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Oregon public university President retires-to a $76,000+ a month pension-yes 76k a month!!!!!!!!!

By lostand confused following x   2018 Apr 15, 5:47am 2,224 views   64 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/14/business/pension-finance-oregon.html

A public university president in Oregon gives new meaning to the idea of a pensioner.
Joseph Robertson, an eye surgeon who retired as head of the Oregon Health & Science University last fall, receives the state’s largest government pension.
It is $76,111.
Per month.
That is considerably more than the average Oregon family earns in a year


WTF and I thought IL was bad.

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1   Reality   ignore (5)   2018 Apr 15, 6:50am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Generals' and admirals' salaries top out in the $140k range.

Public sector jobs that have almost guaranteed job security shouldn't have very high salaries and pensions. Some private sector job holders can earn a lot because they out-compete their competitors. Otherwise, everyone would just go into public sector jobs and quickly debasing the currency to nothing. Only the private sector produce real goods and services that people buy with their own money. Winners getting paid more in the private sector leads to more production. In the public sector, paying the guaranteed jobs extraordinarily high salaries and pensions wouldn't bring forth more production but only luring the smart minds away from the productive sector.
2   anotheraccount   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 15, 7:11am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
For the head of a major university that's not at all outrageous.


Really? 76K a month?
3   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 15, 7:44am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Good reason to cut taxes. Government spending is insanely inefficient.

It’s same in CA, higher taxes, less services and money is going to pay bloated pensions.

And these people still go on strikes to complain that their pensions are not enough.
4   mell   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 15, 7:45am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

anotheraccount says
bob2356 says
For the head of a major university that's not at all outrageous.


Really? 76K a month?


I'd argue that is more than outrageous. Any public employee retiring on more than 100K a year should be considered outrageous, with few exceptions. if you add this up for 20 years+ res of life expectancy, that is 2.5MM. Enough is enough. And I don't give a fuck if corporate managements NOT on subsidies makes much more, this is not taxpayer - but customer spent and earned - money like it is for the public employees. Most of these people have done far less for society than the average Joe Schmoe during his working life.
5   RC2006   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 15, 7:50am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

If that was a 40hr work week thats 438 an hour, and its for retirement how can it not raise red flags nobody should be rolling over for this..
6   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 15, 7:54am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

They are not public servants , but public masters. This is just like the royalty of the old days, they put a tax and if you don't pay those taxes you go to jail or they confiscate your business-while the royals lived in Caligulan splendor.

Today's government workers and government face no risks, nobody can question them, they receive outrageous payouts far in excess of what they do -all paid by common folks taxes. if we can't pay taxes, our properties can be seized and if we don't pay income taxes we are thrown in jail so these public "servants" can live in caligulan splendor. nothing has changed!
7   RC2006   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 15, 7:56am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

They also have a coach that is getting 46k a month in retirement, insanity.
8   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 15, 8:02am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

anotheraccount says
bob2356 says
For the head of a major university that's not at all outrageous.


Really? 76K a month?


Yes it is high, but he's running a 3 billion dollar operation. The people around him are retiring with almost equally high salaries. The university of oregan head football coach gets 60k a month.

I agree that the public sector pension system is badly broken, But someone running a 3 billion dollar corporation in the private sector would make more than double the salary and probably double that retirement. So I don't know why this is a big deal.

Reality says
Generals' and admirals' salaries top out in the $140k range.


Sorry, what I meant was that there are plenty of people in public service that get as high or higher retirement as a percentage of salary, Military gets 75% after 30 years. I was not comparing on a dollar basis. I deleted the post because it's poorly presented.
9   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 15, 8:08am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

lostand confused says

Today's government workers and government face no risks, nobody can question them, they receive outrageous payouts far in excess of what they do -


Running a 3 billion dollar university and hospital with a salary of 1.7 million isn't outrageous. Sorry, but it just isn't.
10   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 15, 8:21am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Yes it is outrageous.
High taxes on people who have no retirement benefits to pay bloated government pensions is wrong.

