomat accurately described this as the United States giving up nothing and gaining everything.

So basically Donald Trump jabbed an ice pick up his ass and it hurt so he decided to decertify the treaty meaning although Iran has been complying with the terms, he's going to claim they aren't complying with the terms which will send this back to congress to do another Obamacare-style repeal failure. He's claiming some steaming bullshit that "Iran isn't complying with the spirit of the treaty" which is of course another way of saying "I'm never going to have to give you any reasons so fuck you".

The adults in Europe have already unanimously decided to continue trade with Iran and are actually encouraging their capitalists to do business there. They will continue to allow Western imports into Iran and of course Russia has complete free trade since they consider Iran an ally. So basically it's another example of Donald Trump and the Republican party hurting this country, hurting it's people, and making the world a more dangerous place because politics and nothing else.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/06/politics/president-donald-trump-iran-nuclear-congress/index.html
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2017/10/06/537644/EU-Iran-JCPOA-US-decertification-transatlantic-divide


#politics

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19   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 13, 6:36pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

iwog says
Donald Trump is about to decertify Iran treaty


Good. The deal with Iran was just another can Obama kicked down the road.
Iran still maintains it's nuclear program. I'm sorry but religious wackos can never ever be trusted with nuclear weapons. They will cheat, they will carry on with their nuclear development, and they will suddenly spring it on us when their nukes are ready. We need a permanent solution. No nuclear program. No nuclear scientists. No capability to develop nukes. No nothing.
20   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 13, 6:41pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

Strategist says
Good. The deal with Iran was just another can Obama kicked down the road.


Nope it's not and you're totally ignorant of what the treaty accomplishes.

Strategist says
Iran still maintains it's nuclear program.


Yup for nuclear power. They gave up their enrichment technology and vastly reduced their uranium stockpile. Of course you don't know this because you don't care what is real.

Strategist says
I'm sorry but religious wackos can never ever be trusted with nuclear weapons.


What about your religious wacko vice president? Better hope Trump completes his 4 years.


Strategist says
They will cheat,


They can't cheat. International inspectors can poke their nose anywhere in the country and they have. It's written into the treaty. Prohibiting an inspector from investigating a facility is grounds for a breech and to date, Iran has complied with these terms.

You're proving you know absolutely nothing about this issue which is par for everyone who is a Republican.
21   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 13, 6:56pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says
Strategist says
Iran still maintains it's nuclear program.


Yup for nuclear power.

You really believe a country with that much oil went through all that pain of sanctions and cost for electricity? Really?
Solar and wind are now cheaper and getting even more cheaper by the day. Their nuclear program is obviously for weapons and nothing else.

iwog says
Strategist says
They will cheat,


They can't cheat. International inspectors can poke their nose anywhere in the country and they have. It's written into the treaty. Prohibiting an inspector from investigating a facility is grounds for a breech and to date, Iran has complied with these terms.

That's what they said about N Korea. Some of us have learnt from our mistakes.
And our inspectors don't have full access to their development sites.
22   Fucking White Male   ignore (2)   2017 Oct 13, 6:59pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says
Strategist says
Good. The deal with Iran was just another can Obama kicked down the road.


Nope it's not and you're totally ignorant of what the treaty accomplishes.

Strategist says
Iran still maintains it's nuclear program.


Yup for nuclear power. They gave up their enrichment technology and vastly reduced their uranium stockpile. Of course you don't know this because you don't care what is real.

Strategist says
I'm sorry but religious wackos can never ever be trusted with nuclear weapons.


What about your religious wacko vice president? Better hope Trump completes his 4 years.


Strategist says
They will cheat,

I never took IWOG for stupid but I may have to rethink that. Trusting the Iranians is way up there on the stupid chart.
23   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 13, 7:01pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

Strategist says
Their nuclear program is obviously for weapons and nothing else.


This is just dripping with ignorance and stupidity. You CANNOT create a nuclear weapon with the grade of fissionable material currently allowed inside of Iran. In your mind you're thinking "It's a reactor! They can make nukes! Details don't matter!".

