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BLOCKBUSTER: Trump is changing the definition of Sex!


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2018 Oct 21, 6:35pm   5,035 views  37 comments

by MisdemeanorRebel   ➕follow (12)   💰tip   ignore  

Whoa, a WOW story -- the Trump Admin has a new definition of sex that would render 1.4 million transgendered people legally nonexistent: sex is "a person’s status as male or female based on immutable biological traits identifiable by or before birth.” https://t.co/tGgtA2wGZO— (((JonathanWeisman))) (@jonathanweisman) October 21, 2018



And as we all know, sexual reproduction is a stale pale, white male imperialist capitalist myth; we must decolonize biology.

Comments 1 - 37 of 37        Search these comments

1   curious2   2018 Oct 21, 6:59pm  

That would really be horrible for the many Americans who are born intersex. It would probably be unconstitutional to define them out of existence.

Intersex persons go back thousands of years, including Hindu hijras and native American berdaches. The current political dynamic of trolling large factions might produce electoral results, but at a terrible cost to small numbers of people whose lives become battlegrounds for large factions. To draw a military comparison, it looks like Johnson and Nixon's war in southeast Asia, where large powers waged devastating proxy wars with horrible consequences for the people living there. I can only hope that a nonpartisan judiciary will protect the right of all persons to the equal protection of the laws, including not being defined out of existence.
2   marcus   2018 Oct 21, 7:03pm  

Sounds like another unethical right wing ploy.

Get all the transgender folks screaming about Trump, right before elections. THat will certainly get the base and the Christian right, bible belters all riled up.

"Why, I've heard that those damn librul teachers are getting all of the children confused about their gender. Finally we have a President that's willing to do something about it. !"

This is the age of social media. You guys might as well get to work on your memes about this right now.
3   marcus   2018 Oct 21, 7:05pm  

THe right wing is the party of hate. IT got Trump elected in 2016. Maybe hate can get the right wing assholes out in good numbers again.

I say live and let live, even if I think most of those trans people are overly narcisistic and in some cases mentally ill. Leave it to dirty hateful republicans to take advantage of how most people feel about it.
4   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Oct 21, 7:07pm  

curious2 says
That would really be horrible for the many Americans who are born intersex. It would probably be unconstitutional to define them out of existence.


There are legit hermaphrodites and such, but it's nowhere near 1.4M.

The "Over a million" claim comes from activist sites which include all kinds of hormonal issues and other things that are not properly included in intersex, and the vast majority of people with hormone issues clearly identify as their birth sex their genitalia matches.

As this journal points out, it includes people with Klinefelter syndrome. I've known two people with that issue, but neither doubted for a moment they were biologically male and classically Cishetero, they fapped to Penthouse Centerfolds like all the other Cishets. Very prevalent in very nerdy people!


Anne Fausto-Sterling s suggestion that the prevalence of intersex might be as high as 1.7% has attracted wide attention in both the scholarly press and the popular media. Many reviewers are not aware that this figure includes conditions which most clinicians do not recognize as intersex, such as Klinefelter syndrome, Turner syndrome, and late-onset adrenal hyperplasia. If the term intersex is to retain any meaning, the term should be restricted to those conditions in which chromosomal sex is inconsistent with phenotypic sex, or in which the phenotype is not classifiable as either male or female. Applying this more precise definition, the true prevalence of intersex is seen to be about 0.018%, almost 100 times lower than Fausto-Sterling s estimate of 1.7%.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12476264

Chances are you've known somebody like this in your life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome
5   marcus   2018 Oct 21, 7:10pm  

So this is really a battle that Trump wants to pursue ? Making Kaitlyn legally a man ?

So obviously politics, and he's only talking about it to get the hater base riled up. He's not going to do it.
6   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Oct 21, 7:11pm  

marcus says
So this is really a battle that Trump wants to pursue ? Making Kaitlyn legally a man ?


Other way around. This is a Leftoid flipping out that some Department under Trump is insisting on two sexes.

Determining sex by inspecting the genitals of an infant is one of the most accurate medical tests known to man, it matches over 99.90% of the time. No blood test or urine sample comes close.
7   curious2   2018 Oct 21, 7:19pm  

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Applying this more precise definition, the true prevalence of intersex is seen to be about 0.018%, almost 100 times lower than Fausto-Sterling s estimate of 1.7%.


