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What am I missing? N.Korea etc...

By joshuatrio following x   2018 Jun 12, 2:06pm 1,115 views   108 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


I read the comment section on various articles about Trump/N.Korea blah blah...

All the liberals/SJW's are melting down about how Trump gave everything to China/Russia. Am I missing something here?

From my understanding, the only thing Trump agreed to was stopping the twice a year joint exercises that can be restarted at a moments notice. Doesn't seem like much of a concession, AND North Korea halted nuclear and missile testing, gave us our hostages, and verbally agreed to denuclearize. While there is a massive way to go still and an official treaty still needs to be done with verifiable checks - how is this a loss? Why are all the libbies claiming Trump gave it all to China/Russia and all this other conspiracy theory bullshit?

In my opinion, this is a great step towards peace, and aversion to nuclear war.

WTF???

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41   Aphroman   ignore (3)   2018 Jun 12, 7:53pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Patrick says
marcus says
He also said he would pull our 28K military personal out of SK.


Woah, that's excellent if true. At least a billion dollars in savings.

Another win.


I thought one of Trumps great accomplishments was ramping up military spending, bigly?

For what?

Which is it?

Or is everything always a win for Trump? Or does it only work that way for the Trump Dick Suckers?
42   marcus   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 12, 8:01pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

joshuatrio says
What am I missing? N.Korea etc...


What are we getting ?

My guess is yes, peace. The same peace we've had with NK for many decades. The same game we've played with NK for decades (except now they have nukes). I guess now we drop sanctions and turn on the money spigots ? ALthough NK gets that from China too. Is NK going to stop being a puppet of China ? Doubtful. Are they going to get us to decrease our military presence in that part of the world ? I don't know. Maybe.

Is not testing your misslies and nukes now that you know they work, denuclearizing ? I don't know. I don't think so.

I'm basically a conservative on the issue of NK. I don't want war, but as far as I could tell, the only reason we've been worried about war with NK was provocation by Trump in response to Kim's provocative tests.

Does Kim look like a big winner here, who basically got everything he wanted out of this ? I think so, yes.
44   Sniper   ignore (11)   2018 Jun 12, 8:29pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Feux Follets says
Potus legitimized Kim on the world stage, something that will have far reaching and unintended consequences.


He certainly did..

Did you see when NK nuked Guam, like they threaten Trump that they were going to do?

Oh, wait.... Guam is still here...

Looks like Trump made Kim blink..

Next target Guam, North Korea says
Guam has long been a focal point of North Korea's anger against the US and is often a target of North Korean saber-rattling. It was threatened specifically by North Korea in 2013 and again earlier this month, following a fiery exchange of threats and insults between Trump and the North Korean regime.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/29/asia/north-korea-missile-launch-guam-threat/index.html

It was threatened specifically by North Korea in 2013 and again earlier this month, following a fiery exchange of threats and insults between Trump and the North Korean regime.
45   Sniper   ignore (11)   2018 Jun 12, 8:34pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

marcus says
This is what relatively neutral people are saying.


Tt months of negotiations produced so little.”

<...


marcus says
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/12/world/asia/north-korea-summit.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news


Hmmmm, when did NYT become "relatively neutral"?

Did Hell freeze over?
46   marcus   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 12, 8:44pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Another very reality based analysis. It includes the positives.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/12/world/asia/trump-kim-meeting-interpreter.html
47   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (30)   2018 Jun 12, 9:37pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

If TRUMPCUNT! weren't an effeminate pretender, he'd have torn out KIMFUCK!'s eyes with an icepick and skull fucked him into a coma, like a normal guy.

FAIL!
48   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Jun 12, 10:06pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy says
The fact that these meeting even happened is a slap in the face to China. They were counting on using the North Korean issue as leverage in keeping their unfair trade practices.


Good point. I wonder if that was a big part of The Donald's motive. If so, yet another level of winning. Let's count the wins:

1. North Korea agrees to de-nuclearize
2. We pull out 28,000 troops from Korea, saving at least $1B/year and doing the right thing.
3. China has less to power to keep us buying 5x more from them than they do from us.
49   Feux Follets   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 13, 2:41am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy says
They were counting on using the North Korean issue as leverage in keeping their unfair trade practices.


They don't need Kim to do that.
50   Feux Follets   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 13, 3:14am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Sniper says
Looks like Trump made Kim blink..


North Korea is not a threat to Guam regardless of what nonsense Kim talks, China is.

Believe we had this exchange a few weeks ago.

Patrick says
We pull out 28,000 troops from Korea, saving at least $1B/year and doing the right thing.


Maybe getting out of the MIddle East and Afghanistan first. Then not caving into the NeoCon war machine next.