Welp you're dead wrong and too lazy to research why you're dead wrong. Iran cannot make weapons grade plutonium. They lack the facilities and they are constantly subject to inspections. Donald Trump is going to try to force Iran to eject the inspectors and turn the lights out on their nuclear program and you like it.

Strategist says
That's what they said about N Korea. Some of us have learnt from our mistakes.


Inspectors didn't have free roam all over North Korea. North Korea was never an open country.

Strategist says
And our inspectors don't have full access to their development sites.


Now you're just making up shit and lying. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/sep/08/politifact-sheet-6-things-know-about-iran-nuclear-/
Also Iran has already turned over 97% of it's enriched uranium stockpile to Russia. They gave it up. You and the fucking mindless brain damaged idiots you support consider this "nothing".
24   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 13, 7:07pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says
Strategist says
Their nuclear program is obviously for weapons and nothing else.


This is just dripping with ignorance and stupidity. You CANNOT create a nuclear weapon with the grade of fissionable material currently allowed inside of Iran. In your mind you're thinking "It's a reactor! They can make nukes! Details don't matter!".

Welp you're dead wrong and too lazy to research why you're dead wrong. Iran cannot make weapons grade plutonium. They lack the facilities and they are constantly subject to inspections. Donald Trump is going to try to force Iran to eject the inspectors and turn the lights out on their nuclear program and you like it.


Then why don't they just give up their nuclear program entirely? If it's electricity they want solar and wind is cheaper. Don't they have sun in their deserts?
25   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 13, 7:10pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

Republicans believe in a lot of bullshit. They suck the sewage down like beers at an all-you-can-drink Octoberfest.

However attacking the Iran deal is simply inconceivable. You have no grounds to do so! Iran has been abiding by some incredibly strict terms that have by any measure made the world much MUCH safer. The West has unprecedented access to the entire country, has full time monitoring of existing reactors and enrichment facilities, and a 24 day blanket inspection condition that allows us anywhere in the country with notice. (for those of you who think Iran can hide a reactor in 24 days, go fuck yourself for your idiocy)

Iran is trying to join the West. An overwhelming number of Iranians respect and admire the West and Western ideals. If Donald Trump and the violently stupid Republican congress are successful in killing this treaty, you will have actual blood on your hands. This is every bit as stupid as supporting the Iraq war. You have no excuses.
26   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 13, 7:14pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

Strategist says
Then why don't they just give up their nuclear program entirely? If it's electricity they want solar and wind is cheaper. Don't they have sun in their deserts?


Solar and wind is not cheaper. You're judging nuclear energy by American standards. The entire world left us in the dust and is now at least 40 years more advanced than the United States. France generates 75% of its electricity needs through nuclear power and exporting cheap electricity outside its borders earns that country $3 billion per year.

Everything you think you know about this issue is wrong.
27   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 13, 7:33pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says

Solar and wind is not cheaper. You're judging nuclear energy by American standards. The entire world left us in the dust and is now at least 40 years more advanced than the United States. France generates 75% of its electricity needs through nuclear power and exporting cheap electricity outside its borders earns that country $3 billion per year.


That was all in the past. Did you know France is going all out for solar and wind? They will be replacing nuclear power plants with renewable just like Germany.
Costs for solar energy have fallen dramatically, and continue to do so. Nothing beats free fuel through solar panels, a technology, the price of which falls like the cell phone.
28   Satoshi_Nakamoto   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 13, 9:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

BayAreaObserver says
Forget Diplomacy With North Korea if Trump Decertifies the Iran Deal.


Dude, forget diplomacy with NK period. What can US offer in exchange for Kim giving up his nukes? Security assurances? Ask Ukraine how these worked out for them.
29   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 13, 10:40pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says

Then why don't they just give up their nuclear program entirely? If it's electricity they want solar and wind is cheaper.


Maybe if we stopped sanctioning them so they could buy solar and wind they might. You somehow weren't aware the us has had sanctions on Iran for years that cut them out of the global banking system? You can't import pv panels if you can't pay for them.

