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This is why Leftism is going to eventually die out: Ideology vs Truth.

By Goran_K following x   2018 Jan 21, 11:20am 4,801 views   57 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    



Eye opening display of blind leftism being absolutely picked apart, totally destroyed, over a 30 minute interview.



2.5 million views, 50,000 comments and rising.

This happens all the time now. Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro regularly publicly destroy leftist ideas in the forum of public opinion, and it's always a slaughter.

Think about a Monday Night Football game, where one team has scored 4 touchdowns by the half, and you're only watching the 2nd half to see how bad it gets. These aren't even ideological debates anymore, it's ideological wipeouts. Now because of social media literally tens of millions of people are seeing these blowouts, and it's hurting leftism deeply.

Leftist think they are winning because MSM controls cable. That's true. The problem is, young people aren't watching CNN or NBC or care much about Don Lemon or Jake Tapper. They go onto social media and see these destructive battles of ideology and see leftist ideological corpses left in their wake.

There are no Ben Shapiros or Jordan Petersons on the left either. None exist.

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18   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 21, 3:44pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

“Leftist” is a word we were forced to coin to differentiate the ultra conservative left-wing nutjob fascists from the Liberals whose name they were trying to hijack for a modicum of respectability.
Leftists hate Liberals most of all, because they are polar opposites from people who believe in freedom of thought.
19   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Jan 21, 5:06pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

lostand confused says
Today in the leftist world view-they think we are in the top of the world, never can come tumbling down and help the poor downtrodden third worlders while getting their welfare from their parents or the gubmnt or poor ex husbands.

They are the true racists, because they cannot comprehend a third worlder as an equal as a competitor who can take our place any time in the world stage. They talk about the 1%, their govt drones live off us like the soviets and they seek to beat down the talented, the hard working and take their money-like they do from their parents and govt.

They simply cannot comprehend that if we are not competitive, we can fall and become a third world shithole very quick .

The supply of stupid lefties seem infinite and I fear we may fall and become some leftie paradise like the soviet union or the former China-before they adopted capitalism.


Not a single point here rings true for the typical liberal.

Therefore cite an imaginary straw man view of the left. But your vote gives the right the power to plutocrats to rob from the future. The 1% are rarely hard working and talented. More often they live off inheritances.

You have to know when the deficit explodes because of the current tax cuts, they're going to try to diminish your "entitlements" that you've presumably been paying in to.

Notice how I deal with reality, rather than some imaginary fantasy of what your beliefs are ? I don't know why middle class and working class right wingers fall for it. But I know part of it is that they think some poor folks are getting something for free, while you work hard for your living.

What about compassion for some guy who knocked a girl up when he was 18, and now they both work but need food stamps and housing subsidy to make ends meet.

You going to blame liberals for the fact that real wages have been decreasing for decades ? IT's just the natural balancing as the developing world digs itself out of 50 cents a month kind of poverty. I'm a realist. That's all. Yes, globalization happened. But the idea that the "libruls" caused it is beyond stupid.
20   BayArea   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 21, 5:06pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says

Eye opening display of blind leftism being absolutely picked apart, totally destroyed, over a 30 minute interview.

This happens all the time now. Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro regularly publicly destroy leftist ideas in the forum of public opinion, and it's always a slaughter.


Sam Harris is a good one on the left.
21   BlueSardine   ignore (2)   2018 Jan 21, 8:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Leftists are like garlic butter.
They both sound good to the palette, but once downed initiate cardiac arrest...
22   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Jan 22, 7:17am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

BayArea says

Sam Harris is a good one on the left.

Sam Harris is more of a true liberal than a leftist IMO. While he does advocate equality of outcome (or maximizing social outcome as he says it) which is a central tenant of liberals, he is very critical of feminism and Muslims which has made him an enemy of the left. He’s more of a Hitchens type guy on the left than say a Cenk Uygur of the left.

In this day and age, Cenk is far more representative of the left than Harris which is why Cenk gets more of the attention and accolades than Harris from Democrats/Leftist.