I have seen really narrow definitions used for political purposes, but even if we accept 0.018%, that would still be more than 50,000 Americans. More likely estimates add up to ~1%, which would be 3 million Americans. Whether 50k or 3m, they exist, and they have a right to continue to exist. If the administration defined "person" to mean "persons who don't live in Scranton, PA," the people of Scranton would have a right to challenge that definition.
8   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Oct 21, 7:20pm  

curious2 says
I have seen really narrow definitions used for political purposes, but even if we accept 0.018%, that would still be more than 50,000 Americans. They exist, and they have a right to continue to exist.



Yes, they do. There should be a category for Intersex/Other, but it should NOT be up to the individual to unilaterally decide. I want to identify and protect the 50,000 small minority that actually needs protection, not the 50 year old man who decides to leave his wife and his kids and dress up in diapers and pretend he's a 9-year old girl despite having all the normal male genitalia. That guy doesn't need special protections, and takes away from the safety/concerns of those who are legit intersex by accident of birth.
9   Ceffer   2018 Oct 21, 8:05pm  

'An immutable biologic trait' is a misnomer. More like, an end-point of variable genetic, hormonal or phenotypic expression as displayed in particular individuals of a species. Cultural overtones and memes are du jour.
10   lostand confused   2018 Oct 21, 8:27pm  

The dems have gone off the rail with the 100+ genders crap. But repubs should not go back tot eh crap of the 50s. Hopefully something acceptable to most people-nobody wants a 300 pound hairy beast using the ladies with little girls because he "feels"like a woman that day. but some consideration and acceptable norms should eb there.
12   komputodo   2018 Oct 21, 8:44pm  

marcus says
I say live and let live,


Unless they are a Trump supporter.
13   komputodo   2018 Oct 21, 8:45pm  

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
They exist, and they have a right to continue to exist.



Nobody is talking about killing them.
14   Patrick   2018 Oct 21, 8:48pm  

The right answer is "Sorry Stan, not going to call you Loretta."
15   Patrick   2018 Oct 21, 8:52pm  

curious2 says
It would probably be unconstitutional to define them out of existence.


Woah, non-existence? Is there is nothing else to these people except a confusion about their innate sexuality?

I'm certain that they will still eat, fart, and do all the other things that existing people do.
16   mell   2018 Oct 21, 9:04pm  

What's so hard about biological male, female and other sex based on facts where the other notated with an asterisk could be specified at the bottom of the document. Make a separate gender field if you want that is optional like a screen name and non binding to anyone. People can then fill it out with whatever they want.
17   FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut   2018 Oct 21, 10:14pm  

mell says
What's so hard about biological male, female and other sex based on facts where the other notated with an asterisk could be specified at the bottom of the document. Make a separate gender field if you want that is optional like a screen name and non binding to anyone. People can then fill it out with whatever they want.


Because there isn't "other". Other would be a major birth defect and isn't common enough to warrant everyone in every society changes to accommodate their craziness. Changing laws to accomodate more than 2 would send all laws into weird shit territory. Who is entitled to child support, who is the mother, who is the father, etc... There is only one solution, keep it simple, and birth defects/retards just suck it up.
18   joshuatrio   2018 Oct 22, 3:30am  

lostand confused says
The dems have gone off the rail with the 100+ genders crap.


Funny thing is that the left can't even tell you how many genders exist. The number changes on a daily basis.
19   joshuatrio   2018 Oct 22, 3:39am  

personal
20   marcus   2018 Oct 22, 6:25am  

joshuatrio says
Funny thing is that the left can't even tell you how many genders exist. The number changes on a daily basis.


Aren't I a leftie ? I say there are basically 2.

A trans person is someone we allow to essentially change to the other one
21   joshuatrio   2018 Oct 22, 6:27am  

marcus says
I say there are basically 2.


Not basically 2, only 2.

Any variation of which (hermaphrodite etc...) Is a genetic defect.

marcus says
A trans person is someone we allow to essentially change to the other one


Except they aren't really changing their gender. They are just puttting lipstick on a pig.
22   marcus   2018 Oct 22, 6:56am  

joshuatrio says
Except they aren't really changing their gender.


Technically no. But funny how the same people that have a no problem with nearly everything that comes out of Trumps mouth being a lie if you want to be truly factual, take issue with this.
23   HeadSet   2018 Oct 22, 7:21am  

A trans person is someone we allow to essentially change to the other one

So far. changing gender is beyond current medical science, just like restoring youth. Today's transgender woman is just a man in extreme drag.
24   Goran_K   2018 Oct 22, 8:32am  

marcus says
Sounds like another unethical right wing ploy.



or... uh... Science.
25   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   2018 Oct 22, 8:39am  

HeadSet says
A trans person is someone we allow to essentially change to the other one

So far. changing gender is beyond current medical science, just like restoring youth. Today's transgender woman is just a man in extreme drag.


