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Spain acts unconstitutionally, to rule Catalonia direct from Madrid

By TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce following x   2017 Oct 21, 10:22am 1,724 views   19 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


Cruel Castille is removing all Catalonian Autonomy, seeking to remove it's leader, and placing it under direct rule from Corrupt Madrid (a place so Corrupt even Royalty has been involved in corruption). Almost none of it is constitutional, and just last week the Cruel Castillians were so worried about what was Constitutional or not; today in order to dominate their final vassal/colony, it's not such a concern.

Juncker, Merkel, and all the other Defenders of Democracy and Human Rights are nowhere to be found. They apparently are only interested when these things happen to Muslims, not in Europe to the Europeans. C'mon, what else is the EU for but to help people in the Middle East leave their region?
1   justme   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 21, 10:37am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

A reference would be useful.
2   justme   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 21, 10:46am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Please refer to the part of the constitution of Spain where it says that regions/states/whatever of Spain have a right to secede by unilateral choice.
3   DASKAA   ignore (3)   2017 Oct 21, 2:08pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Who said it's unconstitutional? Are you Spanish constitutinal lawyer in addition to all your other talents?
4   BlueSardine   ignore (2)   2017 Oct 21, 6:10pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Spain is not a country therefore it cannot have a constitution
5   ja   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 21, 6:27pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

This looks a totally biased argument.
Madrid is quite corrupt, but so is Catalonia. But ad corruption arguments should be as shameful as ad hominem arguments.
I'm not an expert in law, but since I have an IQ >=80, I can say I'm pretty sure that the one who acted unconstitutionally was Catalonia. Constitutional Courts said so. Constitutional judges may be influenced by centralist powers, but the first article of the constitution says that Spain is an indivisible country, so I'm not sure how could it be declared unconstitutional avoiding one region trying to separate for the rest.

This is independent on whether you consider that any subset of people should have the right to create its own country, by a superior moral law.
6   ja   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 21, 6:55pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Sorry.. it was article 2

Artículo 2.
La Constitución se fundamenta en la indisoluble unidad de la
Nación española, patria común e indivisible de todos los españoles, y
reconoce y garantiza el derecho a la autonomía de las nacionalidades
y regiones que la integran y la solidaridad entre todas ellas

Article 2
The Constitution is based on the indissoluble unity of the
Spanish nation, common and indivisible homeland of all Spaniards, and
recognizes and guarantees the right to the autonomy of nationalities
and regions that integrate it and the solidarity between them
7   justme   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 21, 7:20pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

Look at this, quality contributions from an infrequent commenter (@ja). Is something about to change on Patnet? I hope so/
8   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Oct 21, 8:27pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

@ja,

Do you know of any country in the world which says in its constitution that the country can be divided. Any country will break when basic human rights of one region are taken away by majority. Or if there is a perception of such violations. And that is what we need to understand it here. Just quoting constitution in this regard is idiotic.
9   indc   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 21, 8:29pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

@ja,

Do you know of any country in the world which says in its constitution that the country can be divided. Any country will break when basic human rights of one region are taken away by majority. Or if there is a perception of such violations. And that is what we need to understand it here. Just quoting constitution in this regard is idiotic.
10   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 21, 9:53pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

What were the Spaniards doing to the catalonians?? I don't know-if TX or CA decided theyw anted to secede-not sure that would be a good idea?
11   ja   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 22, 11:28am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I didn't claim the constitution as a source of moral truth, I just quoted it correctly.

If you want to secede, you can do it negotiating (done a few times) or with arms (done in most cases). If none of those are option, you get in a 'locked' state.
One side may pretend (justified or not) than his humans rights are violated to exalt the population and use victim ism as a weapon. The other side doesn't have any incentive to negotiate and will only claim constitutional law (and implicitly the will of majority of Spain: Spaniards would not vote a Constitution reform that would allow Catalonia to secede).

Laws don't have to be fair. When there is no superior law than the Constitution, the only way is breaking the law. Catalans are delusional when they thing it's not.
12   ja   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 22, 11:30am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

lostand confused says
What were the Spaniards doing to the catalonians??


Unless you are a blind nationalist, the question should be : what were the Spanish nationalist (with their legal right, since Constitution goes in their favor) doing to the Catalan nationalists?