He is a good debater and although I’m not an atheist I respect his arguments. He also doesn’t really go on TV and debate to destroy like Shapiro does. Harris seems like he’s more of an open conversationalist. He’s not there to crack your skull with facts and logic but to hear your ideas and present his ideas if that makes any sense.
23   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2018 Jan 22, 7:55am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

That video was really good.

Ironically, Peterson compares leftists to Chairman Mao, and the reporter says that she shouldn't do that, because Mao killed millions of people. Peterson was of course correct to compare certain traits of theirs to those traits in Mao. What was funny about this to me is that is the same thing that Flake was doing when he compared Trump's rhetoric to Stalin's. The right on this board flipped their shit just like this reporter. Those Trump cheerleaders have proven themselves to be no more lucid than this reporter at times.
24   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Jan 22, 8:15am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
Sam Harris is more of a true liberal than a leftist IMO. While he does advocate equality of outcome (or maximizing social outcome as he says it) which is a central tenant of liberals


Mind you, I agree with some of what Harris says (I'm a libertarian so that's natural), but I don't agree that society should try to maximize societal outcome on the individual level. If you want to maximize outcome at all, Capitalism does a far better job than Socialism as the 20th century showed us with numerous examples. Equality of opportunity gives society the BEST chance of BEST outcomes.
25   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Jan 22, 8:27am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

FNWGMOBDVZXDNW says
What was funny about this to me is that is the same thing that Flake was doing when he compared Trump's rhetoric to Stalin's. The right on this board flipped their shit just like this reporter. Those Trump cheerleaders have proven themselves to be no more lucid than this reporter at times.


The difference is that Peterson is actually right, and he's coming from a standpoint of ideological consistency (e.g - Communist and Leftist both disregard opposing viewpoints in FAVOR of group think, that's extremely dangerous).

Flake was just acting like a little bitch because Trump rightfully called him out for being an ineffective Senator for his constituents and having a 16% approval rating and instead of getting crushed in an election bid, choose to slink away taking pot shots at the POTUS for being right.
26   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Jan 22, 8:29am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

BTW, reaching nearly 55,000 comments and 3,000,000 views. Leftist have CNN, everyone else has social media. I know which one I'd rather have when trying to reach the next generation of voters.
27   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Jan 22, 8:37am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
Goran_K says
Sam Harris is more of a true liberal than a leftist IMO. While he does advocate equality of outcome (or maximizing social outcome as he says it) which is a central tenant of liberals


Mind you, I agree with some of what Harris says (I'm a libertarian so that's natural), but I don't agree that society should try to maximize societal outcome on the individual level. If you want to maximize outcome at all, Capitalism does a far better job than Socialism as the 20th century showed us with numerous examples. Equality of opportunity gives society the BEST chance of BEST outcomes.


What we really need to do is get rid of the biggest socialist drain on our federal income tax dollars. The military industrial complex. Why sould these poor sacks that don't pay a dime in federal income tax be getting free defense. So wrong, biggest socialist drain on our society it needs to be stopped now, right Goran?
28   P N Dr Lo R   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 22, 8:37am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

FNWGMOBDVZXDNW says
Peterson compares leftists to Chairman Mao,
This is demonstrated by the actions of "students" on college campuses who are the modern day counterparts of Chairman (hold the) Mao's Red Guards.
29   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 22, 8:38am   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I just watched the video and was quite impressed. Both sides aggressively argued their points, and Peterson was more coherent.
30   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Jan 22, 8:46am   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Leftist feminism isn't logical, it's emotional. It's the ignore that we live in a greatest country in the world with all the same rights, it's imagine in your mind that you are being oppressed by men and go parade hating on men. I bet it's sponsored by Democratic party.
31   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 22, 8:47am   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I just like the part where he talks her into a corner and she admits “you got me.”
Checkmate
32   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Jan 22, 9:13am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

anon_13ce6 says
What we really need to do is get rid of the biggest socialist drain on our federal income tax dollars. The military industrial complex. Why sould these poor sacks that don't pay a dime in federal income tax be getting free defense. So wrong, biggest socialist drain on our society it needs to be stopped now, right Goran?


