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Is is possible to get the government to work for the people?


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2018 Dec 9, 4:23pm   2,889 views  33 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (55)   💰tip   ignore  

Take something as simple at attempting to cancel Comcast service, which is famously well-nigh impossible. This could easily be fixed by Congress, but they won't do it, ever. The fundamental reason why Congress will not make one-line laws in the public interest, like "All paid internet services must put a clear cancel link with the text "cancel service" on their home page and immediately cancel service without delay or conditions if any subscriber requests it" is that Congress gets paid mostly by companies like Comcast in the form of "campaign donations":

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/toprecips.php?id=D000000461&cycle=2018

Let's see exactly how much Comcast bribed congress lately:

House # of Members Average Contribution Total Contributions
Democrats 147 $5,144 $756,285
Republicans 188 $7,381 $1,387,750
Independents 0 $0 $0
TOTAL 335 $6,400 $2,144,035

The US House of Representatives has 435 members.

Senate # of Members Average Contribution Total Contributions
Democrats 38 $22,287 $846,906
Republicans 18 $11,008 $198,160
Independents 2 $193 $11,242
TOTAL 58 $18,212 $1,056,308

The US Senate has 100 members.

Top Recipients
Chamber Member Amount
Senate Casey, Bob (D-PA) $154,025
Senate McCaskill, Claire (D-MO) $93,155
Senate Brown, Sherrod (D-OH) $71,976
Senate Tester, Jon (D-MT) $62,689
Senate Nelson, Bill (D-FL) $49,505
House Scanlon, Mary Gay (D-PA) $45,100
Senate Klobuchar, Amy (D-MN) $43,260
Senate Heitkamp, Heidi (D-ND) $41,764 ...

(Gosh, lots of Democrats seem to be at the top of the corruption list.)

So Comcast alone has 53% of the Senate and 77% of the House in their pockets.

Is it possible to reverse this? Could there be a "people's lobby" which can outspend business lobbying? If not, would it help to make all campaigns publicly financed so that Congressmen don't feel they have to take bribes to get enough money to stay in office?

Comments 1 - 33 of 33        Search these comments

1   Booger   2018 Dec 9, 4:32pm  

#FuckComcast
2   Patrick   2018 Dec 9, 4:49pm  

Hey, which Congressmen get the least in bribes?
3   Patrick   2018 Dec 9, 4:53pm  

There is the saying that "People get the government they deserve."

So let's deserve something better by figuring out a way to stop the wholesale bribery of Congress.

Publicly funded campaigns seems like a good start.
4   marcus   2018 Dec 9, 4:59pm  

Thank goodness that the conservative side of scotus got us the ruling that Corporations are people.

I'm sure they didn't do it becasue they wanted corruption. They did it becasue of fear, and with the idea that corporations would somehow protect the people from the commie liberals.

Patrick says
"people's lobby"


Interesting idea. But two problems. First it might cause campaign costs to spiral ever higher. Two, it would be almost impossible to have them not be aligned with one party or the other. Which is the method used to divide and conquer.

An example: Climate change. Can you imagine how much better we would be doing with this issue, if it hadn't been attached to Al Gore and the evil liberals ? Once an isue is attached to a party some of the wealthy and powerful "people" such as Brietbart, Fox or CNN go to work tearing it down, so that roughly half the people will not approve. Having climate change attached to the left was actually good for the Koch brothers, and the other entrenched fossil fuel players. Incredibly good.

That's why we can't get a good health care solution or financial regulations. Bipartisanism can not exist at this point unless we are under attack.
5   Patrick   2018 Dec 9, 5:03pm  

@marcus What is your solution then?
6   marcus   2018 Dec 9, 5:12pm  

I don't claim to have the answer. Maybe we should look at history ? WE used to solve big problems better. But that was before peoples fears were so incredibly trumped up.

Maybe your idea could work if those lobbyist for the people organizations were very purposely non-partisan. But then what happens when they choose to fight for an issue - that surely one party of the other is more aligned with ? I guess it's okay. We're bound to learn how to deal with propaganda better, in the social media and twitter age. (not necessarily talking about filters or censoring).

I think probably the most important piece would be some kind of serious campaign finance reform. Perhaps combined with caps on how much a corporation can spend on buying politicians. But these are too vague to be answers. I really don't know. We're pretty well screwed as things are now. Way too polarized, mostly over bullshit.

That's why I like the IDW. Real deep (long form) conversations between cool people on both sides of the spectrum (or both side of the intelligent middle really).
7   FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut   2018 Dec 9, 5:16pm  

only government that works for the people is small government and lots of freedom. our problems come from our government becoming too big. human nature will dictate that big government will get bigger for own benefit, subjugate people. first rule of any government agency is to protect and grow such agency, it's not to help people.
8   Patrick   2018 Dec 9, 5:17pm  

marcus says
That's why I like the IDW. Real deep conversations between cool people on both sides of the spectrum (or both side of the intelligent middle really).


