« prev   random   next »

7
0

Ron Paul on the FISA memo

By someone else following x   2018 Feb 5, 7:31pm 1,234 views   30 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


Then it was released and the world did not end. FBI agents have thus far not been fired. Seeing “classified” material did not terrify us, but rather it demonstrated clearly that information is kept from us by claiming it is “classified.”

In the end, both sides got it wrong. Here’s what the memo really shows us:

First, the memo demonstrates that there is a “deep state” that does not want things like elections to threaten its existence. Candidate Trump’s repeated promises to get along with Russia and to re-assess NATO so many years after the end of the Cold War were threatening to a Washington that depends on creating enemies to sustain the fear needed to justify a trillion dollar yearly military budget.

Imagine if candidate Trump had kept his campaign promises when he became President. Without the “Russia threat” and without the “China threat” and without the need to dump billions into NATO, we might actually have reaped a “peace dividend” more than a quarter century after the end of the Cold War. That would have starved the war-promoting military-industrial complex and its network of pro-war “think tanks” that populate the Washington Beltway area.


http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2018/february/05/what-the-fbifisa-memo-really-tells-us-about-our-government/
1   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 5, 7:46pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I am really stunned by the dems response to this. Like they say the dem party left me.

I was anti free trade, anti NSA, anti spying -the dems just moved far right. They think govt spying on citizens and political opponents is a nothingburger, lover every free trade deal , I mean wtf???
2   Goran_K   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 5, 7:51pm   ↑ like (5)   ↓ dislike (3)   quote        

Ron Paul is one of the few I trust to be impartial on this issue.
3   HappyGilmore   ignore (2)   2018 Feb 6, 6:29am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote        

lostand confused says
I am really stunned by the dems response to this. Like they say the dem party left me.

I was anti free trade, anti NSA, anti spying -the dems just moved far right. They think govt spying on citizens and political opponents is a nothingburger, lover every free trade deal , I mean wtf???


Not sure what the response you reference. Dems are not pro-Patriot Act or FISA, they are simply anti-partisan, misleading memos. Trump claims to be for transparency but why not release the Dem memo too? Or the FISA application in full? Let's see all the information so we can draw our own conclusion--not a memo with cherry picked information written in a way to deceive the public.

As a reminder, Dems typically vote against the Patriot Act, while Republicans typically vote for it.
4   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 6, 6:59am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

HappyGilmore says
As a reminder, Dems typically vote against the Patriot Act, while Republicans typically vote for it.

Joey, joey, come on. Edward Snowden exposed republicans??
Cherry picked memo-oh I see facts are cherry picked? Ya know like the north pole being ice free?
And it is Nunes who is asking for transcripts from FISA warrant-the repubs have taken the mantle of freedom and the dems the mantle of Stalin.
5   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 Feb 6, 7:01am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

lostand confused says
I am really stunned by the dems response to this. Like they say the dem party left me.


Someone who has been espousing the hard right line for years here on patnet says the dem party left him behind. How does that work?
6   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 6, 7:03am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
Someone who has been espousing the hard right line for years here on patnet says the dem party left him behind. How does that work?

It works because I have said numerous times that I used to be on the left and voted for Obama the 1st time. My positions have not changed, but he dems have-but that is too much logic -I know for the left.
8   HappyGilmore   ignore (2)   2018 Feb 6, 7:43am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote        

lostand confused says
Joey, joey, come on. Edward Snowden exposed republicans??


Be more specific--what and who exactly did he expose?

lostand confused says
Cherry picked memo-oh I see facts are cherry picked? Ya know like the north pole being ice free?


See the problem is the memo isn't full of facts. eg, it conveniently omitted the FACT that there was a footnote explaining the origin of the dossier. Something that all the Trump supporters on here made a huge deal about not being there. Well, it turns out, it WAS there.

The memo was a partisan hack that omitted key facts in an effort to smear the FBI.


lostand confused says
And it is Nunes who is asking for transcripts from FISA warrant-the repubs have taken the mantle of freedom and the dems the mantle of Stalin.


No--it's the Dems who want to release the actual FISA application. If Nunes wanted to release it, it'd be released already.
9   HappyGilmore   ignore (2)   2018 Feb 6, 7:43am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (3)   quote        

lostand confused says
It works because I have said numerous times that I used to be on the left and voted for Obama the 1st time. My positions have not changed, but he dems have-but that is too much logic -I know for the left.


