« prev   random   next »

1
0

New Zealand's Rising Homeless Population

By NuttBoxer following x   2018 May 21, 11:34am 658 views   25 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


I've had a strong interest in moving to New Zealand for some time. One thing that has held me back though is that the cost of living seems disproportionate to average wage. Why is such an under-populated island, with a huge farming economy(think local food), so expensive? One thought is data may be skewed towards cities, which always have more problems.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-newzealand-economy-budget/left-behind-why-boomtown-new-zealand-has-a-homelessness-crisis-idUSKCN1IL0UG

1   MisterLefty   ignore (0)   2018 May 21, 2:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Don't the native Maori there live off the fucking land in hobbit like villages?

Now they're homeless? WTF!

Bloody savages, eh wot?

2   Ceffer   ignore (1)   2018 May 21, 3:18pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

They need to go back to the headless problem to eradicate the homeless problem.
3   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (32)   2018 May 21, 8:18pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Fuck, 30 years ago places like Takapuna were dowdy suburbs of Auckland but then got gentrified by the ex-patriate crowds from South Africa and Europe with hard currency to burn.

Kiwis? They're here to wash and park the cars and provide cheap house cleaning services.

If you forgot to buy a house there in 1974 you have no one to blame but yourself.
4   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 May 21, 8:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

NuttBoxer says
I've had a strong interest in moving to New Zealand for some time. One thing that has held me back though is that the cost of living seems disproportionate to average wage. Why is such an under-populated island, with a huge farming economy(think local food), so expensive? One thought is data may be skewed towards cities, which always have more problems.


In the Western world, no country will beat the USA when it comes to the cost of living vs incomes.
5   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 May 21, 9:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

NuttBoxer says
I've had a strong interest in moving to New Zealand for some time. One thing that has held me back though is that the cost of living seems disproportionate to average wage. Why is such an under-populated island, with a huge farming economy(think local food), so expensive? One thought is data may be skewed towards cities, which always have more problems.


Farming is not a high value added product. Technology is a high value added product. One little chip could be worth tons of food.
6   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 May 22, 7:43am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

NuttBoxer says
I've had a strong interest in moving to New Zealand for some time


If you are over 55 you are toast. They don't do residence visa's over 55 unless you plan on writing a 7 figure plus check.

Since I lived there for many years and only recently moved back to the US (temporarilly thank god). I can give some answers.

First, don't believe any press coming out on NZ. It's a country of 4 million where 1/3 lives in Auckland and the rest are scattered along 1200 miles. There is almost no news. Cows getting hit in the road will make all 3 national papers. If some kid drowns you will learn what his favorite toy was, what he had for breakfast, how he kissed and said I love you to gran before going to the beach, etc., etc., etc.. They also recycle stories all the time. You will read a huge long story about a horrendious murder than get to the end to find out it happened 20 years ago and there is a parole hearing being scheduled. The NZ press does way over the top sensationlism without feeling the need to be constrained by any pesky facts. Think brit fleet st tabloids or fox news on steroids. The NZ press thrives on the motto never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Everything is very expensive in NZ. It's 2 sparcely populated islands thousands of miles from anywhere with very little manufacturing. Think the city of philly scattered from boston to miami. Towns are 5-25k people 25-150 miles apart with nothing in between. Everything gets imported in small quantities from a long way away and distributed in very small quantities over long distances. Driving slowly over mountanious 2 lane roads through small towns. If you average 45mph for a long trip you are doing great. There is only 15 miles of divided highway in the entire country. So instead of shipping container ships with 20k containers each of say plumbing supplies to port los angels you get half a dozen containers into auckland that then gets distributed for 1200 miles a couple dozen cases per town. The south island is worse since it costs 5k to ship a container over the cook straght. Economy of scale plays big.

Real estate is very affected by this. Materials are expensive. Labor is expensive, salaries are relativly high and there are no illegals working cheaply. Prices are even more affected by urban boundries. Land has to be fully infilled before expanding the urban boundry, driving up land prices. Which is why there is nothing between towns, building has to be within the urban boundry. No sprawl, but at a price. Also district councils front load the cost of increasing services with fees for new developments. I paid 40k to the council to subdivide a lot for the future cost of added services for the addtitional population of the new house.