Strategist says
Did you know France is going all out for solar and wind? They will be replacing nuclear power plants with renewable just like Germany.


More nonsense. France will be replacing reactors that reach the end of their life, That is 17 of 58 in the next 10 years in the current plan. Not even close to going all out.
30   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 14, 4:07am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

Strategist says
That was all in the past. Did you know France is going all out for solar and wind? They will be replacing nuclear power plants with renewable just like Germany.
Costs for solar energy have fallen dramatically, and continue to do so. Nothing beats free fuel through solar panels, a technology, the price of which falls like the cell phone.


Every time you are wrong, you just double down on being wrong and never learn a thing.

You could have used this as an opportunity to learn about nuclear power in Europe but you wont.
31   Blurtman   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 14, 7:12am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

We toppled Muhammad Mossadegh with fake Facebook stories. Of course the Iranians are pissed at us.
32   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 14, 9:02am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

bob2356 says
Strategist says

Then why don't they just give up their nuclear program entirely? If it's electricity they want solar and wind is cheaper.


Maybe if we stopped sanctioning them so they could buy solar and wind they might. You somehow weren't aware the us has had sanctions on Iran for years that cut them out of the global banking system? You can't import pv panels if you can't pay for them.


All they have to do is give up their nuclear program, and all the problems get solved. It's as simple as that. So tell me, why are they so adamant to keep their nuclear program going? What is their real motivation?
33   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 14, 11:25am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says
All they have to do is give up their nuclear program, and all the problems get solved. It's as simple as that. So tell me, why are they so adamant to keep their nuclear program going? What is their real motivation?


Gosh I don't know, national sovereignty? Leaders not wanting to appear to be bullied by citizens? Technological advancement? France is earning $3 billion a year selling nuclear powered electricity, maybe they want to export it?
34   BorderPatrol   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 14, 1:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

this is not about nuclear weapon but about money again.
35   TwoScoopsMcGee   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 14, 2:43pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Well, Israel and Saudi Arabia (and probably the other Big Clinton Donor Gulf States) seem very happy with Trump.







The Euroweenies, who never refused a Middle Eastern Tyranny an Exocet, Mirage, or any dual-use NBC technology, are miffed. Russia isn't happy, either.

But wait, if Russia is for the deal, yet Trump failed to certify it.. Nah, Putin is still backing Trump.
36   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 14, 3:01pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Well, as long as Saudi approves... Didn't think I'd see the day when McGee was hailing a deal as good because Saudi approves...
37   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 14, 3:32pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says
Strategist says
All they have to do is give up their nuclear program, and all the problems get solved. It's as simple as that. So tell me, why are they so adamant to keep their nuclear program going? What is their real motivation?


Gosh I don't know, national sovereignty? Leaders not wanting to appear to be bullied by citizens? Technological advancement? France is earning $3 billion a year selling nuclear powered electricity, maybe they want to export it?


WTF. So let me get this straight. Here you have Iran, a country that has promised to destroy Israel and are developing the means to do so, yet you believe they are developing nukes because they just want high cost electricity to sell at a loss to it's neighbors.
Someone wake me up, I'm having a nightmare.
38   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 14, 3:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

Strategist says
WTF. So let me get this straight. Here you have Iran, a country that has promised to destroy Israel and are developing the means to do so, yet you believe they are developing nukes because they just want high cost electricity to sell at a loss to it's neighbors.
Someone wake me up, I'm having a nightmare.


They aren't developing nuclear weapons. We know this because they handed over 97% of their entire enriched uranium stockpile and they are allowing inspections anywhere we want.

You have such a simple mind that all you can do is this math "NUKEULAR = BOMBS lets do sanctions again!!!!!!!!"

Fuck stupidity. I am so done with this world.
39   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 14, 4:26pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

So it looks like the rest of the 1st world is going to take a stand and tell Donald Trump to fuck himself.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/14/world/iran-trump-world-reaction/index.html

Even the stupidest Trump supporter must comprehend that this means there will be no sanctions from the EU, Russia, or anywhere else thus there will be no effective sanctions from the USA either.

