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Why Saudi Arabia and Iran are heading towards a war, and why it's good for USA.

By Strategist following x   2017 Nov 17, 7:06pm 6,600 views   68 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


#MiddleEastInsanity

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42008809
How come Saudi Arabia and Iran don't get along?
Saudi Arabia and Iran - two powerful neighbours - are locked in a fierce struggle for regional dominance.
The decades-old feud between them is exacerbated by religious differences. They each follow one of the two main sects in Islam - Iran is largely Shia Muslim, while Saudi Arabia sees itself as the leading Sunni Muslim power.

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29   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2017 Nov 19, 11:34am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
The first thing that would happen is the Straights of Hormuz would be closed and 28% of the worlds oil supply would disappear leaving the US 9.5 million barrels a day short. Sure that would really be awesome.


If the Iranians closed the straits of Hormuz, that would be the end of the Iranian Navy and Air Force, at a minimum.
30   Strategist   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 19, 12:31pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsMcGee says
bob2356 says
The first thing that would happen is the Straights of Hormuz would be closed and 28% of the worlds oil supply would disappear leaving the US 9.5 million barrels a day short. Sure that would really be awesome.


If the Iranians closed the straits of Hormuz, that would be the end of the Iranian Navy and Air Force, at a minimum.


And the end of their life blood oil revenues. We have alternative sources of energy, but they have no alternative sources of income. We have them by the balls. :)
31   bob2356   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 19, 4:24pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Strategist says
bob2356 says
The first thing that would happen is the Straights of Hormuz would be closed and 28% of the worlds oil supply would disappear leaving the US 9.5 million barrels a day short. Sure that would really be awesome.

Yeah sure. We heard the same BS when Saddam Hussein was about to get attacked. Super tankers could just anchor for a few days until the war is over.


Iraq doesn't control the Straights of Hormuz. Iraq is at the end of the Persian Gulf. Check a map. That would be the few days like the Iraq/Iran war. Those few days?
32   WatermelonUniversity   ignore (6)   2017 Nov 19, 4:30pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

any war in that over-populated region is good.
33   bob2356   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 19, 4:53pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Strategist says
bob2356 says

Why don't you provide the source of your information that the Saudi AF is head and shoulders above? You made the statement, back it up.

If the USA is supporting the Saudis, obviously they will have the air force WE deem they should have. The $350 billion in weapons we are selling to the Saudis are not WW2 planes.
The team we support will win the war.


That worked out so well when the North Vietnamese 1950's vintage mig 17/21 were shooting the Air Force and Navy F-4/F-8's out of the sky. At least the Navy got the message after 5 years and started up Top Gun in 1968 to train Navy pilots in air combat again. The number of Navy kills went way up after that while the Air Force sucked wind until the war ended.

The mig 29's the russians are selling Iran aren't WWII vintage either. They are capable of taking on an F 15. Pilot skill would be the deciding factor. The F5 is very capable also. They were used as aggressors for many years by the US Navy/Air Force and could regularly beat an F15 with the right pilot. You might want to read this. https://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1128/p01s04-wosc.html

Tactics and training win air wars not hardware. That's been proven time and time again.
34   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2017 Nov 19, 4:56pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says
And the end of their life blood oil revenues. We have alternative sources of energy, but they have no alternative sources of income. We have them by the balls. :)


Any blockage of the Straits is bad for Iran, since we'll seize outbound tankers carrying Iranian oil anywhere in the Indian or Pacific. Worse for China than us. We get very little oil from Iran.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-iran-oil/chinas-iran-oil-imports-to-hit-record-on-new-production-sources-idUSKBN14P15W
35   Quigley   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 19, 5:02pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

anonymous says
" there by a long shot. We are there for nefarious reasons that have little to do with freedom and democracy but we don't have the guts to get out since that would mean admitting we can't like without their oil.


Partial credit. We don’t need their oil, we need their petro dollars and the sandbox is a great place to explode ordinance and fuel the Military Industrial Complex. We aren’t there to “win” anything. Just to spend money and create demand for weapons. And make widows. Lots and lots of widows.
36   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2017 Nov 19, 5:13pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Quigley says
We aren’t there to “win” anything. Just to spend money and create demand for weapons.


Foreign Policy Mag, which has endorsed all of our failed ME policies, right up till today, is mad that Crown Prince (soon King) Muhammed is reforming Saudi Arabia.

