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The truth about the tax cut

By bob2356 following x   2018 Apr 11, 8:33am 5,177 views   119 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


Straight from a very wealth mouth.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/04/10/donald-trump-gop-tax-cuts-wont-deliver-big-raise-column/471188002/

In selling you their trickle-down tax plan, President Trump and congressional Republicans promised you a $4,000 pay raise.
"This change, along with a lower business tax rate, would likely give the typical American household around a $4,000 pay raise," Trump said in October.
“At least $4,000,” House Speaker Paul Ryan emphasized in a post on his official website.
So now that rich people like me have gotten our billions of dollars in tax cuts, you might be wondering where your $4,000 raise is.

Spoiler alert: You’re not getting one.

Comments 1 - 40 of 119    Next »    Last »

1   dr6B   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 11, 8:36am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

The biggest problem is that one can not borrow to infinity, and at some point person or country needs to start living within its means. One can not cut taxes without cutting expenses.
2   joshuatrio   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 11, 8:39am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Hmmmmm, pretty sure my checks jumped in January(ish) by about $5-6k per year. Assuming it's from the tax cut?

And no, I didn't get a raise. At least I don't think I did lol.
3   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Apr 11, 8:55am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
Straight from a very wealth mouth.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/04/10/donald-trump-gop-tax-cuts-wont-deliver-big-raise-column/471188002/


Let's see, who wrote that article?

..."Nick Hanauer, Opinion contributor"

So now we're taking a "opinion" as the "truth" now from a radical, Left Wing, Liberal ?

What's the world coming to with this Liberal Logic (or lack of logic) in this case?

Folks, you just can't make this shit up!
4   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 11, 8:57am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I got a tax cut. This year I’ll pay about 10k less to government.

I’m not rich, middle class at best. Democrats just hate it when we keep our money instead of giving it to them.
5   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 11, 9:07am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Sniper says
Let's see, who wrote that article?

..."Nick Hanauer, Opinion contributor"

So now we're taking a "opinion" as the "truth" now from a radical, Left Wing, Liberal ?

What's the world coming to with this Liberal Logic (or lack of logic) in this case?

Folks, you just can't make this shit up!


@patrick, why did this post in 2 threads?

Opinion means lie? this is your idea of logic?

Which part do you think are lies? Want to point out all the lies.
6   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 11, 9:10am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

FortWayne says
I got a tax cut. This year I’ll pay about 10k less to government.


That's great that people are happy about borrowing from their children and grand children rather than paying their own bills.
7   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 11, 9:45am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
patrick, why did this post in 2 threads?


@bob2356 it's a bug in the instant comment feature. Going to fix it this morning.

It's an illusion that it actually posted to a different thread. It's permanent only in the thread for which it was intended. For other threads, it was just a DOM append if you know what that is. If you reload all will be as expected.
8   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (4)   2018 Apr 11, 10:02am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Around $3800 decrease in Federal taxes this year for my family.
9   HEYYOU   ignore (16)   2018 Apr 11, 10:15am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

HEYYOU's federal tax proves that there is no tax cut.
A tax is just an example of Republican Redistribution Socialism that steals from those that create their personal wealth.
Fucking Rep/Con theives! Why do they punish the Free Market?
10   willywonka   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 11, 10:19am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

It’s a Putin plot!
11   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (32)   2018 Apr 11, 10:29am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

If anyone believes $4000 is money, they deserve to be shot from a helicopter by someone who regards hunting them as entertainment and can afford to amuse themselves with their richly deserved death, exactly as the Founding Fathers commanded.
12   joshuatrio   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 11, 10:36am   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
That's great that people are happy about borrowing from their children and grand children rather than paying their own bills.


Wait... Are you playing the "federal government needs more of your money, so you're kids don't have to pay it" game?

Shouldn't that have been advice for the previous generations?

For the record, I didn't borrow shit. If the federal government is giving me more of what I earn back, great. They haven't been able to control their spending in years.

If the tax cuts never went through, the money would be wasted anyways.
13   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 11, 10:37am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Where did you learn to borrow Trillions of Dollars?


"I learned it by watching Boomfucks"
14   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 11, 10:46am   ↑ like (7)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
That's great that people are happy about borrowing from their children and grand children rather than paying their own bills.


Wait a minute, you’re saying that if we only paid a LOT more in taxes to balance the current deficit, Congress wouldn’t increase the bill to ensure there would still be a deficit? Strange how we haven’t had a balanced budget since the 90s, even in boom times, no matter if we’ve had Democrats or Republicans in charge. It’s almost like they BOTH want the deficit to continue! As if the deficit was the POINT! Who is to say that it isn’t the point? Whether we pay 20% of our income or 50%, Congress will spend more than we give them.
Is it any wonder that people don’t trust the system? Is it any wonder that people want to give less to an untrustworthy government?
15   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Apr 11, 10:53am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
Opinion means lie? this is your idea of logic?


