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DOW Jones prediction thread

By lostand confused following x   2018 Feb 21, 1:05pm 3,139 views   64 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


So looks like the FED released their minutes from jan and market is starting to go down.

I expect the correction to go down deeper-perhaps at least 22,000+

The last one was savage -2 1000 point dips and then a furious 6 day rally-but a lower top.

I am wondering are we looking 22,000+ and then resume or a larger term decline?

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25   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Feb 22, 10:04am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

and in other news, the DOW is UP +250 right now.
26   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 22, 11:00am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

anon_cf6c6 says
and in other news, the DOW is UP +250 right now.

I don't think this will crash now. But it has been a spectacular straight up run, so just wondering if this correction is done or becaus eof the speed of the correction and subsequent rush up, will it unwind a few months?
27   Feux Follets   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 22, 3:58pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Once the 10-year yield hits 3% ‘all hell’ could break loose.

It could be a bad day for the markets once the yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury hits 3 percent, closely followed trader Art Cashin told CNBC on Thursday.

“That 3 percent level is both a target and a kind of resistance. Everybody knows it’s like touching the third rail,” said Cashin, UBS director of floor operations at the New York Stock Exchange. “The assumption is once they do it, all hell will break loose. So we’ll wait and see.”

As of early Thursday, the 10-year yield was slightly lower, around 2.91 percent, down from Wednesday’s four-year high of 2.95 percent. Wall Street fears returned Wednesday afternoon after minutes from the Federal Reserve‘s latest meeting sent bond yields rising and stocks into a tailspin. The last time the 10-year yield traded above 3 percent was in January 2014.

“Initially, yields moved down, stocks rallied like crazy,” Cashin recalled about Wednesday, moments after the Fed minutes were released. “Then about eight minutes into that move, stocks looked back and noticed bonds had changed their mind.”

http://dailytradersedge.com/2018/02/art-cashin-once-the-10-year-yield-hits-3-all-hell-could-break-loose/

Seems there have been several posters on the forum who have expressed similar sentiments in the recent past, one who resides in NorCal and the other in SoCal but ignore them and rush in and buy the dip, buy on credit cards if you have to but get fully in and totally exposed.
28   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Feb 22, 7:33pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Rule of investing: buy cheap with safety margin and sit on it and collect dividend. this is wealth creation.

Rule of gambling: 5% win, 95% lose. This is wealth transfer.

FED says, everything has zero yield, everything must be expensive. So I can NOT invest.

I am also NOT smart enough to be the 5% in the gambling game.

Fortunately, I do know how to do my W2 job and I do it better than others.

So I will earn my living until it gets cheap. Before then, I am just the idiot being screwed by low rate and inflation. Ben and Yellen spent years forcing me to play a game I am NOT good at. I am stubborn. But until I am sure I am the 5% gambler, I will NOT play their game.
29   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 22, 7:39pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Strategist says
Stock picking is more of an art than a science


That’s because the stock market fluctuates based on human nature, and the people most qualified to understand human nature are not scientists. They are artists and shamans, and always have been.
30   mell   ignore (1)   2018 Feb 26, 11:47am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Dow in range of all-time high again. Will cross it soon.
31   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 26, 12:27pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Yeah looks likely. The speed of the correction was very fast, I thought it would consolidate a bit before pushing higher-oh well !
32   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Feb 26, 1:33pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

lostand confused says
I thought it would consolidate a bit before pushing higher-oh well !


Doom cancelled!

DOW closes up just shy of +400 points.
33   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 1, 11:42am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Looks like a nice drop today, lets see where it ends up. I still think 22k or 23k and grind around for sometime before it resumes its climb. That was a very swift drop for it rise and go as if nothing happened. Lets see.
34   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Mar 1, 11:58am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

lostand confused says
Looks like a nice drop today, lets see where it ends up. I still think 22k or 23k and grind around for sometime before it resumes its climb. That was a very swift drop for it rise and go as if nothing happened. Lets see.


