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Patrick.net Moderation Policy

By Patrick following x   2018 Apr 14, 8:43am 2,229 views   53 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    

TL;DR If you are expressing a sincerely held point of view with good will, you don't need to read the rest of this. Such comments and posts are very welcome here.

As of now, I have adopted a modified subset of the Reddit Red Pill moderation policy as the moderation policy for patrick.net:

Grounds for removing comments or posts:

Attacking another user instead of his point
Attacking any group of users instead of their point
Name-calling (any comment that includes "You are a ...")
Being overly argumentative for the sake of argument, harming the spirit of productive discussion
General trollery (deliberately inflammatory remarks)
Concern trolling or any comment about "patrick.net losing quality"
Good-bye posts
Providing no new insight, being repetitive, lacking substance
Spam
Exposing personal information about other users, like home address or real name ("doxing")
Anything that appears low quality to the mods

Open debate and discussion is encouraged, but please bring facts, and not ad hominem attacks or "concern for our well being".

It is very possible to be here and ask questions or disagree without setting off any red flags. However, common attributes of a troll post include:

Leading with a presumptive conclusion: "The fact that you're bitter is getting in the way of.."
Asking fallacious questions to which any answer is an endorsement to a presupposition: "Can anybody tell me why you guys hate women so much?"
Ad hominem: "just because you are bitter.."
Condescension: "This just seems like a bunch of chest beating to me.."
Unfalsifiable rhetoric: phrases, insults, accusations that cannot be falsified and serve no purpose but to manipulate the emotional state of the opponent or onlookers. "This is just a circle jerk"
Accusations of echo chamber/circle jerk: The term "circlejerk" itself is meaningless and unfalsifiable rhetoric used to gain an upper hand in an argument without any of the legwork required to disprove the opponent's points.
Concern: "I feel like this site is focusing too much on...": If you are genuinely concerned, contact a moderator, or submit more content of the quality you would prefer to see.
Insulting the moderators: If you disagree with a moderator, that's just fine. You can do so publicly. We're not gods, we don't know everything. However, if you show disrespect to the moderators by using ad hominem attacks or thinly disguise an insult as a "genuine" disagreement, you will be banned.

Our moderators do a lot of work to keep our patrick.net clean and functioning on a daily basis such deleting flame comments and attempting to keep discussions on track. Please do not make our jobs harder. Thank you!

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14   WillPowers   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 19, 6:30pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Liberal comedian Bill Maher defended InfoWars host Alex Jones on Friday’s episode of Real Time with Bill Maher, arguing that self-described liberals should be in favor of free speech as it is a core American value.

https://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2018/08/18/bill-maher-blasts-liberals-over-alex-jones-censorship-supposed-to-be-for-free-speech/
15   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Aug 19, 6:38pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

“You are a wonderful human being”

:)
16   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 24, 8:24am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

@Patrick - Not accusing any of moderators of abuse, so let's not derail this. I am one and am an ass sometimes (though I delete very, very little). But in an attempt to be above board with non-moderators, would it be possible to leave a placeholder for comments that get deleted? Basically moderator X has deleted commenter X where the original comment was. Also, maybe a placeholder for commenter X has marked your comment personal, until it either gets deleted or moderators have approved it?

I think the moderation has been helpful, but in all honesty, there's no accountability. You might have logs and can check that, but I think it might clean things up even more if everyone knew who was marking shit personal and then who deleted it. There seems to be some accusations toward moderators and I think it's cluttering things up in the conversations going on. I don't know what to believe, so I don't believe either party. If the conversation gets into he said she/he said, it kind of makes the site less interesting in my opinion.

Not sure if it's difficult to do or you of course might not like the idea. Just throwing it out there.
17   Aphroman   ignore (6)   2018 Aug 24, 8:28am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I think the moderation has been helpful, but in all honesty, there's no accountability. You might have logs and can check that, but I think it might clean things up even more if everyone knew who was marking shit personal and then who deleted it.