Therefore I would like to ask yet another rhetorical question. (only rhetorical because Republicans are fucking cowards and wont answer it) WHAT IS DONALD TRUMP ACCOMPLISHING HERE?????????????????????????????????????????????? If the EU and everyone else is going to leave investment and trade open, how is Iran going to suffer? How do they not win under any scenario?? Gloat if congress capitulates or uses this as a propaganda tool for USA hatred if they don't?

This is a massive failure by the Trump administration. Biggest one yet.

I'll wait while y'all figure out the answer.
40   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 14, 4:34pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

As always, Donald Trump is in direct contradiction with his own administration.

GEN. JOSEPH DUNFORD: Iran is not in material breach of the agreement, and I do believe the agreement to date has delayed the development of a nuclear capability by Iran.
SEC. REX TILLERSON: My view on the nuclear deal is they are in technical compliance of the nuclear arrangement.
SEC. JAMES MATTIS: Yes, senator, I do. (when asked if Iran is in compliance)
41   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 14, 6:10pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says
Therefore I would like to ask yet another rhetorical question. (only rhetorical because Republicans are fucking cowards and wont answer it) WHAT IS DONALD TRUMP ACCOMPLISHING HERE?????????????????????????????????????????????? If the EU and everyone else is going to leave investment and trade open, how is Iran going to suffer? How do they not win under any scenario?? Gloat if congress capitulates or uses this as a propaganda tool for USA hatred if they don't?

This is a massive failure by the Trump administration. Biggest one yet.

I'll wait while y'all figure out the answer.


Iran is upset like hell. It seems obvious Iran is gonna get hurt.
Israel is happy as hell. It seems obvious Israel will benefit.
Us individuals may not know exactly who gets hurt and how, but the parties involved sure do.
42   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 14, 6:14pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says

GEN. JOSEPH DUNFORD: Iran is not in material breach of the agreement, and I do believe the agreement to date has delayed the development of a nuclear capability by Iran.


So they haven't given up their nuclear program. Now you realize Obama just kicked the can down the street? Now Trump has to clean up another mess Obama left behind.
43   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 14, 7:37pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

Strategist says
Iran is upset like hell. It seems obvious Iran is gonna get hurt.


Yup and in your childish mind you think this is a good thing.

Strategist says
Israel is happy as hell. It seems obvious Israel will benefit.


But you can't describe how because it might kill you. Let me answer for you then. Israel is happy because they are always happy whenever our Middle East policy hurts Islam. They were happy about the bloody atrocity you were responsible for in Iraq also.

Strategist says
So they haven't given up their nuclear program. Now you realize Obama just kicked the can down the street? Now Trump has to clean up another mess Obama left behind.


Are you even going to try to answer my question?

There is no mess. The treaty with Iraq was a massive success. Donald Trump is trying to fuck it to death. So are you and you can't even say why.
45   Roidy   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 14, 8:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

Gentle Reader,

President Pouty-Poo is just going to aggravate the fuck out of me for years. Isn't he?

Shithead just doesn't like ANYTHING anyone has accomplished or constructed if Pouty-Poo didn't think of it or do it Hisself.

The Iran nuclear deal is a start toward getting things to as normal as it will get for a while. It will take a long time to make-up with the Iranians. We started it in 1953 when we engineered a coup that overthrew Mosaddegh (who was democratically elected by the way.) We then installed the Shah along with his secret police, the Savak. Furthermore, we encouraged that fuckstick Saddam Hussein to start a war with Iran in the 1980s that killed better than 1,000,000 people on both sides.

This will take some time to heal. Yes, Iran also did a lot of shit. We'll have to take time and patience.

Pouty-Poo's strong suit is of course taking his time and practicing patience. Fucking moron.

Regards,
Roidy
46   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 15, 7:12am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

I still want an answer to my question.

What does this action by Donald Trump make better and how?
47   Roidy   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 15, 7:33am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says
I still want an answer to my question.

What does this action by Donald Trump make better and how?


Gentle Reader,

Errr. Nothing?