I think we could drop to 21k area even into the 20’s
35   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 1, 12:17pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Steel and Aluminium tariffs announced today, because it's ridiculous how much a nation with so much material abundance that used to make ludicrous amounts of the stuff at home, imports from abroad, many of whom dump like crazy with subsidized production costs behind it.

Some of the Fugitive Traitors ("Free Traders") drove the market down 500pts, but no biggie.
36   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 1, 4:02pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

TwoScoopsPlissken says
Steel and Aluminium tariffs announced today, because it's ridiculous how much a nation with so much material abundance that used to make ludicrous amounts of the stuff at home, imports from abroad, many of whom dump like crazy with subsidized production costs behind it.

Some of the Fugitive Traitors ("Free Traders") drove the market down 500pts, but no biggie.

I am definitely glad he is finally doing things on trade that nobody has done in decades. But market wise, just thinking it might go down and form a new base, before taking off again.
37   Booger   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 1, 4:18pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

lostand confused says
just thinking it might go down and form a new base, before taking off again.


I also think that this is a buying opportunity. Have no fucking idea what to buy though.
38   HappyGilmore   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 1, 5:48pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

For the record:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-imposes-266-duty-on-some-chinese-steel-imports-1456878180

Its been 2 years since the last tariff was slapped on Chinese steel imports.
39   just_passing_through   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 1, 9:14pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Booger says
Have no fucking idea what to buy though.


Persian Red Saffron?
40   Feux Follets   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 2, 2:10am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Booger says
I also think that this is a buying opportunity. Have no fucking idea what to buy though


Stay on the sidelines with most of your cash for a bit, more opportunity coming
41   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 2, 11:36am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Over half of it's peak value, will drop to around 10,000 this year.
42   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 23, 12:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Interesting-looks like it is coming down to the 22k level-but some pretty fast drops. Wonder if it will recover fast or push sub 20??
43   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 23, 1:46pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Lots of bad news: Facebook Drama, Crashing AI Cars, and of course the CoC Suckers aren't happy with protecting US IP and balancing the Trade Deficit against high Chinese Tariffs (and other measures).
44   mell   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 23, 2:13pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I think there will be a big snap back but the chances of breaching 20k definitely have surpassed the chances of 30K. At least in terms of volatility 2018 predictions have been proven right, almost anybody I think predicted volatile markets. 2017 and below were volatility snooze-fests.
45   Sniper   ignore (11)   2018 Mar 23, 2:35pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Sadly, the market is now only up 25% since Trump won, versus being flat the last two years of Obama (after his "recovery").

I'm crushed.
46   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 23, 2:44pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Malcolm says
If people insist on overpaying for stocks, like they are with houses, please don't expect any sympathy.


@Malcolm I totally agree. Stocks and houses both have underlying values which are not that hard to estimate. If you pay more than that underlying value, you're merely guessing, not really investing.

The value of a stock is in its earnings (hopefully reflected in dividends).
The value of a house is in what you could rent it out for. Or put another way, how much rent you can save.

The calculations can get complex when you try to take all the details into account, but the fact remains that earnings determine value for both stocks and houses.

I'm not going to try to predict the Dow, I'm just going to hold my good-value stocks, and maybe buy more of them. As Saint Warren likes to say, when the market drops, that just means that stocks are on sale and there are bargains to be had.
47   Sniper   ignore (11)   2018 Mar 23, 2:50pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Patrick says
The value of a house is in what you could rent it out for. Or put another way, how much rent you can save.


What about shelter for your family? Doesn't that value count?
48   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 23, 2:53pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Renting gets you shelter just like buying does.

The big question is the cost.
49   Sniper   ignore (11)   2018 Mar 23, 6:31pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Patrick says
Renting gets you shelter just like buying does.

The big question is the cost.


I believe cost is only one part of the puzzle. After being a home owner for decades, I tried renting for a few years to let the housing collapse level out. Renting sucked. Yes, it was cheaper, but not worth it in the big picture.

