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A zillionaire's solution

By joeyjojojunior following x   2017 Oct 11, 6:47am 3,505 views   78 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/11/republican-tax-cut-for-rich-economy-215696
"The Republican tax plan is a scam—a massive and destructive financial giveaway masquerading as pro-growth tax reform. Which is why our first response must be to demand not one penny of tax cuts for big corporations and rich guys like me. In fact, if I were Benevolent Dictator, I would substantially raise taxes on myself and my wealthy friends. Why? It is the only way to sustainably grow the economy, boost productivity, increase business opportunities and create more and better jobs."

Someone who gets it. This guy wants to help the middle class. Trump just wants to help himself and his family. Period.

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1   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (32)   2017 Oct 11, 7:37am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Trumpcunt has no balls.

If you want to murder working-class people, shoot them in the face, exactly as the Founding Fathers instructed.
2   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 11, 7:38am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote        

joeyjojojunior says
Second, who is this guy? "Nick Hanauer is a Seattle-based entrepreneur."


Google is your friend, CIC. Learn to use it.
3   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (4)   2017 Oct 11, 7:46am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Only a leftist could describe a tax CUT as a financial giveaway.

Def of Cut - reduce the amount or quantity of.
4   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 11, 8:05am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Fucking White Male says
Only a leftist could describe a tax CUT as a financial giveaway.

Def of Cut - reduce the amount or quantity of.


When you have to borrow to give it away, what would you call it?
5   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 11, 8:11am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

joeyjojojunior says


When you have to borrow to give it away, what would you call it?


Responsible fiscal policy if you are republican
6   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Oct 11, 8:39am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote        

bob2356 says
joeyjojojunior says


When you have to borrow to give it away, what would you call it?


Responsible fiscal policy if you are republican


Modern day Conservatives. It seems they’re all distracted watching gay and trans porn 24/7, because that’s all they ever really talk about. The party of self loathing
7   Hassan_Rouhani   ignore (3)   2017 Oct 11, 9:37am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Meantime in Europe: Netherlands has dropped business tax from 25% to 21%, eliminated 15% dividend tax and reduced number of individual tax brackets to only two.
8   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 11, 10:36am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

KimJongUn says
Meantime in Europe: Netherlands has dropped business tax from 25% to 21%, eliminated 15% dividend tax and reduced number of individual tax brackets to only two.


So you are advocating simplifying the US tax system and adding the Netherlands style 21% VAT tax?
9   Hassan_Rouhani   ignore (3)   2017 Oct 11, 10:40am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
KimJongUn says
Meantime in Europe: Netherlands has dropped business tax from 25% to 21%, eliminated 15% dividend tax and reduced number of individual tax brackets to only two.


So you are advocating simplifying the US tax system and adding the Netherlands style 21% VAT tax?


Where? All I'm saying that apparently the reduction of corporate tax and number of brackets has some value to other than "trumpkins and eeeevil republicans" and not as useless and meaningless like that "multizillionaire guy" seems to suggest.
10   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 11, 10:59am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

KimJongUn says
Where? All I'm saying that apparently the reduction of corporate tax and number of brackets has some value to other than "trumpkins and eeeevil republicans" and not as useless and meaningless like that "multizillionaire guy" seems to suggest.


It MAY have value if it's done along with other coordinated moves as well.
11   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 11, 11:11am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

KimJongUn says

Where? All I'm saying that apparently the reduction of corporate tax and number of brackets has some value to other than "trumpkins and eeeevil republicans" like that "multizillionaire guy" seems to suggest.


You need to go read what is being done and why. The tax systems aren't comparable in execution or intent so the changes aren't comparable.

Netherlands didn't reduce the corporate tax rate, they changed the brackets so the lower bracket is raised. The rates are the same, just the brackets changed. Corporate taxation rules in europe are very different than the US. The effects of changes aren't the same. It's certainly nothing like cutting the rate from 39% to 15% and letting everyone with high salaries move their income to pass through llc's at a low tax rate.

The dividend tax didn't get eliminated, they changed some of the rules on withholding of dividend tax to make the rules more comparable between different types of entities. .

https://www.taxand.com/our-thinking/news/corporate-income-tax-reductions-announced-2017-dutch-tax-plan/
12   Hassan_Rouhani   ignore (3)   2017 Oct 11, 11:38am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

joeyjojojunior says
KimJongUn says
Where? All I'm saying that apparently the reduction of corporate tax and number of brackets has some value to other than "trumpkins and eeeevil republicans" and not as useless and meaningless like that "multizillionaire guy" seems to suggest.


