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The only way Trump can say he achieved MAGA is if the gap between the rich and poor closes.

By Fivelbsbrowntrout following x   2018 Mar 11, 10:22am 2,656 views   69 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


What does the patnet community think?

I believe America was its best when the gap was smaller,* agree? Disagree? Why why not?

* http://patrick.net/post/1314356?offset=0#comment-1489820

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1   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 11, 10:23am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Inequality increased mostly in the Unquestioned Neoliberalism Era, 1992-2016
2   Fivelbsbrowntrout   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 11, 10:29am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

TwoScoopsPlissken says
Inequality increased mostly in the Unquestioned Neoliberalism Era, 1992-2016


So if it increases more then we know MAGA was just more of the same, no hope and change.
3   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 11, 10:31am   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Capital creates more capital. It’s really tough to eliminate fortunes that have already been made. The best we can do is help the working class get a fair deal on wages and have a good chance to get good jobs. That and cut down any onerous monopolies which are taxing the ability of the people to get by.

As for the unworking poor: fuck them. They’ll always be around and always be a drain on society. They don’t deserve to be richer or have any gap closed. Only productive contributing people have a right to the rewards of the economy.
4   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 11, 10:43am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I posted that article about the Chick who worked in Senegal.

Unless you're able to save some excess, some profit, some surplus, you're unable to invest in bigger and better things.

Senegal is poor because they maintain the primitive barbarous hardscrabble peasant mentality of "Everybody share and nobody accumulate anything".

You see this in many places around the world, with poor people keeping careful tabs on what their neighbor has. It's not just an Akata thing, it's also seen in Poland and Russia.

"Goddamn Ivan has two cows, the kulak."
"Goddamn Taddeuz must be a secret Jew, he had 6 chickens, I only have 3."
5   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 11, 11:22am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

5lbsbrowntrout says
What does the patnet community think?

I believe America was its best when the gap was smallest agree? Disagree? Why why not?


The gap between the rich and poor is irrelevant.
Proof:
If Bill Gates doubles his net worth, and the middle class increases theirs by 10%, we are better off even though the wealth gap has increased.
6   Fivelbsbrowntrout   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 11, 11:28am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

So then, when was America great?
7   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 11, 11:32am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

5lbsbrowntrout says
So then, when was America great?


Since the end of slavery.
8   Fivelbsbrowntrout   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 11, 11:33am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

5lbsbrowntrout says
I believe America was its best when the gap was smallest agree? Disagree? Why why not?


Ok maybe not smallest. I should say smaller. I was wrong before when I said smallest. Probably even terrible terminology.

So I will restate. I believe America was greatest when it had a smaller wealth gap.
9   Goran_K   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 11, 11:45am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

5lbsbrowntrout says
What does the patnet community think?

I believe America was its best when the gap was smaller,* agree? Disagree? Why why not?

* http://patrick.net/post/1314356?offset=0#comment-1489820


Disagree.

Income inequality is NOT a problem. Poverty is a problem. Just because person A makes $10 million a year, doesn’t mean person B who makes a mere $100,000 a year is made worse by person A’s extremely high income.

Income inequality as a social issue is a leftist/Democrat invented bogeyman.
10   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 11, 11:47am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

5lbsbrowntrout says
Ok maybe not smallest. I should say smaller. I was wrong before when I said smallest. Probably even terrible terminology.

So I will restate. I believe America was greatest when it had a smaller wealth gap.


America is the greatest when it has the most technology to make lives better for the average citizen. Every day we add to our technological wealth with research and investment, almost entirely created by the private sector.
Proof:
The wealth gap may have been small when electricity was invented, but only the rich had it. What good is a small wealth gap if you have to live in the stone age?
11   Ceffer   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 11, 11:50am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Unlimited immigration will solve this problem.
12   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (32)   2018 Mar 11, 12:24pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Shooting the poor shouldn't be too great of a task for the National Guard and ICE
13   CBOEtrader   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 11, 12:33pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

5lbsbrowntrout says
The only way Trump can say he achieved MAGA is if the gap between the rich and poor closes.


disagree. a growing modern economy will naturally produce people like gates and Bezos. it will also increase the wealth of the poorest people.

one measurement of MAGA is indeed to measure increases in working class wages. so far, by this metric amongst others, trump is succeeding in MAGA.

