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If Saudi Arabia Reforms....

By Heraclitusstudent following x   2017 Nov 16, 11:09am 3,310 views   27 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/16/opinion/saudi-arabia-reform-islamists.html
"It took the West being heavily hit by Islamist terrorism for it to appreciate fully the measure of this menace, long camouflaged. Indeed, even as Saudi leaders were shaking hands and smiling at their Western counterparts, they were hosting preachers advocating jihad to the hundreds of thousands of people gathered in Mecca for the annual pilgrimage. Today, everyone sees through the facade better."

>See through the facade? WAT? You mean, this is not a religion of peace?
#religion
1   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2017 Nov 16, 11:14am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

King Salman is stepping down for reformer Crown Prince Muhammed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5089229/Saudi-Arabia-king-set-hand-crown-son.html
The pledge made over the Orb of Cofeve continues to bear fruit.
2   Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 16, 12:28pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Heraclitusstudent says
"It took the West being heavily hit by Islamist terrorism for it to appreciate fully the measure of this menace, long camouflaged. Indeed, even as Saudi leaders were shaking hands and smiling at their Western counterparts, they were hosting preachers advocating jihad to the hundreds of thousands of people gathered in Mecca for the annual pilgrimage. Today, everyone sees through the facade better."

>See through the facade? WAT? You mean, this is not a religion of peace?


I'm hopeful the changes are real. Trump seems convinced they are real. I'll go with him.
3   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 5, 1:30pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Crowd Prince Mohammed bin Sultan visits Orthodox Church in Cairo. First time in history a Saudi met with a Coptic Patriarch.

https://aawsat.com/english/home/article/1194956/saudi-crown-prince-visits-coptic-orthodox-church-cairo

The Times, they are a changin'.
4   DASKAA   ignore (3)   2018 Mar 5, 1:39pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Heraclitusstudent says
Today, everyone sees through the facade better."

>See through the facade? WAT? You mean, this is not a religion of peace?


Apparently NYT has been hacked.
5   HEYYOU   ignore (16)   2018 Mar 5, 1:51pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Saudi Wahhabi Muslims spreading the word. "We kill you!"
Why haven't Trump /Republicans destroyed Saudi Arabia for 9/11?
They hate America and love sucking Saudi Dick?
6   HEYYOU   ignore (16)   2018 Mar 5, 1:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rep/Cons rolling those two orbs around their mouths.
7   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 5, 7:19pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsPlissken says
reformer Crown Prince Muhammed.


Stripping all your potential rivals of power then shake them down for billions of dollars is not usually considered reform. ROFLOL.

When will madras terrorist training schools and radical Iman terrorist recruiters around the world be shut down? When will cash stop fire hosing out of ksa to terrorist organizations around the world. hahahahahaha.
8   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 5, 8:19pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
Stripping all your potential rivals of power then shake them down for billions of dollars is not usually considered reform. ROFLOL.


I have some nice content about Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal and Obama and Citigroup I'll share sometime.

I wonder why Obama and Bush and Clinton never seemed to put the pressure on Saudi Arabia. Indeed their chief lieutenants seemed to always land jobs at Saudi funded institutions and chairs in between Public Post Appointments.

Interesting that the reforms waited for Trump, eh? And that the loud organs of paid Saudi Defenders have seemed to have clammed up recently other than to snipe at the new regime. It takes money to fund Scholars for Dollars, and the old Wahabi Guard doesn't control the distribution anymore.
9   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 5, 8:35pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
Stripping all your potential rivals of power then shake them down for billions of dollars is not usually considered reform. ROFLOL.

When in Saudi, do as Saudis do. They make and lose money the Saudi way. Who cares.

bob2356 says
When will madras terrorist training schools and radical Iman terrorist recruiters around the world be shut down? When will cash stop fire hosing out of ksa to terrorist organizations around the world. hahahahahaha.

Simple....We get Sunnis and Shiites to kill each other. You need to trust our puppets in the Middle East now that Trump is President.
10   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 5, 8:37pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

We have one simple goal.......the end of Islam.
11   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 5, 8:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
Stripping all your potential rivals of power then shake them down for billions of dollars is not usually considered reform. ROFLOL.