Government is ran like they are our masters.

bob2356 says
lostand confused says

Today's government workers and government face no risks, nobody can question them, they receive outrageous payouts far in excess of what they do -


Running a 3 billion dollar university and hospital with a salary of 1.7 million isn't outrageous. Sorry, but it just isn't.
11   PrivilegedtobeWhite   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 15, 8:33am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

The Lefty supports astronomical salaries and pensions? Today must be Opposite Day.
12   RC2006   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 15, 8:38am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
Running a 3 billion dollar university and hospital with a salary of 1.7 million isn't outrageous. Sorry, but it just isn't.


Maybe that’s the problem not an excuse why is it a 3 billion dollar university/hospital, because they are overpaying paying people ridiculous sums of money.
13   RafiMaas   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 15, 8:42am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

FortWayne says
High taxes on people who have no retirement benefits


I believe if one is paying high taxes then they are also paying into their retirement package. It's called social security. Don't let anyone take your retirement package from you.
14   dr6B   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 15, 8:43am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
Running a 3 billion dollar university and hospital with a salary of 1.7 million isn't outrageous. Sorry, but it just isn't.

I do not see why any public servant should earn more than US President, which is 400 K/year and arguably is a more difficult job.

And why should some, more equal people get non-social security pensions when most can only dream about it?
15   RafiMaas   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 15, 8:44am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

RC2006 says
bob2356 says
Running a 3 billion dollar university and hospital with a salary of 1.7 million isn't outrageous. Sorry, but it just isn't.


Maybe that’s the problem not an excuse why is it a 3 billion dollar university/hospital, because they are overpaying paying people ridiculous sums of money.


Or overcharging the insurance companies. No wonder health care is so expensive.
16   dr6B   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 15, 8:45am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

RafiMaas says
I believe if one is paying high taxes then they are also paying into their retirement package.


The maximum monthly Social Security benefit payment for a person retiring in 2016 at full retirement age is $2,639.
17   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 15, 8:55am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

RafiMaas says
FortWayne says
High taxes on people who have no retirement benefits


I believe if one is paying high taxes then they are also paying into their retirement package. It's called social security. Don't let anyone take your retirement package from you.


Social security, no matter what will never match a pension. It's bread crumbs in comparison.
18   SFace   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 15, 8:59am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

That's outrageous. 76k a month is basically 10m in lifetime annuity. Obviously the design of the pension is flawed.

The problem with pension is these deferred compensation will be felt later. It is not similar to a 3b company because all you are asked to do is provide government services. Those $$ just takes away from other public services.
19   HEYYOU   ignore (17)   2018 Apr 15, 9:23am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

FortWayne says
Government is ran like they are our masters.


I would like to thank Democrat & Republican voters.
Let me not forget to thank Progressives & Independents that vote for Ds & Rs at times.
20   theoakman   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 15, 10:12am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Earning a high salary as a university president should not be an issue. However, the pension calculated off that salary needs to have it's own rules. They use the formula for middle class americans and apply it to that and it yields incredible sums of money ad infinitum. Pensions should be capped at 100k per year. What's more offensive is the 100 deans and vps that permeate the university.
21   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 15, 10:28am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

There should just be a cap on pensions.
22   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 15, 11:08am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

pensions should be capped to match social security, this way government has interest in making sure that social security stays alive.
23   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 15, 2:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

theoakman says
Earning a high salary as a university president should not be an issue. However, the pension calculated off that salary needs to have it's own rules. They use the formula for middle class americans and apply it to that and it yields incredible sums of money ad infinitum.


PERS has been screwed up for 30 years. I lived in Oregon and know all about it. It is far from front page news in the sunday NY Times.