#keepamericagreat
14   HeadSet   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 11, 12:58pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Quigley says
Capital creates more capital. It’s really tough to eliminate fortunes that have already been made.


I know you are referring to Rockefeller sized fortunes, but I would like to point out that many fortunes have been lost. You may have heard the proverb "shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations." That proverb refers to the common situation were an entrepreneur builds a large business, and that business is maintained or grown by the 2nd generation, but then the totally spoiled and talent-less 3rd generation runs the business into bankruptcy by lavish spending and decisions based on ego rather than good business sense. I personally know of two companies that, despite being worth millions, were ran into bankruptcy in the third generation. I have no pity for those particular self-entitled assholes, whose lack of stewardship not only hurt themselves, but cost a lot of people their jobs.
15   Fivelbsbrowntrout   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 11, 1:26pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Looks like measurement of inequality is a rabbit hole in and of itself.

do we measure wealth, income. Many good points being made
16   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 11, 1:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

What's inequality gonna look like in 100 years?

"Those assholes go first class to Saturn and dine on the executive level overlooking the rings. I can only afford the Mars Tour. Goddamn Capitalist Exploiters!"
17   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 11, 2:08pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Close, since 1776!! :)

Strategist says
5lbsbrowntrout says
So then, when was America great?


Since the end of slavery.
18   RC2006   ignore (0)   2018 Mar 11, 7:02pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Flood the US with uneducated immigrants from third world corrupt shitholes and that's what happens, expect the income gaps to increase no matter who is president.
19   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 11, 9:10pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Goran_K says
5lbsbrowntrout says
What does the patnet community think?

I believe America was its best when the gap was smaller,* agree? Disagree? Why why not?

* http://patrick.net/post/1314356?offset=0#comment-1489820


Disagree.

Income inequality is NOT a problem. Poverty is a problem. Just because person A makes $10 million a year, doesn’t mean person B who makes a mere $100,000 a year is made worse by person A’s extremely high income.

Income inequality as a social issue is a leftist/Democrat invented bogeyman.


It's a keep up with the Jones syndrome. If you're both driving old Chevys, and you get a BMW 535 that is awesome, but if the Jones get a BMW 735, you are suddenly worse off.
20   Goran_K   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 11, 9:17pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Strategist says
It's a keep up with the Jones syndrome. If you're both driving old Chevys, and you get a BMW 535 that is awesome, but if the Jones get a BMW 735, you are suddenly worse off.


The "Income inequality" is a problem issue is so corrupt and idiotic, I'm still surprised that, even those on the left, actually listen to it when Democrats vomit it out in public.

It's even worse when Bernie Comrade Sanders goes on and on about CEO pay.

The CEO of Walmart makes $20 million a year, roughly, or orders of magnitude more than the average Walmart employee. Walmart employs 2,000,000 people globally. If you didn't pay the CEO a single cent and distributed his entire salary throughout the company, everyone basically gets $10. CEO pay is NOT a problem.

Also Leftist: "I have no problem with Ellen DeGeneres making $50 million a year because we love her politics."

Leftism, not even once.
21   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Mar 11, 9:29pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Goran_K says
The CEO of Walmart makes $20 million a year, roughly, or orders of magnitude more than the average Walmart employee. Walmart employs 2,000,000 people globally. If you didn't pay the CEO a single cent and distributed his entire salary throughout the company, everyone basically gets $10. CEO pay is NOT a problem.


And these idiots think if you take away that $20 million from that greedy CEO, every employee in Walmart will be ten times better off. Fucking morons.
22   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 11, 9:33pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Strategist says
And these idiots think if you take away that $20 million from that greedy CEO, every employee in Walmart will be ten times better off. Fucking morons.


It is why I never understood their communist agenda of "equality" of outcomes, or it's racist. That just sounded so misguided.
23   Fivelbsbrowntrout   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 11, 10:12pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

I hearing that many think wealth inequality is not a problem.

I also hear these same people scream about fake news.