Having been on both sides, I rather spend a little bit more not to have to deal with a landlord, and be able to do what I want to the property. I rather deal with the bank (mortgage) then be at the whim of a landlord. At least I know I'm here long term, as long as I send the mortgage check, and the bank will never show up to nose around like a landlord will. Plus, I don't have to worry about a landlord stiffing the bank and not pay HIS mortgage, only to have the Sherriff show up to throw us out for eviction, or have to worry about being kicked out at the end of the lease.

Peace of mind has a cost, and I'm will to pay extra for it. Plus, I don't have any kids living at home. If I had little kids, the last thing I would want to do is move them when the lease expired.
50   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 23, 10:47pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Yes, not having to move is worth something, but how much? There is some number.
51   Sniper   ignore (11)   2018 Mar 24, 6:43am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Patrick says
Yes, not having to move is worth something, but how much? There is some number.


So what's your number?

For me, not having to deal with a landlord and being able to do what I want with my house, the number was about $20K - $22K, and my mortgage payment was the same as my rent payment.

Plus, I get to deduct property tax and the MID (which I couldn't do as a renter, saving me income taxes in April), so on a monthly basis, I come out ahead (and I get a forced savings account with the equity portion). With rent payments, the whole payment was vaporized and I got zero economic benefit, except for shelter.

Actually, I didn't tie up a lot of money on putting down a big down payment, so actually my investment growth covered the mortgage interest and then some, and keeps me more liquid, instead of locking money into the house, which would be more difficult to extract, if needed.

Being on both sides of the equation, owning is by far better than renting, and we haven't had hardly any appreciation in home prices (like in your area) and it's still way more beneficial.
52   PrivilegedtobeWhite   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 24, 7:02am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I agree that owning is better than renting when it's the same or cheaper than renting. The problem with CA is that that's not the case.
54   Feux Follets   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 26, 12:53pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

TwoScoopsPlissken says
Dow up 650 points today.


And ?

Potus going to own this stinker when it turns back the other way, and it is going to turn back the other way - bigly.

Going to be posting "down x number of points today" when the next shoe(s) drops ?

The laces on the shoes are untied.

Someone asked me about head winds on another thread even though 99% of the articles in the last 48 hours coming from inside the U.S. are proclaiming headwinds turning into tailwinds for the economy/market.

Look no farther than 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue for the lead in the headwinds.

Couple that with some "unexpected" geopolitical event(s) which really aren't or shouldn't be "unexpected" if you go beyond the news and financials in this country.

Dive in fully, buy the dip, get as exposed as possible - Wall Street needs you.
55   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 26, 12:59pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Feux Follets says
Potus going to own this stinker when it turns back the other way, and it is going to turn back the other way - bigly.


Yeah, the Dow went up over 30% since Trump was elected until today, and reached an all-time record, but it's unreasonable to expect the market to flatten or even correct a bit at this point.

"Why, if it doesn't gain another 30% again this year, it proves ORANGE DOUCHE is a lousy President. Impeach!"

Feux Follets says
Going to be posting down x number of points today when the next shoe drops ?



That's what ungrateful Anti-Trumpers will be doing.
56   Sniper   ignore (11)   2018 Mar 26, 1:39pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

TwoScoopsPlissken says
Yeah, the Dow went up over 30% since Trump was elected until today, and reached an all-time record, but it's unreasonable to expect the market to flatten or even correct a bit at this point.


We simply have to impeach him after that.

Feux Follets says
Dive in fully, buy the dip, get as exposed as possible - Wall Street needs you.


Sounds like someone who missed the 30% rise, due to not having anything invested in the market.

Sour Grapes, maybe?
57   ThreeBays   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 26, 2:12pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I don't believe in timing the market, and if anyone is standing on their high horse declaring superiority in being able to understand a P/E ratio, I say you're trying to time the market and are statistically likely to have worse outcomes in the long term than just leaving your money alone in a diversified market portfolio.
58   Feux Follets   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 26, 4:23pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

TwoScoopsPlissken says
Yeah, the Dow went up over 30% since Trump was elected until today,


Sniper says
Sounds like someone who missed the 30% rise, due to not having anything invested in the market.

Sour Grapes, maybe?


Once again are the screamers going to be posting the next downturn which is not too far off ? Sour grapes then perhaps ?