I don't think it's the biggest societal drain, leftism as a whole is the biggest drain on the US economy. Trump has been barely in office for a year, and just relaxed the tax burden slightly and look what is has done for our economy. That's 7 trillion in created wealth. We should have the goal of shrinking the federal government, not making it bigger.

I do agree with Eisenhower's sentiment when warned about this sector of society taking our country hostage. I've never liked the U.S having hundreds of bases around the world playing policeman for every local conflict that sparks off. We shouldn't be expected to pay and accept refugees as a result of all these local conflicts either.

We should provide aid, and help those people get back onto their feet, but they should fix their own living rooms, not stay in ours. This is how Japan/Germany reconstruction worked after WW2 and it worked brilliantly.

That's why I voted for Ron Paul in 2008/2012. I truly do want a more pronounced U.S isolationism with regards to foreign policy.
33   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 22, 9:32am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

anon_08dee says
You have to know when the deficit explodes because of the current tax cuts, they're going to try to diminish your "entitlements" that you've presumably been paying in to.

Oh please. tell me how much deficit is the current tax cuts going to cause. Tell me how much deficits did Obama incur after he increased taxes. Cut gubmnt-time for that.
anon_08dee says
ou going to blame liberals for the fact that real wages have been decreasing for decades ? IT's just the natural balancing as the developing world digs itself out of 50 cents a month kind of poverty. I'm a realist. That's all. Yes, globalization happened. But the idea that the "libruls" caused it is beyond stupid.

Realist would never supprot lefties. Theyw ant unlimited immigration, unlimited globalisation-which two Presidents pushed for massive free trade deals. Which president killed the TPP and is renegpotating NAFTA-yeah right realist.
34   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2018 Jan 22, 9:51am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Both sides aggressively argued their points, and Peterson was more coherent.
At first, I thought that she was doing a good job prompting him to showcase his points. It became evident halfway through or so that she was just not 'getting it' and responding well to the points he was making.
What I thought was interesting was the attention to the trait of being 'agreeable'. This was used as the opposite of assertive. I don't think that those things have to be polar opposites, although they are certainly opposing forces. Anyway, the real takeaway for everybody from that interview is that if you want to move ahead, you have to be assertive and competitive - not necessarily a disagreeable or bossy dick, though.
35   P N Dr Lo R   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 22, 9:57am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
I just watched the video
#Me too.
36   P N Dr Lo R   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 22, 10:04am   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

anon_13ce6 says
The military industrial complex
That part of Eisenhower's speech is familiar to all, but less familiar is the next to last paragraph of Sec. IV:

"Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite."
37   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Jan 22, 11:00am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
leftism as a whole is the biggest drain on the US economy


What exactly does this mean? What is leftism? Is there rightism and centerism? How are they the biggest drain? What programs and how much?

Goran_K says
Trump has been barely in office for a year, and just relaxed the tax burden slightly and look what is has done for our economy.


Has the tax burden lifting taken effect, when was the start date on that? What percentage of how the economy is doing is based on the Dow? How quickly can that 7 trillion in created wealth evaporate into thin air?
38   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Jan 22, 11:05am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

lostand confused says
Oh please. tell me how much deficit is the current tax cuts going to cause.


The truth is the tax cuts will end up being net positive. The increased national economic performance will increase the tax base, which will more than cover the effect of the cuts.
39   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Jan 22, 11:31am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
lostand confused says
Oh please. tell me how much deficit is the current tax cuts going to cause.


The truth is the tax cuts will end up being net positive. The increased national economic performance will increase the tax base, which will more than cover the effect of the cuts.


Well I don't think you can say truth. It is definitely the hope. Time will tell.
40   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Jan 22, 1:03pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

FNWGMOBDVZXDNW says
What I thought was interesting was the attention to the trait of being 'agreeable'. This was used as the opposite of assertive.