It MAY have value if it's done along with other coordinated moves as well.


Right. But for some reason it's just rejected outright. I wonder what that reason is...
13   Hassan_Rouhani   ignore (3)   2017 Oct 11, 11:39am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
The tax systems aren't comparable in execution or intent so the changes aren't comparable.


I know. All I'm saying that when your side rejects some tax moves absolutely w/o condition it makes you look not serious.
14   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 11, 11:54am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

KimJongUn says

Right. But for some reason it's just rejected outright. I wonder what that reason is...


Because the only proposals that Republicans will back are designed to reward the wealthy. It's never done correctly to help jobs.
15   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 11, 2:14pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

KimJongUn says
I know. All I'm saying that when your side rejects some tax moves absolutely w/o condition it makes you look not serious.


Not if the proposals are all ridiculous like Trump's tax plan.
16   Goran_K   ignore (2)   2017 Oct 11, 2:26pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote        

KimJongUn says
Meantime in Europe: Netherlands has dropped business tax from 25% to 21%, eliminated 15% dividend tax and reduced number of individual tax brackets to only two.


Also Sweden and Iceland have quietly put the single payer plans on the shelf indefinitely.
17   Hassan_Rouhani   ignore (3)   2017 Oct 11, 3:11pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

joeyjojojunior says
KimJongUn says

Right. But for some reason it's just rejected outright. I wonder what that reason is...


Because the only proposals that Republicans will back are designed to reward the wealthy. It's never done correctly to help jobs.


Yawn. Another shallow slogan mindlessly shout out. Booooooring.
18   Hassan_Rouhani   ignore (3)   2017 Oct 11, 3:14pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

joeyjojojunior says
KimJongUn says
I know. All I'm saying that when your side rejects some tax moves absolutely w/o condition it makes you look not serious.


Not if the proposals are all ridiculous like Trump's tax plan.


Yawn agan.
19   Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 11, 4:43pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

joeyjojojunior says
When you have to borrow to give it away, what would you call it?


A democrat strategy that never worked. Borrow, and give it away to the able bodied welfare queens.
20   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 11, 6:16pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Goran_K says


You're right, I actually meant Switzerland. They shelved it after figuring out they couldn't pay for it.


The swiss never had single payer. Where did you get that? At the very least you could tell creditable lies.

Lets check this out. The Swiss have compulsory insurance, medicare style price controls, old and young pay the same premiums, pre existing must be covered and not charged extra, the government defines the benefits, insurers must be non profit, the government subsidizes the premiums of the poor, no employer insurance. OMG the Swiss invented obamacare. That's just amazing.

So you are advocating government price and benefit controlled doctors/hospitals/insurance companies, compulsory insurance, no employer insurance? I don't believe that.
21   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 12, 7:09am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Strategist says
A democrat strategy that never worked. Borrow, and give it away to the able bodied welfare queens.


No, Dems are the ones that raise taxes when needed to pay for their programs. It's the Reagans and W. Bush's that borrow to give huge breaks to rich people.
22   Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 12, 7:55am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

joeyjojojunior says
Strategist says
A democrat strategy that never worked. Borrow, and give it away to the able bodied welfare queens.


No, Dems are the ones that raise taxes when needed to pay for their programs. It's the Reagans and W. Bush's that borrow to give huge breaks to rich people.


No Joey, if that was the case we would not have deficits when democrat Presidents are in power.
By the way, are you OK with our money being given away to able bodied bums who refuse to work?
23   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 12, 8:07am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Strategist says
No Joey, if that was the case we would not have deficits when democrat Presidents are in power.
By the way, are you OK with our money being given away to able bodied bums who refuse to work?


Actually, if you look the budget deficit over time, it's clear that Dems do a MUCH better job and balancing the budget than do Republicans. It's not even close.

The US Budget is like the titanic--you can't turn it around in 1 year. But you can start a trend towards balance like Clinton did. Like Obama did.

Or you can start a trend towards unbalancing it--like W. Bush did. Like Reagan did.
24   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 12, 9:20am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Goran_K says
Whatever credit he gets for a budget surplus, is erased and puts him deep in the negative for signing and championing Gramm–Leach–Bliley. He basically setup the country for 2008.


So he was too much like a Republican for you then.