WOOKIE MONSTER FOR THE WIN!

It’s refreshing as all hell to see someone gets it.

THANK YOU WOOKIE
18   RafiMaas   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 24, 8:40am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
I think the moderation has been helpful, but in all honesty, there's no accountability.


Nail on the head!

If one marks a personal post personal and it gets reposted the personal button loses its usefulness. Until there is a solution I will just quote the personal comments for all to see.
19   Aphroman   ignore (6)   2018 Aug 24, 8:54am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

RafiMaas says
WookieMan says
I think the moderation has been helpful, but in all honesty, there's no accountability.


Nail on the head!

If one marks a personal post personal and it gets reposted the personal button loses its usefulness. Until there is a solution I will just quote the personal comments for all to see.


That’s not a bad solution

But it doesn’t change the fact that this once liberal forum has been hijacked by a few right wing moderators who are working to censor Free Speech.

How far we’ve fallen from the days of Patrick.net being a Free Speech forum
20   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Aug 24, 8:57am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick sees all deleted comments, and knows who marked what as personal, and who deleted what comments. This isn't something that happens in the dark.

Publicly exposing moderators to abuse on deleted comments though is a terrible idea. Patrick already has the information, he should decide if there is abuse or not, not a chorus of clowns who have been screaming for months that moderation should be shelved IMO.
21   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 24, 8:57am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Again, I'm not accusing anyone, moderator or non-moderator. I rarely see comments in moderation cause I haven't been here much this summer, so I simply can't get a feel for what's going on. I've been enjoying the summer and the kids are back in school, so I have some more free time now. Just seems like when I peaked in here and there over the summer that moderation would pop up in a lot of the topics.

There's likely to be problems with this idea as it brings user identity more into the equation. So it might backfire. Specifically with the marking personal placeholder suggestion for all users. But, as a moderator, I have no problem explaining a deletion if I truly felt it was a personal attack or too much talk about another user.
22   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Aug 24, 9:00am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I have ZERO problem explaining a deletion, but I do have problem with publicly outing mods. That just opens up people personally to attacks, and ad homs for no real benefit. Terrible idea.
23   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 24, 9:05am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
I have ZERO problem explaining a deletion, but I do have problem with publicly outing mods. That just opens up people personally to attacks, and ad homs for no real benefit. Terrible idea.


I actually don't disagree with your sentiment. And I know you have explained deletions in the past. It was just an idea to maybe test drive.

Ultimately the attacks would just get deleted though like they do now. It's already happening when users attack moderators. I'm not sure the outcome would be much different then it is now. Again, I mention this could backfire as it brings the user to the forefront on marking personal or us deleting. But we all know the anon system didn't work either. The site is cleaner discussion wise, but too many times this summer I noticed conversations turning to what we are doing as moderators.
24   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Aug 24, 9:14am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I think that's simply part of a moderated forum. Now I'm not here 24/7, so TwoScoops may have a different experience, but I find that the biggest complainers are usually the biggest trolls. I have no sympathy for people purposefully trying to troll.

Here's the thing, and you said you were gone for a better part of the Summer, so I'll give me 2 cents of what I experienced during the Summer on Pat.net.


Troll User: "Trump cultist are total fags, why can't they accept that they love sucking dicks?"

*above doesn't get deleted*

Responding User: "Well I don't think Trump cultist are all gay."

Troll User: "You're too dense to realize how gay Trump cultist have become."

*above DOES get deleted and Troll users comments start going into moderation queue via an algorithm put into place by Patrick*

Troll User: "Wow, fucking mods are censoring me bro. What did I do? The moderation of this site has become super biased towards right wing fags."


So yes, there are people screaming about the moderation policy, but 99% of the time, I can identify who is screaming the loudest, and know exactly what lead to them getting auto-moderated. I don't think any mods here are abusing any rules put in place, but I do see MANY trolls who are continually pushing the limits of civility, and then crying foul when they finally do get slapped.

