Bitcoin and Crypto-currency
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Bitcoin and Crypto-currency

By BayArea following x   2017 Nov 5, 3:36pm 7,505 views   246 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


#investing

Hi guys,

I'd like to start a conversation on crypto-currency, particularly Bitcoin.

What do you all think about it from an investment point of view today? I have some buddies in the finance world who are quite bullish on it and claim we are just scratching the surface. Judging by the recent performance, they may be right.

For people who are investing in Bitcoin, what are you using to invest and what recommendations do you have for a new investor?

Also, how are gains taxed compared to typical stock market gains?

I read this week that over 100,000 merchants in the USA are accepting Bitcoin today.

At the same time, digital currency does scare me a bit as it seems so abstract. Curious what PatNet thinks.

Thanks guys!

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207   anon_eba5e   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 5, 4:04pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Keep buying those dips!
208   mell   ignore (1)   2018 Feb 5, 5:19pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Patrick says
Crypto currencies have a lot of value for people who don't like the idea that the government can confiscate all the money in a bank account at any time.

I have a friend who found this out during a dispute with the dmv. They simply confiscated the disputed amount from his checking account, and he had never even told them about the account. They can look it up by ssn.


That's true and why they are here to stay, but that doesn't make them worth $19k, likely not even $5k. Hard to say where it will eventually settle.
209   Satoshi_Nakamoto   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 5, 6:04pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

mell says
Crypto currencies have a lot of value for people who don't like the idea that the government can confiscate all the money in a bank account at any time.

I have a friend who found this out during a dispute with the dmv. They simply confiscated the disputed amount from his checking account, and he had never even told them about the account. They can look it up by ssn.


That's true and why they are here to stay, but that doesn't make them worth $19k, likely not even $5k. Hard to say where it will eventually settle.


Something like Tether, i.e. crypto coin which costs exactly $1 would be ideal for these people who want to be independent from the banking system but still able to transfer money electronically.
210   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 5, 7:14pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

It is $6,000+ today -dropped 1 grand just today-wow!~
211   anon_3a1a3   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 5, 7:19pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Wow, this will go down in history as one of the best buying opportunities. Big daddy Goes down to 5k or so and will end up at 60k in April!
212   Satoshi_Nakamoto   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 5, 7:29pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

anon_3a1a3 says
Wow, this will go down in history as one of the best buying opportunities. Big daddy Goes down to 5k or so and will end up at 60k in April!


Yep, all the smart cookies are liquidating their shares in stock market Ponzi scheme to be ready to go all in when BTC hits the sweet spot @ $5K.
213   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 5, 7:47pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Satoshi_Nakamoto says
Yep, all the smart cookies are liquidating their shares in stock market Ponzi scheme to be ready to go all in when BTC hits the sweet spot @ $5K.


I wonder if anyone bought at 20k and is holding?!!
214   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 5, 7:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Satoshi_Nakamoto says
BTC hits the sweet spot @ $5K.


Hits that number the bottom falls out IMHO. It's going to land in the $1,000-$2,500 range if I was betting on it, which I'm not. The amount of people losing money on the way down with this thinking it's going to bounce is staggering. The next few days should be interesting to say the least.
215   anon_eba5e   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 5, 10:34pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

The long term? bitcoin is going to $0.

As some point, the electricity will cost more than the profit from mining, and then it is basically finished.
216   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 5, 10:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

anon_eba5e says
The long term? bitcoin is going to $0.

As some point, the electricity will cost more than the profit from mining, and then it is basically finished.


There will still be profits to be made simply validating blocks in the blockchain even after all 21 million bitcoins are mined. It was planned that way from the beginning.
217   anon_3a1a3   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 10, 6:40pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Sweet, another buying opportunity is coming up. It’s like have Christmas every two weeks. While I am no longer confident we will get the 4-5k range for big daddy (I would go in hard) I think we will form a double bottom at the 6k range. When that happens the big buy signal is flashing hard. This baby will bounce so hard, I call 1.5 trillion market cap by the end of the year. Now that regulators are on board the floodgates are open. Remember Blood on the street means buy buy buy!
218   anon_3a1a3   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 11, 7:35am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

20k will look very cheap once BTC hits 100k

lostand confused says
Satoshi_Nakamoto says
Yep, all the smart cookies are liquidating their shares in stock market Ponzi scheme to be ready to go all in when BTC hits the sweet spot @ $5K.


