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"If you want to persuade, appeal to interest not to reason"

By Patrick following x   2018 Jul 29, 9:57am 1,034 views   65 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


Supposedly said by Benjamin Franklin, and very true.

Most political argument is mere rationalization for holding positions in one's own perceived self-interest. The rationalizations can get so convoluted and unlikely as to be comical, but plain reason and logic will never persuade. What is needed is to find a common interest you can both get behind.

The globalists who were happily outsourcing jobs to China and importing illegals from Mexico will never forgive Trump for messing with their profits. They will come up with endless rationalizations for their hatred of Trump, from Stormy Daniels to Trump's brief continuation of Obama's policy of separating illegals from their children. There is nothing you can say to change their minds, simply because their profits come above all other considerations, a fact that they can never say in public. In their desperation, they use the media to sow division in the public along every fault line they can find, including race, gender, and religion. They are utterly terrified that the public will unify behind Trump's America-first policies. They do not want unity! They want division, "diversity", and distraction from how they have been harming the country for their own benefit.

So let's give up on them and talk about the rest of America, and our common interests.

Trump has been very good for the US economy. We are all obviously benefitting from the rapid increase in jobs and in the stock market. So a calm offhand mention of how well the economy is doing is probably going to be far more effective at healing division in the country than any overt defense of Trump.

North Korea was a real threat to the US with its nuclear program. So again, a mention of how that tension has just melted away and how it feels safer now could also help with unity. No need to mention Trump at all.

And of course around tax time it might be good to ask people how much their taxes went down.

If you're looking for more ways for the country to heal and unify, poke through this list for some of the great things happening lately and just point them out without mentioning Trump at all: http://www.magapill.com/

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26   Aphroman   ignore (7)   2018 Jul 31, 8:23am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

@patrick i tried to log in from my laptop to post some actual data rather than the nonsense from that magapill site, but you won’t let me log in that way

I was going to post the FRED chart of GDP over the last ten years, if anyone appreciates the truth and honesty, go ahead and post the chart. I cannot do it from my mobile device
27   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 31, 8:28am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Aphroman says

Can you show the data that supports the claims of Trumps accomplishments?


What...your browser is missing the Google? Anyone can find the answer to a question with minimal effort these days. What’s more valuable is the question itself.
To which you’ll go, “Wut? Lol”
28   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 31, 8:34am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Quigley says

What...your browser is missing the Google? Anyone can find the answer to question with minimal effort these days. What’s more valuable is the question itself.
To which you’ll go, “Wut? Lol”


lol--the last resort of a poster that cannot defend his posts. "Go google it yourself"
29   Aphroman   ignore (7)   2018 Jul 31, 8:40am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Quigley says
Aphroman says

Can you show the data that supports the claims of Trumps accomplishments?


What...your browser is missing the Google? Anyone can find the answer to a question with minimal effort these days. What’s more valuable is the question itself.
To which you’ll go, “Wut? Lol”



I was going to post the FRED chart of GDP over the last ten years, if anyone appreciates the truth and honesty, go ahead and post the chart. I cannot do it from my mobile device


I dare you to post any actual data over the 2008-2018 timeframe. I know that there’s good reason why Chumpublicans avoid it like the plague
30   Aphroman   ignore (7)   2018 Jul 31, 8:42am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

If you want to persuade reasonable people, all you need is data.

GDP over the last 10y FRED chart shows that the Obama trend line is still intact. Which is why you won’t see the #TDS people use any data.

At this point they’re openly admitting the desire to abandon reason for feelz. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?
31   HEYYOU   ignore (16)   2018 Jul 31, 8:47am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

If one has to appeal to one's interest rather than reason, it's time to find someone else to talk with.
Lack of critical thinking is not a virtue.
32   BlueSardine   ignore (2)   2018 Jul 31, 8:48am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I can log in from all devices.
It's not the website. sounds like device/operator error.

Aphroman says
@patrick i tried to log in from my laptop to post some actual data rather than the nonsense from that magapill site, but you won’t let me log in that way
33   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Jul 31, 8:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

LeonDurham says
lol--the last resort of a poster that cannot defend his posts. "Go google it yourself"


LOL-- Liberals, want everyone else to do their work and research.
34   BlueSardine   ignore (2)   2018 Jul 31, 8:50am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Literally took 7 seconds.
but then, I have 100mbps fiber...

