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Tesla as an Investment

By Patrick following x   2018 Dec 22, 8:42pm 5,461 views   295 comments   watch   nsfw   quote     share    


What do people think about Tesla (TSLA)?

It's over $300, with a loss of $10/share, but revenue just keeps going up. Hard to figure out what a fair price is since it doesn't make money yet.

How would you come up with a fair price per share?

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256   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 5, 10:35am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

clambo says
As a rule I would never buy stock in a company run by a egomaniacal drug using liar, now also an SEC reprobate.


And it's getting worse by the day for poor Elon..

China Blocks Model 3 Sales After Suspending Customs Clearance.

Tesla's awful start to 2019 is getting worse, with the latest bad news hitting the company in its most important "growth" market: China.

Chinese customs have suspended clearance procedures for Tesla's Model 3, according to Reuters which cites Chinese financial publication Caixin. The customs authority in Shanghai found "various irregularities" in 1,600 imported Model 3 vehicles, including improper labeling of the vehicles.

As a result, China has effectively put a block on Model 3 sales, telling Tesla not to sell or use Model 3 vehicles that have already been cleared in the country. Inspectors at ports in China have also been directed by authorities to "step up inspections" of other imported Tesla models and suspend their release if similar problems are uncovered.

This news comes after a sizable fall in Tesla's stock over the last two trading days, as the market continues to digest last Thursday's $35,000 Model 3 unveiling – and the subsequent news that the company blindsided retail employees and investors by their spur-of-the-moment decision to close all of its retail stores.

Investor Alex Chalekian, who manages more than $150 million, said on Twitter: "This was a total 180-degree turn. Tesla had been talking about expanding stores, and all of a sudden they are closing them. To me, this signals a huge financial concern and a possible cash-flow issue for Tesla."

It's not shaping up to be a great year for Tesla.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-05/china-blocks-tesla-model-3-sales-after-suspending-customs-clearance
257   AD   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 5, 10:48am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

(Bloomberg) -- Tesla Inc. shares continued a steep sell-off in the wake of Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk’s surprise move to close most of the electric-car maker’s stores and shift to online-only sales.

Many sales personnel first found out about the decision when Tesla published a public blog post Thursday afternoon, said three people familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing sensitive matters. A Barclays analyst cut his price target on the stock Tuesday, adding to a chorus of concerns raised by some investors also caught off guard.

Tesla declined to comment on the sales shift beyond Thursday’s blog post and an email Musk sent employees later that day. Representatives didn’t immediately respond Tuesday to inquiries about a Chinese media report that said Model 3 sedans are being held up by customs over labeling issues.

The stock has dropped as much as 16 percent since Thursday, shaving more than $8 billion from Tesla’s market capitalization. The shares traded down as much as 5.3 percent to $270.10 as of 10:40 a.m. Tuesday in New York, to the lowest intraday in more than four months.
258   RC2006   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 5, 11:24am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I wish Tesla success.
I just want a house off the electric grid with batteries no electric bill and charge a electric car so I don't have to buy gas without much to worry about.
259   AD   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 5, 11:48am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

RC2006 says
I wish Tesla success.
I just want a house off the electric grid with batteries no electric bill and charge a electric car so I don't have to buy gas without much to worry about.


https://www.homepower.com/

Create a free account to access past publications.
260   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 5, 7:23pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tesla Unexpectedly Fires Even More Workers As Top Shareholder Concedes Musk No Longer "Needs To Be CEO".

As if the layoffs of - well, everyone - at the retail level and closure of all of its brick and mortar stores were not enough of an indication that Tesla is a "growth company", this afternoon the news broke that the company is also laying off an additional 81 people from its Fremont factory in California.

Citing California Employment Development Department data, Mercury News reported that this brings the total number of layoffs at the Fremont factory to 883 this month. Additional data shows that the company is ditching four other positions in Lathrop, which brings the total number of cuts at that location to 141.

Filings from Tesla in late January indicated 1,017 job cuts at Fremont, Palo Alto and Lathrop.

The news also seems to be at direct odds with what Musk reportedly told the media on last week's secretive conference call, where the eccentric CEO stated the company could be "significantly increasing headcount in service technicians."