Begs the question--why do you continue to vote for politicians that are all the bad of Clinton and none of the good?
25   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 12, 7:50pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Strategist says
Economy, inflation, interest rates, unemployment, etc


Perhaps you ought to read up on the Federal Reserve and how it's controlled. (hint--the Fed probably played a big role in Reagan's win)
26   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2017 Oct 12, 9:18pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I think their tax proposal is good, less money government takes, more money stays in private sector. Government should spend less, and tax less. Solution is simple, it's just not easy.
27   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 13, 6:30am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Strategist says
He screwed up with everything to do with the:
Economy, inflation, interest rates, unemployment, etc
Foreign policy, dumping the Shah of Iran and allowing the Ayatollah to rule Iran. Gosh, he even ended up destroying Iran, a country with a future.
What good was Carter for the USA, and for the world?


You don't know very much about history do you? Actually you nothing about history. Nixon dumped the economy, Carter picked up the pieces, Reagan got credit. The Shah of Iran was going down from his own stupidity no matter who was in the white house. If Carter had sent the entire US military, at least what was left of it after vietnam destroyed the military, to Iran it couldn’t have kept the shaw propped up.

Deregulation was carter's legislation. Which set up the huge boom in airline travel, communications, trucking, shipping, and oil exploration that continues today. So next time you fly coast to coast on a super discount $300 ticket thank carter. In 1976 when carter took office it was illegal to charge less than $1442 (inflation adjusted) NY to LA. Think the internet cell phone, and telecommunications revolution would have happened under Ma Bell and the FCC? No way. You don't remember when Bell owned the lines right to the jack (which was hard wired to the phone) and all the hardware, but I do. When the biggest innovation was the lighted princess phone. Oil dropping to $10 a barrel by the mid 90's. The cost of trucking dropping by 50% or more. The cost of ocean transport dropped even more. Next time you buy cheap at walmart thank carter for cheap transportation to get it there.



Oh my look how that growth line trends up more steeply starting in 1980. Growth isn't good for America in your world apparently.

Not even going to get into Carter establishing diplomatic relations with china or peace treaties.

Sorry you didn't know about this stuff, or anything else in history it seems.
28   Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 13, 9:37am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
You don't know very much about history do you? Actually you nothing about history. Nixon dumped the economy, Carter picked up the pieces


Cough cough cough. Carter replaced Ford, not Nixon. And I'm the one who knows nothing about history?
29   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Oct 13, 11:28am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Strategist says
bob2356 says
You don't know very much about history do you? Actually you nothing about history. Nixon dumped the economy, Carter picked up the pieces


Cough cough cough. Carter replaced Ford, not Nixon. And I'm the one who knows nothing about history?


Nixon polices crashed the economy. It wasn't a time line dufus, it was a list of who did what. I not only voted for Ford, I was a campaign volunteer. I know who Carter replaced.

That's the best reply you can come up with? A misdirection while avoided the issue?
30   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 13, 12:40pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

For anyone to suggest that wages are determined by productivity is laughable. Everything is determined by supply and demand. Period.
31   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 13, 1:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Strategist says
The benefits of higher productivity will go to those who contribute to higher productivity.


Like ceo's that run the company into the ground and walk away with millions? That the kind of benefits we are talking about?
32   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 13, 1:57pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Strategist says
Now for the controversial part. Eventually, a lot of that money trickles down to the less skilled and the poor. How? The rich pay taxes. The rich spend on travel, restaurants. maids etc etc etc


Then why do the top few percent get more and more wealthy? When will this trickle down start. Reagan was elected in 1980.
33   mell   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 13, 2:06pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

joeyjojojunior says
In fact, if I were Benevolent Dictator, I would substantially raise taxes on myself and my wealthy friends.


Regardless of deeper political, philosophical and ethical questions around this proposal it has certainly never been implemented by either party for a long time. What Obummer did was raising taxes on the middle and upper-middle and upper class while letting the real wealthy people untouched. This is were the problem is. The middle-class and upper middle-class and upper-class will gladly vote for a "Republican" proposal that reduces their taxes as well as those of the wealthy because under the Dems they have gotten nothing but assraped. Let me be clear. Raising the taxes on the "wealthy" would be raising taxes on income and other gains on those that make at least one million dollar year per year from their income and other holdings, maybe the bar needs to be set even higher. Anybody making 500K or less working hard is not wealthy, but working for a living. It's that simple. Furthermore you can take from the uber-wealthy as long as you limit the taking until the budget is balanced or debt reduction goals have been met so that this has been revisited and approved every year again. Taxing the upper middle and upper class like Obummer did was just a dick move and thus we have Trump/Republican tax policies now.
34   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 13, 2:10pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

mell says
What Obummer did was raising taxes on the middle and upper-middle and upper class while letting the real wealthy people untouched.