I wonder if anyone bought at 20k and is holding?!!
219   CBOEtrader   ignore (1)   2018 Feb 11, 7:42am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

anon_3a1a3 says
20k will look very cheap once BTC hits 100k

lostand confused says
Satoshi_Nakamoto says
Yep, all the smart cookies are liquidating their shares in stock market Ponzi scheme to be ready to go all in when BTC hits the sweet spot @ $5K.


I wonder if anyone bought at 20k and is holding?!!


What about when it hits a bazillion?
220   anon_f70ca   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 11, 2:16pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

100k this year, 500k next year, after that, prob. A million.

US regulators/government loves bitcoin

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cointelegraph.com/news/us-arizona-senate-passes-bill-to-allow-tax-payments-in-bitcoin/amp
221   Satoshi_Nakamoto   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 11, 3:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

anon_f70ca says
100k this year, 500k next year, after that, prob. A million.



Yes! Mark this twit, bitchez!
222   anon_fad35   ignore (1)   2018 Feb 11, 9:32pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Wake me up when price goes back to $9k again.
223   anon_3a1a3   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 11, 11:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

First we go back down to 6k. We need that confirmation one more time. Big buy signal, volume will come in and from there it will be moooooning. Get ready for the fun!
224   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 13, 10:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

anon_fad35 says
Wake me up when price goes back to $9k again.


What do you mean by back? Hits $9k or goes above it? Basically hit that yesterday, about $90 short. What's your move when that happens? We really need to know when to wake you up so we can find out how you played BTC.
225   anon_3a1a3   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 14, 6:48am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Wookie, I am guessing he is referring to a point of resistance. This is about technical analysis/market sentiment. If resistance levels are broken they become support levels. 9k was a heavy point of resistance and breaking it is signaling a bullish trend. We need to bounce off the 9k a couple times to confirm the new support levels.
It’s fun to wake up and see your coins go up. It’s a great time to buy now before the next bull run starts.
226   anon_d8885   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 14, 3:51pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Oh yea, just broke 9400! Hope we start a bull run soon. If we can hold up above 9,5k the next few days we will probably see volume come back and kick off the next bull run
228   anon_8f5d0   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 15, 2:22pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Big daddy hit 10k again! Up and up we go!
229   anon_3a1a3   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 16, 8:02am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Got so quiet here. Where are all those bitcoin haters and perma crypto bears? “It’s going to zero!!! Sell now!!”
230   anon_3a1a3   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 16, 9:38am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/964287117466640389
Ellen DeGeneres introduces Bitcoin to millions of viewers. Thank you Ellen!
231   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 16, 10:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

anon_3a1a3 says
Got so quiet here. Where are all those bitcoin haters and perma crypto bears? “It’s going to zero!!! Sell now!!”


Still here. Markets do fluctuate. My opinion hasn't changed.
232   anon_2fbc3   ignore (1)   2018 Feb 16, 11:09am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Not going to recover so quick it simply has tested the 50% loss in MC and is likely to flip big time the fact it blew through 61.8 so hard shows very good odds of a min. test of 7500/61.8 and the weight of price possibly taking it much lower then the last low of 6k tgt 4500, 2350 +/-.... Don't FOMO into BTC you will regret it, BTC has to pay for all the broken promises and general inefficiencies price discovery has just begun and will expose...
234   anon_ec6de   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 16, 11:39am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

I think it’s very possible that it will
Go down hard one more timeduring this bear market/correction. I can’t see it testing less than 5-6k though. Too much demand. What ever happens, I am ready to buy more when it retraces.
235   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 16, 11:40am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

anon_2fbc3 says
Not going to recover so quick it simply has tested the 50% loss in MC and is likely to flip big time the fact it blew through 61.8 so hard shows very good odds of a min. test of 7500/61.8 and the weight of price possibly taking it much lower then the last low of 6k tgt 4500, 2350 +/-.... Don't FOMO into BTC you will regret it, BTC has to pay for all the broken promises and general inefficiencies price discovery has just begun and will expose...


