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GOP Tax Plan "Talking Point" Highlights Released


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2017 Nov 2, 7:52am   20,819 views  166 comments

by MrMagic   ➕follow (2)   💰tip   ignore  

The GOP released the "talking point" highlights of the republican tax plan which, as previewed earlier this morning, will keep the 20% corporate tax cut as permanent, and which allegedly will assure that a family of 4 making $59,000 will get a $1,182 tax cut.

Here are the most notable changes:

- Lowers individual tax rates for low- and middle-income Americans to Zero, 12%, 25%, and 35%; keeps tax rate for those making over $1 million at 39.6%
- Increases the standard deduction from $6,350 to $12,000 for individuals and $12,700 to $24,000 for married couples.
- Establishing a new Family Credit, which includes expanding the Child Tax Credit from $1,000 to $1,600
- Preserving the Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit
- Preserves the Earned Income Tax Credit
- Preserves the home mortgage interest deduction for existing mortgages and maintains the home mortgage interest deduction for newly purchased homes up to $500,000, half the current $1,000,000
- Continues to allow people to write off the cost of state and local property taxes up to $10,000
- Retains popular retirement savings options such as 401(k)s and Individual Retirement Accounts
- Repeals the Alternative Minimum Tax
- Lowers the corporate tax rate to 20% – down from 35%
- Reduces the tax rate on business income to no more than 25%
- Establishes strong safeguards to distinguish between individual wage income and “pass-through” business income
- Allows businesses to immediately write off the full cost of new equipment
- Retains the low-income housing tax credit

A key issue will be the treatment of the state and local tax deduction, which lawmakers are proposing to cap at $10,000.

The bill also “makes no changes to the popular retirement savings options that Americans have today — including 401(k)’s and Individual Retirement Accounts, or I.R.A.s. Americans will be able to continuing making both traditional, pretax contributions and ‘Roth’ contributions in the way that works best for them.”




http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-02/gop-tax-plan-talking-point-highlights-released
#economics

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1   joeyjojojunior   2017 Nov 2, 8:16am  

You forgot to mention how much this will increase the deficit every year. Can't wait to see the CBO score on this turd.

What a great policy--borrow money and give it to the rich! That's what you guys voted for, right?
2   lostand confused   2017 Nov 2, 8:26am  

Interesting-I was reading about the territorial system for taxes-where we becoem in line with the rest of the developed world. Any info on that for corporate and especially individuals and territorial taxes . We are the only developed nation on earth that does that on cooperates and individuals. Corporates had an exception if they kept it out of the USA.
Obozo the clown tortured individuals with FATCA-I haven't read anything about that.

Looks like mortgage deductions down to 500k. So CA crap shacks not deductible above 500k ??

Looks like state and proeprty deductions capped at 10k -interesting-IL will take a hit as will CA and NY/NJ etc.
3   anonymous   2017 Nov 2, 8:37am  

When they mention 401ks twice saying won't is that like a double negative?
4   joeyjojojunior   2017 Nov 2, 8:39am  

Sniper says

You really think either party gives a shit about that?


Crap--I forgot. Deficits only matter when a Democrat is President!!

How silly of me.
5   WookieMan   2017 Nov 2, 8:52am  

lostand confused says
Looks like mortgage deductions down to 500k. So CA crap shacks not deductible above 500k ??

Moving forward it sounds like. Not sure how it would pertain to refi's, but it sounded like new purchases. The way I understood it was that if you purchased a $501k shack in CA, you can't deduct the interest IF this tax proposal is signed. The $500k-$1M market is there, but I'm not certain this swings things one way or another. Especially with the raise of standard deduction. Any increased tax revenue due to the price reduction on this, is easily wiped out by people who don't itemize and can now take a $24k standard deduction.

lostand confused says
Looks like state and proeprty deductions capped at 10k -interesting-IL will take a hit as will CA and NY/NJ etc.


I think this one is a dead issue. There's no way it's going to be that low. There are states with no income taxes and low property taxes, but as people figure this out, it will be destroyed. I don't recall if there as a limit before, but this at least doubles or triples from the current amount in my opinion. Just in IL tons of people hit this threshold with pretty middle class lifestyles.

I'm still analyzing, but there's very little in this plan that's positive for W-2 employees making $130k or more roughly. I'm talking families, not individuals. Businesses do get the bulk of the benefits here. Successful small business owners may give some of it back though. Interested to see where the 25% to 35% income break is. Obviously the cap on state income and property tax could be another give back.

