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All-American Tariffs Imposed

By TwoScoopsOfWompWomp following x   2018 Jan 23, 8:07am 4,995 views   119 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


I'm SO HAPPY with this President.



WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump on Monday approved tariffs on imported solar-energy components and large washing machines in a bid to help U.S. manufacturers.

The Republican’s decision followed recommendations for tariffs by the U.S. International Trade Commission.

“The president’s action makes clear again that the Trump administration will always defend American workers, farmers, ranchers, and businesses in this regard,” U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer said in a statement announcing the decision.

Most imported solar modules will face an immediate tariff of 30 percent, with the rate declining before phasing out after four years. For large residential washing machines, tariffs will start at up to 50 percent and phase out after three years.

China accused Trump of jeopardizing the multilateral trading system by taking action on complaints under U.S. law instead of through the World Trade Organization.

“The U.S. side once again abused its trade remedy measures,” said a Commerce Ministry statement. “China expresses its strong dissatisfaction with this.”

Mexico said Trump’s decision not to exclude it from the measures was “regrettable.”

“Mexico will use all available legal resources in response to the U.S. decision to apply protections on Mexican washing machines and solar panels,” its Economy Department said in a statement.

https://apnews.com/5f68ab2a45124b29be5dfbfc474dde73/Trump-hits-solar-panels,-washing-machines-with-tariffs

US Trade Rep Robert "Lightsaber" Lighthizer:
https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/press-releases/2018/january/president-trump-approves-relief-us#

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37   ThreeBays   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 24, 7:39am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I like front loaders as I believe they wash better. The tumbling motion gets clothes moving more. You can see this in many reviews. The recent HE front loaders also use a lot less water than top loaders. A complaint I've heard about front loaders getting mold around the door. We have an LG set that has a little mechanism to hold the door cracked open to dry, and never had a problem.
38   zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2018 Jan 24, 7:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

HEYYOU says
Find the same model for sale on Craigslist-appliances,garage sales & use it for parting out.
I've paid almost nothing for junk & repaired my other junk.


How do you know that the new donor appliance doesn't have the same problem?



HEYYOU says
One can repair almost anything using info from the web.


True, the internet helps greatly when repairing stuff.
39   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Jan 24, 8:12am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Front loader washers are the dirty ass-fuck business move of the century. I can't believe I bought into this bullshit, if you need a tub of water you do it fucking vertically, with a fucking drain at the bottom. fuck these fucking turds- my clothes aren't really clean or dry and my wife constantly bitches.

do they sell a machine I don't hear bitching about? Thats the one I want. I don't care if theres a 6" diameter x 24" long dildo that hits me in the face as I walk in from the garage, what I need is for this fucking noise to end.

The real solution is a washer/dryer combo, methinks. But everything is a piece of shit RV device; I want a 220V washer and a gas dryer that I push the button once and that shit is done. I even have space for two!
40   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Jan 24, 8:13am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

FNWGMOBDVZXDNW says
There's a financial calculator here:


If you're so concerned with the cost of washing clothes, maybe there's some BIGGER issues in your budget and income to worry about than water and detergent.

If doing a couple loads of laundry a week blows your budget because of costs, well, it's time for your husband to get a better job.
41   ThreeBays   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 24, 8:45am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

anon_23794 says
FNWGMOBDVZXDNW says
There's a financial calculator here:


If you're so concerned with the cost of washing clothes, maybe there's some BIGGER issues in your budget and income to worry about than water and detergent.

If doing a couple loads of laundry a week blows your budget because of costs, well, it's time for your husband to get a better job.


Do you call this advice?

Rich people save money... the broke spend it.
42   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 24, 9:10am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

anon_20dcf says
do they sell a machine I don't hear bitching about? Thats the one I want.


I hear great things about Speed Queen. Built to fucking last and do a great load of laundry.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/washingmachines/speed-queen-washers-built-to-last American made, 25 year lifespan. Your kids could inherit this bitch!
43   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2018 Jan 24, 9:57am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

anon_23794 says
If you're so concerned with the cost of washing clothes,
If you're so unconcerned about the topic of this conversation, which is the balance of operating costs and capital costs of appliances in general and washer/dryers in particular, then perhaps you should not participate in it.
This is a situation where some people are given the option to save money, be better for the environment, and have newer things, and they still say no. Sometimes, built to last forever is not always better.
44   Hassan_Rouhani   ignore (2)   2018 Jan 24, 10:15am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

FNWGMOBDVZXDNW says
IIRC, when I purchased my first HE washer, the analysis showed that it would pay for itself in savings over a normal top loader without a particularly long life span.