A personal opinion is now taken as national truth?

Wow, I learn something new...
16   Tenpoundbass   ignore (11)   2018 Apr 11, 10:56am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

The truth about the tax cut, our lease cars are free now compared to this time last year.
Thank you President Trump, for the crumbs.
17   Tenpoundbass   ignore (11)   2018 Apr 11, 1:09pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

"I learned by watching you!"
(Dad pops kid in the head)

Well that's the shittiest joint I ever seen rolled.
Look it's pregnant, it has stems sticking out of the side, this joint is going to do nothing but run.
It even has seeds in it.
18   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 11, 1:52pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

FortWayne says
I got a tax cut. This year I’ll pay about 10k less to government.

I’m not rich, middle class at best. Democrats just hate it when we keep our money instead of giving it to them.


Honest question, how are you getting a $10k tax break? The tax cuts hurt most W-2 earners in CA for the most part with your state income tax percentage going as high as 13. Your property and state income taxes cap at $10k. Show me how it's possible, but if you're getting a $10k tax break, you're not middle class. A $10k savings from these tax cuts is someone making $250k plus very likely in CA which isn't middle class.

These tax "cuts" were meant to hit the high income and property tax, blue states the hardest. And they will. CA, IL, NJ, NY and others. The goal is to flip middle of the road dems over to the other side by showing them how oppressive their state taxes are. I get screwed by it, but it's one of the most brilliant political strategies, ever maybe. Not sure how 2018 plays out election wise, but come 2020 after 2 years of filing taxes under the new rules, blue states anyone thought were untouchable are fair game.
19   PrivilegedtobeWhite   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 11, 3:15pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I’m getting over $8k back per year. Love it.
20   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 11, 5:31pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

PrivilegedtobeWhite says
I’m getting over $8k back per year. Love it.


Not sure if this is sarcasm. I'll ask you like I did FortWayne, how? An $8k SAVINGS or "getting back" is a massive amount of money or income. Unless you're in a zero income tax state AND low property tax state, you'd have to be making $400k plus to see those numbers. The tax brackets were really not reduced all that much when you do the math.

While I love Patnet, let's all be realistic here. If you're making $400k plus a year, you're probably not dicking around here making comments about this. If you're running an actual corporation, paying actual corporate taxes, you're also not here. Again, not a knock on the site, just a fact of having money and having things to do with said money. These claims of 5 figure reductions in taxes just seem a little far fetched.

If you itemized $24k before, the only difference is the actual federal tax rate for the most part. If you itemized more then that and more then $10k was from SALT, you're equal or worse off depending on your income level due to the $10k cap and your location. If you itemized between the $12,700 and the now $24k standard deduction, there's not a chance in hell you're saving almost 5 figures.

Someone needs to explain this to me, honestly. I'm seeing too many claims that there are massive savings. While there are unicorns out there, most of the savings are very modest. The tax cuts were simply for the big corps. Not you or I posting here on Patnet. Most will come home with more money, but unless you guys are just bored and uber wealthy, not a chance most here are even touching 5 figures savings in Fed taxes with the new tax plan.
21   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 11, 5:40pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I’m not borrowing. I earned it.

It’s not my fault government refuses to live within taxes they get. Government spending needs a cut.

bob2356 says
FortWayne says
I got a tax cut. This year I’ll pay about 10k less to government.


That's great that people are happy about borrowing from their children and grand children rather than paying their own bills.
22   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 11, 5:43pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

AMT gone, my tax bracket went down. I did nothing special. That’s not much, some of my clients are going to be saving 100k plus this year. Very successful people, good businesses.

Gonna invest into new equipment likely this year.

WookieMan says
FortWayne says
I got a tax cut. This year I’ll pay about 10k less to government.

I’m not rich, middle class at best. Democrats just hate it when we keep our money instead of giving it to them.


Honest question, how are you getting a $10k tax break? The tax cuts hurt most W-2 earners in CA for the most part with your state income tax percentage going as high as 13. Your property and state income taxes cap at $10k. Show me how it's possible, but if you're getting a $10k tax break, you're not middle class. A $10k savings from these tax cuts is someone making $250k plus very likely in CA which isn't middle class.

These tax "cuts" were meant to hit the high income and property tax, blue states the hardest. And they will. CA, IL, NJ, NY and others. The goal is to flip middle of the road dems over to the other side by showing them how oppressive their state taxes are. I get scr...
23   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 11, 6:09pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

FortWayne says
I’m not rich, middle class at best.


FortWayne says
AMT gone


Lol, seriously? You do understand that those two quotes can't be used by the same person, right?

