Fires in Santa Rosa and Napa
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Fires in Santa Rosa and Napa

By Patrick following x   2017 Oct 10, 7:12am 1,775 views   45 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/09/santa-rosa-fire-how-a-sudden-firestorm-obliterated-a-city/

If patients could get out of bed on their own, they did, she said. “If not, we grabbed people from their beds and put them in wheelchairs.”

The fire came perilously close to Kaiser Santa Rosa medical center and its huge liquid oxygen and diesel tanks. Firefighters weren’t sure they could stave off the blaze that was engulfing the adjacent mobile home park called “Journey’s End,” she said.


#fire

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1   Tenpoundbass   ignore (6)   2017 Oct 10, 7:54am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

Perhaps they can build affordable housing now.
2   anonymous   ignore (5)   2017 Oct 10, 8:50am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Har! Losers! They want everything done for them!
3   Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 10, 8:54am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Got to the city for work and it reeks of smoke.
5   Ceffer   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 10, 10:30am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Just another wonderful California day! Wake up to sun and coffee on Sunday morning, Monday AM watch the smoking embers of your former home and neighborhood.
6   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 10, 1:05pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Someone either cut the firefighting budget a bit too tight or spent it on firemen pensions.
8   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 10, 2:53pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

I'm too lazy to look it up, but is there some sort of exterior fire suppressant system that could have stopped this in this type of neighborhood? Seems like there would be something you could do. Couldn't be connected with the city's water supply as it would likely cause a massive drop in pressure for a system like that to be effective I suppose. Just feels a bit ridiculous that an entire neighborhood could be burned like this. This is late 1800's Chicago fire type shit. Seems like it shouldn't happen with today's technology.
9   Satoshi_Nakamoto   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 10, 3:06pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

WookieMan says
I'm too lazy to look it up, but is there some sort of exterior fire suppressant system that could have stopped this in this type of neighborhood? Seems like there would be something you could do. Couldn't be connected with the city's water supply as it would likely cause a massive drop in pressure for a system like that to be effective I suppose. Just feels a bit ridiculous that an entire neighborhood could be burned like this. This is late 1800's Chicago fire type shit. Seems like it shouldn't happen with today's technology.


I wonder if stone buildings with metal roofs and metal shutters would've survived this type of event.
10   Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 10, 3:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Heraclitusstudent says


Holy crap. Had no idea it was that bad.
11   Tenpoundbass   ignore (6)   2017 Oct 10, 3:26pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Why does Climate Change hate expensive zip codes so much?
12   RC2006   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 10, 4:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

WookieMan says
I'm too lazy to look it up, but is there some sort of exterior fire suppressant system that could have stopped this in this type of neighborhood? Seems like there would be something you could do. Couldn't be connected with the city's water supply as it would likely cause a massive drop in pressure for a system like that to be effective I suppose. Just feels a bit ridiculous that an entire neighborhood could be burned like this. This is late 1800's Chicago fire type shit. Seems like it shouldn't happen with today's technology.


Was looking for something to protect a cabin years ago, they make spray foams and gels that work pretty well and some can be sprayed up to 48hrs before fire. People that live in housing tracks think that the fire fighter is always going to save the day and that they are immune to this sort of thing. Its amazing that trees are still standing but the houses are burnt to the ground in that photo.
14   BayArea   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 10, 4:25pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Ah, Bay Area housing supply just went down by 2000 homes. Wonder if the homeless will move to the Peninsula?
15   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 10, 4:25pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

rpanic01 says
Was looking for something to protect a cabin years ago, they make spray foams and gels that work pretty well and some can be sprayed up to 48hrs before fire.

I felt like I had read something about a product like that. I don't need it where I am, but it sounds familiar. I'm definitely a proponent of less government involvement in things, but it seems like there could be something added to the building code (at least with new construction or full rehabs). It just seems like 100's of homes being burned down in 2017 is rather insane. I get a rural cabin, but an entire neighborhood like this?

I'd move to California in a second for the climate, but you can keep the fucking fires and earthquakes (earthquakes not so much, but you're due and you know it).
16   BayArea   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 10, 7:17pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Why so many fires at the same time across the state? Something like 10 major fires burning right now.
17   Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 10, 7:21pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

This is another good reason to support my plan to create a city with good jobs up at Klamath:

https://patrick.net/post/1310664?offset=0#comment-1446089
No fires there.
18   Sniper   ignore (10)   2017 Oct 10, 7:54pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

KimJongUn says
I wonder if stone buildings with metal roofs and metal shutters would've survived this type of event.


Thinking the same thing. Brick structures with clay tile roofs.
19   Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 10, 8:11pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

They need to be earthquake-proof as well. So maybe not brick and tile.
20   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 10, 8:19pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Patrick says
They need to be earthquake-proof as well. So maybe not brick and tile.