What would be nice is if the msm could be honest about what is going on, rather than be a propaganda wing of the Democrat Party.

What is true is that people suffering from gender dysphoria ought to be afforded all rights granted in the constitution with perhaps increased legal protections from crime as they are historically and irrationally subject to physical violence and discrimination. The Democrat party and the msm have conspired to make a mockery of people suffering from this mental illness.
26   socal2   2018 Oct 22, 9:50am  

Maybe it will stop this insanity brought to us by the "Party of Science".

Look how much bigger this former dude is from the 2nd and 3rd place winners.

"McKinnon is first transgender woman to win world title"
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mckinnon-is-first-transgender-woman-to-win-world-title/
27   RC2006   2018 Oct 22, 10:27am  

Should be three.

Male, Female, Mutation, everything else mental illness.
28   SunnyvaleCA   2018 Oct 22, 10:41am  

The whole transgenderism thing is setting women's sports back practically to zero. If men can compete in women's sports then the women will be shut out. The women won't want to participate and neither women nor men will want to watch. You might as well just outlaw women's sports altogether.
29   Ceffer   2018 Oct 22, 10:46am  

Why can't women just kick her in the nuts like male athletes do, and win while she writhes on the ground.
30   Bd6r   2018 Oct 22, 11:16am  

Or just write laws without mentioning gender at all. With bathrooms, allow businesses to specify rules they want. With sports, if we (they) are for gender equality, make all competitions open to any gender.
31   Bd6r   2018 Oct 22, 11:35am  

SunnyvaleCA says
The women won't want to participate and neither women nor men will want to watch.

This is not different from what happens now. Womyn's sports are not that well-watched, other than beach volleyball for reasons that are definitely not athletic.
32   mell   2018 Oct 22, 11:57am  

FortWayneIndiana says
mell says
What's so hard about biological male, female and other sex based on facts where the other notated with an asterisk could be specified at the bottom of the document. Make a separate gender field if you want that is optional like a screen name and non binding to anyone. People can then fill it out with whatever they want.


Because there isn't "other". Other would be a major birth defect and isn't common enough to warrant everyone in every society changes to accommodate their craziness. Changing laws to accomodate more than 2 would send all laws into weird shit territory. Who is entitled to child support, who is the mother, who is the father, etc... There is only one solution, keep it simple, and birth defects/retards just suck it up.


There is other as curious2 and twoscoops mentioned. It's totally fine to have one box for those few genetic aberrations or to put in in PC form people that are differently built. This doesn't mean that every trans/lbgtq++-- gets their own gender, they have a biological sex which will be written in according to their biological facts. If they choose as an adult to transform they can do so to any of the 3, given that the biological procedures they are having done support that biological conclusion. The norm will still be male and female as it always has been.
33   krc   2018 Oct 22, 1:02pm  

Interesting and controversial. Sure - I don't care if someone wants to say they are a different sex. Whatever. I don't care about bathrooms either.
But it does have ramifications both legally and socially.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6298053/Trans-cyclist-defends-championship-win-3rd-place-competitor-complained-NOT-fair.html

Fact is that female sports will be ruined in the long term as more men convert to the female gender. Even if they go on hormones, etc... they had years of advantage with T and other components making them stronger than natural females - and that make the competitions inherently unfair. It is already happening at the local level and will go further. There was a boy who won the local girls 8th grade district 1 mile race - as he "identifies as female". Of course, no one will call this out. :)

Maybe this will work out right in the end. Sports should be just about the best -whether male or female. So, sports by gender seems inherently discriminatory - and maybe this will get us closer to that as essentially it will be males competing as females at the elite levels.

More interesting is what does track&field do with a born female with abnormally natural high T? I say she is fine to compete - but others disagree as well there.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/04/27/female-athletes-with-naturally-high-testosterone-levels-face-hurdles-under-new-iaaf-rules/
34   curious2   2018 Oct 22, 4:23pm  

The English language has three genders: he, she, and it. Other languages have the same, and assign gender to almost everything, even inanimate objects like desks and tables. In some languages, there are words for boy, girl, and child, and the word for child is actually a neuter noun.