Right. But the jump from 10y.o. HE washer to the latest stuff won't be anywhere close as dramatic. Therefore the argument that it's not really worth it to "upgrade" unless your existing machine is dead or dying.
45   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2018 Jan 24, 10:42am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Satoshi_Nakamoto says
Right. But the jump from 10y.o. HE washer to the latest stuff won't be anywhere close as dramatic. Therefore the argument that it's not really worth it to "upgrade" unless your existing machine is dead or dying.

I agree with that. I didn't upgrade for efficiency gains. I upgraded to get 35% savings on a new one (I couldn't do that if I waited until the current machine died) and to have a washer capacity that matched my new dryer capacity (nearly twice as large as the old one). My wife does the laundry, but I'd just assume she spend less time on it, and the extra capacity helps with that. The efficiency discussion was as it relates to Quigley's 20 yr old non HE machine. In that case, moving to an HE machine is not likely to actually cost Quigley money over the long term.

On a related subject, I often see people keeping old refrigerators running, because they are 'free'. That's just stupid.
46   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 29, 6:06am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

anonymous says
"all American jobs and keeping those profits in the U.S.


And why should the final destination of profits concern a working class person who may be employed in such a factory? Will he somehow benefit by having an American wealthy elite reap those profits over a foreign wealthy elite? If recent history is shown, the foreigner is more likely to reinvest those profits in his community.

All he cares about is if he will have a job.

Jobs are the ticket here, not profits.
47   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Jan 29, 7:54am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Finally they stand up to China, unlike Obama who just apologized 24/7.
48   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 29, 7:58am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

anonymous says
If LG abandons the plant - no jobs.


I’d like a rational explanation as to why they would do this. The article neglected to offer one, although they strongly hinted and spun the message that way. So perhaps you have personal insight? Why would LG stop ongoing plans to manufacture in the USA when the new tariff would strongly encourage them to double down on such plans?
‘Splain to me!
49   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Jan 29, 8:29am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

So putting tariffs on foreign made washing machines makes it less likely that LG will build them over here? Not sure that adds up, but I'm sure Kim McMillan (D) knows what she's talking about...
50   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 29, 8:52am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

I don’t see what they’re worried about? The washing machines made in the USA will be tariff free. So what da fuq? This tariff move only strengthens Clarksville’s position as a manufacturing hub. The investment already ongoing there will be even more important to LG to avoid tariffs. They may even double that investment in time, as a result of the protections.

Once again, a Leftist media org is spinning as hard as they can to make a positive into a negative, and BAO is taking it at face value. The facts are all there, hidden behind the spin!
51   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Jan 29, 8:53am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Quigley says
and BAO is taking it at face value


Let's not talk about the other users specifically, only their points.
52   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Jan 29, 8:54am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

ThreeBays says
If you're so concerned with the cost of washing clothes, maybe there's some BIGGER issues in your budget and income to worry about than water and detergent.

If doing a couple loads of laundry a week blows your budget because of costs, well, it's time for your husband to get a better job.


Do you call this advice?

Rich people save money... the broke spend it.


When was the last time you heard about a rich person worrying about the cost of doing laundry with electric, water and soap?

Heck, rich people HIRE people to do their laundry. Ever hear of housekeepers and domestic help? That costs a lot more than the operating costs of the washer and dryer.
53   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Jan 29, 8:54am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Quigley says
I’d like a rational explanation as to why they would do this. The article neglected to offer one, although they strongly hinted and spun the message that way. So perhaps you have personal insight? Why would LG stop ongoing plans to manufacture in the USA when the new tariff would strongly encourage them to double down on such plans?
‘Splain to me!


I don't necessarily agree, but I think the theory is that LG will lose market share before it can get the plant built and may not need the capacity in the US anymore.
54   Feux Follets   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 5, 1:56am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

TwoScoopsPlissken says
I'm SO HAPPY with this President.


Michael Korchmar was hiring. His family-owned travel-goods company was planning to make a new product, an insulated food bag, and he had put out help-wanted notices for up to 30 workers to run the sewing machines in his small factory on Florida’s Gulf Coast.

