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Who Gets Amazon HQ2?

By WookieMan following x   2017 Oct 26, 8:30am 1,283 views   20 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/24/news/companies/amazon-second-headquarters-atlanta-odds/index.html
Not a gambling man, I just don't see how Atlanta is the favorite, at least on this site. I know Atlanta isn't all the bad, but man, it's the South. Not the best source for educated employees without people having to move there from other areas.

My vote is Chicago. Because I would stand to benefit from that. No other thought was put into that thought. Although we have a couple world renowned University's, great transportation (people & freight), two solid airports, cheaper cost of living to comparable large cities and of course Wookieman.

What do ya think Patnet? Who you think wins it?
1   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 26, 8:32am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Oh and I know they matter, but let's not account for the subsidies that some cities have made public since submitting. Pure location and infrastructure decision if you were Amazon's CEO.
3   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2017 Oct 26, 9:58am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

East coast - either Boston or DC/Nova. Both are attractive for prospective employees and have a large workforce in place. Altanta if they are going for cheap cost of living. Are the central States legitimate contenders? I thought they were specifically looking for East Coast.
4   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 26, 9:58am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

rpanic01 says
Denver is my guess.

Yeah, been there twice the past two summers. Didn't use public transportation, so can't speak to that. Otherwise pretty damn cool city and cool/good airport (except taxing from runway 35R/17L). Good pot. It would probably be my top 3 for sure. A little too far West though and redundant/close to the HQ in Seattle already, although I don't know if that's a factor. I'm guessing they'll likely want to be on the East coast or much closer to it compared to Denver. Denver to NYC vs. Chicago to NYC probably is a factor they think about I imagine. Or ATL to NYC, etc.
5   Philistine   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 26, 10:10am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

WookieMan says
I know Atlanta isn't all the bad, but man,

To YYN's point, Atlanta would strictly be a cost play. Cheaper cost of living=paying employees less than you have to pay them to live in NYC, also cheaper office space.

I think the South does not have the Hip and Cool factor for young educated types, but we are at the beginning of a trend of people moving out of overpriced, overpopulated, overrated cities to afford an actual standard of living, buy a house, and support a family without living hand to mouth. An Amazon salary in the South would fit that trend nicely and attract plenty of talent that is young enough to move around the country before they have settled down.

Denver is nice for 8 months out of the year. The other 4 months are what separate the men from the boys and run the carpetbaggers out of town.
6   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 26, 10:47am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

YesYNot says
Are the central States legitimate contenders? I thought they were specifically looking for East Coast.

While it doesn't matter technically, I was basically getting at what you would think would be best for Amazon (excluding any subsidies we know about from certain city's). I know Amazon gets to make the decision. Just trying to get a feel of what others here at Patnet would do. Kind of interested what others think of certain parts of the country, especially considering the skew toward the West coast here at Patnet. It's very(most) likely not going to be on the West coast, so kind of wanted to see what those guys say. Along with others. Just looking to hear some different ideas/arguments why someone might this X location is better then Y.

My bias is Chicago, and I for the most part think it would make the most sense (again I'm biased). While the East coast is loaded with solid and really good Universities, the Midwest is no slouch. Especially with Univ. of Chicago, Univ. of IL and Northwestern all right there near/in Chicago. Factor in some other solid Big 10 uni's with good tech programs nearby (Univ. of Wisconsin, Univ. of Minnesota & Univ. of Michigan & Purdue).

For stocking up warehouses, Chicago is at the center of rail freight. They've built and are building some massive warehouse here in Northern IL (Amazon). So it might be nice to have a secondary HQ near a central point where a lot of stuff coming in from the East or West coast has to be organized and then distributed to the secondary and tertiary markets for future distribution. On the coast (not even Seattle really) you just see the products coming in and may not grasp organizational inadequacies of your centrally located warehouses. Almost anything bulk that Amazon sells (imports) is very likely coming through Chicago at some point via rail. There's a reason the precursors to Amazon made Chicago their headquarters (think Sears, Montgomery Wards, etc).

Also, between Seattle and a potential Chicago HQ, you've got pretty much 95% of the country covered by plane in 2 to 2-1/2 hours. If you go East Coast, you're 5 hours from HQ to HQ, that's nuts if you ask me. But I also don't know how often employees would be needing to make an HQ to HQ trip. A lot at the beginning I imagine. But having access to most major market in 2 hours or less at a moments notice is probably important.

