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Patnet and censorship: Performance Art?

By justme following x   2017 Nov 14, 11:22am 300 views   20 comments   watch   quote     share  


I wonder if @Patrick has just staged a piece of censorship Performance Art by instituting omnipotent censorship, under the guise of "moderation", and crowd-sourced mass-silencing (encouraging the use of the "uncivil" button) on patrick.net. The aforementioned scheme of blog control is so far removed from Patrick's former free-speech self that I am starting to wonder. Perhaps this is just an exercise in showing what happens when you give absolute power over some domain of life to ONE semi-random person, even one that otherwise professes to love liberty and freedom?

It is more than a little ironic (but should not be surprising to any serious student of human nature) that right-wingers appear to be every bit as eager to censor their opponents as they have recently been accusing the left-wingers of being. And by that I mean the last several years of talk about liberals and their desire for "safe spaces" on and off university campuses, calling them "special snowflakes", and so on.

Well, the right-wing has in recent days been out in force on Patnet, trying to enforce a "safe space" , free of "uncivility" and "NSFW" material, and acting like special snowflakes themselves. And boy, are these right-wing special snowflakes melting down Patnet in a volcanic eruption of censorship actions.

The famous 1960s psychological experiment known as the Stanford Prisoner Project comes to mind as an analogy of sorts. That experiment showed what happens when you give authority for random people to control other random people. What soon happened was not pretty. Read up on it if you want.

Finally, I will revisit and highlight a suggestion I have made several times this year:

What I would like to see is to have free speech, and at the same time avoid massive storms of low-quality comments. For a blog, I think that means to make threads and comments a limited commodity for all posters. Specifically, to limit the number of threads that a user can post on any given day to 1 or 2, and to limit how many comments every user can post on every thread to 10, or 10% of the total number of comments on the thread, whichever is larger.

The purpose of moderation should not be to censor certain forms of expression, but rather to make everyone's time (or space) on the proverbial soapbox a valuable commodity. That way, users are more likely to spend their posting currency wisely. Users who wastes their currency by posting low-quality drivel will lose esteem, or at the very least not be able to dominate the discussion based on volume posted only.

Think of it as rules of order, a very lightweight and blog-adapted version of Robert's rules of order. (By the way, a quite well-known now former pat-netter just mentioned Robert's rules just days ago, and is hereby recognized.)

PS: I very well understand the meta-question as to whether the impact of a blog, as measured by commercial value or informative value, or even political/propaganda value(!), is reduced when the number of threads or comments are somewhat limited. I think many people may think so, perhaps even Patrick himself. Personally, I will take quality over quantity any day.

#misc
1 YesYNot   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 14, 11:52am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

It's an interesting concept. I think it is all much more innocent than that. My take is that Patrick just wants to have some moderators, because he didn't want to have to do it himself. There were not many offers. Goran may have been the only one, so he accepted. Goran is probably actually doing his best, but does not seem very self aware to me.
For what it's worth, I like your idea regarding post limits. Any experiment in 'free speech' would rely on free market type rules as you suggest. But, it seems that the decision has been made.
2 justme   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 12:01pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

YesYNot says
My take is that Patrick just wants to have some moderators, because he didn't want to have to do it himself.


Quite possible. And what could be easier than automatic moderation of the RATE of postings, be it threads or comments :-)
3 Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 12:06pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

YesYNot says
It's an interesting concept. I think it is all much more innocent than that. My take is that Patrick just wants to have some moderators, because he didn't want to have to do it himself.


Yes, that's all there is to it. All I want is to get rid of the personal attacks, and I don't have time to do it all myself.

Any political opinion, no matter how odious, it's still very welcome. I would like to debate those opinions and not simply attack the person holding them.

I'm grateful to Goran for the help.
4 justme   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 1:01pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Patrick says
All I want is to get rid of the personal attacks, and I don't have time to do it all myself.


The problem is that any statement of opinion about another person can be construed as a "personal attack". I got censored (banned for 24 hours on a thread, then jailed) because I made the statement

>>Goran_K is completely unqualified to be the moderator of anything.

The above shows how a unitary moderator and crowd-sourced "uncivility" prosecution works in practice, and also shows why I think Goran_K is unqualified. In fact I got banned by Goran_K for making the statement that he was unqualifed, and then I got jailed by the crowd/mob for writing that the ban proved my point. Patnet cannot function well under this type of censorship regime.
5 Sniper   ignore (8)   2017 Nov 14, 1:04pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (3)     quote        

justme says
>>Goran_K is completely unqualified to be the moderator of anything.


The bigger question, who are you to make that blanket determination?

justme says
Patnet cannot function well under this type of censorship regime.


When posters make a blanket statement like you did, that's correct.

Why does the forum have to operate around your version of the 1st amendment and censorship?
6 errc   ignore (2)   2017 Nov 14, 1:08pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

The ultimate irony is that when Patrick made an attempt to clean up the forum and rid it of ad hominem attacks, the right wingers were all up in arms whinging about muh Free Speech!!

Yet once a Right Wing friendly mod is assigned with censoring political posts, none of them made a peep. How pathetically sad
7 justme   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 1:13pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Patrick says
Any political opinion, no matter how odious, it's still very welcome.


My opinion of Goran_K is a political opinion, and it isn't even terribly odious, if you ask me. But it proved that Goran_K would rather censor me than having his moderational prowess questioned.
8 Sniper   ignore (8)   2017 Nov 14, 1:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote        

errc says
The ultimate irony is that when Patrick made an attempt to clean up the forum and rid it of ad hominem attacks, the right wingers were all up in arms whinging about muh Free Speech!!

