« prev   random   next »

2
1

Can anyone refute this guy's argument against Democrat open border immigration?

By Goran_K following x   2018 Nov 29, 8:37am 5,490 views   124 comments   watch   nsfw   quote     share    





If so I'd like to hear the argument.

Comments 1 - 40 of 124    Next »    Last »

1   zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2018 Nov 29, 9:21am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Obligatory:
2   Herdingcats   ignore (1)   2018 Nov 29, 9:56am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
If so I'd like to hear the argument.


Yes, I can. The libertarians are the ones with the platform of advocating for open boarders.

https://openborders.info/libertarian/

Can you show a similar platform advocated by the democrats? Your silence will prove me right but feel free to link to the democrats platform so as to prove me wrong.
3   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2018 Nov 29, 10:14am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Herdingcats says
Can you show a similar platform advocated by the democrats? Your silence will prove me right but feel free to link to the democrats platform so as to prove me wrong.



Abolish ICE. Here's a list of Prominent Democrats.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/02/politics/abolish-ice-democrats-list/index.html

Senator Warner to eliminate the Anti-Sex Trafficking Tactic of separating children from their alleged "Relatives" to see if Uncle Juan is really Pimp Juan.
https://www.warner.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2018/6/warner-kaine-introduce-legislation-to-end-cruel-policy-that-separates-children-from-their-parents-at-the-border

Warner, Schatz, Heitkamp and former RINOs Corker and Flake and others try to take away National Security Tariffs to prevent Trump from allowing China from duping the Steel and Aluminium that Europe and others already prevented.
https://www.warner.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2018/6/sen-warner-introduces-bipartisan-legislation-to-limit-national-security-designated-trade-tariffs
4   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2018 Nov 29, 10:21am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

2016 Dem Platform:
For fun, do a search for "Border". The Democratic Party Platform talks about borders in Afghanistan, Russia, the Middle East, etc. - but not a single reference to our own border except a glittering generality about transnational world problems that cross borders.
https://democrats.org/about/party-platform/

The Democratic Platform on immigration is wholly about the poor illegals in the shadows, the "denigration" of immigrants, fixing immigration backlogs, getting them on ACA plans, etc. and nothing about reducing their impact on wages, housing, school systems, and infrastructure. Chillingly, it talks of "No Religious Test", which is a codeword for "we'll let all the Muslims in". So the Dem Platform only thinks our massive immigration problem is one of not enough immigrants.

And enjoy the pro-Israel references. This is the last time you'll see those.
5   Iranian_Oil_Burse   ignore (5)   2018 Nov 29, 10:34am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Herdingcats says
Can you show a similar platform advocated by the democrats?


Even better, legislation: sanctuary state legislation in CA, for example.
6   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 Nov 29, 10:39am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Herdingcats says
Yes, I can. The libertarians are the ones with the platform of advocating for open boarders.


This is an over-simplification, but there's definitely truth to it. The right to travel freely is a God given right that no government should have the right to take away. I'm thinking mainly of the passport system, that didn't exist until WWII. A Libertarian mindset says let anyone in who isn't a criminal. But, and this is a BIG but, Libertarians also say no free handouts. And we are certainly in favor of jailing or deporting any law-breakers.
7   HEYYOU   ignore (31)   2018 Nov 29, 10:41am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Who gives a shit about someone's opinion?
Those that try to troll around the facts.

"There were 10.7 million unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. in 2016,"

How many are here under a Republican controlled govt.?
Rep/Cons can't even get rid of the illegals we already have.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/28/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
8   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 Nov 29, 10:42am   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
Can anyone refute this guy's argument against Democrat open border immigration?


Are Republicans any better at cutting social services, eliminating free public education, or prosecuting employers of illegals? As none of those things have changed anytime recently, I'd say no. As usual, government is the problem, and left/right is just the distraction keeping you from identifying the solution.
9   SunnyvaleCA   ignore (0)   2018 Nov 29, 10:57am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

NuttBoxer says
Are Republicans any better at cutting social services, eliminating free public education, or prosecuting employers of illegals?

For the most part, no. And that's why Trump got elected. Unfortunately, the swamp, RINOs, and Democrats are doing all that they can to thwart him and the preferences of the citizens.

At least Republicans are (nominally) against sanctuary cities.
10   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 Nov 29, 11:19am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ok, but regardless of reasons or excuses, the bottom line is government isn't the answer, I don't give a fuck which side you think you're on. We want shit fixed, we have to do it ourselves.
11   Goran_K   ignore (3)   2018 Nov 29, 11:32am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Herdingcats says
Goran_K says
If so I'd like to hear the argument.