Yes they need to redo PERS rules. Or better simply pay into an IRA and forget about managing pension funds. There is always too much temptation for the government to under fund or dip into them. Of course there isn't any reason IRA's can't be dipped into also. It's been done in Europe. The government requires fund managers to invest some percentage of the IRA into government bonds. It will happen in the US too when things get tight enough.
24   marcus   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 15, 3:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Reality says
more production but only luring the smart minds away from the productive sector


Yeah, whatever we do, let's not be putting good minds in education or law enforcement. THey can't do anything for next quarters earnings per share there.
25   marcus   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 15, 3:31pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

theoakman says
Earning a high salary as a university president should not be an issue. However, the pension calculated off that salary needs to have it's own rules. They use the formula for middle class americans and apply it to that and it yields incredible sums of money ad infinitum. Pensions should be capped at 100k per year. What's more offensive is the 100 deans and vps that permeate the university.


Yes, exactly correct on both counts. Especially this: "They use the formula for middle class americans and apply it to that"

That's a gaping flaw in the govt pension system.
26   BlueSardine   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 15, 4:32pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I would take it a step further and rip the fuckin shit outta the hands of the current overpaid pensioners.
They never deserved it to begin with.
How many people have to suffer because of libeal governmental miscalculations?

marcus says
Pensions should be capped at 100k per year.
27   BlueSardine   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 15, 4:36pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

How libbies govern...
Of course the owls are more important...

"Oregon is a blue state, but in its restive red hinterlands, tax increases are politically off limits and financial distress has been severe since 1994, when logging was curtailed to save an endangered owl. "
28   HowdyThere   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 15, 6:44pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I'm sure that for the university to attract this level of talent, it was necessary to have a compensation package that included a robust pension. C type executives get options and golden parachutes and such, while public servants get gold plated pensions. It's all well deserved I'm sure. Or not?
29   mell   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 15, 7:46pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

HowdyThere says
I'm sure that for the university to attract this level of talent, it was necessary to have a compensation package that included a robust pension. C type executives get options and golden parachutes and such, while public servants get gold plated pensions. It's all well deserved I'm sure. Or not?


No, the public servant's package is payed by the taxpayer. Undeserved.
30   marcus   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 15, 11:57pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

drB6 says
And why should some, more equal people get non-social security pensions when most can only dream about it?


I don't know. Perhaps becasue they commit themselves to service jobs and to jobs with limited upside ? Could that be it ?
31   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 16, 5:28am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

BlueSardine says
How many people have to suffer because of libeal governmental miscalculations?


Conservative states don't have underfunded government pensions? Really? Are you sure?



32   marcus   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 16, 6:20am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

What is the typical homeowner's unfunded liability on their mortgage ?

This pension issue is a problem, but it's also propaganda becasue people don't really understand it.
33   Reality   ignore (5)   2018 Apr 16, 6:41am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

marcus says
Reality says
more production but only luring the smart minds away from the productive sector


Yeah, whatever we do, let's not be putting good minds in education or law enforcement. THey can't do anything for next quarters earnings per share there.


High salaries and pensions for administrators do not result in better education or better law enforcement. In fact, the massive expansion of college administrators in the past couple decades has resulted in the actual teaching being left to adjunct instructors who don't get pension at all nor tenure, but paid not much more than minimum wage! Public/monopoly sector economy/incentives are very different from the private/competitive sector: customers price-shop in the private/competitive sector to keep price down and quality up; if a business has high profit margin, it will attract new entrants to drive down profit margin (i.e. resulting more/better goods/services that people want, at lower cost); whereas in the public sector, when do you think funding gets raised in public school and police department? When the graduation rate is down and crime rate is up! More money spent on the administrators in those public/monopoly sectors to pay more for administrators would only attract the "smart minds" that can understand this perverse incentive mechanism therefore deliberately under-pay and under-fund actual teachers and cops on the beat, so as to result in bad results so that they can demand more funding! That's exactly what's been happening in colleges: massive expansion of administrators and administrators' pay and pensions while cutting corners on the teaching staff. The same thing in the medical industry: massive expansion of administrator to doctor ratio. This is precisely what happens in all publicly-funded/monopolistic sectors.

In public/monopolistic sectors, we need people who enjoy the type of work they do, and are relatively simple-minded when it comes to optimizing their own benefits. High pay/pension for administrators in those sectors accomplish the exact opposite, because they are not under market competitive pressure.
34   Reality   ignore (5)   2018 Apr 16, 6:54am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
Running a 3 billion dollar university and hospital with a salary of 1.7 million isn't outrageous. Sorry, but it just isn't.


