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My brother-in-law breeds pit bulls, and they are some of the sweetest dogs we have ever known. A dogs temperament is a product of his environment.

NuttBoxer says

My brother-in-law breeds pit bulls, and they are some of the sweetest dogs we have ever known. A dogs temperament is a product of his environment.

You know how many of those dogs go to imbeciles who live in apartments and buy a dog that needs a yard?

People aren't fit to raise those dogs. Together those dogs aren't fit for living within 1000 yards of a stranger. Let alone a family acquaintance.

NuttBoxer says

My brother-in-law breeds pit bulls, and they are some of the sweetest dogs we have ever known. A dogs temperament is a product of his environment.

And so what? Are you going to ensure that every pit bull in America has a sweet nurturing environment so they don’t maul children?

Society in general is absolutely too irresponsible to own those dogs.

But someone will always tell you how they know of one that’s sweet and has a responsible owner.

Pit bulls are awesome. It's people that suck.

CBOEtrader says

Pit bulls are awesome. It's people that suck.

I'm sure that elementary school was just full of little assholes.

From the article it does look like it was more like rough play than an actual attack.

CBOEtrader says

Pit bulls are awesome. It's people that suck.

Actually, pit bulls think people must taste awesome:

NuttBoxer says

My brother-in-law breeds pit bulls, and they are some of the sweetest dogs we have ever known. A dogs temperament is a product of his environment.

Wrong. Genetics do play a role. If the dog is bred incorrectly and comes from an agressive line the environment might not matter.

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

NuttBoxer says

My brother-in-law breeds pit bulls, and they are some of the sweetest dogs we have ever known. A dogs temperament is a product of his environment.

Wrong. Genetics do play a role. If the dog is bred incorrectly and comes from an agressive line the environment might not matter.

Have to agree with this, and unlike guns they are not inanimate objects. I would never ever leave a kid or anyone I care for alone with a pit-bull. There are other problematic breeds that just require very dedicated owners that train their dogs well and don't leave them alone. Worst thing is a tiny woman on the street with a big dog that would only need 1/100 of their strength to break free instantly.

Definitely the worst breed of all dogs. I love dogs but pit bulls are shit

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

NuttBoxer says

My brother-in-law breeds pit bulls, and they are some of the sweetest dogs we have ever known. A dogs temperament is a product of his environment.

Wrong. Genetics do play a role. If the dog is bred incorrectly and comes from an agressive line the environment might not matter.

Absolutely correct. The breeding line is the biggest factor in the temperament. Some behaviors can be changed or modified based on the environment, but what was established in the breeding and genetics will always be there.

CovfefeButDeadly says

You know how many of those dogs go to imbeciles who live in apartments and buy a dog that needs a yard?

He's bred one for shows, and the rest he was very careful about giving away, since he lives in TJ, and small apartments are the least of his concern when it comes to the new owners.

BayArea says

And so what?

Opinion < Experience

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

Wrong. Genetics do play a role.

I thought eugenics was frowned upon after the Hitler fiasco?

Pitbulls have the hardware to take down small adults . They were bred for sport -they need specialized owners and the public needs protection from those types.

NuttBoxer says

Opinion < Experience

Data > Anecdote.

Pitbulls are the most dangerous breed by a country mile. Data shows it conclusively.

lostand confused says

Pitbulls have the hardware to take down small adults . They were bred for sport -they need specialized owners and the public needs protection from those types.

Many other breeds have as big or even bigger hardware. St. Bernard can probably swallow a small adult whole, but the only way it might hurt a child is by accidentally knocking it down while turning around. So it's breeding, breeding and breeding again. The agression can be bred out of a breed previously known for "hair trigger" - Doberman Pincher is a very good example of breed which has beens significantly mellowed down over the last 20-30 years.

But this means that the morons should be prevented from uncontrolled breeding of Pitbull type of dogs in their backyards.

Breed has been banned in Britain. No need.

rocketjoe79 says

Breed has been banned in Britain. No need.

Which one of four (or five, IDR) which are usually lumped in as "Pitbulls"?

NuttBoxer says

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

Wrong. Genetics do play a role.

I thought eugenics was frowned upon after the Hitler fiasco?

"Eugenics" applies only to humans. For the rest of the creatures it's called "selective breeding".

The owners were described as cooperative and rabies vaccinations were up to date. The article goes on to say:

The dog is 10 months old and described as a silver and white male pit bull, medium to large in size. The name of the dog is “Bro.”

HappyGilmore says

Data shows it conclusively.

That data takes into account environmental contributors? If not then.

Faulty Data < Experience

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

"Eugenics" applies only to humans. For the rest of the creatures it's called "selective breeding".

Calling bullshit. When you attempt to predict temperament based solely on DNA, it's eugenics.