Yes, I can. The libertarians are the ones with the platform of advocating for open boarders.

https://openborders.info/libertarian/

Can you show a similar platform advocated by the democrats? Your silence will prove me right but feel free to link to the democrats platform so as to prove me wrong.


Nope, no silence here.

I feel like others have already done a great job of explaining, but Sanctuary Cities, SF registering illegals to vote, Abolish ICE etc,.

You won't address any of the above, so I guess your silence is going to be very telling as well.
12   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2018 Nov 29, 12:14pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

20% of the US Population is Foreign Born.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/13/us/census-foreign-population.html

The next country is Germany, then Russia, both with just under 5%.

The USA has more than 400% foreign born as a percentage of the population, not raw numbers than the next two countries

That's overwhelmingly extreme and must be pared back at least 2/3rd
13   Herdingcats   ignore (1)   2018 Nov 29, 2:34pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
Nope, no silence here.


Yet off topic!

The topic was "democrats open board immigration" platform. You said there was one. I asked you to show us where this proof of this Democratic open boarders platform was. None has been linked.

Many have gone off topic speaking of

Goran_K says

I feel like others have already done a great job of explaining, but Sanctuary Cities, SF registering illegals to vote, Abolish ICE etc,.


All of which is off topic and should be flagged.

Does ICE = boarder patrol? What do sectuary cities have to do with open boarders? Or what does SF registering illegals to vote for education issues at we're their legal kids go to school have to do with open boarders?

Goran_K says
You won't address any of the above, so I guess your silence is going to be very telling as well.


These threads already exist and those discussions should happen in the appropriate places. Why should I discuss off topic issues here?



So once again,
Herdingcats says
The libertarians are the ones with the platform of advocating for open boarders.

https://openborders.info/libertarian/

Can you show a similar platform advocated by the democrats?


Please, let's keep it on topic
14   Iranian_Oil_Burse   ignore (5)   2018 Nov 29, 2:36pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

NuttBoxer says
passport system, that didn't exist until WWII
.

Not true.
15   Rin   ignore (3)   2018 Nov 29, 2:44pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

We should only have open borders for ppl who're independently wealthy as thus, don't require a job of any sort.

This is exactly how I plan on retiring to Australia where there is legalized hoeing.
16   jazz_music   ignore (12)   2018 Nov 29, 4:28pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Democrats open borders using The same tear gas used on migrants at the U.S.-Mexico border on Sunday was also used under the Obama administration?

Figures from Homeland Security show the tear gas was deployed almost 80 times during Obama's later years

Does tear gas open the borders?
17   Herdingcats   ignore (1)   2018 Nov 29, 4:31pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
If so I'd like to hear the argument.



@goran_k

Furthermore the guy doesn't once utter the word Democrat. He does, however, state the problem is up to Congress to fix. He is basically saying that the Republicans failed to make changes to the US immigration policy when they had control of the House and Senate over the last two years.
18   Reality   ignore (5)   2018 Nov 29, 4:32pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The foreign-born population ranking is mistaken. Germany and Russia are not even close to the top in terms of foreign-born percentage, not even the US! Countries like Kuwait, Qatar, UAE have more foreign-born population than native-born population (i.e. more than 50% are foreign-born). The reason is money/opportunity. Its just like NYC and SF have much higher percentage of transplants than Boondock does. The city of Detroit had more than 80% transplants from other parts of the US when the carmakers built the city in the 1910's and 1920's.

This brings into focus the real counter-point to the video: the real legit reason for allowing immigration is not our charity, but should be to our own benefit! primary in two ways:

1. People from poorer foreign countries tend to work harder after they arrive (before the age of welfare), harder than the coddled native borns. That's to the benefit of Americans.

2. Drain the brains of countries like Russia, China and India, so they don't out-compete us in the long run. This happened previously with Germans in the 19th century. US saved England in both WWI and WWII; Eisenhower was obviously of German ancestry.

What should be abolished is the welfare system. Stopping welfare has the additional advantage of forcing immigrants to integrate into American way of life and American value, instead of isolating themselves and building their 7th century sandcastles at taxpayer expense.
19   Rin   ignore (3)   2018 Nov 29, 4:34pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Reality says
What should be abolished is the welfare system.


Up until AI eliminates all jobs. Between now and then, we should only give welfare to those citizens (read: not on visa) whose jobs are permanently automated forever.
20   Reality   ignore (5)   2018 Nov 29, 4:41pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
give welfare to those citizens whose jobs are permanently automated forever.


Does that mean stevedores should receive welfare after the invention of cranes? How about farmers after the invention of steam tractor? Of course then the steam engine mechanics after the invention of diesel engine for tractors? Then Combines and GPS-directed self-driving Combines?