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-05/tesla-unexpectedly-fires-even-more-workers-top-shareholder-concedes-musk-no-longer

Hmmmm, why would such an awesome company with a awesome CEO that makes awesome EVs, be laying off MORE employees, slashing prices, closing retail stores and hiring MORE service techs? Why does such an awesome car require ANY service techs yet Mush is hiring MORE???

Inquiring minds want to know?

261   clambo   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 5, 7:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tesla is toast. I like that nutty Elon picture.
262   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 5, 7:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Gee, I never knew awesome CEOs of revolutionary car companies who are worth billions, need to take out over $50 million in mortgages to keep their companies open... hmmmm..

Elon Musk Turns to Morgan Stanley for Five Monster Mortgages

When it comes to cars, tunnels and rockets, Elon Musk thinks big. The same’s true for his household finances.

The billionaire recently took out $61 million in mortgages on five properties in California, four in the Bel Air neighborhood of Los Angeles and one in Hillsborough, in the Bay Area. The Morgan Stanley loans, signed in the final days of 2018, represent about $50 million in new borrowing. One refinancing on a 20,200-plus square-foot property he bought in 2012 for $17 million turned a $10 million loan into a $19.5 million debt.

His monthly payment: about $180,000.

The loans show how even the wealthiest people use mortgages to maintain liquidity.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-22/elon-musk-turns-to-morgan-stanley-for-five-monster-mortgages



Nah, nothing to see here.......
263   Rin   ignore (3)   2019 Mar 5, 7:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
In contrast, the EV is the fashion statement, the new designer shoe, etc, of the transportation world. Before EVs, ppl were driving ICEs like the Accord & the Camry, and then, during the run up of gas prices, hybrids like the Prius, filled some of the gaps in added fuel costs.


B.A.C.A.H. says
We have folks commuting in from far away, some who recently got the EV to "buy" their way into the HOV lane to make the commute less miserable. It can lead to anxiety about getting a charging spot which can be a distraction from the job.


From my Prius/Leaf thread ...

http://patrick.net/post/1322772/2019-03-01-rin-spoke-with-prius-owners-on-the-nissan-leaf

=====

kt1652 says
If an ev with 200 mile range gets reduced to 100 mile in winter as a worst case, it would still satisfy 95-98% of daily trips of metropolitan drivers, without charging top-off, what is the problem?


There is this concept of 'metering'. In a sense, what the ICE did was eliminate that from the way of life. So sure, if a person is highly conservative and only drives exactly to work and back, and leaves the vehicle on a plug overnight, then sure, EVs are "a way" to go. Here's the thing, what the ICE accomplished was that it eliminated this from the horse and buggy tech of pre-1900 where yes, the animals were high maintenance and couldn't gallop across the country without rest, eating, and crapping.

Today, a person is free to go, wherever he wants and whenever, even if a sudden road trip to see a friend/relative in another state comes up or running errands around various ex-burb towns which can easily chew up 70+ miles from out of the blue. When I used to drive a lot, I would make road trips between Boston, NYC, and Philly regularly. And the worst that would happen is that when I get off that highway, exit 4 on the NJ Turnpike, I would just refill at a Wawa's to continue on my journey. If it were an EV, I'd be somewhere stuck in Connecticut, battling it out with angry drivers at the charge stations. Sorry, but no thanks, I prefer to be free and independent.


B.A.C.A.H. says
may doom "ICE" car sales more than the new competition from EVs.


There's the used market for Corollas and Civics, under $8K, which can accommodate many ppl's budgets. I've seen original engines last up through 250K miles.
====
264   Rin   ignore (3)   2019 Mar 5, 7:59pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Right now, if I had the inkling, I could get on the road immediately, hit my 24 hour gas stop in Boston for an instant fill-up, drive down to Philly to visit a friend, and I wouldn't have to worry about re-fueling until I got there. That's true freedom on the road.
265   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 5, 8:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tesla stock slides to 4-month low as analysts question recent decisions, fret about cash burn

‘Something just doesn’t add up,’ says Morgan Stanley analyst, while Barclays slashes price target to among lowest on Wall Street.

Tesla Inc. stock extended losses Tuesday after more analysts joined the chorus of Tesla doubters and criticized the Silicon Valley car maker’s recent decisions.

Tesla TSLA, -3.09% shares fell 3.1% to close at their lowest since Oct. 22 and are down more than 13% in the past three sessions in the wake of company news that stoked demand fears. The stock fell by as much as 5.4% on Tuesday.

