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All-American Tariffs Imposed

By TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce following x   2018 Jan 23, 8:07am 9,676 views   94 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


I'm SO HAPPY with this President.



WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump on Monday approved tariffs on imported solar-energy components and large washing machines in a bid to help U.S. manufacturers.

The Republican’s decision followed recommendations for tariffs by the U.S. International Trade Commission.

“The president’s action makes clear again that the Trump administration will always defend American workers, farmers, ranchers, and businesses in this regard,” U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer said in a statement announcing the decision.

Most imported solar modules will face an immediate tariff of 30 percent, with the rate declining before phasing out after four years. For large residential washing machines, tariffs will start at up to 50 percent and phase out after three years.

China accused Trump of jeopardizing the multilateral trading system by taking action on complaints under U.S. law instead of through the World Trade Organization.

“The U.S. side once again abused its trade remedy measures,” said a Commerce Ministry statement. “China expresses its strong dissatisfaction with this.”

Mexico said Trump’s decision not to exclude it from the measures was “regrettable.”

“Mexico will use all available legal resources in response to the U.S. decision to apply protections on Mexican washing machines and solar panels,” its Economy Department said in a statement.

https://apnews.com/5f68ab2a45124b29be5dfbfc474dde73/Trump-hits-solar-panels,-washing-machines-with-tariffs

US Trade Rep Robert "Lightsaber" Lighthizer:
https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/press-releases/2018/january/president-trump-approves-relief-us#

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37   ThreeBays   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 24, 7:39am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I like front loaders as I believe they wash better. The tumbling motion gets clothes moving more. You can see this in many reviews. The recent HE front loaders also use a lot less water than top loaders. A complaint I've heard about front loaders getting mold around the door. We have an LG set that has a little mechanism to hold the door cracked open to dry, and never had a problem.
38   zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2018 Jan 24, 7:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

HEYYOU says
Find the same model for sale on Craigslist-appliances,garage sales & use it for parting out.
I've paid almost nothing for junk & repaired my other junk.


How do you know that the new donor appliance doesn't have the same problem?



HEYYOU says
One can repair almost anything using info from the web.


True, the internet helps greatly when repairing stuff.
39   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Jan 24, 8:12am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Front loader washers are the dirty ass-fuck business move of the century. I can't believe I bought into this bullshit, if you need a tub of water you do it fucking vertically, with a fucking drain at the bottom. fuck these fucking turds- my clothes aren't really clean or dry and my wife constantly bitches.

do they sell a machine I don't hear bitching about? Thats the one I want. I don't care if theres a 6" diameter x 24" long dildo that hits me in the face as I walk in from the garage, what I need is for this fucking noise to end.

The real solution is a washer/dryer combo, methinks. But everything is a piece of shit RV device; I want a 220V washer and a gas dryer that I push the button once and that shit is done. I even have space for two!
40   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Jan 24, 8:13am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

FNWGMOBDVZXDNW says
There's a financial calculator here:


If you're so concerned with the cost of washing clothes, maybe there's some BIGGER issues in your budget and income to worry about than water and detergent.

If doing a couple loads of laundry a week blows your budget because of costs, well, it's time for your husband to get a better job.
41   ThreeBays   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 24, 8:45am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

anon_23794 says
FNWGMOBDVZXDNW says
There's a financial calculator here:


If you're so concerned with the cost of washing clothes, maybe there's some BIGGER issues in your budget and income to worry about than water and detergent.

If doing a couple loads of laundry a week blows your budget because of costs, well, it's time for your husband to get a better job.


Do you call this advice?

Rich people save money... the broke spend it.
42   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 24, 9:10am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

anon_20dcf says
do they sell a machine I don't hear bitching about? Thats the one I want.