Regards,
Roidy
48   BlueSardine   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 15, 8:10am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/13/opinion/trump-bad-iran-deal.html
That about sums it up, right from the mouth of your mothership...

iwog says
I still want an answer to my question.

What does this action by Donald Trump make better and how?
49   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 15, 9:10am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

BlueSardine says
That about sums it up, right from the mouth of your mothership...


There isn't a single word in that entire article that answers my question.

Even if you accept the writer's premise that it's a bad deal, how is Trump not capitulating the world into a worse deal? Furthermore the writer is assuming that Trump will "expand and extend the agreement" which he wont because he's a fucking idiot and also because there isn't a single country in the entire world besides ours that is going to let this treaty go void.

Most of the trade between Tehran and the West isn't through the United States anyway. It's through Europe and Russia so having us pull out is laughable. It weakens our own ties with our allies, it weakens our position in the region, and ultimately it strengthens Russia. None of this is talked about in your silly Op Ed.
50   TwoScoopsMcGee   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 15, 1:29pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

joeyjojojunior says
Well, as long as Saudi approves... Didn't think I'd see the day when McGee was hailing a deal as good because Saudi approves...


Big things are happening with Saudi: They're reigning in the Wahabi Inspired Terror Bigly, and they just let women drive. The kerfluffle between Qatar and the rest of the Gulf States/Saudi Arabia over Fundy Terror Sponsorship was a major big deal. In fact, the King just had a Prince arrested for berating Women Drivers just after it was allowed... a version of "Breaching the Peace". Remember, both the King is new and the US POTUS are new. I think the Young King is of the bent that the Wahabi Cleric-Royal House alliance needs to be revamped so that there is more legitimacy arising from the common population, which is less strict and wants more say.

I expect we're going to see terror attacks by Wahabi Fundies in Saudi Arabia, which will signal confirmation that the new King is reforming and, like our own Swamp (our Wahabis is the CoC and Neocon-Neolib Policy wonks) they will not take their loss of power laying down.

Trump is yet again kicking the issue back to Congress, while pushing for more concessions on Iran's end. Two of his routine tactics.

Congress' approval ratings are a third to a quarter of Trump's, by the way.

Note that the US has laws about Terror Sponsoring States, and if Europe insists on selling to Iran if this deal is officially nixed, the Eurocompanies that sell a few million to Iran won't be able to sell 20x as much to the USA as they'll be blacklisted under current laws already in place. The Eucoweenies will be putting pressure on Iran to meet at least some of Trump's demands, which revolve around Enrichment and Ballistic Missiles.
51   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 15, 1:58pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

TwoScoopsMcGee says
Big things are happening with Saudi


lol--whatever you say Lips. If Clinton was President why do I think you wouldn't be talking about the "big things" happening...
52   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 15, 2:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Big things are happening with Saudi: They're reigning in the Wahabi Inspired Terror Bigly, and they just let women drive.


That young King Sultan whatever seems to be our pawn. Just what the doctor ordered.
Long Live the Puppet King.
53   BayAreaObserver   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 16, 3:57pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Trump’s Iran Strategy Needs a Dose of Historical Reality. Trying to sideline Iran ignores over 2,500 years of history.

Americans seem not to understand that for over 2,500 years, Iran (known as Persia until 1935), one way or another, dominated Middle Eastern politics and culture. It has always been a regional hegemon, and sees that as its rightful role. For example, the ancient Persian Achaemenid Empire, from the 6th to 4th centuries BCE, was the world’s first transcontinental empire, spanning three continents (Asia, Africa, and Europe). From the Indus to the Aegean Sea, and from the Jaxartes to the Nile, the Persians ruled supreme.

The Achaemenids built a large naval fleet, maintained a large army, and instituted an effective administration that not only collected taxes and redistributed land among the king and his subjects, but also meted out justice. Among other achievements, the Persians built large cities and roads to facilitate movement.

Despite some setbacks, the Qajars preserved Persia’s independence at the height of Anglo-Russian competition in the 19th century. Persia was one of the very few Muslim majority countries not colonized by any European power.

