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Senate bill is looking pretty good for us now....

By WildMind following x   2017 Dec 2, 8:39am 10,013 views   134 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


#poltics All the changes helped my $200k dual income family.... even though we won’t itemized anymore. Losing the SALT deduction and home equity loan interest deduction make it impossible to itemize now... but atleast the lower brackets and ability to get a $2000 tax credit for our child offset any higher taxes due to not being able to itemize.

Hopefully the house passes this thing with minimal changes since the property tax deduction survived. The house bill was horrible for upper middle class earners in blue states. This softens the blow. There’s about a $3000 difference now between the senate and house bills for us.

It’s still stupid all these tax changes and it’s basically a wash for our family all said and done. Just glad we didn’t stretch and buy a really expensive house.... those people in our income level are getting screwed if they can’t combine those interest payments with SALT for a fat deduction.

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95   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2017 Dec 6, 3:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Try that again HappyGilmore, without the personal attack.
97   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Dec 6, 4:20pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says

There is no birth lottery. That's an excuse socialist use for trying to redistribute other people's wealth, it's what the Soviet Union used as an excuse to implement Communism and it lead to 100,000,000+ dead people in the 20th century. You're literally advocating for death, I advocate for life.


No, there absolutely is a birth lottery. Anyone who says otherwise is either very naïve or purposely disingenuous.

Do you have any links or source material backing up your claim that the Soviet Union used birth lottery as an excuse to implement communism?
98   Rew   ignore (0)   2017 Dec 6, 4:21pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (3)   quote   flag        

So, just because someone pays "nothing" in taxes, they have no voice in how our progressive tax system is implemented, and where the money to fund the government comes from?
99   Rew   ignore (0)   2017 Dec 6, 4:24pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (3)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
Try that again HappyGilmore, without the personal attack.


So an accusation that you are misinformed or have some other overriding belief/agenda is jail worthy?

Or was it the part where Happy asked you to back up your claims with sources? :)
100   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2017 Dec 6, 4:36pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rew says
So, just because someone pays "nothing" in taxes, they have no voice in how our progressive tax system is implemented, and where the money to fund the government comes from?


Why should they?

Why should someone who contributes nothing to the tax system have a say in how the money is spent?

They don't let 10 year olds vote on laws or vote for politicians.
101   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2017 Dec 6, 4:37pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rew says
So an accusation that you are misinformed or have some other overriding belief/agenda is jail worthy?

Or was it the part where Happy asked you to back up your claims with sources? :)


The asking for facts part was fine, the "anyone who thinks this is very naïve or purposely disingenuous, I'll let others judge which you are" is a personal attack.

Rules are pretty simple to follow IMO.
102   HappyGilmore   ignore (0)   2017 Dec 6, 4:41pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Still waiting for the sources on Russia.
103   Rew   ignore (0)   2017 Dec 6, 4:45pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (3)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
They don't let 10 year olds vote on laws or vote for politicians.


Anyone eligible to vote has a voice on anything up for debate.

Or shall we apply your logic out further to abortion and birth control?

She, the "zero tax payer" (who I guarantee is paying taxes of some form) absolutely gets a say. It influences all the people, community, and culture around her. (edit: I missed the big one, "It's the economy stupid". (disclaimer, that's an actual quote, not a slight at Moderator in Chief Goran))
104   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2017 Dec 6, 5:06pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

HappyGilmore says
Because of the Constitution? Ever heard of it?


Sure.

But I'm talking on a purely water cooler level. Does it seem fair that people who contribute nothing to the system get to vote on how money is spent? Seems pretty unfair.
105   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2017 Dec 6, 5:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rew says
Anyone eligible to vote has a voice on anything up for debate.

Or shall we apply your logic out further to abortion and birth control?

She, the "zero tax payer" (who I guarantee is paying taxes of some form) absolutely gets a say. It influences all the people, community, and culture around her. (edit: I missed the big one, "It's the economy stupid". (disclaimer, that's an actual quote, not a slight at Moderator in Chief Goran))


Sure, I've always agreed that women have a right to kill their babies. I've only ever argued with the pseudo-science claim that it's "not a baby, just a clump of cells".
106   DASKAA   ignore (3)   2017 Dec 6, 5:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rew says
Goran_K says
They don't let 10 year olds vote on laws or vote for politicians.


