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Patrick....I have an idea.

By Strategist following x   2017 Nov 13, 6:55pm 6,360 views   62 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


#misc @patrick We all want some kind of a balance between uncivil posts and normal posts.
Suppose, the moderator, instead of making the post disappear, redirects it to a thread just for "insults and uncivil" posts. All responses to insults, which are inevitable, would simply end up in the "insults and uncivil" threads. This way, everyone gets what they want from the site, and no one gets discouraged from posting. If someone does not like the "insults and uncivil" thread, they never have to click it on. Those who want to read or respond, will have there say too.
A couple of refinements will be needed, but if the concept makes sense to you, lets work on it.

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1   Strategist   ignore (2)   2017 Nov 13, 7:09pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

anon_ef72f says
Strategist says
We all want some kind of a balance between uncivil posts and normal posts.


No, you(r ideas) don't. You(r ideas) only want to limit insults to the people you agree with. Stop (your ideas from) being such a lying liar.


How will my ideas limit insults to the people I agree with? How? I'm not even a moderator. Same rules would obviously apply to all, regardless of insults or opinions.
2   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 13, 7:11pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says
#misc @patrick We all want some kind of a balance between uncivil posts and normal posts.
Suppose, the moderator, instead of making the post disappear, redirects it to a thread just for "insults and uncivil" posts. All responses to insults, which are inevitable, would simply end up in the "insults and uncivil" threads. This way, everyone gets what they want from the site, and no one gets discouraged from posting. If someone does not like the "insults and uncivil" thread, they never have to click it on. Those who want to read or respond, will have there say too.
A couple of refinements will be needed, but if the concept makes sense to you, lets work on it.

I don't think your idea is bad. The problem lies in the #politics topic itself. There's going to be a flaw with ANYONE on this site currently moderating that topic the current way or with your suggestion. I know we're past the Thunderdome era, but just let it be what it's going to be at this point. People can use ignore and it works in much the same way as moderation considering the types of attacks and insults.

The anons are a problem, but if @Patrick goes back to the random word user names (winehorror) being used in place of anon, then that might help. Although I think most users are jumping to different IP's relatively easy, so that may not work either.

It's been roughly 5 days on housing and I'm driving the Tesla of moderation. Mind you there haven't been many new threads, but I felt a duty to look through the more recent threads and even in the more commented one's it stays pretty civil. I think politics is a unique thing and to try and have that moderated is a fools errand. I'm not giving up on moderation, but it's clearly not working in politics. And I don't think it can. Whoever moderates anything in that topic is instantly biased against whoever they moderate. It's a lose lose proposition for whoever is moderating and it seems like that's what the topic shifts to. Who's moderating and not the actual topic at hand.
3   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Nov 13, 7:13pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Somehow everyone was fine before moderation, other than occasional spam that needed deletion. Why this such an issue now? I don't get it.
4   Strategist   ignore (2)   2017 Nov 13, 7:22pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
Strategist says
#misc @patrick We all want some kind of a balance between uncivil posts and normal posts.
Suppose, the moderator, instead of making the post disappear, redirects it to a thread just for "insults and uncivil" posts. All responses to insults, which are inevitable, would simply end up in the "insults and uncivil" threads. This way, everyone gets what they want from the site, and no one gets discouraged from posting. If someone does not like the "insults and uncivil" thread, they never have to click it on. Those who want to read or respond, will have there say too.
A couple of refinements will be needed, but if the concept makes sense to you, lets work on it.

I don't think your idea is bad. The problem lies in the #politics topic itself. There's going to be a flaw with ANYONE on this site currently moderating that topic the current way or with your suggestion. I know we're past th...


Thanks for the input Wookieman. All opinions are important on this topic, because we all want this very interesting and fun site to thrive.
Lets collect all ideas, criticisms, opinions, desires, wants, etc etc and turn it into a "think tank" for everyone's benefit.
5   DASKAA   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 13, 7:23pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

anon_06961 says
Somehow everyone was fine before moderation, other than occasional spam that needed deletion.


There was also constant clamouring to delete this or that user from a certain group of people. So apparently not everything was fine for the said group.
6   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Nov 13, 7:54pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tin foil hats on.

I think the political discussion problem is not restricted to Patnet. Both the pubs and dems have embraced marketing at its worst. Instead of only crafting their own messages, they've started twisting their adversary's message. If you question immigration, you're racist. If you want to protect the weak, you're a communist. The messages are being embraced by their target audience and it's at the point that their is no common ground. The true tin-foil-hatter in me thinks that it's all irrelevant; the high and mighty want the average joes on both sides to fight amongst themselves while they guide us into our new lives as serfs.
7   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2017 Nov 13, 8:14pm   ↑ like (7)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Pat.net was doing fine until somebody became President and some posters lost their shit.

