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Trump Escalates Trade Tensions With Call For New China Tariffs

By Heraclitusstudent following x   2018 Apr 5, 5:31pm 805 views   25 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-05/trump-orders-consideration-of-100-billion-in-new-china-tariffs

Here goes the third volley.
Right after Kudlow has spent days trying to calm investors.
The media had spent months explaining us why trade is good in spite of all the losers.
The NYT had just explained us why China is confident it can win a trade war.

Popcorn needed here!

1   TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 5, 5:38pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

He's doing his usual.

Sorry Lefties, but you know it's coming: "Art of the Deal".

The more resistance, the more he ups the ante when he knows the other party is desperate to make a deal.

Amazing how the same people who think Putin must be stopped, are rooting against the USA in it's disagreement with a literal Communist State (not just a flawed Republic).
2   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 5, 5:40pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

LOL we have what 500 billion in trade deficits with CHina ?
3   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 5, 5:40pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Related: China cut debts while growing: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-04-05/china-cuts-debt-while-sustaining-economic-growth

An other attempt to convince people that China is just about to move in the consumer column, and so free trade is absolutely worth it.
Reality: China's national saving rate is around 46% (2016) meaning it spends only about half the money it receives, while others go in debt to compensate.
4   FortWayne   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 5, 5:46pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

We are building China at expense to our middle class.

Only Trump looks out for America looks like.
5   TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 5, 5:53pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

FortWayne says
We are building China at expense to our middle class.


Yep, that's why Wall Street Loves it.
"Hey, there's this furniture company, low PE, let's take it over and outsource everything from North Carolina and subcontract instead to China"
6   HEYYOU   ignore (13)   2018 Apr 5, 8:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote        

TwoScoopsPlissken says
literal Communist State


How many imports do you own from this "literal Communist State"?
How much tonnage of Communist China imports has Spanky & his ilk imported?
Rep/Cons that own any C.C. imports hate America? Why?

FortWayne says
We are building China at expense to our middle class.


Same questions as above.
7   HEYYOU   ignore (13)   2018 Apr 5, 8:17pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Yeah! Right! China will just lay down?
8   deepcgi   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 6, 12:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

They will have to tighten up the shadow banking shenanigans. Too much money is fleeing China to buy real estate elsewhere. And the poor in China are still dead poor and serving as slave labor. Quite a mess. To me, it looks like just the sort of trouble that will stall RE sales.
9   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 6, 6:14pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

China has a simple, linear plan going from here to worldwide hegemony by simply assuming the US is a bunch of greedy people who will blindly follow their personal interests and not hesitate to sacrifice a common future in the process.
Unfortunately this last point is true enough.
I can imagine Clinton would go out of her way to not disrupt the status quo for fear of the market going down a bit or the farmers getting agitated. And anyway the rise of China is inevitable, right?
Enter the other baboon, aggressive and unpredictable, disreputable and disruptive, the sand in the gear, the fly in the ointment, the monkey in the wrench, and the pain in the ass of Xi 'inpain.
Not a big fan of Trump, but something needs to be done, and someone needs to do it.
10   FortWayne   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 6, 8:12pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Thank god for Trump.
11   zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 9, 7:45am   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

When a car is sent to the United States from China, there is a Tariff to be paid of 2 1/2%. When a car is sent to China from the United States, there is a Tariff to be paid of 25%. Does that sound like free or fair trade. No, it sounds like STUPID TRADE - going on for years!
12   TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 9, 7:40pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

China’s president promises to cut auto import tariff
BEIJING (AP) — President Xi Jinping has promised to cut China’s auto import tariffs and ease restrictions on foreign ownership in its auto industry amid an escalating tariff spat with Washington.

In a speech Tuesday at a business conference, Xi made no direct mention of the dispute with President Donald Trump but pledged to open China’s markets further and improve conditions for foreign companies.

Xi said Beijing will “significantly lower” tariffs on auto imports this year and ease restrictions on foreign ownership in the auto industry “as soon as possible.”

https://t.co/4sIILAQxa9

Don't worry, you won't get an acknowledgement about this success from the WSJ, CATO, NYT, the Koch Brothers or the Coc Suckers.
13   BlueSardine   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 10, 6:00am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Double digit dimensional strategy and the fruit that it bears is a thing to behold...unless your TDS is stomping on your senses...