The Qajar dynasty was followed by the Pahlavi dynasty in 1925. Under the Pahlavi dynasty, Iran aligned itself with the United States during the first three decades of the Cold War to act as a bulwark against Soviet expansion toward the Middle East. When the Ayatollahs led by Khomeini founded an Islamic Republic in 1979, relations with the United States worsened. Ever since that time, Washington has tried to isolate Iran as if it were an irritating little rogue state that, if manhandled correctly, would subside into quiescence.

Given Iran’s history and its self-conception based on that history, this is a key misconception. For over 2,300 years, the Iranians have confronted every major power of every time period — from the Greeks under Alexander the Great to the United States — in the competition for dominance of the Middle East. Despite suffering setbacks and even defeats at times, the Iranians have fought, outlived, and outlasted every single challenger and every single invader, including the Arabs, Genghis Khan, Timur, and even Saddam Hussein. It is hence fair to say that the Persians/Iranians, from Cyrus the Great to Ayatollah Khamenei, have pursued a policy of regional dominance.

Iran’s history and civilization have infused a sense of ineradicable pride and nationalism in its citizens. Today, despite many years and many rounds of sanctions against Iran, the country is more influential and dominant in regional affairs than it was in 1979.

Iran’s current government, like its predecessors from the Achaemenids to the Pahlavis, wants respect and a recognition of its role as a regional player — and it has earned the right to such. Excluding Iran from regional affairs or trying to isolate it is futile, given its history as a regional hegemon. However, it seems that the United States simply cannot grasp how the Iranians see their rightful role in the Middle East. U.S. misperceptions must change if there is to be a future for peace in the Middle East. Iran’s cooperation is absolutely vital to restore stability in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and Yemen.

Trump’s current strategy is focused on “neutralizing the government of Iran’s destabilizing influence and constraining its aggression, particularly its support for terrorism and militants.” The strategy states that Iran remains hostile to Israel, supports terrorism, engages in subversive activities, missile proliferation, and threatens freedom of navigation in the Persian Gulf, among other things. In particular, Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) is accused of “undermining the international system…by force and coercion.” With regards to the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA), or more commonly known as the Iran deal, Trump’s strategy maintains that Iran exploits the JCPOA’s “loopholes.”

Trump and his administration must come to understand that Iran is not going to curb its drive for regional supremacy. At a time when the regime’s capabilities have improved considerably, it has more resources to employ in its pursuit of regional power than ever before.

More: https://thediplomat.com/2017/11/trumps-iran-strategy-needs-a-dose-of-historical-reality/
54   TwoScoopsMcGee   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 16, 4:40pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

joeyjojojunior says
lol--whatever you say Lips. If Clinton was President why do I think you wouldn't be talking about the "big things" happening...


Bumping this in light of the massive reforms happening in Saudi Arabia right now. Including the abdication of the King in favor of the Crown Prince, the most determined reformer in the Royal Family.

Looks like a lot of things we were told "Can't Happen" Can indeed happen, with the right midwifes helping it happen.
55   BlueSardine   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 16, 4:43pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Past Performance Is Not Indicative Of Future Results.
56   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 16, 5:40pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

BayAreaObserver says
Trump’s Iran Strategy Needs a Dose of Historical Reality. Trying to sideline Iran ignores over 2,500 years of history.

Americans seem not to understand that for over 2,500 years, Iran (known as Persia until 1935), one way or another, dominated Middle Eastern politics and culture. It has always been a regional hegemon, and sees that as its rightful role. For example, the ancient Persian Achaemenid Empire, from the 6th to 4th centuries BCE, was the world’s first transcontinental empire, spanning three continents (Asia, Africa, and Europe). From the Indus to the Aegean Sea, and from the Jaxartes to the Nile, the Persians ruled supreme.


We can't make military decisions based on what happened 2,500 years ago. We need to make decisions based on what is happening today. Today, they are developing nukes, and we can't allow that. The Sunnis hate the Shiites like hell. An enemy of an enemy is our friend, which makes the Sunnis our friends. (for now) We get them to slaughter each other as much as possible, and start solving our problems that way.

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