I hear great things about Speed Queen. Built to fucking last and do a great load of laundry.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/washingmachines/speed-queen-washers-built-to-last American made, 25 year lifespan. Your kids could inherit this bitch!
43   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2018 Jan 24, 9:57am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

anon_23794 says
If you're so concerned with the cost of washing clothes,
If you're so unconcerned about the topic of this conversation, which is the balance of operating costs and capital costs of appliances in general and washer/dryers in particular, then perhaps you should not participate in it.
This is a situation where some people are given the option to save money, be better for the environment, and have newer things, and they still say no. Sometimes, built to last forever is not always better.
44   DASKAA   ignore (3)   2018 Jan 24, 10:15am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

FNWGMOBDVZXDNW says
IIRC, when I purchased my first HE washer, the analysis showed that it would pay for itself in savings over a normal top loader without a particularly long life span.


Right. But the jump from 10y.o. HE washer to the latest stuff won't be anywhere close as dramatic. Therefore the argument that it's not really worth it to "upgrade" unless your existing machine is dead or dying.
45   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2018 Jan 24, 10:42am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Satoshi_Nakamoto says
Right. But the jump from 10y.o. HE washer to the latest stuff won't be anywhere close as dramatic. Therefore the argument that it's not really worth it to "upgrade" unless your existing machine is dead or dying.

I agree with that. I didn't upgrade for efficiency gains. I upgraded to get 35% savings on a new one (I couldn't do that if I waited until the current machine died) and to have a washer capacity that matched my new dryer capacity (nearly twice as large as the old one). My wife does the laundry, but I'd just assume she spend less time on it, and the extra capacity helps with that. The efficiency discussion was as it relates to Quigley's 20 yr old non HE machine. In that case, moving to an HE machine is not likely to actually cost Quigley money over the long term.

On a related subject, I often see people keeping old refrigerators running, because they are 'free'. That's just stupid.
46   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 29, 6:06am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

anonymous says
"all American jobs and keeping those profits in the U.S.


And why should the final destination of profits concern a working class person who may be employed in such a factory? Will he somehow benefit by having an American wealthy elite reap those profits over a foreign wealthy elite? If recent history is shown, the foreigner is more likely to reinvest those profits in his community.

All he cares about is if he will have a job.

Jobs are the ticket here, not profits.
47   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Jan 29, 7:54am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Finally they stand up to China, unlike Obama who just apologized 24/7.
48   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 29, 7:58am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

anonymous says
If LG abandons the plant - no jobs.


I’d like a rational explanation as to why they would do this. The article neglected to offer one, although they strongly hinted and spun the message that way. So perhaps you have personal insight? Why would LG stop ongoing plans to manufacture in the USA when the new tariff would strongly encourage them to double down on such plans?
‘Splain to me!
49   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Jan 29, 8:29am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

So putting tariffs on foreign made washing machines makes it less likely that LG will build them over here? Not sure that adds up, but I'm sure Kim McMillan (D) knows what she's talking about...
50   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 29, 8:52am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

I don’t see what they’re worried about? The washing machines made in the USA will be tariff free. So what da fuq? This tariff move only strengthens Clarksville’s position as a manufacturing hub. The investment already ongoing there will be even more important to LG to avoid tariffs. They may even double that investment in time, as a result of the protections.

Once again, a Leftist media org is spinning as hard as they can to make a positive into a negative, and BAO is taking it at face value. The facts are all there, hidden behind the spin!
51   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Jan 29, 8:53am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Quigley says
and BAO is taking it at face value


Let's not talk about the other users specifically, only their points.
52   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Jan 29, 8:54am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

ThreeBays says
If you're so concerned with the cost of washing clothes, maybe there's some BIGGER issues in your budget and income to worry about than water and detergent.

If doing a couple loads of laundry a week blows your budget because of costs, well, it's time for your husband to get a better job.


Do you call this advice?

Rich people save money... the broke spend it.


When was the last time you heard about a rich person worrying about the cost of doing laundry with electric, water and soap?

Heck, rich people HIRE people to do their laundry. Ever hear of housekeepers and domestic help? That costs a lot more than the operating costs of the washer and dryer.
53   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Jan 29, 8:54am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Quigley says
I’d like a rational explanation as to why they would do this. The article neglected to offer one, although they strongly hinted and spun the message that way. So perhaps you have personal insight? Why would LG stop ongoing plans to manufacture in the USA when the new tariff would strongly encourage them to double down on such plans?
‘Splain to me!


