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All-American Tariffs Imposed

By TwoScoopsOfWompWomp following x   2018 Jan 23, 8:07am 5,544 views   94 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


I'm SO HAPPY with this President.



WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump on Monday approved tariffs on imported solar-energy components and large washing machines in a bid to help U.S. manufacturers.

The Republican’s decision followed recommendations for tariffs by the U.S. International Trade Commission.

“The president’s action makes clear again that the Trump administration will always defend American workers, farmers, ranchers, and businesses in this regard,” U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer said in a statement announcing the decision.

Most imported solar modules will face an immediate tariff of 30 percent, with the rate declining before phasing out after four years. For large residential washing machines, tariffs will start at up to 50 percent and phase out after three years.

China accused Trump of jeopardizing the multilateral trading system by taking action on complaints under U.S. law instead of through the World Trade Organization.

“The U.S. side once again abused its trade remedy measures,” said a Commerce Ministry statement. “China expresses its strong dissatisfaction with this.”

Mexico said Trump’s decision not to exclude it from the measures was “regrettable.”

“Mexico will use all available legal resources in response to the U.S. decision to apply protections on Mexican washing machines and solar panels,” its Economy Department said in a statement.

https://apnews.com/5f68ab2a45124b29be5dfbfc474dde73/Trump-hits-solar-panels,-washing-machines-with-tariffs

US Trade Rep Robert "Lightsaber" Lighthizer:
https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/press-releases/2018/january/president-trump-approves-relief-us#

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81   zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 13, 10:13am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Feux Follets says
They also require something to power them and that would be ?

Electricity ! And the fucking shit is expensive and if the largest customer drops off line, guess who gets to pick up the tab ?


At the steel mill that I used to work at, Bethlehem Steel Sparrows Point, MD, sure electricity was used in the plant, but IIRC the fuel used to heat up the ore was coal converted into coke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_furnace

Now at a mini-mill, yes, they use electricity.
82   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 13, 12:30pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Feux Follets says
Never said there wasn't enough - just not enough at the right price. Very key element - the price.


And I showed that we have the 3rd lowest average electric rates among the OECD, and it's nowhere near based on 72% from Coal like China.


It's so bad they actually turn off smelters and coal plants in the winter time because the smog makes it almost impossible even for healthy young people to function.

Feux Follets says
The problem is here, not there.


No it's not. The only countries with a higher per capita electric generation rate are either less populous Oil Rich Gulf States and the thinly populated Hydro/Geothermal Powers: Iceland, Norway, Canada, Finland.

No country anywhere near our size, population, and level of development has both Cheap and Plentiful Electric like we do.

Almost 5x the electric generation per head than China.

It's a competitive advantage FOR the USA: We've got the Power.
83   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 13, 12:41pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Feux Follets says
The Steelworkers Union did as much damage as the cost of electricity but at the end of the day it all goes back to management.


it goes back to a system that is geared to reward Wall Street pushing Companies to seek arbitrage abroad. A system that considers a move to Malaysia or Mexico to be just as much of a tax write-off as moving across the state. A weak system of easily loopholed tariffs and IP enforcement. No other country is so deliberately permissive.

Trump is finally doing something about it, and the Establishment profiting off the current system wants their glorious status quo.
84   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 13, 5:21pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Feux Follets says
Kind of curious, I thought Patrick and others on here have been screaming for several years now how bad a thing Diversity is but now it's a good thing ?


Please distinguish between job diversity and cultural/ethnic diversity.

I'm all for job diversity. And diversity of political opinion.

But cultural and ethnic diversity is provably a very bad thing for civic engagement.
85   mell   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 13, 5:26pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Feux Follets says
Patrick says
But cultural and ethnic diversity is provably a very bad thing for civic engagement.


Also necessary to get results you mentioned in sentence two as well as diversity in thinking.


No. You think there was much diversity when the greek or latin philosopers debated theories and societies that were more than worlds apart with each other? There wasn't. It's not necessary at all. What is is a common cultural ground of manners and rules of engagement which is best achieved in a mostly homogenous society with some skilled immigration.
86   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 13, 5:30pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Feux Follets says
Not at the correct price for some of these companies to stay afloat. Don't care how much we make from what - at the end of the day if the consumer be it an individual or a corporation finds the price unacceptable - game over.


Plenty of countries making plenty of aluminium and steel with higher energy and labor costs than us. The stay afloat because the tariff the hell out of US Products, but we don't reciprocate.

Feux Follets says
The better question no one is asking is why some of these companies are staying in business with little to no problem but others are screaming unfair etc.


Because they have patented processes and alloys the Chinese don't have, and won't steal because these companies don't outsource to China.

Meanwhile, plenty of businesses are getting creamed after they move to China only to discover their contractors and subcontractors ripped off every process they have, and that Chicom Courts aren't like US Courts: They're always gonna find for the Han.

Finally, Management sucks, but we can't let 18,000 workers suffer for that. Let the German worker take it on the Chin and sacrifice for trade for a change.
87   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 13, 5:33pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Meanwhile, the EU that bitches about our tariffs just raised their own Tariffs Chinese Steel to 13% a few month ago. Not specific alloys, but mostly due to ordinary building steel:

https://www.ft.com/content/19d13d7f-8b47-311d-864a-dd69b46cf637
88   mell   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 13, 5:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Feux Follets says
@Patrick. Seen your threads on diversity - don't agree and not getting into a mind numbing debate with you.