TwoScoopsPlissken says
Xi said Beijing will “significantly lower” tariffs on auto imports this year and ease restrictions on foreign ownership in the auto industry “as soon as possible.”
14   komputodo   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 10, 7:26am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

HEYYOU says
Yeah! Right! China will just lay down?


I'm sure they won't. But does that mean that the typical american citizen needs to fear china? Must we fear everyone that doesn't agree with us? Must we live in constant fear? MAGA

15   komputodo   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 10, 7:39am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Damn, I wish I would have been forewarned about this trade war with china. I haven't quite filled my 2 car garage to the ceiling with cheap imported junk stored in cheap plastic containers. And I only have 5 LED tvs in the house. Salad shooters are gonna cost 10% more. This would never had happened under hillary's watch.
16   Sniper   ignore (11)   2018 Apr 10, 7:48am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

TwoScoopsPlissken says
Don't worry, you won't get an acknowledgement about this success from the WSJ, CATO, NYT, the Koch Brothers or the Coc Suckers.


Or that this announcement has the DOW up +489 right now.
17   zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 10, 7:51am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

it's almost like there's something to this whole negotiation thing President Trump has been talking about.

Wonder why no one thought of it before him.

He does it so well, it's almost like he might have written a book about it.

Tariffs are working very quickly.

Its as if Donald J Trump was a business man before!
18   Sniper   ignore (11)   2018 Apr 10, 8:12am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

zzyzzx says
it's almost like there's something to this whole negotiation thing President Trump has been talking about.

Wonder why no one thought of it before him.

He does it so well, it's almost like he might have written a book about it.

Tariffs are working very quickly.

Its as if Donald J Trump was a business man before!


It's interesting what happens when you don't roll over and bow down to other foreign leaders.






http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.198420.1314073990!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/alg-bow-jpg.jpg


19   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 10, 10:27am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

China is known to pay lips service "yeah we're gonna liberalize and remove tariffs" and then continue exactly as before.
Don't fall for that crap.
It will take years of high drama negotiations to push the needle even a bit.
20   TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 10, 10:30am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Heraclitusstudent says
China is known to pay lips service "yeah we're gonna liberalize and remove tariffs" and then continue exactly as before.


Yes, back when it was all nicely worded letters and polite requests.

When they face a 25% tariff, and several of their large industries face major export hurdles, and they're fearful of mass layoffs with hundreds of thousands of angry young single males, they will follow through.
21   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 10, 10:37am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

The trade deficit problem cannot be solved by removing a few tariffs in China. There is a saving deficit in the US and unless this is addressed, industries in China facing tariffs will move in some other cheap countries.

The issue that matters most is respect of intellectual property. But this is hard to enforce or verify, especially in the long term. I doubt he can address this with a 1 time threat of tariffs. This will be on-going for a long time.
22   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 10, 10:42am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

"most of the pledges were reiterations of previously announced reforms"
"Analysts have cautioned that any Chinese concessions on autos, while welcome, would be a relatively easy win for China to offer the United States, as plans for opening that sector had been under way well before Trump took office. "

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-china/chinas-xi-renews-pledges-to-open-economy-cut-tariffs-this-year-as-u-s-trade-row-deepens-idUSKBN1HH084
23   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 10, 10:46am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

"Chinese officials have been promising since at least 2013 to ease restrictions on foreign joint ventures in the auto industry, which would allow foreign firms to take a majority stake. They currently are limited to a 50 percent stake in joint ventures and cannot establish their own wholly owned factories.

Tesla’s Chief Executive Elon Musk has railed against an unequal playing field in China and wants to retain full ownership over a manufacturing facility the company is in talks to build there. "

> Even a minority stake in a joint ventures would likely allow the Chinese to have access to technologies sufficiently to duplicate them.
24   TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 10, 10:53am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Heraclitusstudent says
"Chinese officials have been promising since at least 2013 to ease restrictions on foreign joint ventures in the auto industry, which would allow foreign firms to take a majority stake. They currently are limited to a 50 percent stake in joint ventures and cannot establish their own wholly owned factories.