Actually, it's called a "Transfer of Power" in non-democratic countries. Transfers of Power to You and Your Guys is a necessary precondition before any Transformations are possible.
12   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 6, 10:50am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

?TwoScoopsPlissken says
Actually, it's called a "Transfer of Power" in non-democratic countries. Transfers of Power to You and Your Guys is a necessary precondition before any Transformations are possible.


Sure right, Do you actually believe that steaming pile of male bovine feces or are you just trolling? Transformations happen just about zero percent of the time after transfer of power in non democratic countries. But it's different this time because why? Because some new dictator on the block says it's true? it's tue it's tue hahahahahahaha

.


I'm sorry I somehow missed the answer to the question of when the suadi's will be shutting down their world wide operations of recruiting, training, and financing terrorists. The twelve of never perhaps?
13   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 6, 10:54am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
I'm sorry I somehow missed the answer to the question of when the suadi's will be shutting down their world wide operations of recruiting, training, and financing terrorists. The twelve of never perhaps?


We see Iran as a bigger threat than Saudi. Let them kill each other.
14   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 6, 11:14am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
Sure right, Do you actually believe that steaming pile of male bovine feces or are you just trolling? Transformations happen just about zero percent of the time after transfer of power in non democratic countries. But it's different this time because why? Because some new dictator on the block says it's true? it's tue it's tue hahahahahahaha


So many failed, couped South American Liberal-Left Presidents lay a-mouldin' in the grave, because they believed Power wasn't necessary to complete Transformations. Then the Army Officers showed up with Submachine Guns in their office. They were warned by friendly Officers in advance, but refused to use power to defend themselves.

Saudi Arabia has made pronouncements that nobody (including myself) would have believed 2 years ago.

Saudi Arabia's Old Guard definitely was funding Scholars for Dollars and influencing the Media. How do I know? 2+ years ago, Saudi Arabia was treated with kid gloves, praised, and any and all criticism in Mainstream Media was very very soft.

Now that they are actually DOING something than vague promises given only to Western Media with noncommittal timelines, we're getting women driving (with timeline), movie theaters opening, open denouncements of Wahabism on Television by the Top leadership, etc. ...

all of a sudden the Media is "Concerned" about "Human Rights" in Saudi Arabia.
15   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 6, 2:35pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Getting the hell out of Yemen would be a nice start.


Why, Obama Sec of State John Kerry said the Houthis are definitely funded by Iran and are terrorists.



Feux Follets says
Makes great P.R. and news bites but lets be patient with the celebration until some serious reform shows up.


Exactly what I mean. Before 2016, the criticism of Saudi Arabia was "Oh, but it's so hard to reform, so many religious fanatics among the populace, the great wise leaders of Saudi Arabia will have to go really slow, very dangerous, can't destabilize Saudi Arabia it will hurt the Great Middle East"

Now that shit is finally happening "Well, this isn't a big deal... Too Slow... leave my great sponsor Al-Aweed bin Talal alonnnnnnnne"
16   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 6, 4:36pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Strategist says
We see Iran as a bigger threat than Saudi.


Unfortunately that is a flawed perception when we would be much better off aligning ourselves with Iran but not enough oil in Iran I suppose.


Why do you think we are better off aligning ourselves with Iran? Besides, what makes you think Iran wants to align with us?
17   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 6, 4:42pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says

Interesting times - I have a contact on the ground in Saudi so I can check in from time to time to check the progress.


A contact on the ground? James Bond? Anecdotal evidence from someone who could be working in a shoe store may not be the best master spy out there.
18   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 12, 9:06am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The media hid this from you:

Dr. Mohammad Alissa, Secretary General, Muslim World League, and the President of the International Organization of Muslim Scholars condemned Holocaust Denial.

This is the first time in the history of the Riyadh-based organization where the Holocaust was officially recognized, much less condemned.

The statement had come against a backdrop of sweeping reforms in Saudi Arabia, which include a re-energized crackdown on hate speech and a pledge by the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman to “destroy extremism and return to moderate Islam.”

Commenting on this, Rabbi Pinchas says he "wishes Prince Mohammed much success in his quest to define radicalism and bring back reason, moderation and peace to the Middle East.”


https://english.alarabiya.net/en/features/2018/03/04/Top-European-rabbi-praises-refreshing-Saudi-remarks-on-Holocaust-.html

More evidence the Reformation is on. And the Media wants to hide it.
19   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 12, 9:11pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Strategist says
Why do you think we are better off aligning ourselves with Iran? Besides, what makes you think Iran wants to align with us?