Assertiveness is actually an aspect of a totally separate Big Five trait, Extraversion. The other aspect of Extraversion is Enthusiasm. The Big Five trait Agreeableness breaks down into two aspects (Politeness and Compassion). The interviewer probably ranks lower in Politeness, though it should be noted that Dr. Peterson's research shows that it is likely that it's the high levels of compassion that produces the offense sensitivity seen in high PC individuals.
Looking at the traits through the lens of evolutionary psychology, you can see how, due to environmental factors, different aspects can confer an advantage, or, due to different environmental stresses, put one at a disadvantage. Peterson's point is there are some competent woman who do well as team players in a business environment, but need assertiveness training to "overcome" their agreeableness.
41   Strategist   ignore (3)   2018 Jan 22, 7:19pm   ↑ like (6)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
Eye opening display of blind leftism being absolutely picked apart, totally destroyed, over a 30 minute interview.


This is really sad. We won't have anyone left to kick around.
Pelosi and Schumer......humiliated.
Democrats.......looking very foolish.
Economy......rebounding like crazy.
Unemployment......Too low to even mention.
China......caving in on trade.
Kim Jong Un.........Running scared.
Pakistan.........no more aid.
Palestinians....no Jerusalem for them.
Iran.......already starting to shiver
----------------
Dear Trump, Where the fuck were you all this time?
42   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Jan 23, 8:40am   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Strategist says
This is really sad. We won't have anyone left to kick around.
Pelosi and Schumer......humiliated.
Democrats.......looking very foolish.
Economy......rebounding like crazy.
Unemployment......Too low to even mention.
China......caving in on trade.
Kim Jong Un.........Running scared.
Pakistan.........no more aid.
Palestinians....no Jerusalem for them.
Iran.......already starting to shiver
----------------
Dear Trump, Where the fuck were you all this time?


Seriously. Politics hasn't been this good since Reagan basically robbed the Democrats of the 80s.

Trump is a true shit stirrer and disruptor. I'm loving this even though I didn't vote for him.
43   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 23, 1:21pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
Seriously. Politics hasn't been this good since Reagan basically robbed the Democrats of the 80s.

Trump is a true shit stirrer and disruptor. I'm loving this even though I didn't vote for him.

I am glad I voted for him. I curse myself for not betting on him financially-would have made a killing at those odds!
44   BayArea   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 23, 1:51pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

lostand confused says
Goran_K says
Seriously. Politics hasn't been this good since Reagan basically robbed the Democrats of the 80s.

Trump is a true shit stirrer and disruptor. I'm loving this even though I didn't vote for him.

I am glad I voted for him. I curse myself for not betting on him financially-would have made a killing at those odds!


I also played Trump too conservatively In the finance department, at least initially. Mistake.
45   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Jan 23, 2:20pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

lostand confused says
I am glad I voted for him. I curse myself for not betting on him financially-would have made a killing at those odds!


I seriously under estimated Trump's effect on American politics. He's out maneuvered the Democrats are pretty much every turn. My initial prediction was that Trump might get some things incrementally done (such as weakening ACA), but I never expected him to deliver a roaring economy, tax reform, and outright killing ACA in one fell swoop.

Now he's focusing on illegal immigration reform, and I don't think I'll doubt him again. He's going to get it done.
46   Strategist   ignore (3)   2018 Jan 23, 5:54pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says

Now he's focusing on illegal immigration reform, and I don't think I'll doubt him again. He's going to get it done.


He's got 7 years to do it. It will be done.
47   BayArea   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 24, 7:02am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I underestimated trump in the campaign, underestimated him in his first year in office.

I’m done underestimating him and won’t bet against him moving forward.