Adam Jonas at Morgan Stanley said in a note Tuesday that investor feedback on Tesla has been “firmly in the ‘something’s wrong’ camp rather than ‘this is a great buying opportunity’ camp.”

You can put us in the ‘something just doesn’t add up’ camp,” he said. Recent events “are communicating to investors a sense of growing tension in the organization.”

The new sales model is “uncharted territory” for Tesla, a company that used to highlight its advantages in promoting the brand and engaging with customers without a middleman, he said.

Brian Johnson at Barclays cut his price target on the stock by 9% to $192, representing 30% downside to Tuesday share prices.

The sooner-than-expected $35,000 Model 3 announcement, “rather than reflecting dramatic progress on manufacturing and distribution costs, likely reflects the need to replenish cash after the convert repayment, perhaps exacerbated by the weak first two months of U.S. sales,” the Barclays analysts said. Tesla made its biggest-ever bond payment on Friday on $920 million of convertible debt and likely used up nearly a quarter of its cash, as The Wall Street Journal reported.

Moreover, “gross margins will now be appreciably lower, and thus a significant amount of additional volume is needed to offset price cuts even considering the cost saves,” they said.

David Tamberrino at Goldman Sachs also raised concerns that a lower-priced Model 3 implies lower demand for the sedan’s pricier trims. It will “drive a downward mix impact for Model 3 margins,” he said in a note Friday.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tesla-stock-slides-another-4-as-analysts-question-recent-decisions-fret-about-cash-burn-2019-03-05

266   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 7, 9:21am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

"35 Pounds" Of Dirt Trapped In Tesla Model 3 Reveals Stunning Design Flaw

When one of the best known pro-Tesla blogs on the web says that the Model 3 has a substantial design flaw, it’s time to pay attention.

The "mass accessible" electric car, which become infamous for having its bumpers fall off, was found to have a design flaw in its underbody that causes the car to trap and retain dirt, water and sand from roadways, according to electrek, who this week published an article detailing the flaw.

The blog points out that Tesla has "often been accused of designing cars for the Californian climate" and that water, dirt and sand used to de-ice roads in colder climates are susceptible to getting trapped in the underbody of Model 3 cars.

And the reality check keeps on coming for electrek's editor, who has now learned - firsthand - about yet another problem with the Model 3 in cold climates.

Eric Bolduc, who owns a body shop in Quebec has "found significant amounts of sand and dirt accumulating in the underbody panel at the back of every Model 3 he has worked on so far."

This mechanic has worked on about 25 Model 3 vehicles and he says that he always finds about 10 to 20 pounds of sand and dirt stuck in the panel, due to what he believes is a lack of proper drainage. In one case, he extracted over 35 pounds of dirt from the underbody of a Model 3. He believes that the dirt is coming from behind one of the wheels.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-07/35-pounds-dirt-trapped-tesla-model-3-reveals-stunning-design-flaw

I wonder if this is any factor in the rear bumpers ripping off?



So, beside carrying around massive batteries, instead of a fuel load that lightens as you drive, you get to haul additional ballast. Nice!!

I wonder if you can use all that dirt to put out the future fire?
267   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 7, 10:08am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
Right now, if I had the inkling, I could get on the road immediately, hit my 24 hour gas stop in Boston for an instant fill-up, drive down to Philly to visit a friend, and I wouldn't have to worry about re-fueling until I got there. That's true freedom on the road.

"you" = anecdotal. If Rin can't bother with route planning or whatever EV inconveniences because his life is on the lower left quadrant of driving behavior, there is an alter-Rin who drives 200 miles a day in predominately warm climate region that will save a ton of fuel money and will love his EV. Just as important, the battery charge tech is catching up fast.
New V3 Superchargers let drivers fill up faster, 75 miles of charge in 5 minutes
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/07/tesla-debuts-new-v3-superchargers-to-let-drivers-fill-up-faster.html
Even 25% of the auto market = 20 million/year, that is exponential growth potential for EV.
Still trying to rationalize why nearly every EV owner loves his car and tesla has the highest loyalty of any brand, even beating Beemers, Audi's, Lexus? Here is some anecdotal thoughts, it seems every month, there are more new EV's competing for my workplace "free charge" spots.
268   theoakman   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 7, 10:17am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Face it...this car was a prototype that they touted as a car ready for market. They rushed it to the market and things like this are what happens when you do that.
269   socal2   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 7, 10:27am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

kt1652 says
Still trying to rationalize why nearly every EV owner loves his car and tesla has the highest loyalty of any brand, even beating Beemers, Audi's, Lexus?