No shortage of analysis on the web covering both questions. The House of Saud is not our friend, never was, never will be - ever.

They are more than willing to fight any war any time with any of their enemies as long as it is someone's else blood that is getting spilled and preferably ours since they are inept handlers of the latest military technology and they buy a ton of that shit from us.


You are still not answering my question. Saudis are scum, but so is Iran. Them hating each other is the best thing that ever happened to us.
20   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 12, 9:19pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
No shortage of analysis on the web covering both questions. The House of Saud is not our friend, never was, never will be - ever.


Interesting. 2 years ago, the Media was talking about how it was reform any day now and we had to go easy on the Saudis.

Now that they are actually reforming, the Media suddenly hates their guts. I promise a Good Read soon, I have to dig it up. It explains why the Media suddenly "Turned" on the Sauds after years of barely the most whispered gentle reproach at best.
Strategist says
You are still not answering my question. Saudis are scum, but so is Iran. Them hating each other is the best thing that ever happened to us.


Iran is next. And it's going to be very big and happen very, very quickly. Believe me.

The Wahabis and the Mullahs have blown their load, from here on out it's all downhill - not that there won't be another attack, even a bad one - but their influence is waning rapidly.

Hint: Perfect is the enemy of the Good, and notice the progress we're making with a huge chunk of the State Department left vacant. Those who wish to meddle must constantly adjust and switch from one group to another to keep the precise right balance. Those who are happy with some progress, with order and stability, don't have to be so finicky and actually wind up the loose ends.
21   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 12, 9:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Teaser: Somebody hates Trump more than Anybody. He also owned a lot of Citigroup. He also was a big donor to the previous President, though their relationship was tested late in Obama's regime. He was also recently arrested and stripped of much of his wealth and influence.

Do you think Trump was dicking around when he beheld the Orb of Covfefe, the Magic Silmarion, with the King of Saudi Arabia?

They talked about the King's chosen heir, working together on mutual enemies, and did a lot of horse trading. A lot of it. Much of it was arranged in advance, hence the welcome
to POTUS worthy of a Roman Emperor.

Hezbollah is about to get the shit kicked out of it. The other Iranian proxy in Yemen is doing far worse than advertised; only an influx of Obama Cash Pallets have kept Iranian influence afloat, their economy is circling the drain, and the public wants change.
22   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (33)   2018 Mar 13, 6:45am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

If Saudi chicks aren't nude, oiled, armed and mobile, they're slaves.
23   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (33)   2018 Mar 13, 6:46am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Once Stormy Daniels is appointed Secretary of State, we'll get all this cleaned up.
24   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 19, 6:26pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Norah O'Donnell: When many Americans think about Saudi Arabia, they think about Osama bin Laden and 9/11. They think about the terrorism that he brought to American soil.

Mohammed bin Salman: Right. Osama bin Laden recruited 15 Saudis in the 9/11 attacks with a clear objective. According to the CIA documents and Congressional investigations, Osama bin Laden wanted to create a schism between the Middle East and the West, between Saudi Arabia and the United States of America.
...
Norah O'Donnell: There is a widespread perception that the kind of Islam practiced inside Arabia is harsh, it's strict, it's intolerant. Is there any truth to that?

Mohammed bin Salman: After 1979, that's true. We were victims, especially my generation that suffered from this a great deal.

The crown prince traces most of Saudi Arabia's problems to the year 1979, when the Ayatollah Khomeini established an Islamic theocracy next door in Iran. The same year, religious extremists in Saudi Arabia took over Islam's holiest site, the Grand Mosque in Mecca. In order to appease their own religious radicals, the Saudis began clamping down and segregating women from everyday life.


Norah O'Donnell: What has been this Saudi Arabia for the past 40 years? Is that the real Saudi Arabia?

Mohammed bin Salman: Absolutely not. This is not the real Saudi Arabia. I would ask your viewers to use their smartphones to find out. And they can google Saudi Arabia in the 70s and 60s, and they will see the real Saudi Arabia easily in the pictures.

Norah O'Donnell: What was Saudi Arabia like before 1979?

Mohammed bin Salman: We were living a very normal life like the rest of the Gulf countries. Women were driving cars. There were movie theaters in Saudi Arabia. Women worked everywhere. We were just normal people developing like any other country in the world until the events of 1979.