The troops need to stay in South Korea for the foreseeable future.
51   Feux Follets   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 13, 3:17am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Sniper says
threats and insults between Trump and the North Korean regime.


Diplomacy at it's finest. Threats and Insults.

What time are milk and cookies served ? Is this followed by nap time ?
52   Feux Follets   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 13, 3:18am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Trump Touts Success Of Singapore Summit After Securing $10 Billion Trade Deal To Sell Nuclear Warheads To North Korea !

Saying the agreement represents a major high point in American international relations, President Trump concluded his summit with Kim Jong-un Monday by securing a $10 billion trade deal to sell both strategic and tactical nuclear warheads directly to North Korea.

“There was some negotiating involved in getting [Jong-un] to buy as many nukes as we wanted to sell, but by cutting the price, we came out with a deal that’s profitable for America and therefore good for the world,” said Trump of the pact, which requires the United States to provide the East Asian authoritarian state with 50 thermonuclear fusion weapons over the next five years.

“We’re taking this $10 billion and investing it right back into our economy, our arms industry, and especially our great military, because now more than ever we’re going to need them to help train, supply, and reinforce North Korean troops.”

At press time, Trump had threatened to pull out of the deal in a series of invective-laced tweets accusing Kim Jong-un of attempting to acquire $10 billion worth of nuclear weapons.

https://politics.theonion.com/trump-touts-success-of-singapore-summit-after-securing-1826742733
53   bob2356   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 13, 4:03am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Patrick says
If so, yet another level of winning. Let's count the wins:

1. North Korea agrees to de-nuclearize
2. We pull out 28,000 troops from Korea, saving at least $1B/year and doing the right thing.
3. China has less to power to keep us buying 5x more from them than they do from us.


and the yankees have won the world series already since they say they will. winning. Oh wait, They have to play the season, playoffs, and world series first. Bugger.
54   Tim Aurora   ignore (0)   2018 Jun 13, 4:32am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

joshuatrio says
In my opinion, this is a great step towards peace, and aversion to nuclear war.


I thought you meant the Iran Deal. Correct ?
55   Tim Aurora   ignore (0)   2018 Jun 13, 4:36am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Patrick says
1. North Korea agrees to de-nuclearize
2. We pull out 28,000 troops from Korea, saving at least $1B/year and doing the right thing.
3. China has less to power to keep us buying 5x more from them than they do from us.


Demilitarization : You mean Iran Deal. Right ? North Korea deal has no specifics.

Pulling out troops and save $1B: I say we bring our military budget to $100B and save the rest $438 billion.

China trade deficit: I do not know what the fuck that means and where that came from.
56   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (30)   2018 Jun 13, 4:39am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Again, Trump proves he is a cowardly pretender cunt.

A PRECEDENT! with the tools and the will would have pulled an M134 out of his ASSHOLE! the moment he was alone with KIMFUCK! and his entourage and shredded the entire NoKo executive echelon and declared elections with himself and IVANKA! as candidates.

Then, as interim MAN!-GOD! OF! ALL! TIMES!, he would have ordered a month of FUCKING! IN! THE! STREET!s in the run-up to the first NoKo elections and proposed a referendum on the ballot to send out to SoKo for pizza.
57   socal2   ignore (0)   2018 Jun 13, 5:09am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Patrick says
America did not totally squash Germany after WWII, and also left the emperor in nominal charge of Japan, and those worked out well.

GW Bush was both an asshole and a moron and completely destroyed the Iraqi power structure and murdered Saddam, who had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. We are still suffering the consequences. Bush should be in jail.


Oh come on Patrick! We firebombed numerous Japanese cities killing hundreds of thousands and escalated to using nukes. Germany was completely rubbled and cut in half between the West and the USSR. We had war crime trials and executed many senior leaders in Germany and Japan. Compared to Germany and Japan, we went in with a scalpel in Iraq not inflicting a fraction of the destruction (most of the destruction was done by the insurgency after).

Most importantly - we occupied both of these countries for decades, wrote new Constitutions and still have troops there 70+ years later.

If anyone should be in jail, it should be Obama for abandoning Iraq to ISIS and chaos after less than 10 years.
58   BlueSardine   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 13, 5:33am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Bottom line: this.
Hassan_Rouhani says
I just don't trust the fucking commie fucks. Unless these regimes are completely dismantled they will continue playing fucking games. One look at the Russian fucks is all proof you'll ever need.
59   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (30)   2018 Jun 13, 5:36am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

socal2 says
Oh come on Patrick! We firebombed numerous Japanese cities killing hundreds of thousands and escalated to using nukes.