>$250K isn't middle class.

mell says
The middle-class and upper middle-class and upper-class will gladly vote for a "Republican" proposal that reduces their taxes as well


Let me know when Trump proposes such a deal. This one raises their taxes.

But, I disagree anyway.

mell says
Raising the taxes on the "wealthy" would be raising taxes on income and other gains on those that make at least one million dollar year per year from their income and other holdings, maybe the bar needs to be set even higher. Anybody making 500K or less working hard is not wealthy, but working for a living.


Exactly. Let's raise taxes on UNEARNED INCOME. Tax capital, not labor. But you'll NEVER see such a proposal from anyone with an R after their name.
35   mell   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 13, 2:20pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

joeyjojojunior says
>$250K isn't middle class.


In the SF bay area and other high state/municipal tax and high cost of living areas (many coastal areas) it is definitely "just" (upper) middle-class unless you plan on staying single without kids forever.

joeyjojojunior says
mell says
The middle-class and upper middle-class and upper-class will gladly vote for a "Republican" proposal that reduces their taxes as well


Let me know when Trump proposes such a deal. This one raises their taxes.


In my case tax brackets stay the same but deductions double. So I will get a little break. Under Obama my taxes (ACA etc.) and my cap gains went up quite a bit. So if you have the choice between a relief vs a raise on your tax burden the choice is easy. Many are in the same boat.


joeyjojojunior says
Exactly. Let's raise taxes on UNEARNED INCOME. Tax capital, not labor. But you'll NEVER see such a proposal from anyone with an R after their name.


Sure but not blindly. We have already high capital gains taxes on many things. Tax cap gains at the effective (median) tax bracket for everybody and remove all exceptions such as the mortgage interest deduction and the 250/500K free gains if you "live" in your house for 2 years or any other crony crap. If you lump income and cap gains together you don't have to differentiate between the two and the convoluted tax law can become much simpler. Just raise the taxes on the uber-wealthy.
36   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 13, 2:38pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

mell says
In the SF bay area and other high state/municipal tax and high cost of living areas (many coastal areas) it is definitely "just" (upper) middle-class unless you plan on staying single without kids forever.


And in those coastal, high cost of living areas, Trump's tax plan will lead to higher taxes as well. Getting rid of the state and property tax deduction will be a killer.

mell says
In my case tax brackets stay the same but deductions double. So I will get a little break. Under Obama my taxes (ACA etc.) and my cap gains went up quite a bit. So if you have the choice between a relief vs a raise on your tax burden the choice is easy. Many are in the same boat.


Many are in the same boat as me and will see their taxes go up. While watching billionaires get huge tax breaks. How do you think that is going to play?


mell says
Sure but not blindly. We have already high capital gains taxes on many things. Tax cap gains at the effective (median) tax bracket for everybody and remove all exceptions such as the mortgage interest deduction and the 250/500K free gains if you "live" in your house for 2 years or any other crony crap. If you lump income and cap gains together you don't have to differentiate between the two and the convoluted tax law can become much simpler. Just raise the taxes on the uber-wealthy.


Raising cap gains tax hits the uber wealthy. Cap the MID or keep the AMT in place.

Who cares about simple?? Why should simple be a desire? Let's make it function well and lead to a prosperous economy, lots of jobs, and real income gains for everyone. If it has to be a bit more complicated, so be it.

There is absolutely NO reason why labor should EVER be taxed higher than capital. None. Unearned income is by definition not earned. The US is awash with capital. The government needs to tax it rather than borrow it.
37   Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 13, 3:38pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
Strategist says
Now for the controversial part. Eventually, a lot of that money trickles down to the less skilled and the poor. How? The rich pay taxes. The rich spend on travel, restaurants. maids etc etc etc


Then why do the top few percent get more and more wealthy? When will this trickle down start. Reagan was elected in 1980.


Welfare Queens in America live better than most of the working class on the planet. You don't need more proof about trickle down.
38   Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 13, 3:47pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says

Like ceo's that run the company into the ground and walk away with millions? That the kind of benefits we are talking about?


No my dear friend. That benefit is called a tax write off for the share holders.
39   Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 13, 3:51pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

joeyjojojunior says

For anyone to suggest that wages are determined by productivity is laughable. Everything is determined by supply and demand. Period.


My dear short sighted friend....Burger flippers are in excess supply, while tech workers are in excess demand. It all boils down to productivity.
40   Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 13, 3:54pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

It's very sad I have to explain every single detail to you guys, and you still don't get it.

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