The other big factor driving housing prices is what I call kiwi clever. NZ was totally socialist for many years and allowed almost no imports. So people literally got by with bailing wire and string. Now there is a national obsession on everything being clever and unique ( the kiwi "Number 8 Wire" problem http://www.mondaq.com/NewZealand/x/292020/Patent/Why+New+Zealands+Number+8+Wire+mentality+is+bad+for+the+economy). Functional is not part of the plan in case you were wondering. Especially houses. Almost all houses are one offs designed from scratch. Odd shapes, complex roofs, flat out stupid designs are the norm. The rule of thumb in building is corners cost money and NZ houses have lots and lots of corners. I once asked a builder why he didn't just use plans over instead of pay 20k+ for a new design for each house. The horror. You would have thought I asked why he didn't shoot his children.

Farming is for export. It's the economy. It's more profitable to export than to sell locally. Farmers can ship to terminals in bulk and load in bulk rather than packing in small amounts and distributing around the country. I can buy NZ lamb in the US cheaper than in NZ. Also NZ wine for that matter even when I lived in the Marlborough winery region and bicycled to lunch at the wineries.

The local food thing is somewhat overated if you don't have any other sources. You get a month or 2 of a product and then nothing the rest of the year. So you end up eating aparagus or strawberries or whatever every meal for 6 weeks straight then are done for the year.

If you want to go to NZ then you need to have a NZ lifestyle. That's the whole point of living in another country. You won't have the US consumer lifestyle even if you are very wealthy enough to afford it. It's not possible since American style shopping simply doesn't exist even in Auckland. Most places have a small supermarket (usually pak & save) , the warehouse ( think 50% scale kmart), maybe a bunnings (25% scale home depot), and small stores. Living in NZ is about outdoor lifestye. Hiking, biking, surfing, sailing, long lunches looking over the ocean, camping, tennis, squash (not outdoor but a national obsession, any town of more than 4 buildings has squash courts) etc., etc. If that's not your thing then NZ probably isn't a good choice.

The average wage is also skewed. Shorter work weeks, a lot more paid vacation, public health, cheap university, much lower property taxes make a big difference. I pay less total taxes in socialist NZ than in US and got a lot more services for it.

No the data isn't skewed by the cities. There aren't really any cites other than Auckland. Wellington is something like 400k and CC is 300k or so. Big towns more than cities.
7   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 May 22, 7:48am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

MisterLefty says
Don't the native Maori there live off the fucking land in hobbit like villages?

Now they're homeless? WTF!

Bloody savages, eh wot?


Some live in a traditional marae. The problem is they boot the troublemakers out who then go to live in town and become petty criminals/homeless.
8   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 May 22, 11:33am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Strategist says
Farming is not a high value added product.


It is when you are so isolated, due to import fees. We spend more on food than any other monthly cost. Having good local food should keep those prices low for New Zealander's, but doesn't seem to be the case from what I've heard.
9   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 May 22, 11:45am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
Farming is for export. It's the economy.


That's what I suspected. The expat sites I've read say the same thing about consumerism, and outdoors. Funny thing about me is I'm an American who likes making his purchases last, doesn't see the point in clothes for fashion, and loves the outdoors. New Zealand kind of lines up perfect for me. Sad to hear they don't understand the value of being able to feed themselves with local food though.
10   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 May 22, 12:21pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

NuttBoxer says
That's what I suspected. The expat sites I've read say the same thing about consumerism, and outdoors. Funny thing about me is I'm an American who likes making his purchases last, doesn't see the point in clothes for fashion, and loves the outdoors. New Zealand kind of lines up perfect for me. Sad to hear they don't understand the value of being able to feed themselves with local food though.


Read again. They understand the value fine and feed themselves just fine locally. Farms are a business. Food is a commodity, the commodity price is the selling price for everyone. NZ distributors pay the same price as export buyers. Then they have to pay the cost to package and distrubute in small quantities over large distances. Which is expensive compared to the scales of operation in US or Europe.

There certainly are local markets and butchers dealing with very small local suppliers. They are always more expensive or are the seconds rejected by bigger operators. Economies of scale favor larger farm operations and the national chains. Why would it be any different in NZ than anywhere else?