And that Jordan Peterson clip was impressive. How to tame and humiliate a rabid lefty with an agenda and blood coming out of her you know what... eyes
48   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Jan 24, 8:28am   ↑ like (5)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

BayArea says
How to tame and humiliate a rabid lefty with an agenda and blood coming out of her you know what... eyes



The best part is she ran full face into it during that last part where Jordan Peterson pointed out that she had been trying to make him uncomfortable, and had been rabidly aggressive during the past 30 minutes, but it was HER RIGHT to risk offending him to debate ideas, instead of not risking being offensive and not debating at all (which is what the left wants).

Her enormous brain fart, and subsequent admitting that she had been logically submitted on live TV was the icing on a very delicious cake.
49   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 24, 8:54am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I am just waiting for him to take on the FBI cabal. Democracy itself is at stake here.
50   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Jan 24, 9:00am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

That was a really informative video. We all know feminists are crazy, and I'm sure I wouldn't be able to have that sort of a debate with one as he did. Now granted, most of the time it's not live television and they just yell over you anyway.
51   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 24, 12:38pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

Politically, Peterson describes himself as a classic British liberal.
But of course, many right wing people on this board consider radical SJW as a prototypical representation of the left - which is a bit like saying Nazis represent the right.
52   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 24, 12:47pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I listened to a debate between Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson in which Harris eviscerated Peterson on his epistemological views.
I think Peterson was trying to include things like Jungian archetypes as a level of "truth" - which may be expected from a clinical psychologist but didn't fare well against raw realism.
Many academics should spend an afternoon with their hands in the grease trying to fix a car engine. This would help them to distinguish more clearly subjective and objective reality.
53   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Jan 25, 9:03am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

For those who haven't seen Sam Harris.

Here he is on CNN debating Islamist defender Zakara.

54   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Jan 25, 6:02pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

HS, make no mistake, even with all the Jungian mumbo-jumbo, Peterson's framework is firmly rooted in evolutionary biology. Objective reality from that framework says that as your underlying environment changes, all the material knowledge in the world (just the facts, Sam Harris) won't save your bacon. Watch out for the cat-bird-snake, bucko.
55   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 25, 10:27pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

anon_3e01a says
HS, make no mistake, even with all the Jungian mumbo-jumbo, Peterson's framework is firmly rooted in evolutionary biology. Objective reality from that framework says that as your underlying environment changes, all the material knowledge in the world (just the facts, Sam Harris) won't save your bacon. Watch out for the cat-bird-snake, bucko.


Well of course it is.
Let's cut it into layers:
1 - The subjective world: this is first-person experience: Everything we are consciously aware of, including perception, sensations like thirst or pain, and feelings like frustration or love.
2 - the physical world, aka the real world
3 - the behavior of the brain seen as a third person experience.

(1) is pretty much the only thing we can be certain of, however, it is not shared between people.
(2) is a subset of (1) in the way we experience it, but it is more tangible than most other subjective facts. In addition, it is shared between people.
(3) the brain-behavior is part of (2) and should normally also describe (1). Our subjective impressions should be explained by the physiology of the brain and neurons activity.

When you talk about evolutionary psychology, you are talking about (3). And normally Jungian archetype can be understood as (3), but also as (1) (first-person vs third-person).

Now Harris is a moral realist, meaning he tries to understand some subjective notions like well-being as a part of the universe. In a way, his claim is that part of (1) is really obviously shared between humans. For example, we all understand that a woman wearing an Islamic tent is probably not optimal well-being. But I think he really approaches it on layer (3), as a neuroscientist. This is tricky because some notions like pain cannot easily be understood on layer (3). On layer (3) you would see pain as a signal, not as feeling the pain.
Whereas Peterson (I think) was trying to make the claim that part of (1) (outside of the real world) can be understood as truth. Now, maybe this can be done, but this is also tricky because it's not shared between people and not very tangible. The way he presented it was in a Darwinian way: truth is anything that doesn't get you killed. This really doesn't make a whole lot of sense and didn't fly with Harris.
56   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Jan 25, 10:51pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

What's even better about Trump is the $50,000 my almost-entirely-index-fund investments have made.

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