Those plans are now on hold. The reason: a bill quietly moving through Congress that would temporarily reduce or eliminate protective tariffs on 1,662 products, including the type of bag Korchmar had planned to produce. The bill would cut costs for rivals who make their bags in low-cost countries like China, he said, squeezing him out of the market before he had even entered it.

“Given that these products will be able to come into the country duty free, it’s not likely that there’s any ability for us to compete,” Korchmar said in a recent interview at his factory, which currently employs about 20 people.

Even as President Trump threatens to slap protective tariffs on steel and aluminum, lawmakers are moving forward with legislation to lower trade barriers on hundreds of other products, from chemicals to toasters, in a bid to lower costs for U.S. companies and consumers.

Supporters of the so-called miscellaneous tariff bill, which unanimously passed the House of Representatives in January, say it would boost the economy by getting rid of tariffs designed to protect U.S. industries that no longer exist. The National Association of Manufacturers says U.S. companies pay hundreds of millions of dollars each year on unnecessary import fees.

Critics say that miscellaneous tariff bills, which began decades ago as modest efforts to help U.S. manufacturers, have in recent years become sprawling packages of tariff reductions that undercut domestic producers without the means to defend their interests in Washington.

Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown, a Democrat who worked to get several products removed from the current bill, said Congress should do a better job to ensure tariff reductions do not impede U.S. producers. “Miscellaneous Tariff Bills should help, not hurt American manufacturers,” Brown said in a statement to Reuters.

Kansas City dentist Don Closson, who makes athletic mouth guards at a Colorado factory, and Paul Cacciotti, who manufactures fingernail clippers in upstate New York, also said they were unaware the bill contained items competing with those they make.

“Many American manufacturing companies have been put out of business due to free trade agreements and tariff reductions, and you think the politicians would have learned a lesson from past experience,” Cacciotti said.

The bill’s supporters say that businesses have only themselves to blame if they do not defend their interests in Washington.

“If somebody doesn’t know about something, that’s a shame, but that might mean that they didn’t take steps to stay informed,” said Stephen Lamar, executive vice president of the American Apparel and Footwear Association.

Norman Cook, executive vice president of Genfoot America Inc does not think it is that simple. Genfoot, which employs 200 people at a New Hampshire boot factory, managed to block 22 types of footwear on the grounds that they were too similar to products the company makes domestically. But the bill still includes 42 other types of boots and shoes that Genfoot sees as a threat to its business.

“It’s supposed to help manufacturers, not eliminate them,” Cook said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-congress-tariffs-analysis/as-congress-moves-to-drop-tariffs-some-u-s-firms-cry-foul-idUSKBN1GH0LF

Winning for the Mom & Pops, American Manufacturing and bringing those jobs back eh ?

Sure good the little guys are doing their part of make the country great again isn't it ?
55   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 5, 10:37am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Wait, so the still neoliberal heavy Congress wrote and passed the bill with a roll call vote but you're blaming the President?
56   Feux Follets   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 5, 10:58am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Who is going to sign the bill ?
57   HEYYOU   ignore (13)   2018 Mar 5, 11:22am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

The fine print in any tariff bill will allow the 10% to avoid any cost that will reduce their profits.
Just like the stock market rule about no favoritism or advantage.
Bet Trump/family/ilk will not pay more to import their Communist built imports.
Great job creator for the Chinese.

Feux Follets says
Who is going to sign the bill ?


Guess you think you are clever just because you beat me to this. roflmao

Fuck! I used "you" 3 times. :-)
58   Feux Follets   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 5, 11:25am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

TwoScoopsPlissken says
but you're blaming the President


Potus signs it, Potus owns it.
59   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (30)   2018 Mar 5, 11:34am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

The fucking genius TRUMPLIGULA! will double the price of cars and large appliances.

Thank goodness you can buy cars at police auctions for $100 and just read up on foreclosures and break into the abandoned ones and rip out the washers and dryers and carry them off, exactly as the Founding Fathers instructed.

As ever:

Long: yams and all things belt-fed.
60   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 5, 11:35am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

IF he signs it. He might. But he'll have to do a lot of fucked up shit in addition to that to lose my support.