If I'm a family with 2-3 kids and making $50-$90k, this will put more money in my pocket. So it seems somewhat good for them. We'll just see if these reductions in business taxes end up with employees or end up in the owners pocket.
6   Strategist   2017 Nov 2, 9:08am  

joeyjojojunior says
You forgot to mention how much this will increase the deficit every year. Can't wait to see the CBO score on this turd.

What a great policy--borrow money and give it to the rich! That's what you guys voted for, right?


The $trillions that corporations have stacked up in other countries will now come flying in. Yes, I voted for that.
I also voted for simpler, less tax brackets.
And not to forget a tax cut for dear Strategist. If it's good for Strategist, it's good for everyone.
7   anonymous   2017 Nov 2, 9:21am  

Sniper says
You really think either party gives a shit about that?


No but you absolutely give a shit about that because you've been screaming and crying about it for 8 years!!!
8   anonymous   2017 Nov 2, 9:36am  

Sniper says
- Repeals the Alternative Minimum Tax
- Lowers the corporate tax rate to 20% – down from 35%
- Reduces the tax rate on business income to no more than 25%
- Establishes strong safeguards to distinguish between individual wage income and “pass-through” business income
- Allows businesses to immediately write off the full cost of new equipment


Well at least the working class doesn't need to worry about owning anything anymore.
9   HEY YOU   2017 Nov 2, 9:39am  

joeyjojojunior says
You forgot to mention how much this will increase the deficit every year. Can't wait to see the CBO score on this turd.

What a great policy--borrow money and give it to the rich! That's what you guys voted for, right?


BUT MAGA! WINNING!
....
How much can taxes be cut if all Republicans lost all hand-outs & subsidies to their free market businesses
that wouldn't survive without their beloved socialism?
....
Sniper says
You really think either party gives a shit about that?


NO!
Proof: +$20,000,000,000,000 natl. debt.
Some losers think that debt,if unpaid,has no affect on the economy.
Proof 2.0: There has never been a loss on borrowed money.

Losers can't pay cash.
10   Strategist   2017 Nov 2, 10:07am  

anon_25c83 says
Well at least the working class doesn't need to worry about owning anything anymore.


Correction: the working class that is NOT WORKING doesn't need to worry about owning anything anymore.
11   anonymous   2017 Nov 2, 10:15am  

Strategist says
Correction: the working class that is NOT WORKING doesn't need to worry about owning anything anymore.


How did you conclude that? What connection are you making between a tax policy that will cut millions off a billionaire's tax bill and welfare?

This is the worst law to come out of Washington in 100 years and the suffering is going to be huge.
12   zzyzzx   2017 Nov 2, 10:20am  

Strategist says
I also voted for simpler, less tax brackets.


I don't see how that makes it simpler. Noe getting rid of the AMT and lots of deductions, that does simplify taxes.
13   anonymous   2017 Nov 2, 10:30am  

zzyzzx says
Noe getting rid of the AMT and lots of deductions, that does simplify taxes.


The only deductions 95% of individuals use are charity, home mortgage, and state taxes. Also the AMT only hit people in the top 10% tax bracket. This entire bill is for the rich.
14   anonymous   2017 Nov 2, 10:39am  

anon_25c83 says

How did you conclude that? What connection are you making between a tax policy that will cut millions off a billionaire's tax bill and welfare?

This is the worst law to come out of Washington in 100 years and the suffering is going to be huge.


The standard deduction being doubled helps the lower income workers. It's not just for the rich.
15   Strategist   2017 Nov 2, 10:40am  

anon_fd7ee says

The standard deduction being doubled helps the lower income workers. It's not just for the rich.


Strategist.
16   anonymous   2017 Nov 2, 10:40am  

anon_fd7ee says
The standard deduction being doubled helps the lower income workers. It's not just for the rich.


Except they also have a tax increase of 2%.

Anyway the more important issue is this. The economy is still growing, wages are still rising, times are good. Why are we lowering taxes for everyone when there's already a massive debt?
17   MrMagic   2017 Nov 2, 10:40am  

WookieMan says
If I'm a family with 2-3 kids and making $50-$90k, this will put more money in my pocket. So it seems somewhat good for them.


That's what the original focus of the plan was. The median income in the US is like $60K.