Could you give some examples with backup? I'm assuming when you say "Dems" you don't mean 1 single Democrat.

Please show me votes in Congress or the Dem platform or something similar showing Dem changes.

(and fyi--Dems move to the right and it makes you mad, so you vote for candidates that are even FURTHER to the right? )
10   mell   ignore (1)   2018 Feb 6, 7:49am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

As always great insight from Ron Paul.
11   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Feb 6, 7:51am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

HappyGilmore says
Let's see all the information so we can draw our own conclusion--


That information can be found at WaPo or NYT, the bastion of accuracy in reporting!
12   Goran_K   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 6, 8:25am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (3)   quote        

mell says
As always great insight from Ron Paul.


It's too bad both sides of the aisle couldn't see a guy like Ron Paul in office. I voted for him in 2008/2012, but by then, the Obama hype train was in full effect.

If Ron Paul had been elected in 2008, he would have severely limited the power of the FED, and we wouldn't have an additional 8-9 trillion dollars in debt. Sure, times would have been a little tougher, but in the end, America would have been better off.

Trump is better than Obama, and other huge deficit spenders like W Bush, but he's no Ron Paul fiscally.
13   HappyGilmore   ignore (2)   2018 Feb 6, 8:29am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

anon_bcf17 says

That information can be found at WaPo or NYT, the bastion of accuracy in reporting!


I don't think so--the Dem memo isn't public and neither is the FISA application.
14   HappyGilmore   ignore (2)   2018 Feb 6, 8:36am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Trump is already shaping up to be the worst President fiscally since Reagan. He will end up adding more to the deficit than W. Bush--probably a LOT more.

Ron Paul would have been an unmitigated disaster economically. We'd probably still be in the depths of the 2nd Great Depression now.

On the plus side, he probably would have scrapped all the Patriot Act BS.
15   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 6, 8:40am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

HappyGilmore says
Trump is already shaping up to be the worst President fiscally since Reagan. He will end up adding more to the deficit than W. Bush--probably a LOT more.

Ron Paul would have been an unmitigated disaster economically. We'd probably still be in the depths of the 2nd Great Depression now.

On the plus side, he probably would have scrapped all the Patriot Act BS.


@Patrick - This comment was in moderation. I know the anon comments go in there automatically, but was this marked personal or something? There's nothing remotely personal in this comment towards any user here if that was the case. A little confused.
16   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 Feb 6, 8:48am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Goran_K says
Trump is better than Obama, and other huge deficit spenders like W Bush, but he's no Ron Paul fiscally.


What? Deficit is on track for a trillion this year, worse next year and with the tax cut over a trillion every year of his first term and second term if he gets it. This is in the middle of a great economy with very low unemployment. Close to double O's last 4 years. How do you see that as better?
17   Goran_K   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 6, 8:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (3)   quote        

bob2356 says
What? Deficit is on track for a trillion this year, worse next year and with the tax cut over a trillion every year of his first term and second term if he gets it. This is in the middle of a great economy with very low unemployment. Close to double O's last 4 years. How do you see that as better?


Source?
18   Goran_K   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 6, 8:51am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (4)   quote        

HappyGilmore says
All my comments go into moderation--I can't start any threads because of it.

Obviously one of the moderators can't handle free speech


No, all of your comments go into moderation because you've shown a history of injecting personal attacks into your responses and posts.

Sniper has also been subjected to this restriction as well.

So it's not a "political line" divide here. Keep it clean and these type of restrictions tend to go away with time, Patrick has been pretty fair about this IMO.
19   Goran_K   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 6, 9:43am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (3)   quote        

HappyGilmore says
lol--that's funny.

I will admit to having attacks at the biases of the moderators, but definitely not personal attacks. In fact, as others have pointed out, Goran has many more personal attacks than I.

If Patrick doesn't want to listen to them, I can understand that. But I feel it's necessary to point out hypocrisy and bias.


You can continue doing what you "feel is necessary", and you'll continue to be put into the moderation cue.

Have a good day. :)
20   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 6, 9:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

WookieMan says
Patrick - This comment was in moderation. I know the anon comments go in there automatically, but was this marked personal or something? There's nothing remotely personal in this comment towards any user here if that was the case. A little confused.