Proper names have usually a gender association, but not always. Evelyn, Lesley, and others can be anything. A mentally competent adult has a right to change names, as Cassius Clay became Muhammad Ali. (It was controversial at the time, and Howard Cosell, who was a lawyer before becoming a sportscaster, became the first sportscaster to call Muhammad Ali by his new name.) A mentally competent adult may change names for any reason other than fraud. If you want to change your name legally, go to your nearest court house and fill out some forms, and you will get legal documentation of your new name. That has been the law for centuries. The sky did not fall yesterday, and it will not fall tomorrow, at least not because of people legally changing their names.

The American population is around 50% female, 49% male, and (depending on definition) 1% non-binary. It is possible to argue about who qualifies for what, but each person is unique and unless you want to write hyper-specific legislation there will be some necessity for individual evaluation, i.e. administrative and/or judicial. Even if you do write hyper-specific legislation, there will be individual challenges as at least a few people will almost certainly object to whatever category they have been assigned.

In my opinion, trans activism has gone a bit far with changing birth certificates. If you were born John Doe, and want to change your name to Jane Roe, then do a legal change of name and leave the historical record alone. With a legal change of name, you can use your new name for everything including your driver's license and passport. I see gender the same way. There can be rules about who is eligible for what, e.g. anatomical and whether people need surgery, but there are always people who don't fit neatly into male or female, so having a non-binary category is a good idea.

IRL, I have met several trans people, and they were definitely not retarded. Ceffer commented some might have OCD, which is an interesting hypothesis. Whatever the reason, they are people with a right to live their own lives.

It is unfortunate that a small % of people get kicked around as an electoral football. Republicans are using non-binary persons to drive a wedge, particularly over shared restrooms, and Democrats become so intransigent that they lose. For example, in Houston, Democrats accused voters of homophobia over the bathroom issue. Houston had twice elected an openly gay mayor, and yet Democrats called voters homophobic; it was bizarre. If people have an issue with restrooms, then adjust the building code so that going forward new buildings and major renovations will have single occupancy restrooms and it doesn't matter who uses them. Modern single occupancy restrooms include a changing table, which is also a good idea: if a mother needs to change the diaper on her infant son, what sex are they? Over time, as new construction improves upon old construction, the issue fades away. Meanwhile, both major parties prefer to use the issue for electoral purposes, dividing and misruling as usual.
35   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Oct 22, 4:45pm  

But I was told for years by the SJWs that Sex was biological sex, and Gender was something else, they were not the same thing.

In fact, I still think that is still Social Justice Dogma.

The definition of Sex is being returned to what applies to 99%+ of all humanity. The rest are unfortunate birth defects, and are covered under discrimination for medically handicapped.

curious2 says
In my opinion, trans activism has gone a bit far with changing birth certificates. If you were born John Doe, and want to change your name to Jane Roe, then do a legal change of name and leave the historical record alone. With a legal change of name, you can use your new name for everything including your driver's license and passport. I see gender the same way. There can be rules about who is eligible for what, e.g. anatomical and whether people need surgery, but there are always people who don't fit neatly into male or female, so having a non-binary category is a good idea.


Yes, Gender is gender, Sex is sex.

Gender also seems to be spreading to general sexual preferences, also. It's no longer a male sexed individual who thinks he's a woman, or a female sex organ possessor who isn't really sure if she's a boy or a girl.

Pretty soon, we're gonna hear: "I'm a Legosexual, I like Legs." or "I'm a ballonoqueer, I get off to the sound of popping balloons".

In any case, I agree - Gender is up for the individual to decide, but Sex has many useful applications, including medical or criminal. (IE the rape suspect identifies as Female but is of the Male Sex). To use an extreme example, this person:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/09/sexual-assaults-in-womens-prison-reignite-debate-over-transgender-inmates-karen-white
36   Heraclitusstudent   2018 Oct 22, 6:22pm  

curious2 says
It is unfortunate that a small % of people get kicked around as an electoral football. Republicans are using non-binary persons to drive a wedge

No, it's an issue mostly pushed by Democrats, precisely to drive a wedge. It's all calculated to irritate and divide people.
They would rather talk about this than to talk about inequalities, healthcare, housing.... which are issues that are actually, you know, affecting most Americans, more than which bathroom they are going to use.
37   Heraclitusstudent   2018 Oct 22, 6:29pm  

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-two-sexes-is-overly-simplistic/

This pulls a fair amount of wool. This issue should be more simple: regardless of underlying complexities, there are 2 obvious clusters that influence a number of traits.
Claiming these clusters cover all people is idiotic.
But so is the claim that these clusters do not exist.
Further the 2 clusters are obviously relevant socially because reproduction (not economic production) is THE central activity of life.

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