25 years. And CATO, WSJ, NYT, all promised every year of those 25 years it would end "soon".

Reciprocal Tariffs will definitely help.

The trade deficit and budget deficit are absolutely intertwined, as is the Savings Gap. Since outsourced manufacturing pays little to no tax, and the profits go abroad and not saved in the USA. And if it is reinvested in the US, then THOSE profits go overseas. The Free Trade myth is that when a company is outsourced or brought out to/by China, they buy US products and services; but in reality they feed the debt by buying huge amounts of US Treasuries and buying viable US Companies like Smithfield and pocketing the profit, to buy more treasuries and more US businesses, so more profit is redirected out of the US and into China's hands, so they can buy more tre---- you get the point.

As for who owns what, it's trival for a Chinese subcontractor to steal IP since they have the blueprints for hardware sitting in their lap in order to manufacture the product in the first place. Any Chinese manager who gets a 'request' from the Chinese Government to make a copy will certainly hand it over. Whether the subcontractor is 25%, 50%, 75% or 100% owned by a US Investor. It's the location that makes the IP theft possible, not the ownership.
25   Feux Follets   ignore (1)   2018 May 4, 6:28am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy says
Tariffs will definitely help.


As Trump's tariffs bite, small U.S. manufacturers begin to tap the brakes

Encouraged by a booming demand for construction equipment, Mike Haberman was planning in early February to hire at least 30 more workers for the manufacturing facility of his Gradall Industries in Ohio.

That plan now is shelved, Haberman said, because the cost of steel used in Gradall’s telescopic excavators and vacuum trucks shot up by one-third following President Donald Trump’s crackdown on steel imports. As steel costs account for 35 percent of his cost of production, he fears rising prices would not only hurt his export sales, but also give an edge to foreign rivals at home.

“At this point, we really need more visibility before we would bring in more workers,” he told Reuters.

When Trump signed a $1.5 trillion package of tax cuts at the end of 2017, supporters predicted businesses would respond this year with a burst of hiring and investment.

But Reuters interviews with more than a dozen small to mid-sized manufacturing executives and recent U.S. economic data reveal Trump’s protectionist trade policy is starting to lead some of them to take a more cautious approach, and forcing them to put new investment and hiring plans on hold.

While these manufacturers lauded the administration’s push to make U.S. businesses globally competitive through measures such as the tax overhaul and a deregulation drive, they complained that the steel and aluminum tariffs along with the escalating trade spat with China were undercutting those benefits.

Trump has proposed a separate 25 percent import tariff on some 1,300 Chinese products to try to force changes in Beijing’s intellectual property practices. If the tariff comes into effect, they would upend Haberman’s components supplies from China, he said.

The steel and aluminum import tariffs imposed in March were designed to protect the American industries and its workers from global overcapacity and unfair trade practices. Trump justified the measure saying protecting the industries was important to the country’s national security. He argued that the tariffs would re-open closed mills, sustain a skilled workforce, and maintain or increase production.

But the tariffs, which came into effect on March 23, have driven up raw material costs and caused supply delays, rendering the manufacturers’ “Made in the USA” products uncompetitive against their foreign rivals, according to these manufacturing company executives.

The company has delayed plans to spend around $500,000 on equipment this year and bring on new staff to expand.

“It’s going to be 2019 before we buy anything because we don’t have enough confidence to do it. There’s just too much uncertainty out there right now,” Schmitt said.

The Institute for Supply Management (ISM) survey on Tuesday showed how widespread that sentiment is: manufacturers slowed down hiring for a second straight month in April amid complaints that the tariffs have brought business planning to a standstill.

Nicole Sahin, chief executive at recruitment firm Globalization Partners in Boston, says a large multi-national client of hers recently pulled back from an $800 million investment in a U.S.-based energy project after rising steel costs made the investment not viable.

Sahin said all her clients who are exposed to steel prices have put their investment plans on hold because of the business “uncertainty” caused by the tariffs.

Full Article: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-tariffs/as-trumps-tariffs-bite-small-u-s-manufacturers-begin-to-tap-the-brakes-idUSKBN1I5108




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