Also, from my understanding AMT is in place of the typical tax brackets with a higher standard deduction. So a whole lot more taxed at 0% before you start paying the higher AMT. Still not sure where you're getting a $10k tax break being middle class. Unless you're not middle class?

I'll throw you a bone and say middle class is $100k in family income ($58k or so is the actual median/middle class family income). Not a chance in hell a middle class person is saving $10k. Or paying AMT.
24   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Apr 11, 6:43pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

PrivilegedtobeWhite says
I’m getting over $8k back per year.


Based on quick math, I'll also be saving around $8K - $10K next year too.
25   SFace   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 11, 6:46pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

I'm sorry, the tax cut is effective for tax year beginning 1.1.18, which means 2018 taxes are filed and paid in 2019. How would you know how much savings there are when the year is not even 1/3 complete?

If you got a refund or whatever savings being claimed. It's based on old law.

My tax rate pretty much will be same as last year. Lower federal tax bracket took the tax right around amt. Salt was never a deduction anyway. Happy for Floridians and texans which should benefit.

Don't really have issue with eliminating salt deduction. It's kinda ridiculous that state taxes are subsidized by federal. It's like I'll tax you 1000 but the federal will pay you back 370. Feds just figured that one out? Blue state taxes are ridiculous because it's been fed will pay for it. It will make it more difficult for ca and local to introduce more taxes.
26   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Apr 11, 6:57pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

SFace says
I'm sorry, the tax cut is effective for tax year beginning 1.1.18, which means 2018 taxes are filed and paid in 2019. How would you know how much savings there are when the year is not even 1/3 complete?


Because the outline of the plan, along with tax rates have been published. There are numerous online calculators available that will tell you your approximate tax liability under the new plan.

You should use that Smartphone for something useful, instead of just looking up sports scores.
27   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 11, 6:58pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

WookieMan says
I'll throw you a bone and say middle class is $100k in family income ($58k or so is the actual median/middle class family income). Not a chance in hell a middle class person is saving $10k. Or paying AMT.


If middle class is 100k, than every government employee here is upper class dude, because they all make way more. In CA, 100k is not bad, but in a city that won't go far. It's an expensive state. I know I've done well last few years for myself. In Indiana 100k is great, in CA that's not much.

Look at these tables:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_minimum_tax

Everyone in CA who was earning any money was paying AMT. Especially families, there was a huge marriage penalty because it's based on income only where they don't double it from single, not cost of living.
28   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 11, 6:59pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

SFace says
I'm sorry, the tax cut is effective for tax year beginning 1.1.18, which means 2018 taxes are filed and paid in 2019. How would you know how much savings there are when the year is not even 1/3 complete?


I plugged in this years income into 2018 taxes for estimation comparison purposes. Tax software is already updated. It's a nice tax cut.
29   SFace   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 11, 7:00pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Sniper says
SFace says
I'm sorry, the tax cut is effective for tax year beginning 1.1.18, which means 2018 taxes are filed and paid in 2019. How would you know how much savings there are when the year is not even 1/3 complete?


Because the outline of the plan, along with tax rates have been published. There are numerous online calculators available that will tell you your approximate tax liability under the new plan.

You should use that Smartphone for something useful, instead of just looking up sports scores.


I'm happy your tax is linear and your earnings are exactly the same.
30   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 11, 7:24pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

FortWayne says
If middle class is 100k, than every government employee here is upper class dude, because they all make way more. In CA, 100k is not bad, but in a city that won't go far. It's an expensive state. I know I've done well last few years for myself. In Indiana 100k is great, in CA that's not much.


I get what you're saying, but median is middle. $58k is what the middle family makes. I get people make different amounts in different places, but $100k is technically not middle class, it's middle upper class. You saying you're middle class AND pay AMT seems a little tone deaf to me.

I don't know your guys income. But just make up a scenario at least to show me how you're saving high 4 figures and some saying 5 figures. If these calculators are readily available this should be pretty short work. I'll be honest, I doubt the claims, but am open to seeing some data. I'll eat crow if you can show me a scenario, where a middle class person is saving $10k a year. Hell, show me a case where a family making $200k a year would save $10k with the same income in 2018 vs. 2017.
31   SFace   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 11, 7:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

WookieMan says
FortWayne says
If middle class is 100k, than every government employee here is upper class dude, because they all make way more. In CA, 100k is not bad, but in a city that won't go far. It's an expensive state. I know I've done well last few years for myself. In Indiana 100k is great, in CA that's not much.


I get what you're saying, but median is middle. $58k is what the middle family makes. I get people make different amounts in different places, but $100k is technically not middle class, it's middle upper class. You saying you're middle class AND pay AMT seems a little tone deaf to me.

I don't know your guys income. But just make up a scenario at least to show me how you're saving high 4 figures and some saying 5 figures. If these calculators are readily available this should be pretty short work. I'll be honest, I doubt the claims, but am open to seeing some data. I'll eat ...