When people are butthurt, they get more butthurt easily. It's not unusual.

I simply ignore flounced anon users. Added 3 in 48 hours, maybe less. Butthurt people could ignore users they don't like.

With ignore, I don't see any reason why somebody would leave the forum over a poster or two.

People are peddling butthurt conspiracy theories because of butthurt, when you don't agree or call them out for the nutty, evidence-free BS it is, you're uncivil and a horrible person.

I still like a "reddit" style idea, with categories. Maybe 5 of the most popular threads, then the top 5 categories on the landing page.

I'm off to pee on some hookers before bed, nighty night all.
8   DASKAA   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 13, 8:17pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsMcGee says
With ignore, I don't see any reason why somebody would leave the forum over a poster or two.


Word.
9   Patrick   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 13, 8:27pm   ↑ like (7)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Everything is still OK for discussion, just don't attack the other users personally.

I should have imposed this rule years ago.
10   RC2006   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 13, 8:44pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Hey Patrick I shot you an email about my account could you respond to it not sure if its going to your junk mail or something,
11   mell   ignore (2)   2017 Nov 13, 8:45pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

anon_62240 says
Tin foil hats on.

I think the political discussion problem is not restricted to Patnet. Both the pubs and dems have embraced marketing at its worst. Instead of only crafting their own messages, they've started twisting their adversary's message. If you question immigration, you're racist. If you want to protect the weak, you're a communist. The messages are being embraced by their target audience and it's at the point that their is no common ground. The true tin-foil-hatter in me thinks that it's all irrelevant; the high and mighty want the average joes on both sides to fight amongst themselves while they guide us into our new lives as serfs.


Interesting thought, not out of the question.
12   HowdyThere   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 13, 8:57pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says
Interesting thought, not out of the question.


Visit other forums or MSM related chat rooms (just temporarily, come back here, right Pat) and you'll see a trend. I think we're being coralled.
13   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Nov 13, 9:01pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Everything is still OK for discussion, just don't attack the other users personally.

I should have imposed this rule years ago.


Lol ya think?
14   Patrick   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 13, 9:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

rpanic01 says
Hey Patrick I shot you an email about my account could you respond to it not sure if its going to your junk mail or something,


@rpanic01 I don't see it in regular mail or junk.

When did you send it?
15   Patrick   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 13, 9:27pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says
the high and mighty want the average joes on both sides to fight amongst themselves while they guide us into our new lives as serfs.


Absolutely.

We fight, and they run off with the ball.
16   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 13, 9:41pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (3)   quote   flag        

I never thought a simple rule directing people to “attack the point not the person” would cause so much turmoil.

Seems simple but maybe the discussions around here have gotten so vicious that it’s now the norm and those who don’t engage aggressively are the abnormal ones.

I swear though PatNet wasn’t like this back in the days when thomas1986 and others were still around (for people who were around then).
17   PeopleUnited   ignore (2)   2017 Nov 13, 9:41pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
mell says
the high and mighty want the average joes on both sides to fight amongst themselves while they guide us into our new lives as serfs.


Absolutely.

We fight, and they run off with the ball.


This is why Patnet is more relevant than ever. Patrick, you have a place where "they" don't control the narrative. Nearly every other media outlet has conformed to the will of the elites. But here everyone has a voice, even those we disagree with (as long as they can express their views in a civil fashion).
18   Patrick   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 13, 9:46pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
I swear though PatNet wasn’t like this back in the days when thomas1986 and others were still around (for people who were around then).


I think it's because I was a Nazi about deleting flame war comments back then.

Really. Seems like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory is true.

Grateful to have moderator help in deleting all the personal attacks.
19   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (4)   2017 Nov 13, 10:04pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Goran_K says
I swear though PatNet wasn’t like this back in the days when thomas1986 and others were still around (for people who were around then).


I think it's because I was a Nazi about deleting flame war comments back then.

Really. Seems like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory is true.

Grateful to have moderator help in deleting all the personal attacks.


It was a bloodbath for Thomas and Bap. I don’t even know how those guys could deal with it as they were outnumbered in any thread by 20 to 1. I stayed out of the politics forum here for years.
20   mell   ignore (2)   2017 Nov 13, 10:50pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Fucking White Male says

It was a bloodbath for Thomas and Bap. I don’t even know how those guys could deal with it as they were outnumbered in any thread by 20 to 1. I stayed out of the politics forum here for years.