This -

I simply can't imagine buying an ICE car in the future after just 2.5 months of driving an EV car. And my loyalty has nothing to do with being environmentally conscious or even saving hundreds a month in gas. It is simply a better driving experience compared to any other car I've owned or leased.

If Tesla truly goes tits up, all of these Tesla drivers are going to gravitate to the other automakers making EV cars. I don't see many of them going back to ICE cars.

IRT - Tesla. When was the last time a US car start-up churned out this many cars and had such high demand? Of course there is going to be scaling challenges to meet the growing demand. Most of the quality issues have been minor things like paint and body stuff. The core technology of Tesla (safety, motors, batteries, software) have been rock solid.
270   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 7, 10:28am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

theoakman says
Face it...this car was a prototype that they touted as a car ready for market. They rushed it to the market and things like this are what happens when you do that.
What car are you talking about? X, S, or 3?
If 3 than, data says it is the best selling luxury car of 2018.
Back your opinion or credentials. You can't be an authority on everything. lol
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/08/teslas-model-3-was-2018s-best-selling-luxury-car-in-us.html
TSLA is a volatile stock, carrying too excessive risk as my core holdings.
I may trade it's channel patterns, but if held for long term, daily fluct is noise.
Tesla has a reputation of reaching it's goals, even if late.
If you worked in SiliValley top tier techs, you'd understand why this is purposeful from Musk.
271   Hugolas_Madurez   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 7, 10:30am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

kt1652 says
Still trying to rationalize why nearly every EV owner loves his car and tesla has the highest loyalty of any brand, even beating Beemers, Audi's, Lexus?


Less need to interact with $tealers, probably?
272   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 7, 10:31am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Hugolas_Madurez says
kt1652 says
Still trying to rationalize why nearly every EV owner loves his car and tesla has the highest loyalty of any brand, even beating Beemers, Audi's, Lexus?


Less need to interact with $tealers, probably?

amen. Last new car "negotiation", I almost punched the closer. Never again.
273   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 7, 12:36pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

kt1652 says
Still trying to rationalize why nearly every EV owner loves his car and tesla has the highest loyalty of any brand, even beating Beemers, Audi's, Lexus?


Isn't that the same thing all the Apple fanboys said when they paid DOUBLE for their first iPod or iPad?

274   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 7, 12:38pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

socal2 says
Most of the quality issues have been minor things like paint and body stuff. The core technology of Tesla (safety, motors, batteries, software) have been rock solid.


So, getting incinerated by Autopilot is just a minor thing?
275   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 7, 1:17pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Oh my........................

Tesla Shares Slide On Reports Musk's Pentagon Security Clearance Under Review.

Another day, another headline about the CEO of Tesla has sent the carmaker's shares lower...

As Bloomberg reports, The Pentagon is reviewing Elon Musk’s federal security clearance following the billionaire’s marijuana toke on a California comedian’s podcast in September, according to a U.S. official.



Bloomberg details that Musk has refiled his SF-86 security form, which requires a federal employee or contractor seeking a clearance to acknowledge any illegal drug use over the previous seven years, according to the official, who asked not to be identified. The entrepreneur has a secret-level clearance because of his role as founder and CEO of Space Exploration Technologies Corp., which is certified to launch military spy satellites.

Elon Musk - ASSet or liability?

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-07/tesla-shares-slide-reports-musks-pentagon-security-clearance-under-review

Well, at least, the stock is showing great signs of stability and growth!! Just look at the one year chart...




Oh, wait....
276   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 7, 1:46pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrMagic says
socal2 says
Most of the quality issues have been minor things like paint and body stuff. The core technology of Tesla (safety, motors, batteries, software) have been rock solid.


So, getting incinerated by Autopilot is just a minor thing?
only minor point, no car under $100k can outperform any tesla's acceleration.
Name one ICE that upgrades w/ new function over the air. Take your swt time.
277   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 7, 1:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

True that I'm EV fanboy, just Tesla is tech leader w 5-7 year ahead of pack. G M could have don't it, but they sat on their complacent ass, after the Volt & Bolt. Maybe Hyundai will show right stuff.
278   SunnyvaleCA   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 7, 1:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrMagic says
Isn't that the same thing all the Apple fanboys said when they paid DOUBLE for their first iPod or iPad?