There is a lot to the word food. Some crops make no sense locally. Fruits and veggies plus meat obviously do well. Grain makes very little sense to grow. There is little climate or land suited to cultivating grain and what is has better value as pasture for sheeip or cows. So the idea of local food depends on what can be produced locally.
11   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 May 22, 12:32pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

NuttBoxer says
The expat sites I've read say the same thing about consumerism, and outdoors


Take expat sites with a big grain of salt. They tend to attract the unhappy no matter where they live whiners in large numbers. People who are happy have better things to do. I never hang out with American expats. Luckiliy there are very very few. They tend to attach themselves like leaches and insist you listen to them complain ad infinitum. No matter where you are it seems American expats always want to sit around and complain that if this place was just like America it would be great.
12   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 May 22, 8:21pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
NuttBoxer says
I've had a strong interest in moving to New Zealand for some time


If you are over 55 you are toast. They don't do residence visa's over 55 unless you plan on writing a 7 figure plus check.

Since I lived there for many years and only recently moved back to the US (temporarilly thank god). I can give some answers.

First, don't believe any press coming out on NZ. It's a country of 4 million where 1/3 lives in Auckland and the rest are scattered along 1200 miles. There is almost no news. Cows getting hit in the road will make all 3 national papers. If some kid drowns you will learn what his favorite toy was, what he had for breakfast, how he kissed and said I love you to gran before going to the beach, etc., etc., etc.. They also recycle stories all the time. You will read a huge long story about a horrendious murder than get to the end to find out it happened 20 years ago and there is a parole h...


Wonderful post, Bob. Thanks for posting. (Don't let it go to your head)
If anything, it tells me America is the best place to live in, simply because you can choose the lifestyle you want as long as you are able and willing to move.
The New Zealand lifestyle seems to resemble Hawaii, only better.

You did not mention safety, health care, social programs, and taxes. Would like your input.
13   Rin   ignore (4)   2018 May 22, 10:00pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Strategist says
Wonderful post, Bob. Thanks for posting. (Don't let it go to your head)
If anything, it tells me America is the best place to live in, simply because you can choose the lifestyle you want as long as you are able and willing to move.
The New Zealand lifestyle seems to resemble Hawaii, only better.

You did not mention safety, health care, social programs, and taxes. Would like your input.


Strategist, you're missing the greatest piece ... legal brothels!

Try finding those in your home state.

Here are some of my favorites in Auckland downtown ...

http://www.pelicanclub.co.nz

http://femmefatale.co.nz

So yes, if you're an American ex-pat, with some money to spend, you can have fun there.

Sure, Australia's a bit more fun but hey, small town hoeing can be fun too!
14   Rin   ignore (4)   2018 May 22, 10:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Rin says
Strategist, you're missing the greatest piece ... legal brothels!

Try finding those in your home state.


The thing here is that if hoeing were legal in America ... Boston would be the greatest city in the USA.

Imagine banging hoes, catching a Celtics game, walking the Freedom Trail, listening to Aerosmith at the Orpheum, and having Oysters on the Half Shell at Neptunes with your favorite cocktail.

Instead, I'm forced to travel to Australia and New Zealand, to experience the same first world-ness of a place like Boston, minus the accoutrements which makes New England such a great place.
15   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 May 23, 6:42am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Strategist says
You did not mention safety, health care, social programs, and taxes. Would like your input.


Sure why not? Killington doesn't open till friday , it's raining way to hard to bike or climb. Maybe someone will show up for lunch squash.

Sefety is somewhat schizoprenic. There are no lawsuits. The idea of pain and suffering doesn't exist legally. Lawyers do business, criminal, divorces and there aren't many of them. You are free to do whatever you want and if you bust your ass oh well, you'll know better next time. Playgrounds are awesome with ziplines, structures to climb 20+ feet tall, huge swings and slides. Parents accept that kids can get hurt and deal with it if it happens. We had the rere rock slide close to where I lived which was propular. Rere is a football field size rock tilted at a steep angle with a creek running over it. Slippery as shit covered in moss. Rere was flat out dangerous sliding down this huge bumpy rock totally out of control at high speeds into a big pool. Kids as young as 5 went down, including mine. In the US it would have had armed guards around it to keep people out. In NZ it was open to the public and I believe actually on private land. The local joke was that you should bring an air mattress to be comfortable for the ride to the hospital. The sky tower building in auckland has a bungee jump, actually a free fall. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUcsvZU9FPw Can you imagine asking the sears tower people about opening a jump off of their building? Mount Ruapehu is an active volcano with 3 ski area's on it. There are signs all over what to do if the volcano erupts while you are skiing. Ski area on an active volcano in the US? I don't think so.