Got links?
9   GNL   2018 Dec 9, 5:18pm  

Patrick says
There is the saying that "People get the government they deserve."

So let's deserve something better by figuring out a way to stop the wholesale bribery of Congress.

Publicly funded campaigns seems like a good start.

I could get behind publicly funded campaign reform but WHY the hell do we need our own lobby? It's extortion. Why can't we charge all of government elected officials with extortion?

SO, THE ANSWER IS NO, the government will never work for the people ever again. At least not without a successful revolution.
10   Patrick   2018 Dec 9, 5:18pm  

FortWayneIndiana says
first rule of any government agency is to protect and grow such agency, it's not to help people


True.

And very much like Buffett's "institutional imperatives":

(1) As if governed by Newton’s First Law of Motion, an institution will resist any change in its current direction; (2) Just as work expands to fill available time, corporate projects or acquisitions will materialize to soak up available funds; (3) Any business craving of the leader, however foolish, will be quickly supported by detailed rate-of-return and strategic studies prepared by his troops; and (4) The behavior of peer companies, whether they are expanding, acquiring, setting executive compensation or whatever, will be mindlessly imitated.
11   Patrick   2018 Dec 9, 5:19pm  

WineHorror1 says
Why can't we charge all of government elected officials with extortion?


Because they make the laws, not us.
12   GNL   2018 Dec 9, 5:21pm  

Patrick says
Because they make the laws, not us.

That answers the question you have posited.
13   marcus   2018 Dec 9, 5:37pm  

Patrick says
Got links?


Not to IDW solving this problem.

But here's a good short one.

www.youtube.com/embed/XC-76R1qOqg

Of course a far left person would consider this next one "alt right."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1opHWsHr798&t=5785s

How about Sam Harris and Peterson at their debate ? This is sort of like a much better articulated and intelligent version of the debate I used to have on here with Dan. Petersons position is very close mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhBHavDPhNM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEf6X-FueMo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmXq97do-tQ
14   mell   2018 Dec 9, 6:16pm  

Part of it is the problem Patrick mentioned, but the other part is that today's generations are addicted to consumerism. Back in the days some families didn't have TV at all, many grew up without any cable channels and if you didn't like the way somebody did business you would not patronize them. And while there are some monopolies it is pretty easy these days to find alternatives if you needed to, or assert yourself if you stick with fuckCast. I mean don't do business with them if you don't like their practices. These days yo get free wi-fi everywhere and watching TV makes yo dumber anyways.They are selling products nobody needs.
15   NuttBoxer   2018 Dec 10, 9:31am  

Patrick says
Is is possible to get the government to work for the people?


Limited government yes. Local government, definitely. Behemoth central government, never.
16   🎂 Tenpoundbass   2018 Dec 10, 10:55am  

I cancel Cable it by canceling the debit card tied to the bill pay service.
17   🎂 Tenpoundbass   2018 Dec 10, 10:57am  

Also cut the cord outside coming into the house.
They can't bill you for service you didn't receive.

That's how you deal with the Zombie service where they try to bill you even after canceled.
18   RWSGFY   2018 Dec 10, 10:58am  

What do you mean "impossible to cancel"? It's a simple three-step process:

1) write an e-mail to Comcast and ask them to cancel your service on a certain date;
2) dispute a recurring transaction with you cc carrier stating that you've cancelled the service and revoke the authorisation to charge your cc.
3) (optional) go to your fridge and grab a bottle of cold beer.
19   Heraclitusstudent   2018 Dec 10, 11:49am  

DASKAA says
2) dispute a recurring transaction with you cc carrier stating that you've cancelled the service and revoke the authorisation to charge your cc.

Then spend years in legal litigation with "collection agencies" trying to get you.
20   Heraclitusstudent   2018 Dec 10, 11:52am  

Patrick says
@marcus What is your solution then?


A - go live in France. Express you anger in the street.
B - own a gun to reassure yourself. Don't struggle too much while they fleece you.
21   RWSGFY   2018 Dec 10, 12:05pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
DASKAA says
2) dispute a recurring transaction with you cc carrier stating that you've cancelled the service and revoke the authorisation to charge your cc.

Then spend years in legal litigation with "collection agencies" trying to get you.


Nope. I've cancelled multiple of "hard to cancel" services (food, wine, internet, phone) like this and didn't spend a single second in "legal litigation". The money involved are trivial for any kind of collection agency to get even remotely interested.

Besides, what kind of legal standing, say, ISP would have when asking to be paid for services you didn't de-facto receive? There is none.
22   Bd6r   2018 Dec 10, 12:07pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
A - go live in France. Express you anger in the street.