I have zero sympathy. People need to act like fucking adults, or join 4Chan.
25   RafiMaas   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 24, 9:20am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
I have ZERO problem explaining a deletion, but I do have problem with publicly outing mods. That just opens up people personally to attacks, and ad homs for no real benefit. Terrible idea.


Actually it's like the blue wall of silence. Police might explain something but just because they do doesn't mean they're not lying.
26   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Aug 24, 9:21am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

RafiMaas says
Goran_K says
I have ZERO problem explaining a deletion, but I do have problem with publicly outing mods. That just opens up people personally to attacks, and ad homs for no real benefit. Terrible idea.


Actually it's like the blue wall of silence. Police might explain something but just because they do doesn't mean they're not lying.


Yeah, but the vast majority of people don't get tased or shot for "doing nothing".
27   RafiMaas   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 24, 9:25am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
I have ZERO problem explaining a deletion, but I do have problem with publicly outing mods. That just opens up people personally to attacks, and ad homs for no real benefit. Terrible idea.


That is exactly what I'd think one would say if they know that they aren't doing a good job and don't want their work scrutinized.
28   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 24, 9:27am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Let me see what I can do over the weekend.
29   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Aug 24, 9:27am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

RafiMaas says
That is exactly what I'd think one would say if they know that they aren't doing a good job and don't want their work scrutinized.


I let the cleanliness of the current forum speak for itself.

The types of debates being had on this forum NOW, and the overall civility are nearly pristine compared to 2 years ago when Iwog was running wild. Lick the floor clean.

You can say whatever you want about the moderation, but this place cleaned up well (and I wasn't even a proponent of moderation in the first place).
30   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 24, 9:31am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
So yes, there are people screaming about the moderation policy, but 99% of the time, I can identify who is screaming the loudest, and know exactly what lead to them getting auto-moderated. I don't think any mods here are abusing any rules put in place, but I do see MANY trolls who are continually pushing the limits of civility, and then crying foul when they finally do get slapped.


Obviously Patrick hasn't been around this morning so far, but I'm not in disagreement with what you're saying. I guess maybe if he could explain his algorithm to some extent. I think some people are going on auto-mod for using the personal button too much and they're thinking it's us or some other user. Maybe that's part of the problem. If it's out in the open, it "might" help clean things up. At a minimum maybe a place holder for auto-moderated comments? "Comment X by user X was auto deleted." or something like that. I think there's some misconception about us deleting stuff versus it being the auto-mod feature.

And he may have explained how auto mod works in another thread and I missed, so my apologies if he has.
31   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Aug 24, 9:39am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Yeah, Patrick explained it in a previous thread. I don't know the threshold, but it's something like "if X amount of comments get marked personal, then future comments get put into auto-moderation", and it doesn't have to be mods I believe, it can be normal users that add to that threshold. Eventually the auto-mod limit disappears and users go back to normal if they behave.

I honestly feel like the system works really well because I don't think any of the mods are here more than a few hours a day total, so anyone who is being "extra trolly" gets caught even when we are not here.
32   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 24, 9:41am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Yes, I think it's 3 comments in moderation that marks results in further comments going into moderation until I undo that status. I'll clear that now. Looks like it was only Leon there.
33   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 24, 9:52am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
Yeah, Patrick explained it in a previous thread. I don't know the threshold, but it's something like "if X amount of comments get marked personal, then future comments get put into auto-moderation", and it doesn't have to be mods I believe, it can be normal users that add to that threshold. Eventually the auto-mod limit disappears and users go back to normal if they behave.

I honestly feel like the system works really well because I don't think any of the mods are here more than a few hours a day total, so anyone who is being "extra trolly" gets caught even when we are not here.


Patrick says
Yes, I think it's 3 comments in moderation that marks results in further comments going into moderation until I undo that status. I'll clear that now. Looks like it was only Leon there.


This is fine. I'm thinking maybe just throw it in at the top of this thread, at least for new users.