I don't necessarily agree, but I think the theory is that LG will lose market share before it can get the plant built and may not need the capacity in the US anymore.
54   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 5, 10:37am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Wait, so the still neoliberal heavy Congress wrote and passed the bill with a roll call vote but you're blaming the President?
55   HEYYOU   ignore (23)   2018 Mar 5, 11:22am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The fine print in any tariff bill will allow the 10% to avoid any cost that will reduce their profits.
Just like the stock market rule about no favoritism or advantage.
Bet Trump/family/ilk will not pay more to import their Communist built imports.
Great job creator for the Chinese.

Feux Follets says
Who is going to sign the bill ?


Guess you think you are clever just because you beat me to this. roflmao

Fuck! I used "you" 3 times. :-)
56   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (35)   2018 Mar 5, 11:34am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The fucking genius TRUMPLIGULA! will double the price of cars and large appliances.

Thank goodness you can buy cars at police auctions for $100 and just read up on foreclosures and break into the abandoned ones and rip out the washers and dryers and carry them off, exactly as the Founding Fathers instructed.

As ever:

Long: yams and all things belt-fed.
57   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 5, 11:35am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

IF he signs it. He might. But he'll have to do a lot of fucked up shit in addition to that to lose my support.

And any Democrat who votes for it in the Senate owns it too.
58   BlueSardine   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 5, 12:27pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Trump has already planted the seeds of tariff recall, based on NAFTA renegotiation.
This move was expected from those with brains larger than salted sunflower seeds.
OTOH, Libbies , with their limited dimensional capabilities, ignorant to the strategies in play, continue to shriek at every chess move like roaches running across the linoleum when the lights come on...
59   Booger   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 5, 4:26pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I could care less about what Angela Hitler and Justin Castreau think of us. What are they going to do, make us fuck their husbands?
60   Booger   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 5, 4:29pm   ↑ like (5)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The fact is that we have tried going the route of offshoring all of our materials manufacturing, and what did we get for it?

-Cheap, shitty consumer goods (think $24.99 blenders at Walmart)

-Massive outsourcing of middle class jobs

-An end to durable consumer products (why are there no repair shops for TVs or toasters anymore? Oh, right, because we just expect cheap Chinese shit to break in a year and then we go buy another one. So much for those cost savings.)

-An offshoring of massive amounts of pollution to China, where they manufacture this shit with 0 regulation, which is why people have to wear flu masks in Beijing, not to mention the environmental cost of shipping this shit back and forth across the Atlantic on barges the size of New Jersey that get 1000 ft/gallon of diesel fuel

-An overall declining standard of living, since we allow developing countries to absorb trillions of dollars in trade value that could have been realized domestically

Fuck this arrangement. We're not starting a trade war, there has always been a trade war- we just might stop losing for a change. The markets will hate it in the short term, but where archaic companies see a problem, new companies will see opportunity. As far as retaliation, what is China going to do- sell their cheap, shitty goods in the other largest consumer economy in the world? They need us more than we need them. This is a massive step in the right direction.
61   BlueSardine   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 5, 4:39pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

17 Diamond Encrusted Dimensions people...count em up!!
62   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 5, 5:02pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Booger says
not to mention the environmental cost of shipping this shit back and forth across the Atlantic on barges the size of New Jersey that get 1000 ft/gallon of diesel fuel


Moving a ship the size of New Jersey 1000ft/gallon is pretty efficient in all reality. Now if we can just literally remove New Jersey from our landmass and out to the sea. That would truly be winning.
63   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Mar 5, 6:41pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Booger says
Fuck this arrangement. We're not starting a trade war, there has always been a trade war- we just might stop losing for a change. The markets will hate it in the short term, but where archaic companies see a problem, new companies will see opportunity. As far as retaliation, what is China going to do- sell their cheap, shitty goods in the other largest consumer economy in the world? They need us more than we need them. This is a massive step in the right direction.