Boom! And there's the god damn California problem. Beautiful weather, but too much extracurricular mother nature bull shit. I'll take a little winter and the tiny, tiny risk of a tornado where I'm at. I'm over exaggerating of course, but still, an entire neighborhood burned down. That just shouldn't happen today.
21   curious2   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 11, 3:57am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

BayArea says
Why so many fires at the same time across the state?


A recent heat wave broke records, and the state had recently a 5-year drought that left a lot of dead vegetation. Many have blamed global warming.

Patrick says
They need to be earthquake-proof as well. So maybe not brick and tile.


Reinforced concrete.

KimJongUn says
I wonder if stone buildings with metal roofs and metal shutters would've survived this type of event.


Construction materials can make a huge difference. Use metal soffits instead of wood. Use non-flammable roof material (e.g. tile or anything else that doesn't burn). Do not have wooden perimeter fences connecting to exterior walls. Do not have shrubbery near exterior walls.

You can design and build for anything. Consider a heat pump moving water from below ground through tubes in walls and roof, to prevent the house becoming an oven.
22   RC2006   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 11, 9:22am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

The answer to how to build in fire zones is simple, build hobbit homes.

http://www.viralnovelty.net/company-builds-pre-fab-hobbit-houses-3-days-can-actually-live/
24   NoYes   ignore (2)   2017 Oct 11, 7:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

New cheap burned out land for Democratic voting homeless encampments .... (not close to his urban pad) and use the billion from trump to finish the bullet train to nowhere ...use whats left for more Trump Bashing ads.....at the same time punish hard all those brown mocking climate deniers....where is your priorities anyway? Are you a true leftist or not ....stand up to be counted - but not for the USA flag.
25   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Oct 12, 8:08am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

Patrick says
Fires in Santa Rosa and Napa


The fires are yet another effect of climate change. Yes, all the trolls will say that fires happened before climate change. And violence happened before Islamic terrorism, but terrorism does make the world a more violent place. Climate change made the fires much, much worse.

Wired: The Napa Fire Is a Perfectly Normal Apocalypse
Climate change makes wet seasons wetter and hot seasons hotter—which builds fuel. “Based on analysis using climate model projections, the frequency of Santa Ana events is uncertain,” Jin says. “But all the models agree that the intensity of Santa Ana events is going to be much stronger.”

Models say the same thing about sea level rise and hurricanes. A continent away from the fires in California, cities along the Gulf of Mexico and in the Caribbean have been battered by tropical cyclones, one after the other. This year, ocean water heated by a warming climate, unusually wet weather, and a lack of the vertical wind shear that can tame a big storm combined to produce an anomalous season. It has already been a fire season and a hurricane season that are, as researchers say, consistent with models of a changing climate.


Los Angeles Times: The climate-change fire alarm from Northern California
Big deadly fires are nothing new to California, particularly during fire season when the Santa Ana or Diablo winds blow hot and dry, making tinder out of trees and bushes that have been baking all summer long.

But the firestorm now raging through Northern California isn’t the typical wildfire. For one thing, it’s not just one fire but close to two dozen. For another, these fires are not only threatening hard-to-reach rural or mountains area, but they also have torn through suburban neighborhoods.

This is not just bad luck. Coming on the heels of other large-scale natural disasters — Houston inundated by a slow-moving tropical storm, swaths of Florida and the Caribbean ripped to shreds by a monster hurricane, much of Puerto Rico leveled by an equally powerful hurricane, a handful of Western states swept by massive fires that burned up millions of acres — one can’t help but see a disturbing pattern emerge. Those superstorms that scientists warned would result from climate change? They are here. The day of reckoning isn’t in the future. It is now.

All of those factors are exacerbated by the warming world. Hotter summers yield more fuel for fires and stronger winds to fan the flames. And this summer was California’s hottest on record, a milestone dramatically illustrated when San Francisco hit 106 degrees on Sept. 1 during a statewide heat wave.

Similarly, scientists say climate change doesn’t cause hurricanes, but it can make them bigger and more destructive. Higher air temperatures mean more evaporation and heavier rains outside of drought zones, and warmer seas intensify the size and fury of the storms themselves. It’s a double whammy that has contributed to an unusually severe hurricane season this year.


So what's the cost of climate change in Santa Rosa for this year? Well, there are Looters and price gougers demonstrating that climate change both increases violent crime and increases the costs of general goods. But the larger cost is estimated at $65 billion in residential property alone. That's a mighty big tab for a single consequence of climate change, especially since that tab is only one of many, many tabs that are going to come in.

In the not-so-distant future, climate change will cost America alone over $1 trillion per year every year. That's about $6666 per tax payer per year. More so if you earn more. And those are just direct costs that don't include the lost of economic productivity, which could be the much larger than $1 trillion per year. So tell me again how letting pollution go uncheck saves you money.

To put this in perspective, the direct costs to the U.S. alone will easily be over 5% of our GDP. The indirect costs may be much higher. Climate change is an economy killer. Just because dumb asses don't record costs properly on ledgers doesn't make those real-world costs disappear.