Don't think so, only the good news, downturns are obliviously not worth owning, seen any tweets from Potus on the market in the last few months on the down days ?

As for what "sounds like" and "sour grapes" feel free to indulge in speculation about whatever someone else does or does not do, how they are or are not invested or where they have financial interests be it the market or otherwise.

There are enough "millionaires" on here trumpeting their success from both sides of the political spectrum since unless those are after sales numbers - it's an illusion.

At the end of the day what someone else or what I have is totally irrelevant to anything. They can not take advantage of mine and I can not take advantage of theirs, in addition to the fact I really do not care as long as I can sleep at night.

Not trying to "time" the market as well.

Merely a cautionary comment to those screaming MAGA and WINNING every time the market pops - considering buying based on what Potus blabbed about concerning the Infrastructure Plan etc. - in addition to having a diversified investment portfolio age and other factors play into all of this.

There are going to be some people burned very soon.
59   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 26, 4:37pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Feux Follets says
Merely a cautionary comment to those screaming MAGA and WINNING every time the market pops - considering buying based on what Potus blabbed about concerning the Infrastructure Plan etc. - in addition to having a diversified investment portfolio age and other factors play into all of this.

There are going to be some people burned very soon.


You got tot ake the emotion out of markets. Markets are emotional, but you can't stand alone against a tsunami.
To me Trump, Obama, Clinton, Bush-who cares-how do you make money. It did take a while to get there.
60   Feux Follets   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 26, 4:44pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

lostand confused says
but you can't stand alone against a tsunami.


Not standing alone against a Tsunami. All that glitters is not gold and what you see right now is not exactly what's out there so to speak.

We are all watching the movie, just not the same edit. Kind of prefer where I am getting my information from as opposed to what is being offered in general.

Personally I am quite comfortable with my positions and sleep quite well. Ignoring the reality of what is coming however is not wise and I am of the camp things are going to change and not in a good way much sooner than anyone realizes.

The Mom and Pops are the ones who once again will take it in the ass.
61   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 26, 4:51pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Feux Follets says
I am of the camp things are going to change and not in a good way much sooner than anyone realizes.

Things will always change. It never stays the same. As for Trump, he is doing the ebst he can -much better than that pig Obama who turned out to be an authotitarian leftoid in the model of leftist dictators who demand fawning adualtion.

For investments, I have been out assuming it would go down, but nah it went up instead. Too rich to get in now, got two rentals instead, solid income, not much appreciation expected. Debt just to deduct interest.

if it goes down, fine, will renter the market.

But democrats are now the party of free trade, globalism, massive spying, trying to subvert democracy by spying on the opposition, love big corporations. Change is constant-maybe they may go back to their roots-who knows-oh and gazillion genders.
62   mell   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 26, 3:36pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

After today's earnings smash I reiterate Dow 30k. If it does not reach it and instead goes down or sideways may mean we have reached a top and a bigger correction is ahead. Because based on recent bellwether earnings 30k is in store very soon. No reason to be bearish.
63   anotheraccount   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 26, 4:58pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

mell says
No reason to be bearish.


2 year at 2.5% is one. It pays more than dividend yield on S&P. Corporate debt at all time high and a lot of it short term that has to be refinanced is two. Oh and someone has to buy all these extra treasuries that results from corporations getting a tax cut. I think that when the deficits will go through the roof, even Republicans might consider rolling back unfunded tax cut.s
64   mell   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 27, 7:47am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

anotheraccount says
mell says
No reason to be bearish.


2 year at 2.5% is one. It pays more than dividend yield on S&P. Corporate debt at all time high and a lot of it short term that has to be refinanced is two. Oh and someone has to buy all these extra treasuries that results from corporations getting a tax cut. I think that when the deficits will go through the roof, even Republicans might consider rolling back unfunded tax cut.s


You may well be right. The response to yuge corp earnings beats (not just net eps from tax cuts also gross rev beats) is muted at best and the market has been choppy. Still so far I don't see any signs of even a mild recession. Where's our resident cheerleader Logan when we need him ;)

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