This guy gets it.
64   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Mar 5, 6:42pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
Now if we can just literally remove New Jersey from our landmass and out to the sea. That would truly be winning.


I can agree with that, just two things.

First, give me an hour or two head-start to get off. Second, make sure Phil Murphy is definitely on the landmass before it gets sent off.
65   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Mar 5, 6:42pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
The situation we are in is one of our doing, not the Chinese, Japanese, Germans, Russians, South Koreans, or anyone else. It is us.

Consumers want lower priced goods - we got it, along with a lot of things we didn't want.

Consumers wanted lower priced transportation - we have that now and not quite as wonderful as first promised.


This is what voting for Obama does for the country.

Feux Follets says
Don't like the outcome - vote first with your wallet and then at the voting booth


and that's how the country got Trump. Trump is the symptom, not the CAUSE.
66   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 5, 8:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
The steel industry jobs aren't coming back

The coal mining jobs aren't coming back

The aluminum smelters aren't going back to the way things were

If you liked the 1950s 1960s and 1970s - watch reruns on the television or the movies - that world just like the movie is Gone With The Wind


Ah, the classic Neoliberal Gloating remark.

When the Bushes, Clintons, and Gores slammed Perot, they didn't say America was Over, they said Free Trade, NAFTA, Open Borders would enhance the American Dream.

Now they say those policies must stay, even though they killed the American Dream.

So Trump got elected. And Italy kicked out the Old Guard. And Brexit Happened.

I say, the Americant Neolib-cons are going and they're not coming back. #MAGA !!!
67   Strategist   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 5, 9:08pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
The steel industry jobs aren't coming back

The coal mining jobs aren't coming back

The aluminum smelters aren't going back to the way things were


Good. We don't want those polluting industries to bring us jobs. Go work in a solar company.
68   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 6, 10:56am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
The neo-libs didn't kill the American Dreams.


They sure did, they further financialized the economy as part of the "High Tech Jobs of the Future" and "Financial Innovation" and "Modernizing Banking". Literally within a decade, we had two massive Bubbles and the Greatest Financial Crisis since the Great Depression.

Banks pushed Free Trade deals where we gave up our tariffs, but the banks got "Free Flow of Capital" and access to "International labor markets" but the tariffs and safety rules stayed up against our goods.

TenPoundBass put up an Al Gore video where he's arguing with Ross Perot in an attempt to convince CNN Viewers of Larry King (now a Putin agent apparently) that in order for US to sell more manufactured goods and create MORE manufacturing jobs by selling TO Mexico, NAFTA was necessary.

Banks then worked with other companies to outsource all the jobs abroad to take advantage of those "Free Capital Flows" and "Access to (Cheaper) Labor".

What is the Democratic Solution?

What is Kamala Harris or Corey Booker's plan to return middling jobs and return to a healthy economy?

In the Italy thread, you expressed concerned for the much coddled Banks being put at risk (after dumping the fallout from their big failed risks on two entire generations), the poor dears, by reformers. So I'm curious what your plan is.

Feux Follets says
It's going to get worse - not better. Much much worse...



Protecting our industry from unfair competition and the previous one-sided trade deals is the first step in Making America Great Again.

The tinkering with the minimum wage is not the solution, Job diversity and quality is.

Feux Follets says
Americans killed their own American Dreams with their wallets first, then their votes at the ballot box and failing to remove while in office or vote out "elected officials" who put something other than constituents and the country's best interest first.


The House of Representatives was solidly Democratic from the late 50s to 1994. So was the Senate except for a brief interlude in the mid 80s.

When the Democrats finally lost the House, Neoliberalism was already becoming the default economic position of both parties. Many of the Dems that are running the party today, like Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, were "Aye" on NAFTA. A few years later and the overwhelming majority of Dems in both Senate and House voted "YES" to the Financial Services Act.