There's still the issue if you're jumping around to different threads, make 5 comments and you don't necessarily know what is being marked personal without going back and seeing if it's there. Or do users get an email notifying them of a personal comment? Either I'm too nice and haven't written a personal comment ;) (working on that) or there's no notification. Just trying to figure out why there's so much mod talk/bash going on.

And again, not accusing anyone of anything. Just an observation over the summer reading, but not being engaged in the site.
34   Aphroman   ignore (6)   2018 Aug 28, 3:17pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
Patrick sees all deleted comments, and knows who marked what as personal, and who deleted what comments. This isn't something that happens in the dark.

Publicly exposing moderators to abuse on deleted comments though is a terrible idea. Patrick already has the information, he should decide if there is abuse or not, not a chorus of clowns who have been screaming for months that moderation should be shelved IMO.


As of when

We discussed this recently and at the time he said it wasn’t the case.

Our discussion did seem to lead to some potential positive feedback and changes to the moderation system here at Patnet. I do believe @Patrick sees the value in transparency and accountability

I’m wondering why you don’t
35   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Aug 28, 3:20pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

There's a few in the mod queue that can't be adjudicated
36   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 28, 3:22pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
There's a few in the mod queue that can't be adjudicated


I think it's because at least two of them are top notch comments ;)
37   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 28, 3:22pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
There's a few in the mod queue that can't be adjudicated


I think it's because at least two of them are top notch comments ;)


Mistake made. Only one comment ;)
38   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Aug 28, 3:24pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I approved everything to clear out the mod queue.
39   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 28, 3:26pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
I approved everything to clear out the mod queue.


Oh boy, nice. As a side note, I will never moderate my own comments put there or comments directed at me. I could have deleted some and kept mine up. Not for me to decide.
40   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 28, 5:39pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
There's a few in the mod queue that can't be adjudicated


Yes, sorry about that, did not finish creating the links to sort comments in moderation yet.

So soon, once a comment is flagged (going to replace "personal" with "flag") then the moderation queue will have alternatives like:

approve
spam
personal
doxing
etc

And then the moderators can classify the comment instead of just deleting it. This has a number of beneficial effects:

* moderators (and maybe premium users if I bring that back) will be able to see the content of all those flagged comments
* I'll have a record of which users are prone to personal attacks, etc
* I can use the data for auto-moderation to some degree when I get that working
41   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 28, 8:55pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

OK, now the "personal" links has been changed to "flag", and it can be used to put any kind of bad content into moderation, like personal insults, spam, or doxing.

And the moderators now have the ability to classify comments once they are in moderation.

There are probably some bugs in it since I'm kinda tired. Let me know what doesn't work right.
42   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 4, 11:39am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
OK, now the "personal" links has been changed to "flag", and it can be used to put any kind of bad content into moderation, like personal insults, spam, or doxing.

And the moderators now have the ability to classify comments once they are in moderation.

There are probably some bugs in it since I'm kinda tired. Let me know what doesn't work right.


Seems to be working and I like it so far. Like that there's a placeholder there in the thread still so people can see the reason a comment is gone.
43   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Sep 4, 12:01pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
Seems to be working and I like it so far.


Of course you do. It's perfect. Moderators can attack other posters with total freedom, but when a poster responds back, they get put into "moderation cue". Doesn't that just SCREAM "Freedom of Speech"?
44   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 4, 12:50pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrMagic says
WookieMan says
Seems to be working and I like it so far.


Of course you do. It's perfect. Moderators can attack other posters with total freedom, but when a poster responds back, they get put into "moderation cue". Doesn't that just SCREAM "Freedom of Speech"?


Go ahead and flag my personal comments. Once in moderation I'll delete them (other mods, if they're really personal, burn 'em). I have not once stated I'm above the law of patnet. And I do have personal, albeit true comments on the board.