And any Democrat who votes for it in the Senate owns it too.
61   BlueSardine   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 5, 12:27pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Trump has already planted the seeds of tariff recall, based on NAFTA renegotiation.
This move was expected from those with brains larger than salted sunflower seeds.
OTOH, Libbies , with their limited dimensional capabilities, ignorant to the strategies in play, continue to shriek at every chess move like roaches running across the linoleum when the lights come on...
62   Booger   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 5, 4:26pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I could care less about what Angela Hitler and Justin Castreau think of us. What are they going to do, make us fuck their husbands?
63   Booger   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 5, 4:29pm   ↑ like (5)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

The fact is that we have tried going the route of offshoring all of our materials manufacturing, and what did we get for it?

-Cheap, shitty consumer goods (think $24.99 blenders at Walmart)

-Massive outsourcing of middle class jobs

-An end to durable consumer products (why are there no repair shops for TVs or toasters anymore? Oh, right, because we just expect cheap Chinese shit to break in a year and then we go buy another one. So much for those cost savings.)

-An offshoring of massive amounts of pollution to China, where they manufacture this shit with 0 regulation, which is why people have to wear flu masks in Beijing, not to mention the environmental cost of shipping this shit back and forth across the Atlantic on barges the size of New Jersey that get 1000 ft/gallon of diesel fuel

-An overall declining standard of living, since we allow developing countries to absorb trillions of dollars in trade value that could have been realized domestically

Fuck this arrangement. We're not starting a trade war, there has always been a trade war- we just might stop losing for a change. The markets will hate it in the short term, but where archaic companies see a problem, new companies will see opportunity. As far as retaliation, what is China going to do- sell their cheap, shitty goods in the other largest consumer economy in the world? They need us more than we need them. This is a massive step in the right direction.
64   BlueSardine   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 5, 4:39pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

17 Diamond Encrusted Dimensions people...count em up!!
65   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 5, 5:02pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Booger says
not to mention the environmental cost of shipping this shit back and forth across the Atlantic on barges the size of New Jersey that get 1000 ft/gallon of diesel fuel


Moving a ship the size of New Jersey 1000ft/gallon is pretty efficient in all reality. Now if we can just literally remove New Jersey from our landmass and out to the sea. That would truly be winning.
66   Feux Follets   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 5, 6:02pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Booger says
They need us more than we need them


"We" need each other but if seeking someone with who the fault lies - it is with me, you and everyone else who votes both with their wallet as well as at the voting booth.

The situation we are in is one of our doing, not the Chinese, Japanese, Germans, Russians, South Koreans, or anyone else. It is us.

Consumers want lower priced goods - we got it, along with a lot of things we didn't want.

Consumers wanted lower priced transportation - we have that now and not quite as wonderful as first promised.

Consumers set the demand - companies and government's deliver.

Don't like the outcome - vote first with your wallet and then at the voting booth however some things are not coming back - ever.
67   Feux Follets   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 5, 6:08pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Before Pushing Tariffs, Wilbur Ross Had a Messy History With the U.S. Steel Industry.

Among the people behind President Donald Trump’s plan to impose steep tariffs on steel was Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross. On February 16, Ross released a Commerce Department report finding that the amount of steel imported to the United States threatens “to impair the national security.”

The problem, according to the report, is that while steel is necessary for our defense and infrastructure, the U.S. doesn’t produce enough of it. In recent years, foreign countries have developed a much greater steel production capacity than the U.S.

“On an average month, China produces nearly as much steel as the U.S. does in a year,” a press release accompanying the report explained.

What’s not mentioned in the report is that Ross, whose net worth is estimated at around $700 million, made a good chunk of that fortune selling U.S. steel companies to a foreign entity.

In 2002, Ross and his investing partners began buying up steel companies that were either in or near bankruptcy, including LTV Corp., Weirton, and Bethlehem Steel. They consolidated them into the International Steel Group and, in 2004, sold that company to the Indian steel magnate Lakshmi Mittal, making some $2 billion in cash on the deal.

Mittal, who lives in the U.K., also profited handsomely. After he bought ISG, his Rotterdam-based company became the largest steel producer in the world and Forbes deemed Mittal himself, who had just thrown his daughter a $60 million wedding, the third richest person in the world.

In an email, a Commerce Department spokesperson wrote that foreign investment “in no way undermines” the report’s assessment that steel imports are a threat to national security or the determination that action is needed to curtail them.