Thanks for giving what appears to be a solid, intelligent response. I don't necessarily grasp all the jargon (I recognize it), but it make sense somewhat.

Now BTC bulls, give me something like this. IMO I haven't seen anyone explain why they think this will continue to go up. Tell me what if I buy one coin, with my American dollars at $10k today, it will be worth $15k in say 6 months?

The pinkies already exist. I don't see how BTC is much different. Just with a whole hell of a lot less info to research on it or know who holds it.

As usual, don't take this as investment advice. There is a risk of loss.
236   anon_ec6de   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 16, 12:31pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Why tell you? It’s more fun investing in BTC, buying the dip and seeing it moon while people tell you how it’s a Ponzi and goes to zero! Put your ten bucks in stocks and get excited about 2-5% increases!
237   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 16, 12:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      



Quite a bumpy ride.
238   anon_2fbc3   ignore (1)   2018 Feb 16, 1:44pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

WookieMan the main factor most seem to ignore is the well capitalized futures market full of fat cats who are staring at the 170bil setting there to be claimed, which before futures existed there was no practical or effective way to short so price discovery has been skewed big time.... Most of the crypto market is populated with very new ppl who have never traded anything except BTC which is OTC and the risk are penny stock like in nature. I am a believer in the tech however the noob pool needs cleaning they are so out of their league and the fat cats are not going to let them keep that easy money imo...
239   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 16, 2:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

anon_ec6de says
It’s more fun investing in BTC


Trading. It's called trading. Which is fine, make money. Explain the investment portion? I've always understood the trading aspect. Most people do.

anon_ec6de says
Put your ten bucks in stocks and get excited about 2-5% increases!


Try this:

$18,500 into a 401K individually (tax free. compounding.)

$6,900 into a HSA family plan (tax free. compounding & can pay for medical expenses tax free)

$5,500 into a Roth (if you can. tax free withdrawls at retirement)

If I didn't do the first two (can't do the 3rd) and invested in BTC instead, I'd be pissing away 33% immediately if you factor in my top end tax bracket for 2017. So I've already pissed and dumped shit all over the 2-5% gains you mention. That 33% gain is immediately invested along with the rest of the money. That money then compounds over time in a vehicle that has consistently put out 7% returns over the long term. And I don't have to waste time "watching" it until I'm near my retirement years unlike having to watch BTC daily at minimum.

Please explain how BTC will do better than this? You can't. It's not possible. Wish you luck in your trading.
240   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 16, 2:19pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

anon_2fbc3 says
I am a believer in the tech however the noob pool needs cleaning they are so out of their league and the fat cats are not going to let them keep that easy money imo...


I honestly don't understand the tech, so I'm showing my bias I suppose. I 100% believe there's massive manipulation in this market. I don't think anyone has the slightest clue who holds what and how much. Factor in the potential for the stolen coins (likely would be traded) or completely lost coins and it's the wild west. And yes, people made a shit load of money in the wild west.

I'm happy with my model for retirement. I have no interest in getting rich quick even though that sounds backward. I'm getting rich quicker than most, which is fine by me.
241   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 16, 7:39pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Nice note from one of your trusted BTC exchanges, Coinbase:

Dear Valued Customer,

Over the last two days, some customers who recently purchased digital currency with a Visa credit or debit card may have seen duplicate transactions posted to their cardholder accounts.

This issue was not caused by Coinbase. Please see our blog post for additional detail (also copied below).

Recommended steps to follow

Check your statement — Please check your bank statement to ensure that you have not received duplicate charges. If duplicate charges have appeared, your bank should automatically post a refund within the next few days
Contact your bank — If duplicate charges have not been refunded and/or if you have received other related charges (e.g., overdraft fees), please reach out to your bank to request that these charges be refunded
Contact Coinbase Support — If your bank fails to refund these charges, please follow up with Coinbase Support early next week

Though we did not initiate these charges, we are deeply sorry for any inconvenience or hardship this has caused.