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/media-blackout-trumps-60-point-accomplishment-list-of-american-greatness

LeonDurham says
Quigley says

What...your browser is missing the Google? Anyone can find the answer to question with minimal effort these days. What’s more valuable is the question itself.
To which you’ll go, “Wut? Lol”


lol--the last resort of a poster that cannot defend his posts. "Go google it yourself"
35   Aphroman   ignore (7)   2018 Jul 31, 8:50am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

BlueSardine says
I can log in from all devices.
It's not the website. sounds like device/operator error.

Aphroman says
@patrick i tried to log in from my laptop to post some actual data rather than the nonsense from that magapill site, but you won’t let me log in that way


Right on except i dont know my password, so i click on forgot password and it just takes me back to the homepage.
36   Aphroman   ignore (7)   2018 Jul 31, 8:50am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

MrMagic says
LeonDurham says
lol--the last resort of a poster that cannot defend his posts. "Go google it yourself"


LOL-- Liberals, want everyone else to do their work and research.


GDP over the last 10y FRED chart shows that the Obama trend line is still intact. Which is why you won’t see the #TDS people use any data.
37   BlueSardine   ignore (2)   2018 Jul 31, 8:52am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

These online battles are more about having your opposition scurry around looking up shit, rather than the actual issue.
best way to handle this is to spend 4 seconds coming up with this
https://www.google.com/search?q=Trumps+accomplishments&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS699US699&oq=Trumps+accomplishments&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

then make them go through the gyrations...

MrMagic says
LOL-- Liberals, want everyone else to do their work and research.
39   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 31, 9:00am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Aphroman says
nonsense from that magapill site


Why do you say that site is "nonsense"? Looks quite sensible to me. Tons of facts and links.
40   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 31, 9:05am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Aphroman says
Right on except i dont know my password, so i click on forgot password and it just takes me back to the homepage.


@Aphroman thanks for telling me. "forgot password" works on all the devices I have, but it uses javascript so I could believe that it might not work for you.

Do you see any javascript errors in the browser developer tools console? If you don't know what I mean, don't worry about it.

I'll make a note to make "reset password" be just a normal html page.
41   Aphroman   ignore (7)   2018 Jul 31, 9:14am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Patrick says
Aphroman says
nonsense from that magapill site


Why do you say that site is "nonsense"? Looks quite sensible to me. Tons of facts and links.


Because it’s hyper partisan and obviously purely biased.

As a reasonable person, all i need to be swayed is data.

I’d post the FRED charts but i can’t from my phone

Labor force participation rate
GDP
Unemployment (by race)

I know what they show, and i know that is why people who have abandoned reason for blind support of Trump avoid them like the plague
42   Aphroman   ignore (7)   2018 Jul 31, 9:23am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

So let's give up on them and talk about the rest of America, and our common interests.

@Patrick the one issue that most Americans agree on is ending the War on Drugs, specifically Cannabis Prohibition. If we give pause to the abandonment of reason, and use the brains God gave us, we’d all agree that the Republicans in power (Trump on top) are acting against the Constitution and the interest of the People. So the logical response is to vote against Republicans, no?
43   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Jul 31, 9:41am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Aphroman says
Because it’s hyper partisan and obviously purely biased.

As a reasonable person, all i need to be swayed is data.

I’d post the FRED charts but i can’t from my phone

Labor force participation rate, GDP


OK, since you like data, how's this for the LFPR and GDP?


-


Yes, it's all about the data and the truth.

You're Welcome!
44   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 31, 10:30am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Patrick says

Why do you say that site is "nonsense"? Looks quite sensible to me. Tons of facts and links.


He’s looking for “alternative facts.”
45   Aphroman   ignore (7)   2018 Jul 31, 11:05am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Quigley says
Patrick says

Why do you say that site is "nonsense"? Looks quite sensible to me. Tons of facts and links.


He’s looking for “alternative facts.”


How do you figure?

If actual data is “alternative facts” in your book, what are real facts?

Is FRED data inaccurate?
46   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Jul 31, 11:11am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Aphroman says
If actual data is “alternative facts” in your book, what are real facts?

Is FRED data inaccurate?


Someone quote my two charts I posted. He doesn't see them because he has me on ignore.
47   Aphroman   ignore (7)   2018 Jul 31, 11:22am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

MrMagic says
Aphroman says
If actual data is “alternative facts” in your book, what are real facts?

Is FRED data inaccurate?