If you don't want to be attacked, maybe have a level of decorum above cave man. You've had a few decent contributes here. When it comes to other peoples threads though, you tend to trash them and you know it. It's a game for you. But for other people looking to converse, it's definitely an annoyance.
45   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Sep 4, 8:53pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
OK, now the "personal" links has been changed to "flag",


@Patrick, what's the deal with the automatic "flag" pop-up when posting a comment?
46   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 4, 9:01pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

@MrMagic you've directly personally attacked so many people that it triggered a switch which auto-flags all your comments now.

And that's how it's supposed to work. I don't want insults and abuse of other users, but instead friendly discussion of the points other users want to make.
47   Aphroman   ignore (6)   2018 Sep 4, 9:48pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

@Patrick, did you take away the ability for people to edit their posts?
48   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 5, 7:19am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

No, people can edit their own posts, but I think they can't delete posts more than a week old.

Which post did you want to edit?
49   Aphroman   ignore (6)   2018 Sep 5, 8:00am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
No, people can edit their own posts, but I think they can't delete posts more than a week old.

Which post did you want to edit?


It was actually just a typo i was going to correct. What is the reasoning behind not allowing people to edit/delete posts after a certain amount of time? You afford yourself that privilege, why not the rest of the community? What harm is there in allowing people to edit/delete their posts?
50   HEYYOU   ignore (18)   2018 Sep 5, 10:47am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Attacking any group of users instead of their point


It's your site do what you choose.
The greatest personal insult is being called a Rep or Dem.
Fuck Republicans,Democrats,Conservative,Liberals
And particularly fuck any voter that elected pieces of slime that raised my taxes.
I can be banned but not silenced.

I reported to Lost & Found,"I've lost my "freespeechforum".
51   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Sep 8, 8:53am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
@MrMagic you've directly personally attacked so many people that it triggered a switch which auto-flags all your comments now.

And that's how it's supposed to work. I don't want insults and abuse of other users, but instead friendly discussion of the points other users want to make.


Nope.... wrong...

You've given some Special Snowflakes here the ability to "flag" comments that provide "facts" and "data" that opposes the narrative they're pushing. So, instead of them providing data that supports their twisted narrative, they hit the "flag" button, and make the comment that makes them look bad disappear. You're allowing their "feelz" to win over the truth.

It's no different than Twitter shadow banning, or what Facebook or Google do to suppress different opinions. You've just made it easier for the crazy to continue, by allowing suppression of the facts. The SJW and Snowflakes are winning here now.
52   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 8, 2:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrMagic says
Nope.... wrong...

You've given some Special Snowflakes here the ability to "flag" comments that provide "facts" and "data" that opposes the narrative they're pushing. So, instead of them providing data that supports their twisted narrative, they hit the "flag" button, and make the comment that makes them look bad disappear. You're allowing their "feelz" to win over the truth.

It's no different than Twitter shadow banning, or what Facebook or Google do to suppress different opinions. You've just made it easier for the crazy to continue, by allowing suppression of the facts. The SJW and Snowflakes are winning here now.


I actually kind of agree with your sentiment here. And Patrick could probably verify, I think I've only flagged less then 5 of your comments. That said, Patrick is not wrong. I don't know if it subliminal or intentional, but you get into many threads here for what seems like pure joy in fucking with other people.

It's not about handling it or being a snowflake, it's just frankly annoying after a while. Being honest and I actually don't think this is a personal comment either, but more of a criticism on your style of posting. Like I said, rarely nuke your stuff. But maybe a bit more civility would make everyone's lives easier. Unless you're simply a troll and take enjoyment in people coming at you. If it's the latter, then your stuff is probably going to continue to get nuked (not by me so much, but will do it).

And if you don't care, well, I don't think anyone cares what you care. Would just be nice to have some better threads not get derailed with things like "reading comprehension" every thread, every day. Respect is a thing.
53   curious2   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 8, 4:19pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
@Patrick, did you take away the ability for people to edit their posts?


I tried fixing links in my old comments but the site doesn't let me edit them. Some old intra-site links don't work anymore: the link goes to the post but not the specific comment.

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