And accomplish nothing.

Heraclitusstudent says
B - own a gun to reassure yourself. Don't struggle too much while they fleece you.

And also accomplish nothing.
23   Ceffer   2018 Dec 10, 12:14pm  

Patrick says
Is is possible to get the government to work for the people?

Haven't read "The Dictator's Handbook" yet, huh?
24   Patrick   2018 Dec 10, 8:53pm  

Ceffer says
Haven't read "The Dictator's Handbook" yet, huh?


Had not heard of it @Ceffer Now it's on my reading list, thanks!
25   Patrick   2018 Dec 10, 8:55pm  

Tenpoundbass says
I cancel Cable it by canceling the debit card tied to the bill pay service.


Hey @Tenpoundbass I like this idea. Some monthly services like Comcast demand to be paid with a "credit card" but I be they'd take a debit card, where I can put in only as much money as I want to pay.

Is it hard to get multiple debit cards for that purpose?
26   Patrick   2018 Dec 10, 9:03pm  

DASKAA says
What do you mean "impossible to cancel"? It's a simple three-step process:

1) write an e-mail to Comcast and ask them to cancel your service on a certain date;
2) dispute a recurring transaction with you cc carrier stating that you've cancelled the service and revoke the authorisation to charge your cc.
3) (optional) go to your fridge and grab a bottle of cold beer.


Lol, what email address? Comcast does not give out any email address that they read.

I did write paper letters to both Comcast and my credit card, revoking permission to charge from both ends. Hopefully that will work.

I tried the "front door" but was told I needed to talk in person to a person from Comcast who will argue that I should not cancel. I got a voice mail today, but won't work all that hard at calling back. I'll give it 5 minutes top, and if that doesn't work, just rely on the letters I sent today.
27   GNL   2018 Dec 11, 6:11am  

Tenpoundbass says
I cancel Cable it by canceling the debit card tied to the bill pay service.

I did something similar. I had a direct deposit to a lender that I wanted to stop paying so I closed my bank account and moved to a different bank. The original bank kept opening my account back up and paying my lender and charged me overdraft fees. After fighting with the bank over the phone, I went into the bank lobby and yelled..."If I don't get my account closed right now and permanently, I'm calling the police". 3 bank people came running and fell all over themselves to take care of me. The bank manager put $100 in my hand with his business card and told me to call him personally if I had any further problems. The bank was Bank of America. Fuckers.
28   GNL   2018 Dec 11, 6:19am  

DASKAA says
What do you mean "impossible to cancel"? It's a simple three-step process:

1) write an e-mail to Comcast and ask them to cancel your service on a certain date;
2) dispute a recurring transaction with you cc carrier stating that you've cancelled the service and revoke the authorisation to charge your cc.
3) (optional) go to your fridge and grab a bottle of cold beer.

Step Pre-#1
Move
29   Bd6r   2018 Dec 11, 9:10am  

marcus says
Corporations are people.

My state should execute a few corporations. After that, they will not want to be people any more.
31   Shaman   2018 Dec 11, 2:02pm  

Patrick says
Had not heard of it @Ceffer Now it's on my reading list, thanks!


It’s an enlightening read! I got a referral for that one a year and a half ago on this very site and bought the audiobook.
32   Shaman   2018 Dec 11, 2:05pm  

WineHorror1 says
The original bank kept opening my account back up and paying my lender and charged me overdraft fees.


I ran into this also with a gym membership. Cancelled the card but kept getting new charges filed. Finally I reported the card stolen and that did the trick.
33   mell   2018 Dec 11, 4:14pm  

Patrick says
DASKAA says
What do you mean "impossible to cancel"? It's a simple three-step process:

1) write an e-mail to Comcast and ask them to cancel your service on a certain date;
2) dispute a recurring transaction with you cc carrier stating that you've cancelled the service and revoke the authorisation to charge your cc.
3) (optional) go to your fridge and grab a bottle of cold beer.


Lol, what email address? Comcast does not give out any email address that they read.

I did write paper letters to both Comcast and my credit card, revoking permission to charge from both ends. Hopefully that will work.

I tried the "front door" but was told I needed to talk in person to a person from Comcast who will argue that I should not cancel. I got a voice mail today, but won't work all that hard at calling back. I'll give it 5 minutes top, and if that doesn't work, just rely on the letters I sent today.


My experiences have been better. Canceling service was as easy as calling them and took less than 5 minutes. I think they have improved from previous years. But canceling via email I have not heard of either for Comcast. Most CC companies allow you to block vendors and recurring charges and end up 90% of the time on your side. Theoretically the vendor can still sue you outside of the CC realm, but they prob never do that for a small amount as it will cost them too much.

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