All this said, IL shoots itself in its own foot at the end of the day. While the cost of living is cheaper than the East coast, property taxes are a bear. And it's not getting better anytime soon. State taxes will very likely keep increasing as well. I want Chicago/IL to get it, but I'm also realistic and it's probably not happening.
7   zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 26, 11:09am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I have no fucking idea. It's a crapshoot. If it comes to Maryland I may leave this state sooner, rather than later.

What will be interesting is to see what immediate repricing people do to any housing that they are currently trying to sell. Think of it as an Amazon tax, but I am expecting to real estate asking listing prices jump pretty quickly at the proposed location when it's announced.

Also, I suspect that they want something farther away from Seattle than Denver. Probably something in the east or midwest.
8   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 26, 11:15am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

WookieMan says
All this said, IL shoots itself in its own foot at the end of the day. While the cost of living is cheaper than the East coast, property taxes are a bear. And it's not getting better anytime soon. State taxes will very likely keep increasing as well. I want Chicago/IL to get it, but I'm also realistic and it's probably not happening.


Chicago property taxes, state income taxes-Austin is my bet.
10   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 26, 12:04pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

justme says
Detroit

Do they need target practice for corporate layoff prospects?
11   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2017 Oct 26, 12:26pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Honestly, I don't know what these 50K people are going to do. Do they need to be near transport hubs? I'm assuming that the majority will be in analytics/IT/business development etc. In other words, I don't think that the bulk of them have to be near a shipping/warehouse hub. Have you been researching this? What do you think that they need in a 2nd HQ?
My understanding is that most warehouses are probably near customers. They want to deliver faster and faster, and it doesn't pay to have a bunch of product sitting in Chicago if the customer is on the East or West coast. They are going to store product where it is being sold to the extent practicable.
12   RC2006   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 26, 12:34pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

YesYNot says
I don't think that the bulk of them have to be near a shipping/warehouse hub


Thats why I thought Denver for communication and travel reasons would be the best bet especially with them getting into more non material products. Denver is the largest U.S. city to offer one-bounce satellite uplinks.
13   joshuatrio   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 26, 6:05pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Philistine says
An Amazon salary in the South would fit that trend nicely and attract plenty of talent that is young enough to move around the country before they have settled down.


That's exactly what we did. I actually love it down here. I've never been this relaxed in my life. At the rate I'm going, I'll be retired at 40.
14   WatermelonUniversity   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 26, 9:45pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Detroit & Atlanta LOL. move there if you enjoy black on X violence.
15   zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 1, 8:35am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

http://www.dbknews.com/2017/10/02/amazon-request-for-proposal-prince-georges-county-headquarters-college-park/

Having the headquarters in College Park could cut down Route 1 traffic,

That's some pretty fucked up logic right there!!!
16   zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2018 Jan 18, 8:09am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/18/amazon-narrows-list-of-candidates-for-new-headquarters-hq2-to-20.html

Amazon narrows the list of metro areas for its new headquarters to 20

The remaining 20 places are:

Atlanta
Austin, Texas
Boston
Chicago
Columbus, Ohio
Dallas
Denver
Indianapolis
Los Angeles
Miami
Montgomery County, Md.
Nashville, Tenn.
Newark, N.J.
New York City
Northern Virginia
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Raleigh, N.C.
Toronto
Washington, D.C.
17   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 18, 8:29am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Alright, so they got it down to 20 cities that they can now directly fleece.

Definite no's on my list and surprised they made it:
Toronto - Would be a historically bad move in this political climate. Populists that use Amazon would stop immediately.
Columbus, OH - Seriously? Ohio is an awful state to visit, drive through, visit, live in, visit, etc.
Northern Virginia - I don't get this. Where?
Both Pennsylvania Locations - Why? Why would you?
Washington, D.C. - Hell no's.

All the others are probably fine. Raleigh, N.C. is not a real quality place for an Amazon type company. I know nothing about Montgomery County, M.D. but assume it's close to D.C. and/or Baltimore. I'd probably say no on that too.