There are no lawsuits for 2 reasons. Public health care so you don't have to sue for medical expenses and acc (accident compensation commission). If you have an accident the the acc compensates you for lost wages and expenses. Acc is funded by a levy on anything that requires a government permit/registration/license/etc.. The risk is calculated and fees charged based on risk. You pay acc levy on car registration for example. Sports cars have a higher levy than economy cars and motorcycles are very expensive. LIke 1000 a year for big bikes. Roofers pay a lot more than accountants. Acc also sets rules for safety which can be something of a nanny thing. Roofers have to use scaffolding and safety harnesses, not ladders for example. Insurance is cheap and not required for most things including your car. Nice of you want to open a kitesurfing school.
16   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 May 23, 7:33am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Don't believe for a second the America is the best health care bullshit. The doctors/hospitals use the same procedures, equipment, training, etc, etc. etc. all around the world. The only advantage to the US is if you need some super specilized cutting edge or experimental procedure because there are more research programs here.

Health care is very good. There aren't death panels or years long wating lists despite the propoganda from people with a huge financial interest in perpetrating the US medical system. NZ is a very good example of the Beveridge Model. Primary care is by capitation, specialists are health board employees. Which means there is no built in conflct of interest of fee for service. There is no huge expensive Infrastructure needed for billing either. You go into a doctors office and the staff is a receptionist and nurse. There isn't a backroom full of billing people eating up 25% of the money. There isn't a front end of insurance companies collecting the money to pay for health care while eating up huge amounts of money in adminstration/profits/lobbying/marketing/etc. yet providing zero patient care. DHB budgets come from the general revenue so there is zero cost of collecting it.

Hospitals aren't businesses that need to market themselves (or lobby, advertise, pay profit,etc.). So there is no need to buy the latest expensive toys or staff some specilized expensive unit to be able to advertise they are keeping up with the hospital down the street. Which leads to both hospitals with underutilized and money losing bragging rights. Expensive things are done on a regional basis calculated by need. Invasive cardiology is in Hamilton for example. When I needed a cardiac mapping and ablation for a heart arrhythmia that was getting worse I needed to travel. The dhb provided airline tickets, accomidations, meals, and even airport parking. I had to wait a couple months, but since I had arrhythmia for 40 years already it wasn't a problem. Waiting for non urget procedures isn't unusual in the US either. If you really need something you get it.

Paper work is zero. You pay your gp a office fee and that's it. Go to the hospital, give your name and that's it.

Doctors are a lot less aggressive with end of life care. They really try to balance quality of life with health care. They won't do advanced procedures on someone terminal. Hospice is common. It's a societal thing also. There isn't the save granny no matter what mind set you see in the US.

There is private health insurance if you don't want to use the public system. It's not terribly expensive either since it's backstopped by the public system. Which brings us to the myth that US doctors are the most highly paid. They are if you compare US salaries with the public system salaries in other countries. But the same doctors work public and private. The numbers coming up in the surveys are only the public and usually doesn't even include the call allowence. What doctors earn in their private practice isn't available. I worked for 5 years as a liason for an international medical recruiter in NZ/Australia. I personally knew (as in went sailing/surfing/out to dinner) Australian ob/s and surgeons knocking down 750k+ between public and private. Even if you only look at public, American doctors work twice as many hours with 1/3 or less of the paid vacation time. Or 15k for cme vs 2k. or 1 year paid sabbatical after 20 years. Big differences.

Enough, going out to the gym. Maybe do some more tommorrow or later in the week.
17   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 May 23, 11:10am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
Read again. They understand the value fine and feed themselves just fine locally.


I'm talking about CSA's, direct to consumer sales by local farms. Doesn't sound like that happens enough.
18   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 May 23, 11:22am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
Take expat sites with a big grain of salt.


Actually, the ones I read seemed pretty balanced. Most people had the outlook that "We can't afford to be materialistic here, but who cares when there's so much to do outside!". I don't know how much longer I'll be in the US, but hoping to make the move before I'm 45.
19   Ceffer   ignore (1)   2018 May 23, 11:40am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

There's nothing wrong with NZ that two million lethargic, non-working, rat reproducing thugs and slugs sucking the welfare tit and 500,000 lawyers can't cure.