It is outrageous because these are non-profits and/or their services largely paid for by tax money (i.e. government granted monopolies). By your math, DOD having a 700B annual (public) budget, should the secretary be paid 360 million dollars a year? and a pension of $180,000,000/yr? What about the head of the social security administration or the POTUS supervising even larger annual budgets?

Private sector (serving individual customers not funded by government) executives have to compete against other private sector companies/executives; the owners of the competitive enterprise or the shareholders decide the pay, and do so at their own peril. The public/monopolistic sector OTOH is literally socking to the taxpayers. High public sector executive pay/pension also result in less resources available to pay the front-line service staff in the public sector, as they split the given pool of tax money at any given time. There is literally no justification whatsoever for high executive pay/pension in the public sector.
35   Reality   ignore (5)   2018 Apr 16, 7:02am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

marcus says
What is the typical homeowner's unfunded liability on their mortgage ?


If a banker negotiates with himself or related party/friends/co-conspirator to set up a bloated mortgage, he'd be arrested for banking fraud.

When a home owner fails to make mortgage payment, he gets foreclosed, not robbing other people to make the payment. Are we going to foreclose on a school district or a government? Are we going to foreclose on the houses of all individual parties who signed / set up the pension funds running short of money before raising taxes on the other taxpayers? Are we going to throw them in jail if the foreclosure sale of all their personal assets can not make up for the short-fall? Perhaps we should!
36   marcus   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 16, 7:20am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

My point was that these numbers represent future obligations.

WE all pay thousands of dollars per year in state taxes. That money goes towards all kind of salaries and other expenses. Including debt, which the liabilites are a form of.

What percentage of state expenditures goes toward unfunded pension liabilities ?
37   zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 16, 7:37am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

marcus says
Perhaps becasue they commit themselves to service jobs and to jobs with limited upside ? Could that be it ?


That's pretty much every job, everywhere.
38   Reality   ignore (5)   2018 Apr 16, 8:12am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

marcus says
My point was that these numbers represent future obligations.

WE all pay thousands of dollars per year in state taxes. That money goes towards all kind of salaries and other expenses. Including debt, which the liabilites are a form of.

What percentage of state expenditures goes toward unfunded pension liabilities ?


Mortgage is a secured debt. It is funded at all time: backed by the house itself, which can be foreclosed to satisfy the loan. Otherwise, the bank wouldn't be lending the money at such low interest rate at all or for that large an amount. Pension is supposed to be funded by employees themselves, not a Ponzi scam, counting on increasing number of future workers paying into it to support previous workers, or an extortion racket counting on future raising of taxes to satisfy past pensions obligations.

The most insidious aspect of gross expansion of public sector jobs and bureaucracy via exaggerated pension promises is that: such a promise inevitably leads to major war. That's how conflicting claims on wealth eventually get settled when the pie is just not big enough to satisfy all claims on it -- a war to decide whose claims don't count. The apologists for government expansion are essentially warmongers.
39   Goran_K   ignore (2)   2018 Apr 16, 9:01am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
Running a 3 billion dollar university and hospital with a salary of 1.7 million isn't outrageous. Sorry, but it just isn't.


"Sorry, but it just isn't" is not a real explanation.

Why is it not outrageous?
40   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 16, 9:43am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Reality says
It is outrageous because these are non-profits and/or their services largely paid for by tax money (i.e. government granted monopolies). By your math, DOD having a 700B annual (public) budget, should the secretary be paid 360 million dollars a year? and a pension of $180,000,000/yr? What about the head of the social security administration or the POTUS supervising even larger annual budgets?


According to KPMG audit from last year OHSU got 33 million in tax money out of a revenue of 3.1 billion. That is 1% of revenue. What exaclty is your defintion of largley?

Ridiculous to compare large federal agencies to autonomous public corporations. The mission and job is totally different.

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