Basically:
- Not allowing to define themselves as a 'nation' in their Estatut (~ Catalonian Constitution)
- Not giving them more money (of the one they contribute to other regions)
13   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2017 Oct 22, 12:53pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Reference: Reuters

ja says
Constitutional judges may be influenced by centralist powers, but the first article of the constitution says that Spain is an indivisible country, so I'm not sure how could it be declared unconstitutional avoiding one region trying to separate for the rest.


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-catalonia/catalonias-leaders-fight-off-direct-rule-from-madrid-idUSKBN1CQ0AQ?il=0
The Republic of Spain, when writing the Constitution, faced a coup engineered by the King's Personal Military Advisor/Tutor, threatening to restore the dictatorship unless a host of Centralizing, At the time, Francoist Generals controlled almost the entire armed forces. King Carlos played a bullshit game where he "talked his personal lifelong friend/Tutor in backing down, preserving democracy" --- at the cost of inserting these tyrannical wordings were inserted in the Constitution while under threat. One of these is direct rule from Madrid and other is requiring Castellan Permission (effectively since a majority of provinces are Castellano) for any province to seceede.

Agreements done under threat of force can be blissfully ignored.

The real issue here is Euro and "International Law Gobaloney" Hypocrisy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_independence_precedent

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/350-kosovo-precedent-secession-self-determination-and-conflict-resolution

Kosovo was occupied by foreign troops and didn't even have a referendum, just a parliament vote. By Globaloney Standards, then, Catalonia didn't even need a referendum, just a majority of the Generalitat to leave Spain. But of course, that was to help Muslims and hurt Orthodox, so "That's Different". Just like Bosnian Serbs don't have a right to secede from Bosnia for some reason.

I believe there is only one excuse for Rebellion: If you win.
14   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (35)   2017 Oct 22, 1:29pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Catalonia has all the cash

They need to tell Madrid to fuck themselves

Buy a bunch of nukes from N Korea or the states

Tell Madrid to try fucking with them
15   Quigley   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 22, 4:05pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Spain still has a king, who controls the military. Parliament is fine and well, but doesn’t cover all existing government. The royals still rule.
16   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2017 Oct 22, 5:26pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Also forgotten is the King and Franco used Muslim Bandits to terrorize the country.

The Husband of the Princess of Spain took a fall for her in a huge corruption/tax evasion scandal just a few months back.
17   ja   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 22, 6:29pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsMcGee says
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-catalonia/catalonias-leaders-fight-off-direct-rule-from-madrid-idUSKBN1CQ0AQ?il=0
The Republic of Spain, when writing the Constitution, faced a coup engineered by the King's Personal Military Advisor/Tutor, threatening to restore the dictatorship unless a host of Centralizing, At the time, Francoist Generals controlled almost the entire armed forces. King Carlos played a bullshit game where he "talked his personal lifelong friend/Tutor in backing down, preserving democracy" --- at the cost of inserting these tyrannical wordings were inserted in the Constitution while under threat. One of these is direct rule from Madrid and other is requiring Castellan Permission (effectively since a majority of provinces are Castellano) for any province to seceede.


The article is merely descriptive of the current situation. To what historical coup are you referring to?

TwoScoopsMcGee says
Kosovo was occupied by foreign troops and didn't even have a referendum


YEs.. it was politics as usual, no law involved. Oppression and war is one of the three sup-posits under which unilateral independence tends to be recognized (far from Catalonia situation). But, of course, also plays a role the interests of the countries that recognize it. They are not going to strictly follow any unwritten superior moral law

TwoScoopsMcGee says
I believe there is only one excuse for Rebellion: If you win.


I agree with that. Not the case of Catalonia. It was a bluff and Spain was watching the cards all the time.
18   ja   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 22, 6:30pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says
They need to tell Madrid to fuck themselves

Buy a bunch of nukes from N Korea or the states

Tell Madrid to try fucking with them


Sorry.. Spanish first minister had the idea first

http://www.ccma.cat/tv3/alacarta/polonia/polonia-lesperada-reunio-entre-mariano-rajoy-i-kim-jong-un/video/5689804/
19   ja   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 22, 6:32pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsMcGee says
Also forgotten is the King and Franco used Muslim Bandits to terrorize the country.


What has Franco have to do with Muslims bandits?

TwoScoopsMcGee says
The Husband of the Princess of Spain took a fall for her in a huge corruption/tax evasion scandal just a few months back.


Yes, and the ex-king was caught hunting elephants with his lover. But this is an ad corruption argument.




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