Yeah I remember that. Talk about a site for "right-wingers" - NOT! That was some outright brutal reception they received, indeed.
21   HEY YOU   ignore (7)   2017 Nov 13, 11:00pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

"idea"!
That's a first for patnet.
22   Strategist   ignore (2)   2017 Nov 14, 8:15am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Sniper says

Very true. Go read any article on any news or financial sites that allow comments. You'll see the comments immediately dive into tribal battles, the actual info in the article is rarely discussed. Meanwhile, DC continues it's rape and pillage of all Americans, and no one is paying attention.


And it will never change. Why fight the tide? Just go with it.
23   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Nov 14, 10:08am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

Since when does Patrick.net have any need for being SFW?

You can’t be working and posting/reading Patnet simultaneously. Unless your job is to troll Patnet.

As an American that values the Economy, the last thing we need is to enable people to be avoiding their work at their job, to post on Patnet.

Get back to work if you’re at work

Or better yet, man up and make something of yourself so you’re not subject to censorship from your boss
24   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2017 Nov 14, 10:09am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

errc says


You view a personal attack on yourself as uncivil

Because it is.
errc says
if someone you view as being on your team, attacking someone who you view as on an opposing team, then you allow it to remain.

YOU have the power to mark uncivil and then patnet can become a place where people can share and debate ideas.
25   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 14, 10:12am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

errc says
Since when does Patrick.net have any need for being SFW?


Good question.

Start a thread under #misc or #patnet and tag Patrick. If Patrick decides NSFW is not important then that's what it will be. It would limit my time being able to hang out on PatNet though to off hours.
26   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2017 Nov 14, 10:25am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
The truth is

pretty much exactly as justme summarized it.


Goran_K says
He was abusing his moderating ability right out of the gate.
He didn't abuse his moderating ability (sic). He posted a comment in the wrong category, so that he could avoid you as a moderator. That didn't rely on his moderating powers, because any poster could do it. Although he disagreed with your categorization of a picture, I recall that he clearly stated repeatedly that you were unfit as a moderator for other reasons. I'll take you at your word that you are trying to be honest and represent what happened accurately. But if that is the case, it seems to me that your ego is preventing you from seeing the situation clearly.
27   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2017 Nov 14, 10:47am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
Your ego and bias is preventing you from admitting that he basically attempted to circumvent the site's rules and moderation

No it is not. I admitted that he was trying to circumvent the site's moderation - namely your moderation. In fact, if you go back to the original thread, you will see that I was the first person to call him out on it. I stated that he was not abusing his moderator power, which I think is what you meant when you wrote 'moderation ability'. Now, you are mis-characterizing what I wrote. Do you even see the difference?
28   tovarichpeter   ignore (2)   2017 Nov 14, 12:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Very good idea.
29   jazz_music   ignore (6)   2017 Nov 14, 6:54pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

anon_62240 says
it's all irrelevant; the high and mighty want the average joes on both sides to fight amongst themselves while they guide us into our new lives as serfs.

You all seem to be in general agreement with this notion.

The whole game, our loss of republic, was laid out in detail recently right here on patrick.net and it didn't get much notice. There's even various proposed solutions to regain our republic.

It was a good link with credit to Heraclitussstudent, not one to polarize using dirty tactics to end discussions either:
http://patrick.net/post/1311802/2017-11-09-podcast-how-money-corrupts-congress-and-a-plan-to-stop-it
I recommend not only talking about it, but memorizing as much of it as you can.

Here's another link to talk about and memorize as much of it as you can.
CONVERSATIONAL TERRORISM
http://vandruff.com/art_converse.html
30   Strategist   ignore (2)   2017 Nov 14, 9:20pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

jazz_music says
anon_62240 says
it's all irrelevant; the high and mighty want the average joes on both sides to fight amongst themselves while they guide us into our new lives as serfs.

You all seem to be in general agreement with this notion.

This is Panet, not the mental ward.

jazz_music says
The whole game, our loss of republic, was laid out in detail recently right here on patrick.net and it didn't get much notice. There's even various proposed solutions to regain our republic.

He he he he he he. OK...How do we get back the republic we never lost?
31   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2017 Nov 14, 9:42pm   ↑ like (5)   ↓ dislike (4)   quote   flag        

Strategist says
This is Panet, not the mental ward.


Really? It's hard to tell based on some of the posts here.
32   Strategist   ignore (2)   2017 Nov 14, 9:45pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Sniper says
Strategist says
This is Panet, not the mental ward.