At the time of the ISG sale, the Washington Post noted that Ross was able to make a stunning 12-fold gain on his initial investment in part by not paying steel workers’ pensions and retiree health care costs. But there was another way that Ross maximized his profits: by not putting up millions of dollars to ensure that the environmental messes associated with the plants he bought would be cleaned up.

Several state and federal environmental laws require owners of industrial properties to place bonds to cover the estimated future costs of cleaning the sites. The government had requested $162 million from Bethlehem Steel to clean nine Superfund sites associated with the company, according to a 2007 report by the Center for Public Integrity, but the bankrupt steel company wound up negotiating a deal that was worth “$9,000 at the end of the bankruptcy process, or three-tenths of a cent on the dollar.”

The agreement ISG made with Bethlehem Steel in 2003, which was approved by a U.S. bankruptcy court, minimized the company’s responsibility for pollution that had happened before the sale.

Many companies have used bankruptcy filings to evade financial responsibility for pollution. But, while one judge approved the limitation of ISG’s environmental responsibility, another lamented it. “An agreement between private parties to restrict liability for violation of federal and state environmental laws may well be contrary to public policy,” as U.S. District Judge J. Frederick Motz wrote in a 2011 ruling about cleanup of one of the former Bethlehem Steel mills.

A 2005 Environmental Protection Agency inspector general’s report explained that, while such attempts to dodge cleanup costs may be difficult to litigate, some of these arrangements violate federal law. The report urged the EPA to work harder to ensure that companies put down enough money to cover cleanup costs that can arise even after plants close. That didn’t happen in the ISG case.

Full Article: https://theintercept.com/2018/03/05/steel-tariffs-wilbur-ross-pollution/?comments=1#comments
68   Feux Follets   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 5, 6:14pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Regardless of how many times someone or groups chant Winning, MAGA Etc.

The steel industry jobs aren't coming back

The coal mining jobs aren't coming back

The aluminum smelters aren't going back to the way things were

If you liked the 1950s 1960s and 1970s - watch reruns on the television or the movies - that world just like the movie is Gone With The Wind
69   Sniper   ignore (11)   2018 Mar 5, 6:41pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Booger says
Fuck this arrangement. We're not starting a trade war, there has always been a trade war- we just might stop losing for a change. The markets will hate it in the short term, but where archaic companies see a problem, new companies will see opportunity. As far as retaliation, what is China going to do- sell their cheap, shitty goods in the other largest consumer economy in the world? They need us more than we need them. This is a massive step in the right direction.


This guy gets it.
70   Sniper   ignore (11)   2018 Mar 5, 6:42pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

WookieMan says
Now if we can just literally remove New Jersey from our landmass and out to the sea. That would truly be winning.


I can agree with that, just two things.

First, give me an hour or two head-start to get off. Second, make sure Phil Murphy is definitely on the landmass before it gets sent off.
71   Sniper   ignore (11)   2018 Mar 5, 6:42pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Feux Follets says
The situation we are in is one of our doing, not the Chinese, Japanese, Germans, Russians, South Koreans, or anyone else. It is us.

Consumers want lower priced goods - we got it, along with a lot of things we didn't want.

Consumers wanted lower priced transportation - we have that now and not quite as wonderful as first promised.


This is what voting for Obama does for the country.

Feux Follets says
Don't like the outcome - vote first with your wallet and then at the voting booth


and that's how the country got Trump. Trump is the symptom, not the CAUSE.
72   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 5, 8:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Feux Follets says
The steel industry jobs aren't coming back

The coal mining jobs aren't coming back

The aluminum smelters aren't going back to the way things were

If you liked the 1950s 1960s and 1970s - watch reruns on the television or the movies - that world just like the movie is Gone With The Wind


Ah, the classic Neoliberal Gloating remark.

When the Bushes, Clintons, and Gores slammed Perot, they didn't say America was Over, they said Free Trade, NAFTA, Open Borders would enhance the American Dream.

Now they say those policies must stay, even though they killed the American Dream.

So Trump got elected. And Italy kicked out the Old Guard. And Brexit Happened.

I say, the Americant Neolib-cons are going and they're not coming back. #MAGA !!!
73   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 5, 9:08pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Feux Follets says
The steel industry jobs aren't coming back

The coal mining jobs aren't coming back

The aluminum smelters aren't going back to the way things were


Good. We don't want those polluting industries to bring us jobs. Go work in a solar company.
74   Feux Follets   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 5, 10:57pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote        

Problems started way before Obama, way before. Think angry autoworkers taking sledge hammers to Toyotas etc.