They don't want to solve problems, they want them to keep going because Consultants have a vested interest in controlling but not eliminating the problem. If they eliminated it, a lucrative source of money and power would disappear. Nobody employees vacuum tube consultants like they used to in the 1950s.

The Wahabi-US Intel alliance has been decades in the making, it still has adherents.

Watch Prince Bandar "Bush" very very carefully. There were rumors of his arrest, but if Muhammed arrests or ousts Bandar, holy shit.

The secret alliance created around the Orb of Cofeve will destroy the legacy of failed Deep State MENA Policies.
37   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2017 Nov 19, 5:18pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

PS The Saudi Special Forces are already training the Lebanese Army. The Crown Prince has been bitching about Hezbollah lately.

Very Interesting things are going to happen.

Here are the deep state hit pieces on the amazing, young, reformist, Crown Prince coming fast and furious:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/11/saudi-crown-prince-makes-dangerous-unprecedented-power-grab.html
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/11/10/donald-trump-has-unleashed-the-saudi-arabia-we-always-wanted-and-feared/?utm_content=buffer6b0f0&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
38   Strategist   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 19, 8:13pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
Yeah sure. We heard the same BS when Saddam Hussein was about to get attacked. Super tankers could just anchor for a few days until the war is over.


Iraq doesn't control the Straights of Hormuz. Iraq is at the end of the Persian Gulf. Check a map. That would be the few days like the Iraq/Iran war. Those few days?


And did Iran manage to close the Straights during the Iraq/Iran war?
39   Strategist   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 19, 8:22pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
The mig 29's the russians are selling Iran aren't WWII vintage either. They are capable of taking on an F 15. Pilot skill would be the deciding factor. The F5 is very capable also. They were used as aggressors for many years by the US Navy/Air Force and could regularly beat an F15 with the right pilot. You might want to read this. https://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1128/p01s04-wosc.html

Tactics and training win air wars not hardware. That's been proven time and time again.


Better technology wins the wars. Iran has neither tactics or better hardware. They could not even defeat Saddam Hussein.
Remember the 1967 war Israel had with all the Arabs? American weapons are far more superior to any communist crap.
40   Quigley   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 19, 8:35pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says
American weapons are far more superior to any communist crap


Is that why we couldn’t win in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria? Or could it be that we never actually wanted to win. We just wanted to spend a fuckton of money blowing shit up to make our military industrial complex overlords richer.
41   Strategist   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 19, 8:44pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Quigley says
Strategist says
American weapons are far more superior to any communist crap


Is that why we couldn’t win in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria? Or could it be that we never actually wanted to win. We just wanted to spend a fuckton of money blowing shit up to make our military industrial complex overlords richer.


We chose not to use the weapons that could have given us easy victories. That is our weakness.
42   MbS   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 19, 9:21pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
KimJongUn says
anonymous says
"Saudi AF is head and shoulders above Persian rag-tag collection of obsolete hardware and out-of-practice pilots"

Browsing around last evening I could not find anything to support that statement.


Really? You browsed the whole interwebs day and night and couldn't find the list of hardware on both sides? I find it hard to believe.


Why don't you provide the source of your information that the Saudi AF is head and shoulders above? You made the statement, back it up.


Really? You really-really need links to wikipedia pages listing HW Saudi and Persian air forces have? Can't you find them yourself? Or is it you don't understand what these plane names and numbers really mean?
43   bob2356   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 19, 9:48pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

KimJongUn says
bob2356 says
KimJongUn says
anonymous says
"Saudi AF is head and shoulders above Persian rag-tag collection of obsolete hardware and out-of-practice pilots"

Browsing around last evening I could not find anything to support that statement.


Really? You browsed the whole interwebs day and night and couldn't find the list of hardware on both sides? I find it hard to believe.


Why don't you provide the source of your information that the Saudi AF is head and shoulders above? You made the statement, back it up.


Really? You really-really need links to wikipedia pages listing HW Saudi and Persian air forces have? Can't you find them yourself? Or is it you don't understand what these pl...


The way it works in adult conversations is if you say something is true you are expected to provide some type of basis for the assertion.
44   bob2356   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 19, 9:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says

We chose not to use the weapons that could have given us easy victories.