Really? It's hard to tell based on some of the posts here.


I really put my foot in my mouth there, didn't I?
33   NewOldUser   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 15, 12:32am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (5)   quote   flag        

Goran is doing a fine job. When the Left loses, they turn to censorship. Didn't work here, because Patrick knows better.
34   jazz_music   ignore (6)   2017 Nov 15, 10:41am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (3)   quote   flag        

Strategist says
He he he he he he. OK...How do we get back the republic we never lost?


Your question makes no sense but contains an awful lot of "He he he he he he."

You should listen to Heraclitusstudent's link, there are some illustrative graphics too
http://patrick.net/post/1311802/2017-11-09-podcast-how-money-corrupts-congress-and-a-plan-to-stop-it
I recommend not only talking about it, but memorizing as much of it as you can.
35   Strategist   ignore (2)   2017 Nov 15, 7:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

jazz_music says
Strategist says
He he he he he he. OK...How do we get back the republic we never lost?


Your question makes no sense but contains an awful lot of "He he he he he he."

You should listen to Heraclitusstudent's link, there are some illustrative graphics too
http://patrick.net/post/1311802/2017-11-09-podcast-how-money-corrupts-congress-and-a-plan-to-stop-it
I recommend not only talking about it, but memorizing as much of it as you can.


Corruption is like cockroaches and prostitution. You can never get rid of it.
Socialist countries have a lot more corruption, because the power rests in the hands of very few individuals. You think Maduro, Kim Jong Un, and Castro live as equals to their citizens?
36   Patrick   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 15, 8:24pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says
Socialist countries have a lot more corruption, because the power rests in the hands of very few individuals.


True, but it's also true that we are getting more corruption of our political system here as more power is concentrated into the hands of our oligarchs.

They can simply buy our laws with campaign donations and lobbying, and use those laws to ensure that there is no challenge to their near-monopolies.

Cash flows in, cash is used to buy lawmakers, lawmakers divide us with bullshit identity politics and quietly pass laws which ensure the cash keeps flowing to the oligarchs. Rinse and repeat. Forever.
37   Strategist   ignore (2)   2017 Nov 15, 8:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Strategist says
Socialist countries have a lot more corruption, because the power rests in the hands of very few individuals.


True, but it's also true that we are getting more corruption of our political system here as more power is concentrated into the hands of our oligarchs.

They can simply buy our laws with campaign donations and lobbying, and use those laws to ensure that there is no challenge to their near-monopolies.


I cannot disagree. This is why we have corruption. It's still less corruption than socialism/communism where they have very few people in power.
In our case, we have a solution.....campaign finance reforms, lobbying, changes in law etc.
We have the means to make the right changes. We need to strive it.
38   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2017 Nov 15, 9:47pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
They can simply buy our laws with campaign donations and lobbying, and use those laws to ensure that there is no challenge to their near-monopolies.

Cash flows in, cash is used to buy lawmakers, lawmakers divide us with bullshit identity politics and quietly pass laws which ensure the cash keeps flowing to the oligarchs.


39   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Nov 16, 6:29am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Strategist says
Socialist countries have a lot more corruption, because the power rests in the hands of very few individuals.


True, but it's also true that we are getting more corruption of our political system here as more power is concentrated into the hands of our oligarchs.

They can simply buy our laws with campaign donations and lobbying, and use those laws to ensure that there is no challenge to their near-monopolies.

Cash flows in, cash is used to buy lawmakers, lawmakers divide us with bullshit identity politics and quietly pass laws which ensure the cash keeps flowing to the oligarchs. Rinse and repeat. Forever.


.....and you voted for the biggest oligarch there is, whose lust for illegal power is his only guiding principle. smh. he thinks the DOJ should harass anyone who doesn't admire the length of his fingers. if someone laughs at one of his cronies they get investigated and sued. he sends his brain-challenged children as ambassadors and representatives to other countries.....and you think that's not all pure evidence of corruption and plutocracy? a man who won't release his tax returns? wow, you really guzzled the authoritarian koolaid.
40   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Nov 16, 7:44am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
True, but it's also true that we are getting more corruption of our political system here as more power is concentrated into the hands of our oligarchs.


If money = power and we give a tax break that favors the wealthy (oligarchs). Aren't we just giving the oligarchs more power? Still further adding to the corruption. If Trump wanted to make America great he would make tax law that taxes the rich wealthy oligarchs and takes a "chunk" of their wealth when they pass on to the other side.

You don't extinguisher the power of oligarchs by giving them a tax break.

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