So this is a list of 13 if you ask me. And even then it's still smaller. NYC is just too much money and I don't get what the benefit would be outside of talent. LA kind of falls into this category with high cost of living for employees and high state income tax. Great weather though outside of mudslides and fires.

Places that make the most sense on this list.
Atlanta
Boston
Chicago
Dallas
Denver
Indianapolis
Miami
Nashville
Newark, N.J.

If it's not one of these 9 I would be surprised.
18   zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2018 Jan 18, 8:32am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

WookieMan says
I know nothing about Montgomery County, M.D. but assume it's close to D.C.


It's suburban DC. Like Northern VA, it's an expensive place to live that is very business unfriendly, so I can't imagine why they would even consider it.
19   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 18, 8:33am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

You know what Seattle residents call the swarms of Amazon executives that plague their streets?
“Amholes”

Got that from a real Seattle resident.

Oh and if the choice was mine I’d pick Atlanta also. Great place, taxes not too high like Boston or Chicago.
However Bezos is a super librul and so he will probably pick someplace a bit more “crunchy.”
20   zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 15, 9:56am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

'Not welcome here': Amazon faces growing resistance to its second home

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/15/not-welcome-here-amazon-faces-growing-resistance-to-its-second-home

What do you get for the man who has everything? When it comes to Jeff Bezos – the richest man in the world with around $130bn to his name – many US cities competing to host Amazon’s second headquarters have an answer: billions of dollars in tax incentives.

That proposition has united an ideologically diverse group of dissenters to Amazon’s grand HQ2 competition, ranging from rightwing organizations linked to the Koch brothers to the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA). Groups and individuals that would normally agree only to mutual disdain and distrust have somehow come around to the same conclusion: that Amazon’s decision to pit 20 cities against each other in a fight to host a future hub is a bad deal for everyone except Amazon.

n Atlanta, an anonymous group of activists with roots in the Occupy movement has set up AtlantaAgainstAmazon.org, a website that compares the HQ2 process to “something like a televised Hunger Games death-match”, and has designed anti-Amazon flyers that have been plastered around town.

Generation Opportunity, a conservative advocacy group for millennials associated with the Koch brothers, has launched a targeted digital ad campaign with a slickly produced, ominously soundtracked video that compares the HQ2 competition to – wait for it – the Hunger Games.

And a petition launched by the prominent urbanist Richard Florida and dozens of other academics calling for the finalist cities to unite in a “mutual non-aggression pact” on tax incentives has garnered more than 15,000 signatures.

The idea behind the pact is that rather than engage in a tax-break arms race, everyone should agree not to offer incentives. That would force Amazon to simply choose its new home by the merits of the locations, which Florida told the Guardian he suspects they will do anyway, and free up local governments to invest their tax dollars in the kind of improvements that make a city attractive to a corporation in the first place.

“I didn’t expect to ever write a protest letter,” said Florida, who was part of the group that organized Toronto’s bid for HQ2, where he advocated against tax incentives. “But one weekend I was so mad, I started emailing my friends across the ideological spectrum, and every one of them said they’d sign on in a minute.”

Florida called the tax incentives proposed by states like New Jersey ($7bn) and Maryland ($3bn) “obscene”, an assessment shared by the Washington-based advocacy group Fair Budget Coalition.

“Jeff Bezos personally has more money than the district’s budget,” said the group’s co-director, Monica Kamen. “Are we going to give the richest man in history a tax break before we make sure that homeless children have a place to sleep?”

The Fair Budget Coalition has worked with the local DSA chapter to launch “Obviously Not DC”, a campaign that takes its name from the district’s pro-DC hashtag campaign, #ObviouslyDC.

Asked how the group felt about ending up on the same side of an issue as the liberal bogeymen the Kochs, Kamen’s co-director Stephanie Sneed chimed in: “A broken clock is right twice a day.”

Brad Landers, a member of New York City council who signed the Florida petition, said that he would be happy for Amazon to move to New York, as long as it paid its fair share.

“You’re not opening a second headquarters as a charitable project,” he said. “You are opening it to make more money, and that is going to impose all these costs that our city has to bear, especially around transit, infrastructure, schools, and housing. You’re not expected to pay more, even though you have some outsize impacts, but to ask to pay less is just appallingly bad corporate behavior.”




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