Only the old and truly disabled should be receiving charity . . . and private charity (i.e. run by competitive channels) can deal with frauds much more efficiently than government bureaucrats can. Of course private charities are more likely to help citizens instead of snackbar just coming off the boat. Foreign-funded charities should be banned, as they are usually arms of foreign governments.
21   Rin   ignore (3)   2018 Nov 29, 4:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Reality says
Rin says
give welfare to those citizens whose jobs are permanently automated forever.


Does that mean stevedores should receive welfare after the invention of cranes? How about farmers after the invention of steam tractor? Of course then the steam engine mechanics after the invention of diesel engine for tractors? Then Combines and GPS-directed self-driving Combines?

Only the old and truly disabled should be receiving charity . . . and private charity (i.e. run by competitive channels) can deal with frauds much more efficiently than government bureaucrats can.


Not this time around, those were the agricultural to industrial to service economy shifts.

This time, however, there will be no future economy for anyone to move into, once AI eliminates all jobs. The problem with today is that the workforce has so many inefficiencies, that we can maintain a long term contracting (non-full time) workforce for at least another generation. Afterwards, however, it'll all be gone.
22   Reality   ignore (5)   2018 Nov 29, 4:54pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
Not this time around, those were the agricultural to industrial to service economy shifts.

This time, however, there will be no future economy for anyone to move into, once AI eliminates all jobs. The problem with today is that the workforce has so many inefficiencies, that we can maintain a long term contracting (non-full time) workforce for at least another generation. Afterwards, however, it'll all be gone.


When AI eliminates all human jobs, AI will eliminate all humans or turn human beings into pets (and the pound usually puts a limit on how many days the strays are kept); that's a decision for them to make.

So far, the evidence is that human beings are still the most versatile tool on the planet. However, they have a built-in preference for leisure. So removing the incentive to find new jobs or work will quickly reduce people to idleness, as all the socialist experiments found out (from Mayflower to Soviet Union).
23   Goran_K   ignore (3)   2018 Nov 29, 4:59pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Herdingcats says
I asked you to show us where this proof of this Democratic open boarders platform was. None has been linked.

These threads already exist and those discussions should happen in the appropriate places. Why should I discuss off topic issues here?




lol, like I said. Totally ignoring all evidence and avoiding discussion altogether just as predicted.

Herdingcats says
All of which is off topic and should be flagged.


Don't worry about such things, the mods will flag when appropriate. You're wrong in your assumptions.

However IMO you ignoring the topic and not addressing points while being argumentative is trolling. We'll see how long that lasts.
24   Herdingcats   ignore (1)   2018 Nov 29, 5:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
Herdingcats says
I asked you to show us where this proof of this Democratic open boarders platform was. None has been linked.


lol, like I said. Totally ignoring all evidence.


Lol, like I said. Totally not providing proof that the democrats support an open boarder policy. Why am I not surprised.
25   FPBT   ignore (3)   2018 Nov 29, 5:09pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Herdingcats says
Why am I not surprised.


Dishonest people are dishonest nothing to be surprised about.
26   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2018 Nov 29, 5:13pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The Proof in the Democratic Platform.

All of the problems they want to fix are about helping and increasing immigrants, not enforcing the laws.

They list nothing concrete about how they intend to implement new or enforce old border or immigration laws for control purposes. Only to facilitate immigration and help immigrants.
27   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2018 Nov 29, 5:16pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Herdingcats says
Does ICE = boarder patrol?


Half of all illegal immigrants come in via airports, and are the responsibility of ICE, not the Border Patrol.

Herdingcats says
What do sectuary cities have to do with open boarders?


You're being facetious. Sanctuary Cities by definition are where local Law Enforcement is restricted largely or wholly from assisting ICE operations or alerting ICE, whose responsibility deporting immigrants is. Or any Federal Authority.

Herdingcats says
Or what does SF registering illegals to vote for education issues at we're their legal kids go to school have to do with open boarders?


It's part and parcel of encouraging and welcoming illegal border crossers. Allowing them to dilute the vote of actual citizens is encouraging illegal immigration.
28   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2018 Nov 29, 5:16pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Herdingcats says
Does ICE = boarder patrol?


Half of all illegal immigrants come in via airports, and are the responsibility of ICE, not the Border Patrol.

Herdingcats says
What do sectuary cities have to do with open boarders?


You're being facetious. Sanctuary Cities by definition are where local Law Enforcement is restricted largely or wholly from assisting ICE operations or alerting ICE, whose responsibility deporting immigrants is. Or any Federal Authority.

Herdingcats says
Or what does SF registering illegals to vote for education issues at we're their legal kids go to school have to do with open boarders?