Anyone eligible to vote has a voice on anything up for debate.


And everybody else can give their assessment regarding the value of her opinion.
107   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Dec 6, 9:05pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

@Patrick,

It looks like this Goran guy is running rampant censoring people left and right... to the point that the jailed comments are now more interesting to read. Not good for the site.

FP
108   Patrick   ignore (1)   2017 Dec 6, 9:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I disagree. Maybe there are a few edge cases that are hard to classify, but think Goran is very fair.

Note that you can now actually see which user jailed any comment in jail. It's in the header line of the comment.
109   Rew   ignore (0)   2017 Dec 6, 9:29pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (3)   quote   flag        

anon_c8b23 says
... to the point that the jailed comments are now more interesting to read. Not good for the site.


I noticed some fascinating reads there as well.

KimJongUn says
And everybody else can give their assessment regarding the value of her opinion.


Absolutely, but she still gets to vote, and you can never take that away because she is poor, or doesn't pay to be able to vote.

I know less fortunate people than I, who are far better with money than I am, because they have to be. I want their opinions and votes on taxes, far more than I want some trust fund baby's voice anywhere near government.

Goran_K says
Sure, I've always agreed that women have a right to kill their babies.


And so your argument is what, you have to pay taxes to be able to vote? How much do you have to pay? What's the threshold? Do you get more than one vote if you pay more?
Do you have to pay taxes to be able to ... oh, I dunno ... be President too?
What about run for any office?

I don't think a Plutocracy is what is intended for the US, and I think your ideas would poll in single digits with the American public.

The Dems are elitist? Hah!
110   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2017 Dec 9, 11:52am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
ou were lying when you said "Goran proposed eliminating college loans." This isn't an opinion, it's a fact, you lied.


Just quoting this to show Goran's complete bias.
111   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (4)   2017 Dec 9, 12:02pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

LeonDurham says
Goran_K says
ou were lying when you said "Goran proposed eliminating college loans." This isn't an opinion, it's a fact, you lied.


Just quoting this to show Goran's complete bias.


What is this supposed to prove?
Is there a poster here who is not biased?
112   DASKAA   ignore (3)   2017 Dec 9, 1:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

LeonDurham says
Goran_K says
ou were lying when you said "Goran proposed eliminating college loans." This isn't an opinion, it's a fact, you lied.


Just quoting this to show Goran's complete bias.


Go open a special thread about moderation and another one about Goran's moral flaws. Stop shitting in this thread.
113   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Dec 9, 3:12pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

KimJongUn says


Go open a special thread about moderation and another one about Goran's moral flaws. Stop shitting in this thread.


Fair enough. I will do it.
114   bob2356   ignore (3)   2017 Dec 9, 5:14pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
HappyGilmore says
Because of the Constitution? Ever heard of it?


Sure.

But I'm talking on a purely water cooler level. Does it seem fair that people who contribute nothing to the system get to vote on how money is spent? Seems pretty unfair.


I wasn't aware we had switched to a referendum system for the federal budget. I didn't get the memo. As far as I knew no one but congress gets to vote how the money is spent, although lobbyists get to write a lot of stuff in to be voted on. People get to vote for their representatives to congress. Something all American citizens SHOULD know.

How can anyone contribute nothing? That's absurd. They pay fica, they buy things from business that pay taxes, they pay fees, they pay sales taxes, they pay property taxes, gasoline taxes, etc., etc..
115   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2017 Dec 9, 5:56pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
How can anyone contribute nothing? That's absurd. They pay fica, they buy things from business that pay taxes, they pay fees, they pay sales taxes, they pay property taxes, gasoline taxes, etc., etc..


The whole discussion on the tax bills concerns FEDERAL taxes, not all the other taxes. It would be beneficial to read and not to jump in at the end of a thread.

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