@WookieMan If people get enough comments marked "personal" by anyone, then their privilege goes down eventually, so that all their comments get held in moderation. I guess that happened here.
21   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 6, 9:52am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Patrick says
@WookieMan If people get enough comments marked "personal" by anyone, then their privilege goes down eventually, so that all their comments get held in moderation. I guess that happened here.


Ok, I understand now. I figured it was something like that, but wasn't sure. It was just weird to see a non-anon comment in there that wasn't remotely personal.
22   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Feb 6, 9:54am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Goran_K says
HappyGilmore says
lol--that's funny.

I will admit to having attacks at the biases of the moderators, but definitely not personal attacks. In fact, as others have pointed out, Goran has many more personal attacks than I.

If Patrick doesn't want to listen to them, I can understand that. But I feel it's necessary to point out hypocrisy and bias.


You can continue doing what you "feel is necessary", and you'll continue to be put into the moderation cue.

Have a good day. :)


*queue

Discuss anything but the other users, please
23   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Feb 6, 9:56am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

HappyGilmore says
Just curious--is there somewhere to see who marked a comment as personal?


I sure hope that @Patrick gets to see all the posts that are deleted by mods as well

If Free Speech Came here today to witness what has happened, he’d probably kill himself to prevent such drastic devolution.
24   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Feb 6, 9:58am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

HappyGilmore says
Just curious--is there somewhere to see who marked a comment as personal?


The reason these types of information must be hidden is because the truth would illustrate the disgusting, disingenuous politics of the right wingers
25   Tim Aurora   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 6, 10:21am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

lostand confused says
And it is Nunes who is asking for transcripts from FISA warrant-the repubs have taken the mantle of freedom and the dems the mantle of Stalin.


So let us separate FISA and Nunes memo separately.
Let us separate the law and the implementation.


The Nunes memo is being used for Trump defense. The FISA has not changed, was started by Republicans and now they are against it because it is being used to investigate Trump .

1. So if Republicans are against FISA, say so and Democrats will work for you.

2. But to cry foul when it is used against you, is just asking for special treatment, an alternate universe where Trump and his cronies do not have to follow the law.
26   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 Feb 6, 10:36am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Ron Paul's honesty is a breath of fresh air blowing across a tepid swamp.
27   HEYYOU   ignore (13)   2018 Feb 6, 10:59am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Socialist Republican Ron Paul began his big govt. Socialist career in 1963 in the Socialist Big Govt. Air Force & milked others' taxes in Socialist D.C. until 2013.
Libertarians would continue to collect taxes.
What a hypocrite!

Reagan: 'Government's the problem.'
All Rep/Con are resigning today.
28   Goran_K   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 6, 11:24am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (3)   quote        

anon_01142 says
Yet, errc still has free access, and he led the league in personal attacks, and continues to do so.

you can't make this stuff up.


errrc has before had his "personal button" removed and his posts moderated as well. We're trying to keep on top of everything but this place gets lots of post daily (contrary to popular belief).
29   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 Feb 6, 11:26am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

HEYYOU says
What a hypocrite!


Only congressman to vote against the Patriot Act when everyone else was frothing at the mouth about bombing the shit out of the Middle East.
30   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Feb 6, 11:35am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Goran_K says
anon_01142 says
Yet, errc still has free access, and he led the league in personal attacks, and continues to do so.

you can't make this stuff up.


errrc has before had his "personal button" removed and his posts moderated as well. We're trying to keep on top of everything but this place gets lots of post daily (contrary to popular belief).


Discuss anything other than the other users.

Final warning. Next time I’m marking these types of posts as personal, per @Patrick request




The Housing Trap
You're being set up to spend your life paying off a debt you don't need to take on, for a house that costs far more than it should. The conspirators are all around you, smiling to lure you in, carefully choosing their words and watching your reactions as they push your buttons, anxiously waiting for the moment when you sign the papers that will trap you and guarantee their payoff. Don't be just another victim of the housing market. Use this book to defend your freedom and defeat their schemes. You can win the game, but first you have to learn how to play it.
115 pages, $12.50

Kindle version available


about   best comments   contact   one year ago   suggestions