Which weapon was it that would have provided an easy victory in the air war over Vietnam or a ground victory in Iraq or Afghanistan. Remember that this is an adult conversation and it's true because I say it's true isn't good enough..
45   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Nov 19, 9:53pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
The way it works in adult conversations is if you say something is true you are expected to provide some type of basis for the assertion.


The way it works in adult conversations is if you say something is FALSE you are expected to provide some type of basis for the assertion.
46   bob2356   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 19, 10:05pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says


Better technology wins the wars.


I'm sure the nazi's are glad to know this after being crushed by the very low tech Russians.

Strategist says
Iran has neither tactics or better hardware.


Your study of Iran vs Saudi Arabia tactics and hardware is missing. Did you forget to post the link? Oh, right. It's true because I say it's true. How could I forget? So why is ti the Saudi's are having so much trouble in Yemen. You forgot to talk about that also.
47   Strategist   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 20, 9:28am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
Strategist says


Better technology wins the wars.


I'm sure the nazi's are glad to know this after being crushed by the very low tech Russians.

They say,,,,"Britain won the war with American money, and Russian blood"
Low tech weapons wont cut it in todays world. We can turn any ME country into a parking lot without a single boot on the ground, if we wanted to.

bob2356 says
Your study of Iran vs Saudi Arabia tactics and hardware is missing. Did you forget to post the link? Oh, right. It's true because I say it's true. How could I forget? So why is ti the Saudi's are having so much trouble in Yemen. You forgot to talk about that also.

I don't know. It's not their brains that made them famous. I see you chickened out by not addressing the 1967 Israeli victories against all odds. Spectacular, wasn't it?
48   Strategist   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 20, 9:30am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
Strategist says

We chose not to use the weapons that could have given us easy victories.


Which weapon was it that would have provided an easy victory in the air war over Vietnam or a ground victory in Iraq or Afghanistan. Remember that this is an adult conversation and it's true because I say it's true isn't good enough..


Have you seen that old bumper sticker......"One nuclear bomb can ruin your whole day"
We chose not to ruin their day. :)
49   Quigley   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 20, 11:47am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Nukes are and have been off the table since the Cold War ended. Even then, the mutually assured destruction meant that they could never be used without destroying everything that meant anything. And now? Any nation which uses them to fight wars would immediately incur the wrath of the entire international community and be shunned as a pariah. Trade deals would be cancelled and money shunned. It would be social and economic death to use one of our nukes.

Ground troops are necessary to “win” any war, as the war zone must be cleared of combatants and secured against resurgence. Air strikes are showy ways of wasting money which can’t win the war on their own.

Therefore: if we aren’t committing a lot of ground troops, we aren’t serious about winning and we will accomplish nothing.
50   Strategist   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 20, 2:12pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Quigley says
Ground troops are necessary to “win” any war, as the war zone must be cleared of combatants and secured against resurgence. Air strikes are showy ways of wasting money which can’t win the war on their own.

Therefore: if we aren’t committing a lot of ground troops, we aren’t serious about winning and we will accomplish nothing.


We will let the Saudis commit ground troops. They deserve to die.
51   Strategist   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 20, 5:44pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

anonymous says
Saudis ‘would let Israeli jets use their air space to attack Iran’

Saudi Arabia is prepared to let Israeli fighter jets use its airspace if it proves necessary to attack Iran’s nuclear program, an Israeli TV station reported Tuesday, highlighting growing ties in the shadow of Tehran’s nuclear drive.


Iran is fucked.
52   bob2356   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 21, 5:31am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says

I don't know. It's not their brains that made them famous. I see you chickened out by not addressing the 1967 Israeli victories against all odds. Spectacular, wasn't it?


I did address the 1967 war. It falls under the category of superior tactics. A massive preemptive strike and using misdirection ala Ardenne forest requires no superior weaponry at all. It requires careful planning, top notch tactics, and great execution. You do know that the Egyptians had soviet weapons but Jordan had western weapons don't you? Jordan actually had somewhat newer and better weapons in some area's. Want to explain why Israel wiped out Jordan just as easily as Egypt if superior weaponry is the key?

Now do you care to address why the Saudi's superior weapons aren't doing shit in Yemen?
53   bob2356   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 21, 5:52am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says
bob2356 says
Strategist says

We chose not to use the weapons that could have given us easy victories.