"The concept predates this coinage, with Plato suggesting applying the principles of selective breeding..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

NuttBoxer says

That data takes into account environmental contributors? If not then.

Of course--it takes everything into account.

NuttBoxer says

Faulty Data < Experience

Just because the data disagrees with your experience doesn't make it faulty. Data is still > anecdote

Getting a pit bull seems like a man with a small penis syndrome to me. One of my shortest posts. You're welcome.

NuttBoxer says

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

"Eugenics" applies only to humans. For the rest of the creatures it's called "selective breeding".

Calling bullshit. When you attempt to predict temperament based solely on DNA, it's eugenics.

"The concept predates this coinage, with Plato suggesting applying the principles of selective breeding..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

BS on what? The definition of eugenics?

It's right there, in the wiki article you linked:

Eugenics (/juːˈdʒɛnɪks/; from Greek εὐγενής eugenes 'well-born' from εὖ eu, 'good, well' and γένος genos, 'race, stock, kin')[2][3] is a set of beliefs and practices that aims at improving the genetic quality of a human population.

And yes, selective breeding works for achieving desired traits in both animals and humans. It's considered immoral in the latter case, as you correctly pointed out. But for animals - it's what gave us all the breeds of dogs, cows, sheep and fucking hamsters.

It’s funny how we have a big problem with breeds of dogs and guns. Yet the idiots controlling them skate free?

JeffDunn says

It’s funny how we have a big problem with breeds of dogs and guns. Yet the idiots controlling them skate free?

They do? I don't think that is correct.

HappyGilmore says

Of course--it takes everything into account.

Because you say so... So we're still back to:

your opinion < my experience.

Happy to change my thinking if you have anything substantive to add.

NuttBoxer says

Because you say so... So we're still back to:

your opinion < my experience.

Happy to change my thinking if you have anything substantive to add.

Nope--data is not my opinion. Data is a collection of MANY experiences like yours.

See this is data:

http://www.animals24-7.org/2018/01/08/57-dog-attack-deaths-645-disfigurements-in-2017-led-by-pit-bulls/

"The 989 dogs who killed or disfigured people in 2017 accounted for 645 total disfigurements, 14 more than the previous record of 631 who were disfigured in 2016.
Of the disfigurements, 570––four fewer than in 2016––were disfigured by pit bulls, meaning that pit bulls accounted for “only” 88% of the dog attack disfigurements reported in 2017, down from 91% in 2016."

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

And yes, selective breeding works for achieving desired traits in both animals and humans.

Sure, skin color, eye color, faster runner, better jumper. Physical traits. But you're talking about temperament, mood, disposition, those are character traits. There has never been any research that proved selective breeding makes people or animals think differently, except in extreme cases of inbreeding.

HappyGilmore says

Nope--data is not my opinion.

You're ignoring the obvious, I think because you don't have any data, that was my point. Allow me to demonstrate:

"There is TONS of DATA available that shows pitbulls have no distemperment issues, TONS!!"

You see how ridiculous that looks when I make unsupported suppositions.

NuttBoxer says

You're ignoring the obvious, I think because you don't have any data, that was my point. Allow me to demonstrate:

"There is TONS of DATA available that shows pitbulls have no distemperment issues, TONS!!"

You see how ridiculous that looks when I make unsupported suppositions.

I realized when writing my last posts that maybe you hadn't seen the data which would be surprising, but possible. That's why I posted this:

HappyGilmore says

See this is data:

http://www.animals24-7.org/2018/01/08/57-dog-attack-deaths-645-disfigurements-in-2017-led-by-pit-bulls/

"The 989 dogs who killed or disfigured people in 2017 accounted for 645 total disfigurements, 14 more than the previous record of 631 who were disfigured in 2016.
Of the disfigurements, 570––four fewer than in 2016––were disfigured by pit bulls, meaning that pit bulls accounted for “only” 88% of the dog attack disfigurements reported in 2017, down from 91% in 2016."

NuttBoxer says

Sure, skin color, eye color, faster runner, better jumper. Physical traits. But you're talking about temperament, mood, disposition, those are character traits. There has never been any research that proved selective breeding makes people or animals think differently

:facepalm:

Not only there has been literally a century of research proving that selective breeding allows for change in behaviour traits, there are obvious things you can observe yourselves like purebred terriers reliably showing heightened prey drive from a very early age or purebred shepherd puppies show herding behavior even before they lose their baby teeth, but have no interest in chasing squarrels. These are the traits which were deliberately bred into them.

PS. Also, it turns out that there is a link between physical apperance of the animal and their behavior traits and that breeding "fore behavior" often carries unexpected "baggage" of changed physical apperance. Here's an article about a lengthy study done on foxes: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/animalia/wp/2017/05/31/what-floppy-eared-foxes-taught-us-about-how-animals-become-tame/?utm_term=.22435e99f9a3