The big three made crappy shitty cars (and still do) and someone else came along with something better. The problem wasn't the big three, it was the makes of "something better" supposedly.

Unions getting eviscerated. Steel Industry collapse (both happened in the early to mid 80s - the Reagan era)

U.S. claiming foul because Asia doesn't want to buy shitty American made cars from the big three.

U.S. silent because Asia making quality American cars in the lower 48, employing Americans and sending profits back to home country.

Buy American made Harleys of dubious quality, overpriced with electrical components made overseas ....

Definitely Obama's fault.
75   Feux Follets   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 5, 11:03pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote        

Gloating remarks about what isn't coming back ? Nothing to gloat about - the horse left the proverbial barn a long time ago.

Anyone paying attention to what happened from the mid-70s onward could have called things but sheep like to listen to the soothing sound of the herder's call and get comfort in believing that everything is safe and well.

The neo-libs didn't kill the American Dreams.

Neither the left nor the right killed the American Dreams by themselves - they had tons of help

The unions didn't kill the American Dreams - at least not by themselves, management certainly helped every step of the way.

The regulations didn't kill the American Dreams - companies are still thriving and profitable even in California despite all of the regulations.

Americans killed their own American Dreams with their wallets first, then their votes at the ballot box and failing to remove while in office or vote out "elected officials" who put something other than constituents and the country's best interest first.

American Management or rather the Mismanagement of American companies helped as much if not more than American's and their wallets.

Greed in all of it's nefarious modes and degrees helped kill the American Dreams

It's going to get worse - not better. Much much worse...
76   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 6, 10:56am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Feux Follets says
The neo-libs didn't kill the American Dreams.


They sure did, they further financialized the economy as part of the "High Tech Jobs of the Future" and "Financial Innovation" and "Modernizing Banking". Literally within a decade, we had two massive Bubbles and the Greatest Financial Crisis since the Great Depression.

Banks pushed Free Trade deals where we gave up our tariffs, but the banks got "Free Flow of Capital" and access to "International labor markets" but the tariffs and safety rules stayed up against our goods.

TenPoundBass put up an Al Gore video where he's arguing with Ross Perot in an attempt to convince CNN Viewers of Larry King (now a Putin agent apparently) that in order for US to sell more manufactured goods and create MORE manufacturing jobs by selling TO Mexico, NAFTA was necessary.

Banks then worked with other companies to outsource all the jobs abroad to take advantage of those "Free Capital Flows" and "Access to (Cheaper) Labor".

What is the Democratic Solution?

What is Kamala Harris or Corey Booker's plan to return middling jobs and return to a healthy economy?

In the Italy thread, you expressed concerned for the much coddled Banks being put at risk (after dumping the fallout from their big failed risks on two entire generations), the poor dears, by reformers. So I'm curious what your plan is.

Feux Follets says
It's going to get worse - not better. Much much worse...



Protecting our industry from unfair competition and the previous one-sided trade deals is the first step in Making America Great Again.

The tinkering with the minimum wage is not the solution, Job diversity and quality is.

Feux Follets says
Americans killed their own American Dreams with their wallets first, then their votes at the ballot box and failing to remove while in office or vote out "elected officials" who put something other than constituents and the country's best interest first.


The House of Representatives was solidly Democratic from the late 50s to 1994. So was the Senate except for a brief interlude in the mid 80s.

When the Democrats finally lost the House, Neoliberalism was already becoming the default economic position of both parties. Many of the Dems that are running the party today, like Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, were "Aye" on NAFTA. A few years later and the overwhelming majority of Dems in both Senate and House voted "YES" to the Financial Services Act.

We armed,fed, and clothed ourselves and half of Britain and a great deal of the USSR in WW2. After the war we built countless miles of highway and suburbia, put men on the moon, and stuffed said suburbia with Televisions, Radios, Fridges, Washing Machines, TV Dinners, Lightbulbs, Air Conditioners, etc. with all but a token percent being designed, built, and distributed within the USA.

If we did it in the Analog era where the few computers took up 1000s of square feet had armed guards and were less powerful than a VIC-20, when China was starving and had just failed in a bizarre campaign to make steel in every village, we can certainly do again today.

Let's restore the American Dream for Americans, before we invite millions of others to partake in something that no longer exists.

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