#climateChange
26   Satoshi_Nakamoto   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 12, 8:48am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Patrick says
They need to be earthquake-proof as well. So maybe not brick and tile.


Concrete monolith then.
27   Ceffer   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 12, 9:23am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

It is a scientific fact that worsening menstrual periods are caused by global warming. In cold weather, there are no SJWs or IHLs.
28   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Oct 12, 9:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

Ceffer says
In cold weather, there are no SJWs or IHLs.


You've obviously never been to Boston.
29   BayArea   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 13, 12:04am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Is this arson or what?

How do you explain so many fires so far apart?


30   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 13, 8:27am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

BayArea says
Is this arson or what?

How do you explain so many fires so far apart?

A little law and order intro music here.....

I don't think this is what you're implying. But it would be a good narrative. The fire department or whatever resources that would be in charge of putting these out is intentionally setting the fires. What's the end goal you ask? More resourced earmarked to put these fires out. More resources come flooding in and then over the years there are fewer and fewer fires are occurring. Yet the increase in funds allowed those at the top to pump up their salaries and hire their buddies. And without a depression, good luck politically reducing 1st responder's money. It's a non-starter.

Tin foil hat stuff, but would probably be a pretty good episode.
31   Ceffer   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 13, 10:22am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Dan8267 says
Ceffer says
In cold weather, there are no SJWs or IHLs.


You've obviously never been to Boston.

Well, one set of assertion fallacies deserves another.
32   joshuatrio   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 14, 8:41am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Took this shot leaving SFO yesterday. This is normally a crystal clear view of the city, but the air pollution from the fires is really bad. And no, that's not the morning fog. That was taken around 2pm.

33   joshuatrio   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 14, 8:42am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Other fires that I caught from the air.
34   BlueSardine   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 14, 8:57am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

The economy will reap the benefit of 65 billion worth of new housing construction, not to mention commercial rebuilding and unemployment dropping due to massive reconstruction effort.

Dan8267 says
But the larger cost is estimated at $65 billion in residential property alone.
Dan8267 says
Climate change is an economy killer.
35   BlueSardine   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 14, 9:03am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Like the fundamentalists and the Rapture, Climate change promoters are actively working to make their predictions, and the accompanying climate change cash cow, come true.

BayArea says
Is this arson or what?

How do you explain so many fires so far apart?
36   Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 14, 10:11am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      



I took this near Chico yesterday. Blurry bc from a moving bus, just a big burnt area.
37   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 14, 10:42am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

BlueSardine says
The economy will reap the benefit of 65 billion worth of new housing construction, not to mention commercial rebuilding and unemployment dropping due to massive reconstruction effort.

Dan8267 says
But the larger cost is estimated at $65 billion in residential property alone.
Dan8267 says
Climate change is an economy killer.

Correct. I bet the insurance companies hate it, but if these events are indeed from global warming, they're very likely to have a positive impact on GDP. Three hurricanes, two hit US states and two ravaged multiple US territories. Massive property loss from fires in the West. 2017 Q4 with the holidays and all this rebuilding could be a big number.
38   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Oct 14, 5:09pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

WookieMan says
but if these events are indeed from global warming, they're very likely to have a positive impact on GDP. Three hurricanes, two hit US states and two ravaged multiple US territories. Massive property loss from fires in the West. 2017 Q4 with the holidays and all this rebuilding could be a big number.


So if I break the windows in everyone's houses, the GDP goes up?


Replacing destroyed goods does not increase the wealth of a society. It does not even maintain the wealth of the society because of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. No, breaking a window and replacing it, burning a house and building a new one, getting cancer and curing it results in a net loss of wealth to society.

If such things actually increased wealth as Keynesians believe, then ANTIFA would be heroes. Just let those thugs burn down entire cities and the good times will roll. Why does common sense never get applied to economics. It's not magic. It's arithmetic.
39   BlueSardine   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 14, 6:02pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Cities are borne, and cities die.
People are borne, and people die.
Industries are borne, and industries die.
Homes are built, and homes are eventually destroyed.
It's all the cycle of existence...

WookieMan says
Correct. I bet the insurance companies hate it, but if these events are indeed from global warming, they're very likely to have a positive impact on GDP.
40   BlueSardine   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 14, 6:07pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

If the goods being replaced are sold at a higher profit margin ( which they typically are ) then the destroyed goods, wealth increases.
If the goods being replaced are more technologically advanced ( which they typically are ) then the destroyed goods, efficiency, and indirectly, wealth, increases.
If the goods being replaced require hiring more people ( which they typically do ) then the wealth of society increases with the larger tax base.
There's three scenarios I came up with in 34 seconds that destroy your entire statement.
Care to rescind?
Dan8267 says
Replacing destroyed goods does not increase the wealth of a society.

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