Right. Curtis LeMay sent chocolates and everyone got mad at him and made stuff up.
60   BlueSardine   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 13, 5:38am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

when you have two professional liars negotiating, a concession is not a concession until it is actually implemented...
I put the odds of the 28k withdrawal about 500-1...

marcus says
He also said he would pull our 28K military personal out of SK.

I'm not judging it bad, but to deny it's a big concession ?
61   BlueSardine   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 13, 5:41am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Never happen until NK truly denuclearizes.
Anything said otherwise is just smoke...

Patrick says
marcus says
He also said he would pull our 28K military personal out of SK.


Woah, that's excellent if true. At least a billion dollars in savings.

Another win.
62   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (30)   2018 Jun 13, 5:43am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

If Trump wasn't a pretender cunt, he'd have Ivanka on TV demanding Kimfuck's surrender every day, taunting the 'fat dog cunt' about his weight and the size of his dick. Barron would weigh in regularly on these spots squealing, 'Mommee! He calls that a dick?! Hehehehehe!'
63   BlueSardine   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 13, 5:43am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Certainly not like the olden days...
marcus says
Isn't it great being an American ?
64   BlueSardine   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 13, 5:47am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

This is the work of a master negotiator operating in the 17th dimension...libbies will never comprehend no matter how many art degrees they accumulate...

TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy says
The fact that these meeting even happened is a slap in the face to China. They were counting on using the North Korean issue as leverage in keeping their unfair trade practices.
65   CL   ignore (0)   2018 Jun 13, 5:52am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

How would you imagine we’d be SAVING money? We don’t fire the soldiers and they’ll still be needed, just in case NK isn’t trustworthy.

The move would actually cost more in the shorter run and you’d have to trust congress and the pentagon longer term.
66   BlueSardine   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 13, 5:55am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Level 14 in play here. Pre-negotiation make it look to kim like trump can be his friend, as he disses kims enemies.

ThreeBays says
Is it leftist/SJW to point out how un-American Trump acted by giving the finger to western allies and then laying praise on a commie dictator war criminal?
67   HeadSet   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 13, 7:32am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

CL says
How would you imagine we’d be SAVING money? We don’t fire the soldiers and they’ll still be needed, just in case NK isn’t trustworthy.

The move would actually cost more in the shorter run and you’d have to trust congress and the pentagon longer term.


Because the troops based in the US will be spending their money at home, helping local economies instead of overseas areas. Also, no rent or other payments to foreign governments for the permission to keep bases and related facilities.
68   ThreeBays   ignore (0)   2018 Jun 13, 7:35am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Poor Trump must admire Kim's freedom. All the billions and POTUS power and it's still not OK for him to attach dissenters to anti-aircraft guns and blow them to smitherines. So unfair, and the Constitution is so dishonest.
69   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Jun 13, 8:03am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

socal2 says
Oh come on Patrick! We firebombed numerous Japanese cities killing hundreds of thousands and escalated to using nukes. Germany was completely rubbled and cut in half between the West and the USSR.


That was the war.

After the war, both Germany and Japan were treated very well and rebuilt.

Iraq, not.
70   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Jun 13, 8:16am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Patrick says
After the war, both Germany and Japan were treated very well and rebuilt.

Iraq, not.


It’s tough to rebuild when the people of the region keep maliciously blowing up anything you build for them. Fucking Islam.

Not that it mattered. The rebuilding process was intended to benefit one constituency: the corporations which donated to W’s campaign. Remember Halliburton? Hundreds of billions in contracts in exchange for millions on the campaign trail. That’s how democracies do coalition politics!
71   TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 13, 10:55am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Feux Follets says
They don't need Kim to do that.


Sorry, when you depend on hundreds of billions in exports to keep your economy going, and have no welfare system, you depend on the client, not the other way around.

Somehow people think that we didn't make most of this shit ourselves, which we did going into the 1990s.

Kind of like banking: You owe the bank some money, you have a problem. When you owe the bank a lot of money, the bank has a problem.
72   TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 13, 10:57am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Tim Aurora says
Demilitarization : You mean Iran Deal. Right ? North Korea deal has no specifics.


This is the negotiation phase. BUT, unlike the Iran deal, DPRK halted all nuke and ballistic testing and released hostages prior to the negotiations.

Iran didn't give up jack shit to get the Iran Deal negotiations going.
73   TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 13, 11:03am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Where is Obama, Bill Clinton, Baby Bush & Jimmy Carter?

They are pretty quiet! Maybe they haven’t heard the news about North Korea yet!