The original iPod with original box and other materials now sells for 10x the list price, so ... not the same thing. The original iPad, however, isn't worth much.
279   socal2   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 7, 2:07pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

It's funny reading all the Musk haters. If Tesla were to go bankrupt today, Musk already accomplished more in the auto industry than most of his peers. Let alone us internet armchair warriors. Tesla is setting the bar on the future of the auto industry. Not to mention the miracles Musk has achieved with SpaceX sending fucking rockets up into space cheaper and better than NASA, Russia and China.

If Musk was your standard Silicon Valley SJW - I can see why some in the zerohedge orbit would be all bent out of shape. But Musk has largely stayed out of goofy liberal identify politics and truly appears to be a hard worker unlike the majority of Silicon Valley billionaires living off past achievements.
280   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 7, 3:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

personal
281   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 7, 3:42pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

kt1652 says
only minor point, no car under $100k can outperform any tesla's acceleration.


I'm sure that acceleration is amazing while sitting in bumper to bumper traffic on the 405, right?

kt1652 says
Name one ICE that upgrades w/ new function over the air.


Yes, automatic upgrades are terrific. Ask any Windows user how well that's worked. At least when your computer crashes from a software glitch, it's just sitting on your desk. When your Tesla crashes due to a software glitch, you're incinerated...

How's that?
282   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 7, 3:50pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

socal2 says
If Tesla were to go bankrupt today,


....you'd have a $50K paperweight sitting in your driveway.

socal2 says
Tesla is setting the bar on the future of the auto industry.


I'm sure the dead people who died from Autopilot would agree with you.

socal2 says
Not to mention the miracles Musk has achieved with SpaceX sending fucking rockets up into space cheaper and better than NASA, Russia and China.


Yes, YOUR tax dollars at work. How much stock did Elon give you in SpaceX, since you paid for those rockets with your tax dollars.

socal2 says
But Musk has largely stayed out of goofy liberal identify politics


That's because he's so screwed up in the head already, he doesn't need any outside influence. Have you looked at the stock and SEC complaints recently?

socal2 says
and truly appears to be a hard worker unlike the majority of Silicon Valley billionaires living off past achievements.


If he's such a great businessman, why did he just recently re-mortgage 5 of his houses for over 50 MILLION to gain liquidity to finance operations?

Hmmmmmm.....????

283   Kakistocracy   ignore (6)   2019 Mar 7, 5:41pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tesla Reaches China Bank-Loan Agreement for Gigafactory

Tesla Inc. secured as much as $521 million in loans from Chinese banks to build a vehicle and battery factory in the country, putting the carmaker a step closer to producing Model 3 sedans at its first overseas plant.

The loans from China Construction Bank Corp., Agricultural Bank of China Ltd., Industrial & Commercial Bank of China Ltd. and Shanghai Pudong Development Bank Co. mature in March 2020, according to a regulatory filing. Tesla also amended a separate asset-backed credit agreement, increasing how much it can borrow by as much as $700 million.

Tesla rose as much as 2.3 percent after the close of regular trading. The shares were up 0.9 percent as of 5:05 p.m. Thursday in New York.

Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk estimated in January that Tesla will need roughly $500 million to get the plant built and production ramped up to 3,000 Model 3s a week. The total cost will be higher, and the company had said it planned to tap local banks for a majority of the funding.

The fresh borrowing follows Tesla’s largest-ever debt payment last week. Settling the $920 million convertible bond that matured March 1 taxed the company’s balance sheet, which had about $3.7 billion in cash and equivalents at year-end.

After years of negotiations with Chinese authorities to become the first foreign automaker to wholly own a manufacturing facility in the country, Tesla broke ground on the outskirts of Shanghai on Jan. 7. Musk has said the company plans to start battery and Model 3 production at the factory by the end of the year.

Tesla can now do so by borrowing at favorable rates. The yuan-denominated loans accrue interest at a rate equal to 90 percent of the one-year rate published by the People’s Bank of China. For dollar-denominated loans, the rate is 1 percent more than Libor.