Cause the calculator said so. Lmfao

The tax cut is definitely more beneficial to certain no income tax states like Florida Washington and Texas

But claiming 10k in savings say 200k in income is effectively a 5% effective tax rate cut. We know that only applies if all the stars are aligned

If you a LLC owner and hire people, then yeah. Tax cuts are significant.
32   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 11, 7:32pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

SFace says
Cause the calculator said so. Lmfao


I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt here. I have no problem being proven wrong, honestly. I just don't know any scenario where someone making $200k in 2017 is going to save $10k in federal taxes in 2018 all thing being equal, besides the new tax law. This is my income range and have done my own taxes for 15 years. I'm interested in these calculators or some data to back the claims up is all. .
33   SFace   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 11, 7:37pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

WookieMan says
SFace says
Cause the calculator said so. Lmfao


I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt here. I have no problem being proven wrong, honestly. I just don't know any scenario where someone making $200k in 2017 is going to save $10k in federal taxes in 2018 all thing being equal, besides the new tax law. This is my income range and have done my own taxes for 15 years. I'm interested in these calculators or some data to back the claims up is all. .


The tax cuts are well documented, the median person gets 1800 or so. The rich will laugh and save 2.6% on higher base and, business owners cream due to pass thru deductions
The upper working class in blue states get diddly squat.

If you are middle class, you get around 2k, more in Texas. But not 10k
34   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 11, 7:45pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

SFace says
The tax cuts are well documented, the median person gets 1800 or so.


I know. Just trying to get the challenge out there.

The only person I've ignored on this site ever was making false claims like this ($10k savings). I even gave a path for that user to admit they lied and they still wouldn't admit the BS. Maybe the truth is being told, but given the accessibility of the calculators out there, it should be no problem showing the math from '17 to '18 and the savings. I'll wait and keep asking.
35   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Apr 11, 7:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

SFace says
But claiming 10k in savings say 200k in income is effectively a 5% effective tax rate cut. We know that only applies if all the stars are aligned


It's 4% difference on $200K between tax rates 2017 versus 2018, before tweaking:

28% on $200K in 2017



Versus 24% on $200K in 2018



WookieMan says
I have no problem being proven wrong, honestly.


Alright, you both can admit you're wrong now.
36   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 11, 7:57pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Sniper says
It's 4% difference on $200K between tax rates 2017 versus 2018, before tweaking:


Even better with MFJ (second column).

Finally a tax cut that understands that 2 people = income x2, not income x1.2 and penalize you for making more than that. Marriage penalty is gone. Liberals sure had their way of discouraging families with their blood sucking tax plan before.

I really am thankful to Trump for this change. It'll encourage initiative, help Americas families, all good things the left simply will not understand. :)
37   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Apr 11, 8:07pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

FortWayne says
Even better with MFJ (second column).


Plus the increase in the standard deduction to $24K for 2018 (up from $12K).

and if you have kids, The child tax credit will increase from $1,000 to $2,000 per child under age 17.

I wonder where those two guys ran away too?????
38   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 11, 8:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Sniper says
I wonder where those two guys ran away too?????


I'm here. I still haven't heard an explanation of how you yourself are going to save $8-10k or FW. Plug the numbers in on your own chart and the best you can do math wise with $200k income is a $6,300 savings with everything else excluded - see below. Factor in $10k SALT caps in NJ and CA and I'm not sure where you're getting your savings amounts. I'm in IL myself. By my estimation this tax "cut" will take about $2k out of my pocket, not a savings (this is admittedly my own tax situation).

This tax cut was totally intended to fuck blue states with high property taxes and income taxes. That's why I'm taken aback about you guys saying you're going to save 5 figures. If you're making $400k, good for you, because that's probably about what it would take to get those kind of savings and is not middle class income per FW.

I'm okay with these tax cuts. I'm not fighting them. I'm just fighting the numbers you guys are presenting. Show me an actual calculation and not a Wikipedia screen shot of tax rates that we all already know.

39   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 11, 8:41pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Sniper says
I wonder where those two guys ran away too?????


My humble guess is them boys went to find themselves a wife to get a tax cut.
40   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 11, 8:52pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

WookieMan says
I'm here. I still haven't heard an explanation of how you yourself are going to save $8-10k or FW


Come on man, you are not even reading details:

FortWayne says
a tax cut that understands that 2 people = income x2, not income x1.2 and penalize you for making more than that


FortWayne says
Even better with MFJ


I'm MFJ. 2017 = marriage penalty. 2018 = no penalty. Everyone is different of course. Some people can take advantage of child credit, and bigger standard deduction (12->24). Others are simply in better brackets, such as in our case. There is no magic here. Just simply better tax plan that works for everyone. Rich got the smallest tax cut, just 1%.

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