Someone quote my two charts I posted. He doesn't see them because he has me on ignore.


I see them

Stop lying

I don’t have anyone on ignore
48   Aphroman   ignore (7)   2018 Jul 31, 11:31am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

MrMagic says
Aphroman says
If actual data is “alternative facts” in your book, what are real facts?

Is FRED data inaccurate?


Someone quote my two charts I posted. He doesn't see them because he has me on ignore.


See, percentages don't tell the true facts, but they SOUND good.

I love when Liberals use percentages to make a point:

Game
Set
Match
49   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Jul 31, 11:33am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Aphroman says
Is FRED data inaccurate?


Answer that question after reviewing those two charts.
50   Aphroman   ignore (7)   2018 Jul 31, 11:44am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

MrMagic says
Aphroman says
Is FRED data inaccurate?


Answer that question after reviewing those two charts.


See, percentages don't tell the true facts, but they SOUND good.

I love when Liberals use percentages to make a point:
51   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Jul 31, 11:47am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Aphroman says
MrMagic says
Aphroman says
Is FRED data inaccurate?


Answer that question after reviewing those two charts.


See, percentages don't tell the true facts, but they SOUND good.

I love when Liberals use percentages to make a point:


CHECKMATE!!!!!!

Close Thread.
52   Aphroman   ignore (7)   2018 Jul 31, 12:14pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

The #TDS is rampant do they even care that Daddy doesn’t use condoms with the skanks?
55   CBOEtrader   ignore (2)   2018 Aug 1, 7:20am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Aphroman says
The #TDS is rampant do they even care that Daddy doesn’t use condoms with the skanks?


Nope. Neither should you care (but you should wear condoms and lay off the skanks, kids)
56   Aphroman   ignore (7)   2018 Aug 1, 7:26am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

The chart in post #53 is GDP over the last 10 years

The chart in post #54 is Black Unemployment over the last 10 years


I look at those and see that the trend line that started with Obama's presidency is still intact, which is why Reasonable People such as myself find it very odd that all of a sudden, certain people want to give Trump credit for the same thing that happened throughout Obama's presidency, and the same people claimed that Obama was destroying the economy.

Which is why i ask, are these people simply ignorant or are they just being disingenuous.

Now i do remember @Patrick voted for Obama in both elections, and I'm pretty certain that he had always said that Obama was doing a good job, during his presidency. Not sure if he has changed his tune, however the people who claimed Obama was ruining the economy and that Trump is the Great Savior seem to be confused, or are simply dishonest.
57   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 1, 7:35am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Aphroman says
I look at those and see that the trend line that started with Obama's presidency is still intact,


This is correct. At the point in time it’s hard to see much difference between Obama’s reign and Trump’s Presidency on those trends. The most accurate thing to say would be that Trump’s policies continue to boost the economy and improve GDP while lowering unemployment. It will be a few years before we can truly analyze the economic effects of Trump. All we can tell right now is that the economy is improving.

You can’t analyze results that haven’t yet happened!
58   Aphroman   ignore (7)   2018 Aug 1, 7:46am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Quigley says
Aphroman says
I look at those and see that the trend line that started with Obama's presidency is still intact,


This is correct. At the point in time it’s hard to see much difference between Obama’s reign and Trump’s Presidency on those trends. The most accurate thing to say would be that Trump’s policies continue to boost the economy and improve GDP while lowering unemployment. It will be a few years before we can truly analyze the economic effects of Trump. All we can tell right now is that the economy is improving.

You can’t analyze results that haven’t yet happened!


No doubt. I was just speaking to the fact that Trump takes credit for Obama's work, and his supporters claim that Obama destroyed the economy and that Trump saved it.

One of the most obvious bullshit claims is that Trump is responsible for Black Unemployment being so low, especially in the context that Obama was terrible on jobs and the economy. I'm simply wondering are Trump and his supporters dishonest/disingenuous, or simply ignorant?
59   Automan Empire   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 1, 2:14pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

MrMagic says

Good thing Trump was able to turn that trend line around with NO QE, NO ZIRP and NO stimulus


Trump didn't begin his term in the midst of the worst recession since the Great Depression either. Like much else in his life, Trump got to start on third and is strutting like he hit a home run.
60   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Aug 1, 2:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Automan Empire says
MrMagic says

Good thing Trump was able to turn that trend line around with NO QE, NO ZIRP and NO stimulus


Trump didn't begin his term in the midst of the worst recession since the Great Depression either. Like much else in his life, Trump got to start on third and is strutting like he hit a home run.


