patrick.net

Can that guy point to any country on Earth were all drugs are completely legal and freely accessible to anyone? I mean, if there is a success story, let's hear it.

"The caravan of migrants consists of unarmed poor people, including women and children, who are fleeing Central America to escape starvation and violence"

As though it hasn't been that way from time immemorial? Why don't they change their policies in Central America so they won't have starvation and violence? Why do they want to bring their problems to North America, which is exactly what they intend to do, not escape them.

The migrant caravan is a result of our war on drugs

Let me fix that for you:

The migrant caravan is a result of our insatiable appetite on drugs.

So many want their pot, coke, smack, and meth and care not a wit of any damages caused by the supply chain. Vote me "Total Autocratic and Unappealable Decision Maker", and I will make ALL drugs legal. I would not stop anyone from shooting gasoline in their veins if they wanted. That way the victims of drugs would just be the users, and not the tens of thousands of people murdered or otherwise victimized by the drug lords.

HeadSet says

That way the victims of drugs would just be the users

There's no real way for that to happen, since drug use is never victimless in one way or another since we are social creatures with extensive social dependencies, families, and relationships.

The remains keep shambling about for a really long time and usually reproduce before they die, which creates most of the mess for the emergency/medical system and society at large. It's getting everybody on board about how to treat the shambling remains that is the insoluble problem.

No it's not.

HeadSet says

make ALL drugs legal

Alcohol is legal, yet it is restricted to those under 18 or 21 depending upon where you live with not a bit of objection. You don't see many 12 or 13 year old alcoholics but that's the benefit of drugs--with their ubiquity, so many of the "remains" as Ceffer described them began using at 12 or 13 and just graduated to the harder stuff as they aged. This all started 50 years ago as the taboos and moral prohibitions were destroyed and people began just doing as they pleased without regard to future consequences. That's why we have this monolith of social service bureaucracies, halfwit houses, drug treatment centers to try and corral the human destruction that has resulted during that time. Janis Joplin, Jimmy Hendricks, Jim Morrison could have been early warning signs like those of cancer that things were getting out of control and would just get worse and worse.

Ceffer says

There's no real way for that to happen, since drug use is never victimless in one way or another since we are social creatures with extensive social dependencies. families, and relationships.

The remains keep shambling about for a really long time and usually reproduce before they die, which creates most of the mess for the emergency/medical system and society at large. It's getting everybody on board about how to treat the shambling remains that is the insoluble problem.

Question is, what is more expensive - legalizing everything and having some rehabilitation/medical costs or paying for policepersons salaries/retirement from age of 40 and incarceration (which includes medical costs) + property damage by stealing druggies.

dr6B says

rehabilitation/medical costs

Rehab doesn't work and American medical costs are always the most expensive. A cheaper and simpler way to provide for dysfunctional people of all sorts would be to maintain special towns in remote areas. Vagrants would get free transit to a special town where they get free food, clothing, and shelter, and really basic medical care (vaccines, cheap generics, set a broken bone, but nothing expensive). A police department would address violence and property crime.

I used to think it would require separate 'boys towns' and 'girls towns,' but now I think durable and reversible male and female contraception would enable integrated "free" towns.

Some people are simply not wired for the conventional treadmill way of life. The compassionate and practical solution is to isolate by creating some sort of "free" towns, where on condition of good behavior they can live out their lives without causing the problems that are happening currently.

Instead, they get monetized by the prison industrial complex or the medical industrial complex, and cause other costs to the local population (e.g. burglaries, muggings, panhandling, and sometimes disease). Republicans sell punishment and Democrats sell phony compassion, but both are really maximizing the revenue of their financiers. If you want to solve the actual problem, consider isolation.

Many addicts are highly functional, e.g. Bella Lugosi and Ray Charles, and do not need isolation or public assistance of any sort. Arresting Ray Charles was a mistake. Others are dysfunctional until they reach a decision point, like a midlife crisis, when they rethink their lives and decide to do something more productive. The best you can do is provide at a basic level for the dysfunctional ones, let them decide whether to change or to continue, and not use them as an electoral football to increase government power (including in the form of revenue) as they are used now.

Meanwhile, the drug "war" in Latin America is definitely driving migration north. Mexico is a beautiful country but gang warfare has killed 100k Mexicans, including the U.S. government arming all sides (Merida initiative, "fast and furious"). Hillary Clinton claimed credit for "managing" the corporate coup in Honduras. Policies in Washington DC are definitely driving the illegal migration into the USA, and that might be deliberate to supply cheap illegal labor.

P N Dr Lo R says

Why do they want to bring their problems to North America, which is exactly what they intend to do, not escape them.

Interesting that They are waving their national flags about while fleeing their nations. What’s that about? Pride in one’s country but so tired of it that they’re trying to leave it forever?
There’s a term for a group of young men moving in on another country’s borders waving their national flags as they go: an invading army.

Quigley says

P N Dr Lo R says

Why do they want to bring their problems to North America, which is exactly what they intend to do, not escape them.

Interesting that They are waving their national flags about while fleeing their nations. What’s that about? Pride in one’s country but so tired of it that they’re trying to leave it forever?
There’s a term for a group of young men moving in on another country’s borders waving their national flags as they go: an invading army.

Immigrants south of our boarder differ from all other immigrants, they believe they are entitled to our land. They are the failed over flow from a backwards and uneducated population. They overrun and chase out all other groups wherever they settle and create exactly what they ran from.

Quigley says

There’s a term for a group of young men moving in on another country’s borders waving their national flags as they go: an invading army.

Better yet: A Horde

Immigrants, 2018


Immigrants, 1918


Also notice how many families and women and children are in the first pic.

If it is mostly MS-13, then the statement is true. Gangs never existed on the scale that they do now when you could get cocaine and speed from the pharmacy.

NuttBoxer says

If it is mostly MS-13, then the statement is true. Gangs never existed on the scale that they do now when you could get cocaine and speed from the pharmacy.

Yep, just like prohibition strengthened mafia, drug war created gangs. Politicians never learn - they do the same thing, and expect a different result.

Another reason for drug legalization.

RC2006 says

Interesting that They are waving their national flags about while fleeing their nations. What’s that about? Pride in one’s country but so tired of it that they’re trying to leave it forever?
There’s a term for a group of young men moving in on another country’s borders waving their national flags as they go: an invading army.

Immigrants south of our boarder differ from all other immigrants, they believe they are entitled to our land. They are the failed over flow from a backwards and uneducated population. They overrun and chase out all other groups wherever they settle and create exactly what they ran from.

Perhaps people who orchestrate this march tell them what to do and which flags to wave. Does anyone really think that a poor Guatemalan peasant has much political opinions other than wanting a better life (which US has no responsibility to provide, obviously)? With respect to earlier vs. this type of immigration, what we have in these marches can not be called immigration. It is called breaking the law. I'd say catch organizers of this march and prosecute them as human traffickers. After a few will be in jail for 10+ years, marches will stop.

Also, these migrant caravans could not have come at a better time for R's as election is soon. If I'd be a R political strategist, I'd embed a few of my people in caravan organizers and make sure that caravan reaches US a few days before election, with full and constant press coverage. Usually though political strategists are dumb as rocks, so this is an unlikely explanation. More likely it is just fucking stupid lefties shooting themselves in foot.