Guess what fake news Is because of wealth inequality.

1. Economic inequality can give wealthier people an unacceptable degree of control over the lives of others.

If wealth is very unevenly distributed in a society, wealthy people often end up in control of many aspects of the lives of poorer citizens: over where and how they can work, what they can buy, and in general what their lives will be like. As an example, ownership of a public media outlet, such as a newspaper or a television channel, can give control over how others in the society view themselves and their lives, and how they understand their society.

So remember the next time you scream fake news you should really scream I want less wealth inequality because they are 1 in the same.
24   Fivelbsbrowntrout   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 11, 10:19pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

It's not about giving to the poor it's about paying down a debt. America was also greatest when it didn't have a massive debt.
25   Fivelbsbrowntrout   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 12, 5:46am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

FortWayne says
It is why I never understood their communist agenda of "equality" of outcomes, or it's racist. That just sounded so misguided.


It's not about being equal, it's about being yugley unequal. Just like it is in North Korea just like it is in Russia. They both have massive wealth gaps. Is that what we are after? Should we become the Ussa?
26   Fivelbsbrowntrout   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 12, 7:00am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Quigley says
Capital creates more capital. It’s really tough to eliminate fortunes that have already been made.


Not really, government can do it. It's called death tax.
27   CBOEtrader   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 12, 7:17am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

5lbsbrowntrout says
It's not about giving to the poor it's about paying down a debt. America was also greatest when it didn't have a massive debt.


Yeah, for Trump to slow the deficit (baby steps) he will need to end wars. He's taking some great steps towards national prosperity. However, WARS (2 started by Bush, 5 more by Obama), are our biggest problem.

The Bush/Obama/Clinton cabal started wars designed to never end. War is at the core of the establishment racket. Trump must take steps to winning and ending these wars. So far, so good.
28   CBOEtrader   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 12, 7:18am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

5lbsbrowntrout says
Not really, government can do it. It's called death tax.


Death tax is designed to limit competition from ambitious peasant upstarts w a few million of savings after a lifetime of grinding. Anyone (certainly any billionaire) w an accounting and legal staff can easily dodge the death tax.
29   Fivelbsbrowntrout   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 12, 7:19am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Goran_K says
Income inequality is NOT a problem. Poverty is a problem. Just because person A makes $10 million a year, doesn’t mean person B who makes a mere $100,000 a year is made worse by person A’s extremely high income.

Income inequality as a social issue is a leftist/Democrat invented bogeyman.


Actually there are more B's than A's

The problem comes when the B's can't afford what the A's are producing. Only the A's can but unfortunately there are not enough A's to support the economy and the economy goes into recession now both the A's and the B's are worse off.

How is this a made up boggy man? It is what caused the Great Depression, was the Great Depression made up by the leftist too? @Goran_k
30   Fivelbsbrowntrout   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 12, 7:54am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Strategist says


The gap between the rich and poor is irrelevant.
Proof:
If Bill Gates doubles his net worth, and the middle class increases theirs by 10%, we are better off even though the wealth gap has increased.


The only problem with this proof is that of GDP.

If we make a simple population of 10 people, 2 with no income, 3-9 with various amounts of income and the 10th with the largest income. Put values to the 3-9 and then add 10% and add 100% to the top earner we come out with a GDP of 37%.

37% GDP growth is unrealistic so this proof is unrealistic.

If I could get 10% wage growth year over year and I started making $10,000/year by year 40 I'm making $411,000/year.
31   Fivelbsbrowntrout   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 12, 7:58am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

CBOEtrader says
5lbsbrowntrout says
Not really, government can do it. It's called death tax.


Death tax is designed to limit competition from ambitious peasant upstarts w a few million of savings after a lifetime of grinding. Anyone (certainly any billionaire) w an accounting and legal staff can easily dodge the death tax.


I'm going to have to TRUST you on this.
32   Fivelbsbrowntrout   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 12, 8:11am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

CBOEtrader says
5lbsbrowntrout says
It's not about giving to the poor it's about paying down a debt. America was also greatest when it didn't have a massive debt.


Yeah, for Trump to slow the deficit (baby steps) he will need to end wars. He's taking some great steps towards national prosperity. However, WARS (2 started by Bush, 5 more by Obama), are our biggest problem.