EXPORT AMERICA TO NZ! NOBODY DESERVES TO BE THAT FREE!
20   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 May 23, 12:39pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

NuttBoxer says
bob2356 says
Read again. They understand the value fine and feed themselves just fine locally.


I'm talking about CSA's, direct to consumer sales by local farms. Doesn't sound like that happens enough.


Nah, no CSA's. More in the order of farm stands. You have to realize most places aren't conducive to growing truck crops. There is very little flat ariable well watered land. NZ is mostly big hills or mountains, a most of it somewhat to very dry scrub grass land. Ideal for sheep, pretty good for wine grapes in places, not good for vegies. These are really young mountains still growing. Steep and very prone to slides. Also earthquakes, lots of earthquakes.

The northwest of the north island Auckland to New Plymouth over to Taupo and Rotorua is really the only suitable place for most veggies. Even then a lot of that is too steep. Most of the south island is too dry, pretty much semi arid rain shadowed by the mountains. . Think eastern Oregon to as dry as Nevada in places. The tiny strip west of the southern alps is simply rain forest. The east and south of the north island is pretty dry also. Onions and carrots will grow around Christchurch and Hawkes bay. Some grain right around Christchurch, but not much. Northland across Bay of Plenty down to Poverty Bay (basically the strip along the top of the north island) grows citrus but not much veggies.

So it's not like there are truck farms everywhere that just needs to get their stuff out to the people. It's driven by geography.
21   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 May 23, 12:43pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

NuttBoxer says
. I don't know how much longer I'll be in the US, but hoping to make the move before I'm 45.


Sooner the better if you are serious. Age really counts against you in the residence visa lottery. Residence in Australia is easier.

I'm hoping to finish up here and be back next year. or the south of france, my second favorite place.
22   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 May 26, 5:31am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Strategist says
If anything, it tells me America is the best place to live in, simply because you can choose the lifestyle you want as long as you are able and willing to move.
The New Zealand lifestyle seems to resemble Hawaii, only better.

You did not mention safety, health care, social programs, and taxes. Would like your input.


Down time waiting fo everyone to wake up so I'll post some more.

Choose the lifestyle you want? Very odd thought. You can move somewhere in America that doesn't have non stop strip malls, mcrestaurants, mcstores, mcfastfood, mcsuburbs. Some place that doesn't have no guns no knives on every door (to be fair NZ has signs that say no sheep shit). Where you don't go through metal detectors and bags searches for most public buildings, sports venues, public events. NZ doesn't even have airport security and they fly with the cockpit doors open. Where there isn't 24/7/365 political noise. Elections in a parliamentary countries last a couple weeks and you barely know they went on. Where you don't have the nuts on the left and the right all around all the time ready to pounce with their bullshit. Where the cops can't just grab your stuff because they don't like the way you look or they need to top up the budget.

I don't think so. I can think of a number of lifestyles around the world that can't be done in the US. If you like the consumerism and political noise then god bless, the US is the best place on earth for it by far. It's all pervasive.
23   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 May 29, 11:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Shut up Bob! There's too many people moving to NZ already. I want some wide open spaces when I get there.
24   Ceffer   ignore (1)   2018 May 29, 12:18pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Yeah, but the Eye of Sauron is always frying your woolens.
25   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 May 29, 1:50pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

NuttBoxer says
Shut up Bob! There's too many people moving to NZ already. I want some wide open spaces when I get there.


Only 1750 resident visa's a year. Then after 2 years you have to qualify for permanent resident visa if you want to stay long term, which is a lot harder and there are a lot less of.

Not a problem with getting overcrowded for a long long time
.




The Housing Trap
You're being set up to spend your life paying off a debt you don't need to take on, for a house that costs far more than it should. The conspirators are all around you, smiling to lure you in, carefully choosing their words and watching your reactions as they push your buttons, anxiously waiting for the moment when you sign the papers that will trap you and guarantee their payoff. Don't be just another victim of the housing market. Use this book to defend your freedom and defeat their schemes. You can win the game, but first you have to learn how to play it.
115 pages, $12.50

Kindle version available


about   best comments   contact   one year ago   suggestions