The rich don't need the money, and the poor are poor by choice, because they don't want to put in any effort to better themselves. The Bernie voters just want everything given to them for FREE.
18   MrMagic   2017 Nov 2, 10:41am  

Strategist says
anon_25c83 says
Well at least the working class doesn't need to worry about owning anything anymore.


Correction: the working class that is NOT WORKING doesn't need to worry about owning anything anymore.


Perfect clarification.
19   anonymous   2017 Nov 2, 10:43am  

WookieMan says
If I'm a family with 2-3 kids and making $50-$90k, this will put more money in my pocket.


Did you include your tax increase of 2% in your calculations?
20   anonymous   2017 Nov 2, 10:53am  

Bueller?

That's right. Piggy didn't include any comment about the tax increase that the bottom tax bracket is going to receive. This is smoke and mirrors designed to give the working class almost nothing while the rich get huge tax cuts.
21   Strategist   2017 Nov 2, 11:00am  

anon_25c83 says
Anyway the more important issue is this. The economy is still growing, wages are still rising, times are good. Why are we lowering taxes for everyone when there's already a massive debt?


Our growth rate is not good enough. A GDP growth rate of 3.5% to 4% would be good. Times can be better for all of us with tax cuts.
As for the "massive debt"......When have we not worried about a massive debt? The debt as it stands now is affordable.
22   MrMagic   2017 Nov 2, 11:06am  

anon_25c83 says
designed to give the working class almost nothing while the rich get huge tax cuts.


The top 10% pay the bulk of the taxes, why shouldn't they get a break. We've been over this many times, please try and keep up.
23   Strategist   2017 Nov 2, 11:15am  

Sniper says

The bottom bracket is 0%, what increase are they going to get, you know, that 47% of the population that voted for Obama?


The poor never had it so good. They pay no taxes, get lots of freebies, and still get to complain.
Wish I was that poor.
24   joeyjojojunior   2017 Nov 2, 11:33am  

Sniper says
The rich don't need the money


So why are we giving the rich the biggest tax break in history??

The benefits of this tax "reform" go almost entirely to the rich.
25   Tenpoundbass   2017 Nov 2, 11:42am  

They don't expect this bill to pass. They even took out the Obama Tax repeal.
They are just trying to make a show before the special election next month.
They are just killing themselves.
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/358396-tax-bill-will-not-seek-repeal-of-individual-health-insurance-mandate
26   WookieMan   2017 Nov 2, 11:50am  

anon_25c83 says
Did you include your tax increase of 2% in your calculations?

The 2% increase in that tax bracket is negligible in the grand scheme of this plan. The standard deduction is doubled. You'll be hard pressed to find a family making $50-$90k that itemizes. They just got an ADDITIONAL $11,300 reduction on their gross income for doing zilch. The previous 10% bracket will still be similar as far as income levels, it's just now 12%. Most people in this income range will now not have to pay ANY taxes on an additional $11,300. This is $24,000 you pay NO federal tax on. While the numbers will pale in comparison to the 1%, this is a tax cut for many, truly middle class people. Your first $24,000 of income is not taxed at the Federal level.

Outside of that, this tax plan is purely designed for business owners. I'm not sure how to feel about the whole thing yet. I want to see both sides react, see the good and the bad of the plan. For me personally, it very likely results in me paying more taxes as a W-2 employee, non-business owner.
27   lostand confused   2017 Nov 2, 11:55am  

This is not bad.

. For individuals, the 25 percent rate starts at $45,000, the 35 percent rate at $200,000, and the 39.6 percent rate at $500,000. For married couples filing together, the 25 percent rate will start at $90,000, the 35 percent rate at $260,000, and the 39.6

So a single upto 199k -which is pretty much upper middle class in many areas it is now 25%
And they are keeping the top tax bracket of 39.6%

IL folks would be screwed a 300k home can carry a 10-12k a bill and then good luck with state taxes that can't be deducted-but std deductions are going up. I think they will keep the 10k limit.
Lots of good things, I am still curious about territorial taxation for individuals to make us like the rest of the developed world.
28   anonymous   2017 Nov 2, 12:06pm  

lostand confused says
This is not bad.


The plan does exactly what Reagan did. It will flood the economy with borrowed cash and no spending will be cut.

I wonder how many times you personally complained about the national debt?
29   anonymous   2017 Nov 2, 12:43pm  

I thought they eliminated state and local tax deductions all together
30   joeyjojojunior   2017 Nov 2, 12:47pm  

Strategist says
The poor never had it so good. They pay no taxes, get lots of freebies, and still get to complain.
Wish I was that poor.