We armed,fed, and clothed ourselves and half of Britain and a great deal of the USSR in WW2. After the war we built countless miles of highway and suburbia, put men on the moon, and stuffed said suburbia with Televisions, Radios, Fridges, Washing Machines, TV Dinners, Lightbulbs, Air Conditioners, etc. with all but a token percent being designed, built, and distributed within the USA.

If we did it in the Analog era where the few computers took up 1000s of square feet had armed guards and were less powerful than a VIC-20, when China was starving and had just failed in a bizarre campaign to make steel in every village, we can certainly do again today.

Let's restore the American Dream for Americans, before we invite millions of others to partake in something that no longer exists.
69   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 7, 9:49am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Pressed for time today.

No worries.

Feux Follets says
"IF" we are going to be great again - how do we achieve that at minimum wage ?


Not possible. One of the driving factors of the 50s and 60s was high demand, low labor supply. It makes companies train employees, pay them well to avoid turnover, and it can only happen if we restrict Corporate/Neoliberal gaming of the "Global Labor Market". Tariffs and restricting immigration is the only way to do it.
70   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 12, 11:46am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
That's pretty funny too. No chance it was the Steelworkers Union, OCAW, Autoworkers Union, any other union including the Longshoreman's Union who love to hold the country hostage on a whim - pretty much anything decent that is out there today is a result of union activity including wages and benefits.



More confirmation that the Democrats have abandoned working America, and are more worried about those poor foreign multinational company importers
71   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 12, 11:47am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Grade "A" Tumponian Bullshit of the Finest Quality.


"That's not an argument, that's mere contradiction."
"No it isn't."
"An argument is a series of ..."
72   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 12, 12:05pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Problem with your hypothesis is that several Mills just re-opened across the nation. Each one of these represents hundreds of good paying jobs.

Ohio
http://nbc4i.com/2018/03/08/republic-steel-planning-to-reopen-ohio-plant-after-pres-trump-announced-tariffs/
Illinois
https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2018/03/07/trumps-tariff-leads-u-s-steel-to-reopen-big.html
South Carolina
http://www.live5news.com/story/13893076/georgetown-steel-mill-to-reopen

And yes, America's cheap electricity is a competitive advantage on China especially, where the average KwH is higher and less competitive.

Feux Follets says
For what it's worth this is another industry that isn't coming back to it's glory days


Why not? Canada is the #3 Aluminium Producer.

Do Canadians live in tin roof shacks, heating their homes with moose dung? Australia and Norway are also in the top 10. Those Aussies and Norwegians working 72 hour weeks in unheated dormitories? How about Iceland? Those Icelanders laboring under a whip with no pollution laws, as they make $1/hr?
73   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 12, 12:21pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Obviously this is wasted - these smelters run on electricity, lots of it, We do not have cheap electricity all over. Canada has a abundance of dirt cheap hydro produced electric power.


The US has some of the cheapest electric in the world, about half the OECD average.



This explains why Canada and Norway are big Aluminium producers, and why we are also.
74   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Mar 12, 2:45pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

If Trump actually wanted jobs, he’d end Cannabis Prohibition as it’s ALREADY a 50+ Billion $ industry that would employ millions, stamp out the opioid epidemic, and cut the legs out from Big Pharma, all while restoring lonf lost Liberties and Freedoms- the definition of Making America Great Again

Instead, you have Trump fanboys doing extreme gymnastics over a few hundred jobs that come at a cost
75   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 12, 4:08pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Chant MAGA until your blue in the face, chant WINNING as well to the same result - these jobs are not coming back in any meaningful way no matter how Breitbart spins it or the administration spins it or Potus lies outright and tells you they are.



The jobs are coming back. A very modest tariff and they're roaring back in mere days.

We're not going to repeat the failed trade policies of the past 25 years, which were originally sold as expanding US Manufacturing Jobs but were crafted by Multinationals, Foreign Government Lobbyists, and Wall Street to maximize labor arbitrage almost wholly at the expense of the US Middle Class.

When you find yourself in a hole, the first thing is stop digging.

If expensive Norway and Canada can make Aluminium, so can we. Hell, we're still in the top 10.