It's part and parcel of encouraging and welcoming illegal border crossers. Allowing them to dilute the vote of actual citizens is encouraging illegal immigration.
29   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2018 Nov 29, 5:18pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Reality says
Countries like Kuwait, Qatar, UAE have more foreign-born population than native-born population (i.e. more than 50% are foreign-born).


Those are Slaves... I mean, guest workers who have their passports taken and regularly beaten and abused. Kuwaitis flipped out when the government mandated a single day off for "Domestic (Slave) Laborers".

Also, Germany, Russia, France, UK, Brazil, etc. are Real Regular to Large sized countries, not little Sultanates like Kuwait or Qatar with a long history of living off slave labor and producing nothing but repacking exports between east and west with a markup
30   Herdingcats   ignore (1)   2018 Nov 29, 5:21pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
The Proof in the Democratic Platform.


Which is not open boarder. Tell me if Republicans really wanted a change made to the immigration policies why didn't they do something about it when they had control of the House and Senate?
31   Herdingcats   ignore (1)   2018 Nov 29, 5:23pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Half of all illegal immigrants come in via airports, and are the responsibility of ICE, not the Border Patrol.
really? Sounds like ICE is doing a terrible job. Why do they let them in if they are illegal?
32   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2018 Nov 29, 5:24pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Herdingcats says
Which is not open boarder. Tell me if Republicans really wanted a change made to the immigration policies why didn't they do something about it when they had control of the House and Senate?



Like I said, go read it.

It has NOTHING to say about regulating the border. Every suggestion the Democrats make both in there and in public has to do with MOAR immigrants, less enforcement, etc.

Airports ARE Border Areas, btw.

Herdingcats says
really? Sounds like ICE is doing a terrible job. Why do they let them in if they are illegal?


Think carefully about how somebody could come to the country legally and then be illegal.

(Hint, it's stapled inside a passport).
33   Herdingcats   ignore (1)   2018 Nov 29, 5:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
You're being facetious

No really, what do sanctuary Cities have to do with open boarders? They really are to separate issues.
34   Herdingcats   ignore (1)   2018 Nov 29, 5:27pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Allowing them to dilute the vote of actual citizens is encouraging illegal immigration.


I disagree, im guessing an illegal does not say to themselves that they will become illegal because SF will let them vote on school board elections. Actually I was a poll worker in SF and nobody fitting that statues came in to vote. I digress, this is a separate issue as to open boarders. Not relevant.
35   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2018 Nov 29, 5:30pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Herdingcats says
No really, what do sanctuary Cities have to do with open boarders? They really are to separate issues.


You're basically saying "Once you sneak across the border to over here, we won't report you to immigration agencies."

So yes, that's encouraging an open border.

Herdingcats says
I disagree, yet still is a separate issue as to open boarders.



Again, you're rewarding illegal border crossers with an unearned benefit. Thus encouraging an open border by non-enforcement.

Let me ask YOU a question. What new idea or extra funding does the Democrat House have planned for border enforcement, which is obviously inadequate given that hundreds of thousands illegally cross borders each year?
36   Herdingcats   ignore (1)   2018 Nov 29, 5:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Airports ARE Border Areas, btw.


And they don't let illegals in at the airport. Airlines are fined big league for having a passenger arrive without a passport. So please don't insult my intelligence and be honest and admit no illegals enter at the airport but they do become illegal when they overstay their visa. Which brings me to another question, can you please tell me how a wall is going to stop this practice of people overstaying thier visa?
37   Herdingcats   ignore (1)   2018 Nov 29, 5:42pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
(Hint, it's stapled inside a passport).


They use Staples in Russia?
38   Herdingcats   ignore (1)   2018 Nov 29, 5:47pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Let me ask YOU a question.


I asked you a question, why, when Republicans had control of the House and Senate didn't they do anything about immigration?
39   Herdingcats   ignore (1)   2018 Nov 29, 6:08pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
However IMO you ignoring the topic


Is the topic democrats open boarder policy? That's what I thought you said in the OP. I didn't know the topic was sanctuary cities or SF letting illegals vote for school board members or what ever other topic was brought up. So again I ask where is the link to democrats stating they want open boarders. Please I beg of you link to somewhere were I can see this open boarder policy that you say the Democrats have.

I do not dispute that their policies encourage people to cross the boarder but that is not equal to having an open boarder platform. You have yet to prove me wrong.
40   Herdingcats   ignore (1)   2018 Nov 29, 6:13pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
However IMO you ignoring the topic and not addressing points while being argumentative is trolling


Really. You are not addressing points. Why didn't the Republicans do anything about immigration when they had control of the House and Senate? Simple question. Also how does a wall stop the people 2 scoops admitted come threw the airports to overstay their visas?

Comments 1 - 40 of 124    Next »    Last »


about   best comments   contact   one year ago   suggestions