Which weapon was it that would have provided an easy victory in the air war over Vietnam or a ground victory in Iraq or Afghanistan. Remember that this is an adult conversation and it's true because I say it's true isn't good enough..


Have you seen that old bumper sticker......"One nuclear bomb can ruin your whole day"
We chose not to ruin their day. :)


How does a nuclear bomb turn the tide in an air war?

Even more curious, how would punching giant nuclear bomb size holes in the deserts of Iraq and Afghanistan have provided easy victory? The war against the Taliban was over an 800 mile long front that was mostly sparsely populated. I'm sure India and china which are downwind during the summer monsoon or all of Africa which is downwind during the winter monsoon , would be thrilled to have tons of highly radioactive fallout raining down on them. I'd love to see the president making those phone calls.
54   Strategist   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 21, 7:45am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
Strategist says

I don't know. It's not their brains that made them famous. I see you chickened out by not addressing the 1967 Israeli victories against all odds. Spectacular, wasn't it?


I did address the 1967 war. It falls under the category of superior tactics. A massive preemptive strike and using misdirection ala Ardenne forest requires no superior weaponry at all. It requires careful planning, top notch tactics, and great execution. You do know that the Egyptians had soviet weapons but Jordan had western weapons don't you? Jordan actually had somewhat newer and better weapons in some area's. Want to explain why Israel wiped out Jordan just as easily as Egypt if superior weaponry is the key?

I know you don't believe your own arguments. The most sophisticated weapons only go to Israel. I remember reading in college that the USA will never sell anything it cannot shoot down. If Israel is not an exception, it comes pretty damn close. I admit Israel has superior tactics. They have superior everything.....weapons, training, tactics, brains and more brains. The Arabs have inferior everything, starting with their fucked up Allah.


bob2356 says
Now do you care to address why the Saudi's superior weapons aren't doing shit in Yemen?

Obama restricted their use when too many innocent people started getting killed. Now with Trump, things may have quietly changed.
55   Strategist   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 21, 7:56am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
Even more curious, how would punching giant nuclear bomb size holes in the deserts of Iraq and Afghanistan have provided easy victory? The war against the Taliban was over an 800 mile long front that was mostly sparsely populated.


Ha ha ha.We won't be punching giant nuclear holes in the desert. It's a war, not a New Year fireworks display. The nuclear bombs would be used if necessary to blow up their nukes. There are tactical battlefield nukes too, which are used to blow up small targets like bridges.
Like I said before, those who stone women to death cannot be treated with nuclear weapons. The two must and will be separated.

bob2356 says
The war against the Taliban was over an 800 mile long front that was mostly sparsely populated.

You don't use nuclear weapons against rag tag flea ridden freaks. It's like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly in a glass house. You use drones to kill terrorists.
56   Strategist   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 21, 7:57am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says
bob2356 says
The war against the Taliban was over an 800 mile long front that was mostly sparsely populated.

You don't use nuclear weapons against rag tag flea ridden freaks. It's like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly in a glass house. You use drones to kill terrorists.


You need to think like an Israeli, not those dumb Arabs.
57   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2017 Nov 21, 8:42am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Word is the Saudis are training the Lebanese to fight Hezbollah and finally exterminate that terrorist group.

It's interesting that certain Deep Staters who backed the Iraq War, all the interventions/coup attempts in Libya and Syria, the war with the Houthis, etc. all of sudden are skeptical on Saudi Arabia now that a moderate, young reformer is in charge.

No doubt because their patrons are being detained by the new Crown Prince, and because there is no money in solving the problem.
58   bob2356   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 21, 1:04pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says

I know you don't believe your own arguments. The most sophisticated weapons only go to Israel.


It's true because I say it's true again?
59   bob2356   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 21, 1:09pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says
bob2356 says
Even more curious, how would punching giant nuclear bomb size holes in the deserts of Iraq and Afghanistan have provided easy victory? The war against the Taliban was over an 800 mile long front that was mostly sparsely populated.


Ha ha ha.We won't be punching giant nuclear holes in the desert. It's a war, not a New Year fireworks display. The nuclear bombs would be used if necessary to blow up their nukes. There are tactical battlefield nukes too, which are used to blow up small targets like bridges.
Like I said before, those who stone women to death cannot be treated with nuclear weapons. The two must and will be separated.

bob2356 says
The war against the Taliban was over an 800 mile long front that was mostly sparsely populated.