The Bush/Obama/Clinton cabal started wars designed to never end. War is at the core of the establishment racket. Trump must take steps to winning and ending these wars. So far, so good.


Yes a shit ton of money is spent on wars.

Is the defense budget even a realistic measure of what we spend on defense?
33   Goran_K   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 12, 8:26am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

5lbsbrowntrout says
The problem comes when the B's can't afford what the A's are producing. Only the A's can but unfortunately there are not enough A's to support the economy and the economy goes into recession now both the A's and the B's are worse off.


That's a marxist myth, the same "labor is the value in the economy" argument that Marx brought up over and over.

Explain how that logic worked in Venezuela when all the "A's" were chased away because of socialism. Here's what I saw happen.



Man she looks like a very unhappy "B" now that all the A's have taken off and are not around to risk their capital to produce something.
34   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 12, 9:23am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Equality isn’t a goal. And you don’t get to decide who and how should be equal.

America is still a free country.

5lbsbrowntrout says
FortWayne says
It is why I never understood their communist agenda of "equality" of outcomes, or it's racist. That just sounded so misguided.


It's not about being equal, it's about being yugley unequal. Just like it is in North Korea just like it is in Russia. They both have massive wealth gaps. Is that what we are after? Should we become the Ussa?
35   Fivelbsbrowntrout   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 12, 9:41am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

FortWayne says
Equality isn’t a goal.


FortWayne says
It's not about being equal


Looks like we agree on something. Do we agree that having a $20 Trillion dollar debt also makes America less great?
36   Fivelbsbrowntrout   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 12, 9:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Goran_K says
5lbsbrowntrout says
The problem comes when the B's can't afford what the A's are producing. Only the A's can but unfortunately there are not enough A's to support the economy and the economy goes into recession now both the A's and the B's are worse off.


That's a marxist myth, the same "labor is the value in the economy" argument that Marx brought up over and over


We are entitled to our opinions. Care to give some proof as to why it is a myth?

My example is the great depression, please tell us why it wasn't caused by the worker B's whom didn't have the money to buy all the stuff they were producing.
37   Goran_K   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 12, 9:56am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

5lbsbrowntrout says

We are entitled to our opinions. Care to give some proof as to why it is a myth?


What? Venezuelans eating their zoo animals for dinner isn't enough proof?
38   Fivelbsbrowntrout   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 12, 9:58am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Goran_K says
Explain how that logic worked in Venezuela when all the "A's" were chased away because of socialism. Here's what I saw happen.


Very poorly. That is why Trump would achieve MAGA if he could bring down the wealth gap especially if it doesn't turn out like Venezuela did, which we both agree is a poor way to achieve a lowering in the wealth gap. You see, it was not that long ago (2006) Venezuela had a
Larger wealth gap than did the US.
39   Goran_K   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 12, 10:03am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

5lbsbrowntrout says
Very poorly. That is why Trump would achieve MAGA if he could bring down the wealth gap especially if it doesn't turn out like Venezuela did, which we both agree is a poor way to achieve a lowering in the wealth gap. You see, it was not that long ago (2006) Venezuela had a
Larger wealth gap than did the US.


The wealth pie is NOT a zero sum game. This is the fatal flaw in all socialist/anti-capitalist theory.

You're claiming that the wealth gap is extremely high in the U.S. Okay. So what?

Net household worth has skyrocketed and hit record levels.



The pie simply gets bigger.

Like I said, because Bill Gates has $50 billion to play around means nothing to ME personally even though I'm a "lowly" multi-millionaire. I've never felt more rich at any other time in my life. Bill Gates ain't hurting me.
40   Fivelbsbrowntrout   ignore (2)   2018 Mar 12, 10:25am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Goran_K says



See that dip in the graph? Obama put us approximately $10 trillion more in debt to recover from that dip. What if we start to dip again? What if that dip was just papered? Over? Shit could and can get a whole lot worse and fast? Will it happen? What happens when the US has to service that debt at a higher interest rate? Is asking for the debt to be paid down in a more favorable economic environment too much to ask?

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