Somebody send this video to them pic.twitter.com/q3BuK3Q0gX

— Terrence K. Williams (@w_terrence) June 13, 2018

74   RafiMaas   ignore (0)   2018 Jun 13, 11:06am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy says
Sorry, when you depend on hundreds of billions in exports to keep your economy going, and have no welfare system, you depend on the client, not the other way around.


Does the US not depend on Chinese buying billions in debt? China holds north of $1,170,000,000 of US debt. Correct me if I'm wrong. Who's the client? Who's got us by the balls, China that's who.
75   TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 13, 12:14pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

RafiMaas says
Does the US not depend on Chinese buying billions in debt? China holds north of $1,170,000,000 of US debt. Correct me if I'm wrong. Who's the client? Who's got us by the balls, China that's who.



Nope, we do not depend on the Chinese buying our debt. US Government Debt is one of the most desirable financial assets in the World and more than two thirds of long term Treasuries are held domestically.

Debt is only a problem when you are approaching default and have few options. Currently the dollar is very strong and US Treasuries are in high demand.The rest of the world owns 5x the long-term Treasuries as China, and the domestic market is many, many times China's holdings. The Federal Reserve alone has 2x the holdings of all of China in US Treasuries.



China buys US debt primarily to control the valuation of the Yuan, and to a lesser extent because of the Trade Deficit, and their unwillingness to buy American products in return leaves them with few options other than to buy Treasuries. In 2011, China dumped $200B in US Treasuries over a few days and suddenly, nothing happened - to the US Economy. China now owns less debt that it did.

Thanks to Bretton Wood, almost all world currencies are pegged to the US Dollar and buying US Treasuries is the best mechanism to stabilize and legitimize a foreign currency.

When China shifts from buying US Debt, it will only be because they are buying or investing American, or a desperate attempt to send the Yuan into free fall which would have MASSIVE Chinese Domestic consequences. Keep in mind Chinese are huge savers, all cash or real estate, and a devalued, non-dollar pegged Yuan would cause immense domestic hardship and rage. There's no welfare state in China to soften the blow, either.
76   RafiMaas   ignore (0)   2018 Jun 13, 12:41pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy says
China now owns less debt that it did.


What kind of statement is this? $100 billion less than there all time high .... BFD

TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy says
The rest of the world owns 5x the long-term Treasuries as China,


Wrong again. A little over 4x but who's counting... apparently me.

As of March 2018 China $1.19 T. Whole world $6.29 T
6.29-1.19= 5.1/1.19= 4.28x DNE 5x
77   TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 13, 12:45pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

RafiMaas says
What kind of statement is this? $100 billion less than there all time high .... BFD


They sold ~$200B in one swoop in 2011 and suddenly, nothing happened to the US Economy.

RafiMaas says

Wrong again. A little over 4x but who's counting... apparently me.

As of March 2018 China $1.19 T. Whole world $6.29 T
6.29-1.19= 5.1/1.19= 4.28x DNE 5x


Over 4x to 5x, not a big deal and minimal compared to domestic holdings in any case. Japan holds about as much, also. It's necessary for the world since the USD is the underpinning of the Global financial system with no immediate rival. There are multi-decade contracts for trillions upon trillions for everything from Oil/Gas to Corporate Bonds to Long Term Commodity Contracts that are USD denominated. If China dumps US Teasuries - which because of the varying maturity is more likely to hurt them really bad - others will benefit. And hundreds of millions of Chinese who save 25% of their income in cash and real estate will scream bloody murder as a huge chunk of their lifetime of savings is obliterated overnight - and blame their own Government.

BTW, if China does this, a proportionate tariff to at compensate for the lost value of the Yuan will beat the shit out of China, that would be rocked by massive unemployment and savings destruction on top of that. That'll teach 'em, while creating tons of new domestic jobs.
78   RafiMaas   ignore (0)   2018 Jun 13, 1:02pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy says
The rest of the world still owns far more
but nobody holds as much as China. What if the rest of the world sides with China? Trump really has only one (or does he have two now) true friend in the rest of the world, Putin.

How much debt is Russia holding?
79   Hassan_Rouhani   ignore (2)   2018 Jun 13, 2:22pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

RafiMaas says
What if the rest of the world sides with China?


Sides to do what? To what end? Over what spat? What kind of fantasy it this anyway?
80   TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 13, 2:37pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

RafiMaas says
but nobody holds as much as China. What if the rest of the world sides with China? Trump really has only one (or does he have two now) true friend in the rest of the world, Putin.


Japan holds almost as much. I believe the difference between China and Japan is a few tenths of a percent.

RafiMaas says
How much debt is Russia holding?


Miniscule, relative to either China or Japan, and certainly relative to the overall ownership rate. Be surprised if it was more than 1% at the very best.

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