Saudi women -- who've been virtually invisible in public -- have been given new rights, making it easier for them to start a business, join the military, and attend concerts and sporting events. In June, they will be able to get behind the wheel and drive.

Norah O'Donnell: Are women equal to men?

Mohammed bin Salman: Absolutely. We are all human beings and there is no difference.

Norah O'Donnell: You have said you are, "Taking Saudi Arabia back to what we were, a moderate Islam." What does that mean?

Mohammed bin Salman: We have extremists who forbid mixing between the two sexes and are unable to differentiate between a man and a woman alone together and their being together in a workplace. Many of those ideas contradict the way of life during the time of the prophet and the Caliphs. This is the real example and the true model.

He has curbed the powers of the country's so-called "religious police," who until recently were able to arrest women for not covering up. And listen carefully to what he says is not part of Islamic Law.

Mohammed bin Salman: The laws are very clear and stipulated in the laws of Sharia: that women wear decent, respectful clothing, like men. This, however, does not particularly specify a black abaya or a black head cover. The decision is entirely left for women to decide what type of decent and respectful attire she chooses to wear.

His words are significant, and so far, the kingdom's religious leaders are holding their tongues, and have sworn allegiance to the young prince.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saudi-crown-prince-talks-to-60-minutes/
25   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 19, 6:29pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Mohammed al-Sheikh: It wasn't easy. Just given the names and given the people who were involved, it really wasn't easy. But we-- we just felt that we had to do this. And and we had to do it that way.

Norah O'Donnell: What kinda corruption are we talking about? I mean, how much money was disappearing?

Mohammed al-Sheikh: Probably 5 to 10 percent of the annual spend by the government, which was roughly, I would say anywhere between $10-20 billion, maybe even more, on an annual basis.

Norah O'Donnell: So $20 billion a year is just disappearing?

Mohammed al-Sheikh: Disappearing.

Norah O'Donnell: How much money did you get back?

Mohammed bin Salman: The amount exceeds $100 billion, but the real objective was not this amount or any other amount. The idea is not to get money, but to punish the corrupt and send a clear signal that whoever engages in corrupt deals will face the law.

Norah O'Donnell: Is this also about sending a message that, as we say in America, there's a new sheriff in town?

Mohammed bin Salman: Absolutely. Absolutely.
26   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 19, 9:24pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Leaving these concerns aside, there is the bigger problem of the valuation methodology itself. In a blunt but very informative story for Bloomberg Gadfly, Liam Denning suggests that Aramco may need crude oil at US$80 a barrel to get the US$2-trillion valuation it claims it has. That’s in addition to making several wild assumptions along the way.


I doubt if Aramco is worth anywhere close to $2 trillion. By issuing only 5% of the stock, the Saudis can easily manipulate the stock.
Fossil fuels has no future, because the cost of electric cars and solar power is falling like a rock. Worst news ever for the fucking Saudis.
27   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 19, 10:37pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Mohammed bin Salman: After 1979, that's true. We were victims, especially my generation that suffered from this a great deal.

The crown prince traces most of Saudi Arabia's problems to the year 1979, when the Ayatollah Khomeini established an Islamic theocracy next door in Iran. The same year, religious extremists in Saudi Arabia took over Islam's holiest site, the Grand Mosque in Mecca. In order to appease their own religious radicals, the Saudis began clamping down and segregating women from everyday life


OMG, that's just too funny. The richest country on earth was taken over by a bunch of raggedy mullah's because there was a revolution in the country that was their most bitter enemy. Was there also a shooter on the grassy knoll? He is totally full of shit. KSA has been a repressive theocracy since Sheikh Muhammad Al Abd al-Wahab swore an oath with Muhammad Al Saud in 1744 to create a nation based on Islamic principals. Half the country was living in tents in the 1950's when oil was discovered. When all the money first flowed in during the 60's and early 70's there was a period where things were in transition and restrictions eased a little. The hard liners regained power using the Grand Mosque seizure as an excuse.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Mohammed bin Salman: The amount exceeds $100 billion, but the real objective was not this amount or any other amount. The idea is not to get money, but to punish the corrupt and send a clear signal that whoever engages in corrupt deals will face the law.


Especially when the corrupt just happened to be the only people in the country with the ability to challenge MSB's power. Coincidence? I think not. The laughs just keep on coming.




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