Beginning local production in China is key for Tesla to reduce the costs of its cars in what is the world’s largest market for electric vehicles. Battery-powered autos have been a rare bright spot amid the broader market’s slowdown. Local manufacturing also will help the company sidestep any re-escalation of trade tensions between the U.S. and China.

In its filing, Tesla said it amended and restated its asset-backed loan credit agreement to increase the total lender commitments by $500 million to about $2.4 billion. The pact also permits the company to obtain up to $200 million in additional commitments, and extend the term of most of the total commitments to 2023.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-07/tesla-is-said-to-reach-china-bank-loan-agreement-for-gigafactory?srnd=premium
284   theoakman   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 7, 8:09pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

kt1652 says
theoakman says
Face it...this car was a prototype that they touted as a car ready for market. They rushed it to the market and things like this are what happens when you do that.
What car are you talking about? X, S, or 3?
If 3 than, data says it is the best selling luxury car of 2018.
Back your opinion or credentials. You can't be an authority on everything. lol
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/08/teslas-model-3-was-2018s-best-selling-luxury-car-in-us.html
TSLA is a volatile stock, carrying too excessive risk as my core holdings.
I may trade it's channel patterns, but if held for long term, daily fluct is noise.
Tesla has a reputation of reaching it's goals, even if late.
If

Haha, did you just claim not meeting deadlines is still meeting the goal? By your measure, no company has ever missed it's goals as long as they are fashionably late.
285   theoakman   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 7, 8:10pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrMagic says
only minor point, no car under $100k can outperform any tesla's acceleration.


I took an 88 mustang, ran a turbo in it and boosted the pressure to 40 psi. Dyno'd at 750 hp. Easily faster. And it cost me under 10k.
286   theoakman   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 7, 8:12pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrMagic says
kt1652 says
Still trying to rationalize why nearly every EV owner loves his car and tesla has the highest loyalty of any brand, even beating Beemers, Audi's, Lexus?


Isn't that the same thing all the Apple fanboys said when they paid DOUBLE for their first iPod or iPad?



I bought my first ipod when they came out. I believe it was $400. I figured I would be using it for a goo 4 to 5 years. It lasted 4 weeks before it stopped working. Worst purchase I ever made.
287   Rin   ignore (3)   2019 Mar 7, 9:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

kt1652 says
"you" = anecdotal. If Rin can't bother with route planning or whatever EV inconveniences because his life is on the lower left quadrant of driving behavior,


Actually, in my case, I'd just expense a flight to Philly, a mere ~$400, even at the ticket counter at Boston's Logan without the 1-2 weeks of planning ahead to get a $200 savings. Once you factor in the taxi-ing on the ground, the flight time is only 40 mins. And I get livery service anywhere I want with my firm. I don't need to drive at all.

kt1652 says
there is an alter-Rin who drives 200 miles a day in predominately warm climate region


Likewise, that alt-Rin would fly between San Diego, LA, Vegas, & Phoenix and get a rental in any of those towns. And yes, if that rental happens to be an EV then sure, it would make for a fun joyride, provided that the hotel had a charging station.

Basically, what Rin is ... is a businessman. He's too much of a jet-setter to care for the minutiae of the latest car fads. He's in motion and part of that is not scoping the landscape for charging stations. It's more like seeking the best sushi a/o oyster bar to take a client out for dinner.
288   E-man   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 7, 11:46pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

kt1652 says
@E-man , can't find your post to quote.
Shorts are unethical. They typically spread false rumors, pump down a stock & dump.
You hate, so you short TSLA?
Join your leaders, Soros, Chanos..termites.
Hope you get burned. I can hold forever.


@kt1652,

I don’t know where you read it. You must have gotten the wrong guy. How can you find something that doesn’t exist?

I’m a huge fan of Tesla and an owner of a Model S 75D. Waiting for the reveal of Model Y on 3/14. If I like it, I’ll buy it for my wife. If not, I am getting a Model X 100D or a Model 3 LR. I don’t short Tesla. In fact, I’m waiting for an entry point. I’m thinking $250-$260 range is a great entry point.
289   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 8, 12:08am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

kt1652 says
Shorts are unethical. They typically spread false rumors, pump down a stock & dump.


Shorts [sic] are unethical. Haha, smh
290   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 8, 1:07am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

E-man, I found your post. You said:
"It's ironic to see our own folks wanting our own American company to fail especially the loser short sellers on seeking alpha. They couldn't invent or create anything positive to contribute to the society. They want to benefit based on someone else's failure. What a bunch of losers."