Heard the same old same old now since 2001.

It is a double edged sword that has to be strategically managed and most companies are totally inept when it comes to doing so.


Up until the rapefugee crisis Switzerland has been extremely homogenous - and it still is very. How has that hurt its standard of living, society, quality of life, companies, innovation?? It hasn't. in fact the opposite is true. They are in the top 10 for almost any desirable metric. Diversity is not necessary and starts becoming harmful in other than controlled doses.
89   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 13, 5:54pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Oops, I'm wrong. That's old. Here's the new EU Tariff on Chinese Steel Plate:

The European Commission, the EU's executive body, announced Chinese exports of steel plate will be taxed with anti-dumping duties ranging from 65.1 percent to 73.7 percent for a five-year period on February 28.



http://europe.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2017-03/10/content_28504633.htm

Must be bad management over in Germany. Why can't they just compete? Lay off those German Workers, you bad competitors. Those steel jobs ain't comin' back.

Unless, it's them not us.

Holy Shit, 65-73% Tariffs on Chinese Steel going to Europe

That's not me forgetting the decimal point. It's not 6.5% or 7.3%. It's 65-73%

When Germany get the EU to impose those kinds of tariffs on Chinese Steel, what is another similarly sized market will they look to dump it off in next?

Sorry Merkel, I'm not gonna be holding the hot potato when they yell "Time's Up". And dear God, you Euros are such sanctimonious hypocrites.

Here's Bloomberg Business with the same report on the Tariff Rate those Inept Europeans placed on China, "Up to 73%":
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-07/china-hit-with-more-eu-tariffs-on-steel-amid-overcapacity-worry
90   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 13, 6:10pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Well said sir.

TwoScoopsPlissken says
Feux Follets says
Pressed for time today.

No worries.

Feux Follets says
"IF" we are going to be great again - how do we achieve that at minimum wage ?


Not possible. One of the driving factors of the 50s and 60s was high demand, low labor supply. It makes companies train employees, pay them well to avoid turnover, and it can only happen if we restrict Corporate/Neoliberal gaming of the "Global Labor Market". Tariffs and restricting immigration is the only way to do it.
91   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 13, 6:29pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

FortWayne says
Not possible. One of the driving factors of the 50s and 60s was high demand, low labor supply. It makes companies train employees, pay them well to avoid turnover, and it can only happen if we restrict Corporate/Neoliberal gaming of the "Global Labor Market". Tariffs and restricting immigration is the only way to do it.




Yeah, even the Europeans agree there is immense overcapacity because of the Chinese going apeshit with massive amounts of steel overproduction.

What's been happening is in the past couple of years, Chinese domestic demand has slowed, but their mills are running full bore, they have to or China Collapses from tens of millions of angry, unmarried, childless rioting unemployed males with no savings and absolutely nothing to lose.

So they want to dump stuff in Europe and the USA. The Europeans have imposed huge tariffs on a range of Chinese Steel.

If the Chinese couldn't dump steel in Europe, they'd dump even more in the USA, the most comparable market.

This was an act of self preservation.

There is only one steel mill in the USA capable of producing Steel Alloy for submarines. We probably don't want to outsource that.
92   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 13, 6:29pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Feux Follets says
Heard the same old same old now since 2001.


Not from me.

I discovered the harm that diversity inflicts on societies only in August of 2015.

But let's not argue. The scientific evidence is very clear and consistent. Diversity of population is mostly harmful. It's easy to look up the scientific facts.
93   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 13, 6:32pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Patrick says
But let's not argue. The scientific evidence is very clear and consistent. Diversity of population is mostly harmful. It's easy to do look up the scientific facts.



I remember Sociology Class in the 90s, after the first wave of Diversity ("Political Correctness") that was actually mocked broadly - remember the NYT Bestseller "PC Christmas Tales" where the guy re-wrote all the Christmas stories to be inoffensive and "Politically Correct"? - we learned in Sociology class, from a fairly liberal Professor, about all the studies that established a huge increase in major crime, anti-social behavior (vandalism, graffiti), and perceptions of hostility/mistrust when a city had a minority population rise over 15%.

The sentiment of hostility and crime was actually seen on both sides, not just the majority or minority.

A Professor who taught that today would probably be run out of town, or pressured to resign with a golden parachute if he had tenure.
94   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 13, 6:39pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

One more bit to bust the "It's all America's internal problems, only" myth (as if 65-73% tariffs by Europe aren't enough):


Steel workers will be joined by their bosses as they march on ­Brussels demanding urgent action against cheap Chinese imports.

About 5,000 protesters will insist the European Commission ramps up tariffs on China to stop it dumping cut-price steel – one of the main reasons for thousands of job losses at Britain’s industry.

In an unprecedented move, reps from the Unite, Community and GMB unions will stand side by side with Tata Steel Europe chief Dr Karl-Ulrich Kohler and Celsa group’s boss Francisco Rubiralto.

Gareth Stace, director of trade association UK Steel, will also join the demo. He said: “I can’t remember an occasion where bosses have joined unions and employees to march on the European Union’s offices and demand more action.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/steel-workers-bosses-march-brussels-7372531

Remember, even with all the international abuse, including backstabbing by neoliberal extremists and financial fatcats and multinationals on the home front, we're still in the top 10, which is actually a testament to US Competitiveness.

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