Thank you for being a customer.

Regards,

The Coinbase Team

-------------

The following is a joint statement from Visa and Worldpay:

Over the last two days, some customers who used a credit or debit card at Coinbase may have seen duplicate transactions posted to their cardholder accounts.

This issue was not caused by Coinbase.

Worldpay and Coinbase have been working with Visa and Visa issuing banks to ensure that the duplicate transactions have been reversed and appropriate credits have been posted to cardholder accounts. All reversal transactions have now been issued, and should appear on customers’ credit card and debit card accounts within the next few days. We believe the majority of these reversals have already posted to accounts. If you continue to have problems with your credit or debit card account after this reversal period, including issues relating to card fees or charges, we encourage you to contact your card issuing bank.

We deeply regret any inconvenience this may have caused customers.


Yes, this bear has a coinbase account. Why no source link to Visa with their statement? Go to the blog, no link to Visa making a statement either? You trust these companies with your "investment?" I don't.
242   CBOEtrader   ignore (1)   2018 Feb 16, 8:42pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

WookieMan says
I have no interest in getting rich quick even though that sounds backward.


Sounds logical to me.

BTC is one helluva conundrum. It's backed by nothing, but neither is any currency.

The BTC technology would make it preferable to currencies, IF the risk problems could be fixed. However, the dollar would most likely need to die first.

This is a super high risk, potentially high reward gamble that I'm only willing to make for a few thousand $$ at a time.

Sink your retirement into this fiat currency at your own peril. I hope the guy who goes all in comes back and brags about his 100 million gain... I still can't "invest" in bitcoin.

I've been told investing in block chain tech firms may be a nice move though I haven't yet done research on any.
243   anon_e5361   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 16, 9:24pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Wookie,
“Please explain how BTC will do better than this? You can't. It's not possible. ”

You are comparing your 33% retirement thingy with crypto? That’s cute. Litecoin, ethereum and many other made over 7000% last year. That’s not just another planet it’s another universe. Of course I put money in my 401k and my company matches it. You can do both, save in your 401k and make a killing with crypto.
244   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 16, 9:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

I'm impressed with the thought put into the design of Bitcoin, and that it's truly outside of the control of any government. But I'm not sure if the market for conversion to/from dollars is being manipulated. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out it is.
245   anon_3a1a3   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 17, 6:59am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Wookie, the coinbase bashing is a bit silly. You can buy through gdax (part of coinbase) without paying fees. Nobody ever recommended to buy crypto on a debit or credit card. You can buy cryptos instantly by initiating a bank transfer through coinbase. I would say a minor noob percentage of traders would utilize a cc to buy cryptos. Every market has those people. While coinbase is not perfect it’s a legit exchange.
246   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 17, 10:51am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

anon_3a1a3 says
Wookie, the coinbase bashing is a bit silly. You can buy through gdax (part of coinbase) without paying fees.


Yeah, I didn’t buy anything. Just doing research. As I’ve mentioned multiple times here I know nothing about this stuff. Would NEVER put anything like this on a credit card. I don’t believe a lot of people here and elsewhere really know what they’re doing either outside of just trading this. I can make a lot of money at a casino, but wouldn’t call it investing, would you? Not sure how crypto is different.

Which again, go for it. I don’t care. I like casinos occasionally. We have comments here though pointing out 7,000% gains. Apparently this stuff just never goes down and I’m missing out on my consistent 7,000% gain per year. Not you particularly, but it’s astounding how irrational people can become about making easy money.

My question stands though, Coinbase blames it on Visa yet they wouldn’t source Visa saying it? Seems strange. I’d have zero faith in any of these “exchanges” but hey, your money, not mine.

Just let me know what you exchange your crypto for when you have massive gains. I’m sure you’ll just hold it and buy stuff, right? I mean it’s a currency and all. Very stable one at that. Please tell me you won’t convert them to US $’s? Cause if you do that, the fatal flaw of crypto is staring you right in the face. The rush to the exits is coming. Just be ready.

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