Are you not sure how to do it? Let me help. Give all your money to charity, quit your job, and start working at Walmart.

Boom--wish granted.
31   Shaman   2017 Nov 2, 12:56pm  

There’s not much to like in here for me or any middle class person. Good thing to know that the rich can now write off all their income and pay zero now without that pesky alternative minimum tax!
Oh and bequeath their ill gotten gains to their progeny so continue the noble line.
32   joeyjojojunior   2017 Nov 2, 1:02pm  

Quigley says
There’s not much to like in here for me or any middle class person. Good thing to know that the rich can now write off all their income and pay zero now without that pesky alternative minimum tax!
Oh and bequeath their ill gotten gains to their progeny so continue the noble line.


+1. Those are the key to the deal and why the 1% is pushing this tax deal. The other stuff is just noise to make sure the Koch Bros. get theirs.
33   Philistine   2017 Nov 2, 1:13pm  

WookieMan says
The standard deduction is doubled.

Except what nobody is saying much about is the personal exemptions are being eliminated under this plan. Verily, what the large print giveth, the fine print taketh away. Ironically, the doubling of standard deduction and elimination of personal exemptions would possibly hurt middle class families but still work out slightly better for singles and married without children:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-trump-taxes-standard-deduction-20170928-story.html
"Under existing tax law, a married couple with two children can combine the $12,700 standard deduction and $16,200 in personal and dependent exemptions to shield $28,900 from federal income tax. Under the Republican plan, that same couple would be able to shield just $24,000."
34   WookieMan   2017 Nov 2, 1:19pm  

lostand confused says
IL folks would be screwed a 300k home can carry a 10-12k a bill and then good luck with state taxes that can't be deducted-but std deductions are going up. I think they will keep the 10k limit.

It's a double tax man. I'd be shocked if it stays. It already leaked they were thinking of completely eliminating a cap and it's now $10k in this plan. I'm predicting it goes to $20k and potentially $30k. And if this cap includes city income taxes (not many have them, but think NYC) then this gets bumped big time from $10k. Pretty much anyone living and owning a place in NYC is over this in the snap of a finger. Highly taxed people don't just keep bending over and taking it.

If you make $100k in NYC you're already hitting the $10k cap, with city income tax if that's included in the $10k cap. So lets say your property taxes are also $10k in NYC. You've paid those taxes to the county. The money is gone. Guess what, you now have to pay Federal income tax on that missing $10k that was paid for property taxes. This is one of the dumber parts of this plan. It's taxing money a 2nd time. On money that is already gone.
35   anonymous   2017 Nov 2, 1:40pm  

I don't think anyone should be allowed to praise the republican lower taxes on everyone tax plan unless they can explain which trillion dollar per year spending cut they support.

Shall I hold my breath?
36   lostand confused   2017 Nov 2, 1:43pm  

anon_a2dbc says

I wonder how many times you personally complained about the national debt?


I will continue to complain. That has nothing to do witht axes-it has to do with cuts. Cut from the military , to the DEA to everything in between. They cna easily come up with double the tax cuts or triple.
37   MrMagic   2017 Nov 2, 1:48pm  

joeyjojojunior says
The benefits of this tax "reform" go almost entirely to the rich.


Really, their tax level doesn't change and they lose the ability to deduct all their property taxes?
38   BayArea   2017 Nov 2, 1:55pm  

Living on the Peninsula where median home price are upwards of $1.5M or more in many cities, this mortgage interest deduction limit and property tax deduction cap is a big deal.

So do I buy today and enjoy the existing mortgage interest rate deduction and property tax deduction or do I wait for the bill to pass, watch home prices drop, and then take the smaller $500K interest deduction and $10K max prop tax deduction? lol
39   BayArea   2017 Nov 2, 2:01pm  

The mortgage interest deduction is forward looking, not affecting existing homeowners.

"Grandfather-in" proposals like this new mortgage interest deduction is hand picking of winners and losers, wonderful.
40   BayArea   2017 Nov 2, 2:12pm  

WookieMan says
The way I understood it was that if you purchased a $501k shack in CA, you can't deduct the interest IF this tax proposal is signed.


No, it's up to $500K loan amount. So if you bought a house in CA for $626,250, put 20% down, and financed $501K, you would get the interest deduction up to the $500K loan amount.

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