That's what I was referencing. I agree with you!
(There is some strangeness wrt searching your post history...just saying.)
291   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 8, 1:15am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CBOEtrader says
kt1652 says
Shorts are unethical. They typically spread false rumors, pump down a stock & dump.


Shorts [sic] are unethical. Haha, smh

Grammar nazi? Shorts for short seller.
Did you spend your career cramming words in Excel boxes?
Did you ever dictate quick replies via android while driving home?
292   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 8, 6:22am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

kt1652 says
Grammar nazi? Shorts for short seller.


Right over your precious little head.

I'm laughing at you classifying shorts [sic] as unethical.

But yes, the sic is there to point out the ambiguous use of made-up terms.

Both suggest you are far outside your lane, perhaps you should refrain in judging risk takers as unethical.
293   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 8, 10:13am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Peloton said it has already signed truck platooning deals with a number of fleets in North America. Commercial deployment of the Peloton platooning system is expected to occur by the end of this year.

Truck platooning lowers fuel consumption and CO2 emissions. Given that trucks can drive closer together, the air-drag friction is reduced significantly. ... Truck platooning helps to improve safety. The technology for platooning with trucks of the same brand (so-called ‘mono-brand platooning’) is already available. By 2023, it should be possible to drive across Europe on motorways crossing national borders with multi-brand platoons., without needing any specific exemptions. – ACEA European Automotive Manufacturers Association.
All the smart states have enabled legislation for the technology.
https://enterpriseiotinsights.com/20180821/connected-cars-2/nine-us-states-already-approved-full-truck-platooning-study
The U.S. Army plans to deploy dozens of autonomous trucks next year, far ahead of its original time frame.
The military is pushing ahead with autonomous vehicle development at the same time the civilian trucking industry is adopting similar technology. Commercial truck firms, for example, are testing a different type of platooning where digitally tethered trucks of three or more follow each other closely, typically 40 feet. Digital communications and automatic emergency braking reduce wind drag and improve fuel efficiency.
https://www.trucks.com/2018/09/26/us-army-deploying-autonomous-trucks/


294   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 18, 8:20pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Oh my, not again...

"A Modified Ponzi Scheme": 78% Of Tesla Operating Cash Flow Has Come From Customer Deposits.

An impressive, 46-page Value Investor Club write-up on Tesla was published by user jcoviedo on Monday and promptly leaked thereafter, which - not surprisingly - pitched a short thesis which sees the stock price first dropping to Musk's margin call level of roughly $200/share, after which a "massive reset" as core investors dump, sends it below $50 share.

There was one striking observation that goes to the heart of Tesla's biggest weakness: its liquidity, and specifically that Tesla is nothing more than a deposit-churning Ponzi scheme, that only keeps its light on thanks to gullible buyers who front the cost of production of the next model, and the next, and so on. Here is the passage in question:

Tesla is in effect a modified Ponzi scheme. Throughout its history, the company has financed its operations by announcing a new product (originally the roadster, then the Model S, the Model X, the Model 3, the Semi, the roadster 2, and now the Model Y as well as the vaporware full self driving package) and then taking deposits for the product before it has ever designed a production system for the product.

The company then spends the deposits on operating expenses and the capital expenses to manufacture the original product. When the company is close to running out of funds, the company announces a new product and takes deposits on it in order to finish the production of the first product. Since 2008, 78% of TSLA's cash flow from operations has come from customer deposits!

While it is debatable whether this practice is legal or not, there it one thing it clearly isn't, especially in the long run: Sustainable.

And Musk know it. As the report's author points out, "unlike a bank, Tesla does not segregate customer deposits and in reality customer depositors are just unsecured creditors of the company.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-18/modified-ponzi-scheme-2008-78-tesla-operating-cash-flow-has-come-customer-deposits

Oh, and for those of you looking to plink down a deposit on a Model Y (just a reskinned Model 3), the $2500 is NOT a deposit, it just holds a place in line.

Good luck with that.
295   AD   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 18, 8:33pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Yes Patrick, Tesla is down to about $269 and not far from its 52 week low of $244.

GuruFocus.com has rated it steady with 4 out of 10 for financial strength, and has increased its profitability score to 6 out of 10.

Tesla Model 3 may save the company.

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