So, why did many of Obama's metrics tail off the last two years of his Presidency? What did he need, a few more DECADES to turn it around?

Here's another hint, the recession hit two years AFTER the Democrats took the majority in Congress in 2006.

Aren't facts amazing..
61   TrumpingTits   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 1, 8:13pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Which why the Libtards and their 'blue wave' are going DOWN: They are doing the exact opposite when they piss all over those whom they know they need votes from.

Bat
Shit
Crazy
62   CBOEtrader   ignore (2)   2018 Aug 1, 8:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Aphroman says
and his supporters claim that Obama destroyed the economy


quote?
63   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Aug 1, 8:36pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Aphroman says


Nice chart, check this one out too, amazing what adding another $10 Trillion of debt can do to help GDP:




Oh, also forgot this one, just another $4 Trillion of printed money. Heck of a trend line. Check out the hook down right at the end? What's going on there, Trump is hurting Obama's trend.



Aphroman says
and his supporters claim that Obama destroyed the economy and that Trump saved it.


Yep, that's exactly what Trump is doing now.

Speaking of destroyed, how's your 401K and IRA doing the past year and a half. Good thing Trump's not following Obama's trend line on that one either...



Aphroman says
I look at those and see that the trend line that started with Obama's presidency is still intact, which is why Reasonable People such as myself find it very odd that all of a sudden, certain people want to give Trump credit for the same thing that happened throughout Obama's presidency, and the same people claimed that Obama was destroying the economy.


Remember, FRED charts don't lie. It's always important to tell the truth.
64   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 3, 6:23am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Why does everyone give so much credit to the impact a president can make on the economy? Outside of executive orders, which can be challenged in court as we've seen with the supposed Muslim ban, how does the president ACTUALLY impact the economy? And I'm not saying he has zero impact, but people get chapped asses over my president versus your president.

The fact is the economy kind of just does what it does. People like/want money and things and will figure out or do whatever they can to get it. Outside of foreign affairs with the potential to start a war, the President is 3rd on my list in the whole checks and balances concept. Any major change that can impact everyday Americans is coming from Congress 9 out of 10 times. You should be way more concerned with your congress critter in your district and then your senators on the federal level. Technically the guys doing the same thing at the state level have WAY more impact on your day to day.

For example, if IL ever implemented a property tax freeze, which would need to be done by state government, I could literally save close to 6 figures over 30 years. Factor in if I reinvest the savings and you get the point, I think. Guess who I have more influence over? My state rep and senators. My state rep in my district is literally at my kids soccer game and I can sit there and have a chat with him. I'll dox myself a bit, but I'm not getting a meeting with Randy Hultgren (my federal rep) unless I'm worth 7 figures (I'm close, but have plenty of time).

The recent tax plan barely moved the needle for 99% of the population, which congress passed and then the president signed. Anyone claiming they're going to get massive savings (especially here) is likely lying through their teeth. They'd be FAR better off bitching and getting involved in their state politics and to some extent municipal level. They could end up saving way more (if you're into cuts) Again, outside of war, not sure why people put so much stock into the president and correlate it with the economy. Hell, the CEO of Apple probably has more control over the economy then the president does.
65   Aphroman   ignore (7)   2018 Aug 3, 7:00am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Agree Wookie, and to expand, I’ve asked this before and never get a response, why does it matter if anyone else likes the President or doesn’t like him?

Certain people seem to be convinced that you have to like Trump, and if you don’t like Trump, there’s something wrong. Like they’re ready to gang up and claim you’re the enemy and declare civil war just because you don’t blindly worship Trump. Very cultish and bizarre. Especially to hear their excuses.

Personally I’m only concerned with government and governance, the fútbol style politics is very off putting. Do a cost benefit analysis on the value of exerting energy into civil war over wether or not you love trump or else your a TDS enemy, realize it’s beyond worthless, and get on with life. There’s important things in government that could use the sheep turn down all that noise and focus on what matters.

I hear Trump supporters whinge about CNN and all the different gender and tranny in the bathroom nonsense like 10x more than any Democrats ever mentioned that nonsense.

The MSM is being mean to Trump oh no! How about turn off the Tv or at least change the channel FoxNews has all the Trump Dick Sucking and liberal hate mongering you can handle

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