Maybe we need to build new plants, I'm down with that. Molten Salt Reactors, since nothing else will scale with future energy demand anyway. Maybe more Hydro, but we'll have to rocket past Environmental Challenges, funded by nefarious Multinational Interests who want to hamstring the Competition, ie the USA.

In fact, a ban on any lobbying by non-US Citizens and non-Domestic HQ'd companies would be a great step.

China is #1 Aluminium Producer, but do you know the only reason China is #1? Hint: Cough Cough

Middle America is in Crisis. We can no longer listen to the False Song of Globalism.
76   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Mar 12, 9:08pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Based on the most recently completed plants, an estimated $1.5 billion would be required. Add to this the requirement that this new smelter have its own electricity-generating facilities to service it.


And yet, the Chinese produce a shitload of aluminum, even though we're a far, far, wealthier country. And they've been building them like crazy over the past 25 years.

So not buying the cost excuse. If China can afford 'em, we definitely can.


Feux Follets says
Out steel industry and aluminum industries are not competitive with state of the art facilities.


You're stuck in the 80s. American factories weren't all that outdated to big with and now they simply aren't dated at all. Almost all steel made today - including in the USA - is created for very narrow, tailored usage.

In any case, Germany and Japan were making steel in the 19th Century, if they updated their plants... so can we.

And Chinese factories are full to the brim of "Gorky Machine Tools, All Power to the Soviet, 1948" and "Ten Thousand Years Health to Mao Tse Tung, 1954." ancient rusty behemoths. I know this because I used to follow a site that a few years ago that investigated Chinese companies trying to list on the NASDAQ. They'd do shit like slap a calculator on the side, paint it crisp white, and say, "You look, Gwai Lo. Modern Equipment! Digital! Our factory modern with World War 2 Lenning--- I mean brand new Japanese Roller straight from Yokohama!"

What do you think the Chinese do when they buy up US Mills? They take all the machinery they can possibly break down back to China to replace their ancient Soviet Equipment they brought in the 90s when Russia was a free-for-all.

Feux Follets says
Such cumulative considerations, when combined with the availability of needed energy at a competitive price, lend some credence to the often heard statements that another aluminum smelter will not be built in the United States.


Uh, they're building a brand new smelter.


MARSTON, Mo. — A new aluminum smelter will open in the Missouri Bootheel region in May, replacing roughly half of the jobs lost when another smelter shut down two years ago.

Magnitude 7 Metals plans to hire 450 people for its plant in the former Noranda Aluminum smelter in New Madrid County,
near the tiny town of Marston, about 150 miles south of St. Louis. CEO Bob Prusak said 140 people have already been hired. One line of the plant will open in May, and the s\econd in November.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/03/09/us/ap-us-aluminum-plant-greitens.html

Try giving it more than a few days. It took decades for Wall Street to trade off US jobs and factories for ownership of foreign assets and free capital flows.

Feux Follets says
Less than a 1,000 jobs is not roaring back and failure to keep in mind this is very cyclical environment does not bode well for investing large sums of money in new facilities when you don't have to. Cheaper to buy it from someone else who has their money tied up in large capital expenditures which frees you to do something else.


I count way over 1000 and it's not a week yet. And, these are just the direct jobs, not the knock-on effects from shipping the finished materials to servicing the trucks that ship the material, to the waitresses at the lunchonette near the mill.

Feux Follets says
Cheaper to buy it from someone else who has their money tied up in large capital expenditures which frees you to do something else.


Looking forward to the South Sea Crisis with the Chinese, where we build ships out of printed Goldman Sachs T&Cs from some MBS and some Century 21 Sale Signs.

"Ha! China, our new Tweet Destroyers launch 100 likes at you. And, our new AI Legal department is filing at the Hague with all kinds of charges. Bet your D-21 missile can't shoot that down. We'd throw plastic ninja stars at you, but realized the components in the 3D printer was all made in China, it's broke and we don't have the industrial base to fix it."

That aside, a country of 350M people can't prosper on nothing but office and coffee jobs.

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