You don't use nuclear weapons again...


So this why we didn't win in afghanistan/iraq for so many years. Drones are the weapon you were talking about that we held back. And I thought I saw drones being used on the news. Silly me. So what happened to one nuclear bomb will ruin your whole day? I'm confused about what we held back so we could keep fighting in the ME for 16 years. What is the hold back de jour now?
60   bob2356   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 21, 1:10pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says
bob2356 says
Now do you care to address why the Saudi's superior weapons aren't doing shit in Yemen?

Obama restricted their use when too many innocent people started getting killed. Now with Trump, things may have quietly changed.


Obama restricted saudi's use of drones? Got anything to back that up or it's true because I say it's true again?
61   Strategist   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 21, 3:50pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
. So what happened to one nuclear bomb will ruin your whole day? I'm confused about what we held back so we could keep fighting in the ME for 16 years. What is the hold back de jour now?


Just waiting for Israel and Saudi Arabia to be done with their honeymoon. They're the ones who are determined to take out Iranian nukes.
62   bob2356   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 21, 3:59pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

anon_eecc4 says
bob2356 says
The way it works in adult conversations is if you say something is true you are expected to provide some type of basis for the assertion.


The way it works in adult conversations is if you say something is FALSE you are expected to provide some type of basis for the assertion.


Good thing no one said anything was false. What was said was the information supporting it was missing. Want to get in on the adult conversation now?
63   WatermelonUniversity   ignore (6)   2017 Dec 17, 4:18am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

It’s only good for Israel and defense contractors.
64   WatermelonUniversity   ignore (6)   2017 Dec 17, 4:19am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

McGee will come in soon and accuse me of being anti semi without facing the facts.
65   komputodo   ignore (0)   2017 Dec 17, 6:33am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
If the USA is supporting the Saudis, obviously they will have the air force WE deem they should have. The $350 billion in weapons we are selling to the Saudis are not WW2 planes.
The team we support will win the war.


Well thats a given. The usa always wins the wars in which it participates due to our 'superiority". We must start intense training now for our young men to fight and give their lives to spread freedom and democracy through the middle east and save our homeland from terrorism. I learned that from the TV.
66   Strategist   ignore (3)   2017 Dec 17, 8:01am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

komputodo says
We must start intense training now for our young men to fight and give their lives to spread freedom and democracy through the middle east and save our homeland from terrorism. I learned that from the TV.



Must be CNN.
67   Strategist   ignore (3)   2017 Dec 17, 8:04am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

anonymous says
Saudi Arabia has some of the greatest military equipment money can buy, but its military is still not seen as a threat to its longtime rival Iran.

• Saudi Arabia's military has not proved capable of effectively fighting back Iran-backed Houthi rebels in Yemen.

• Its arsenal is designed for a large conventional war — not proxy fighting.

Saudi Arabia's ambitions are limited by its military, which is considered an ineffective force even though the kingdom is one of the world's largest spenders on defense.

"The fact is, Iran is better at doing this stuff," said Michael Knights, a Lafer fellow at The Washington Institute who specializes in the military and security affairs of Iraq, Iran, and the Persian Gulf.

"There's nobody in the Iranian General Staff that's afraid of Saudi Arabia on the ground," Knights said.

Saudi Arabia's struggles in Yemen — where its years-long conflict with the Houthi rebels has no end in sight — reveals its shortcomin...


Hmmmmm. Another $350 billion in arms from the USA might do the trick. Hey we need the money.
68   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2017 Dec 17, 8:43am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Iranian Military advisors withdrawn fleeing Yemen

http://www.egypttoday.com/Article/1/36465/Iran-withdraws-40-military-advisors-from-Yemen

Word is Hezbollah is returning to Lebanon "to fight Israel". BS, they're there to try to prevent Lebanon's Government from disarming them with help from the Gulf States.

BorderPatrol says
McGee will come in soon and accuse me of being anti semi without facing the facts.


What facts? We got nukes, I see what is happening in France and Sweden, you can't take up arms against your neighbor, lose the fight, and then demand to return to your home. Tough shit for the Paleban. There's plenty of Oil money and jobs in Dubai.

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