Yet once a Right Wing friendly mod is assigned with censoring political posts, none of them made a peep. How pathetically sad


You know, you're free to go off and start your own forum and moderate it the way you want. You can call it:

errc.net

Then, you can invite all your special friends over to post all the left wing radical liberal posts they want.

Why don't you go do that? It will be great.
9 YesYNot   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 14, 1:30pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

IMO, if someone wants to be a moderator, then discussion of their abilities to think, interpret, and write clearly is open game, as long as the discussion is honest. It has an impact on their abilities to moderate. OTOH, it will probably be best to just let it go. Goran hasn't zapped anything I've written that I know of. Maybe he's adjusting.
10 errc   ignore (2)   2017 Nov 14, 1:35pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Sniper says
errc says
The ultimate irony is that when Patrick made an attempt to clean up the forum and rid it of ad hominem attacks, the right wingers were all up in arms whinging about muh Free Speech!!

Yet once a Right Wing friendly mod is assigned with censoring political posts, none of them made a peep. How pathetically sad


You know, you're free to go off and start your own forum and moderate it the way you want. You can call it:

errc.net

Then, you can invite all your special friends over to post all the left wing radical liberal posts they want.

Why don't you go do that? It will be great.


I’m not in search of left wing liberal posts.

I’m just willing to put up a little fight to Make Patrick.net Great Again.

How about you respect Patrick’s wishes and leave his site? Why did you return after being banned?

You realize that all of these efforts to return to civility is a reaction to you specifically, after you trashed his forum for years with personal attacks and disrupting honest discussion?
11 justme   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 1:40pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

I have sniper on ignore. He is the only one at the moment, I think. But I see indirectly that he is sniping around this thread.
12 Graybox   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 14, 1:46pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

The daily posters both L/R are so focused on who next they can attack the tree is invisible. To bad you all don't take a month off and then come back with new perspective and perhaps new ppl to attack. This site is conditioned as is and there is no fix..... This is as good as it gets boys and girls....
13 YesYNot   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 14, 1:46pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

justme says
I have sniper on ignore.
That's wise.
14 Goran_K   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 14, 1:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (4)     quote        

Graybox says
The daily posters both L/R are so focused on who next they can attack the tree is invisible. To bad you all don't take a month off and then come back with new perspective and perhaps new ppl to attack. This site is conditioned as is and there is no fix..... This is as good as it gets boys and girls....


I disagree. People who come here to troll/attack and in general just cause trouble won't be here for much longer, and the bans will start getting dished out. I've already noticed that some threads are a little bit more civil, but with a lot less volume. Civility will improve and I've never cared much about volume. I think too much volume from certain posters may have actually caused the membership to stagnate for a few years.
15 APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE   ignore (5)   2017 Nov 14, 1:59pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Poobah Pat oppresses me all the time.

It is the price of FREE!dom.
16 Graybox   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 14, 2:08pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Goran_K lol.... Patrick wants Volume you may not care about it however the conditioning I mention will make sure "you" get your wish low volume. Patnet had its day and now just critical mass keyboard verbal war mongers and he can continue down this dead end road as long as he wishes and the only change that will take place is more people not giving 2cents to be a part of this endless mess....
17 Goran_K   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 14, 2:13pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (4)     quote        

Graybox says
Goran_K lol.... Patrick wants Volume you may not care about it however the conditioning I mention will make sure "you" get your wish low volume. Patnet had its day and now just critical mass keyboard verbal war mongers and he can continue down this dead end road as long as he wishes and the only change that will take place is more people not giving 2cents to be a part of this endless mess....


Maybe you're right but we're trying to clean things up. I don't remember the site being so vicious before. But it's gotten this way over the years. Kind of sad actually.
18 Graybox   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 14, 2:36pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Goran_K says
I don't remember the site being so vicious before. But it's gotten this way over the years. Kind of sad actually.
So many self important and self absorbed keyboard war mongers who feel no responsibility to put themselves in check on this site to improve the whole, giving just about zero probability this site will grow in the way we all wish it would all that seems to happen is they look for a loophole to shoot the people they hate, they even do it in the post of efforts to improve things. Basically this conditioning has alienated 1/2 the population females it's way to full of continued hateful speech. I actually enjoy many comments even yours ;) but it's hard work to find the jewels of concept instead most all that can be found is somebody shoving their opinions down someones throat adding all the insults imaginable they can.... Iwog being 1 of the worst offenders and example imo. Healthy debate is best put on the table allowing others to take and leave what they wish not forcing and making them eat some shit concept they don't agree with....
19 Sniper   ignore (8)   2017 Nov 14, 2:52pm   ↑ like (5)   ↓ dislike (3)     quote        

errc says
You realize that all of these efforts to return to civility is a reaction


It's a reaction?? Are you saying you can't help and stop yourself from attacking all the other posters here? You've been on a tear for the last 6 days.

Why can't you stop being uncivil?

Here's a novel concept, why not set an example and become extremely civil in all your posts and lead by example.

Or, you can live in the past and chase some sort of past boogieman member that's not even listed in the Users list. Do you want to live in the past or move forward to the future?
20 justme   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 14, 2:58pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says
It is the price of FREE!dom.


BELTFED CENSORSHIP is the price of freedom!!! (Yes, /SARC)

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