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1   marcus   2019 Jan 22, 8:13am  

Above $10 million, above $1million.

$10 million, $1million. Same thing
2   NuttBoxer   2019 Jan 22, 10:53am  

Seriously man? You're gonna nitpick numbers instead of thinking big picture? Do the rich ever pay their allotted percentage regardless of what it is? Will the rich and business's pull out and go to friendlier countries? That's all that matters. And in a country that's been teetering on the brink of another collapse for 10 years, how much business will they have to lose to fall over the cliff? Not much..
3   🎂 Tenpoundbass   2019 Jan 22, 10:54am  

Liberals aren't worthy to request any taxes from American people. They are nothing more than despicable dangerous Communist Morons, that don't have one single plan of action that would do anyone any good. They are self serving useless sorry sons of bitches the whole fucking lot of them.

More Tax cuts Mr. President the Assholes don't grasp the gravity of this situation they created.
4   GNL   2019 Jan 22, 10:57am  

How about tax increases over XXX AND eliminate SNAP and all welfare? If people can't find a j.o.b, government can hire them to sweep and pick up trash in the nearest ghetto. AND go protect the border.
5   Ceffer   2019 Jan 22, 11:57am  

"All Billionaires should be taxed! That's too many zeros! They should only have three zeros, like millionaires!"
6   REpro   2019 Jan 22, 1:16pm  

Hollande just use 75% tax to get voters. Never implement it.

The tax rates in France in 2018 (for income earned in 2017) are as follow:
Up to €9,807: 0%
€9,807–27,086: 14%
€27,086–72,617: 30%
€72,617–153,783: 41%
€153,783+: 45%
Dec 2, 2018
7   marcus   2019 Jan 22, 1:39pm  

NuttBoxer says
You're gonna nitpick numbers


Since when is noticing a difference of a factor of 10 nitpicking ?

Supposedly, 45% of republicans even think t's a good idea.

As for fear of people leaving becasue of taxes rate on income over $10 million ? Nahhh. If they don't think they should have to pay it, they can find a way, to shelter it, EASILY. Many others will think it's fair just and pay it.

It's a win win. Although also mostly symbolic. Kind of trivial really.
8   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Jan 22, 2:36pm  

REpro says
€153,783+: 45%
Dec 2, 2018

China also has a maximal tax rate of 45%.
9   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Jan 22, 2:37pm  

Though I'm fairly certain some 25% of you paycheck in France is collected through fees and 'charges' even before you get to pay the tax on revenue.
So here you go.
And this had nothing to do with Hollande either. Taxes in France were always high.
10   NuttBoxer   2019 Jan 23, 11:11am  

REpro says
Hollande just use 75% tax to get voters. Never implement it.

The tax rates in France in 2018 (for income earned in 2017) are as follow:
Up to €9,807: 0%
€9,807–27,086: 14%
€27,086–72,617: 30%
€72,617–153,783: 41%
€153,783+: 45%
Dec 2, 2018


So explain the economic collapse that ensued, the Yellow Vest protests that are going on now, and the fact that French pay more taxes than any other country in Europe.
11   Ceffer   2019 Jan 23, 11:12am  

Ocasio-Cortez has proposed a tax cut for people with no money. What a saint.
12   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Jan 23, 11:20am  

NuttBoxer says
So explain the economic collapse that ensued, the Yellow Vest protests that are going on now, and the fact that French pay more taxes than any other country in Europe.

There is no collapse: France economy continues to grow at a snail pace.
The french governments continues to do "reforms" to liberalize the economy. In Macron's case mostly on the labor rights.
In the meantime, they try to close the deficit by increasing taxes. Hence the yellow vests.
13   REpro   2019 Jan 29, 6:29pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
NuttBoxer says
So explain the economic collapse that ensued, the Yellow Vest protests that are going on now, and the fact that French pay more taxes than any other country in Europe.

There is no collapse: France economy continues to grow at a snail pace.
The french governments continues to do "reforms" to liberalize the economy. In Macron's case mostly on the labor rights.
In the meantime, they try to close the deficit by increasing taxes. Hence the yellow vests.


Tax table do not represent all taxes and fees people in France pay, just like us. For example they have VAT, they pay tax on top of apartment rent. Than in Europe gasoline prices have at least 50% of taxes attached.

Interesting is, the additional tax to gas start yellow vests movement. Why Macron was adding this tax, well because he was looking for financing France part of GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE Paris Agreement, from which Trump made smart move and withdraw avoiding to pay $2.6 billion of its costs pledge by Obama. Now Europa is looking to close this huge gap on they own. For instance Germany raised electricity costs tax for residents.
15   HeadSet   2019 Jan 29, 7:33pm  

As for fear of people leaving becasue of taxes rate on income over $10 million ? Nahhh. If they don't think they should have to pay it, they can find a way, to shelter it, EASILY. Many others will think it's fair just and pay it.

If they can shelter it, it is not taxed. And the people who think it is "fair" have a limit. That is, one may not try to shelter income at a 35% rate, but will shelter income if the rate is 60%. That will result in less actual tax revenue collected, as 35% of X beats 60% of nothing.

What about taxing wealth instead of income? Taxing wealth would be a great way to fund cops and military. After all, if you have lots of wealth, the cops and military are protecting your assets more than someone who has less to lose.
16   Patrick   2019 Jan 29, 7:36pm  

I was talking to a French woman recently, and asked her about the origin of the protests in France. Her take was that Macron had cut the wealth tax in France (maybe the one implemented by Holland?) and made up for it by taxing the poor via diesel.

I had asked a French guy recently too, and he thought it was because of Macron promising to cut their social security taxes and maintaining benefits, but failing on both accounts.

Anyway, it does seem to have a lot to do with the perception of an unfair tax system in France.
17   REpro   2019 Jan 29, 8:29pm  

What about legislation instead of taxes for rich. The goal is to make very rich people to share they wealth and reduce inequalities.
Instead of taxing them, where government will take money and blow it out, pursue a legislation forcing companies to pay more employee by limiting earnings for CEO and Directors.
That would be win-win. Once Switzerland tried to do it.
18   NuttBoxer   2019 Feb 5, 11:44am  

REpro says
That would be win-win. Once Switzerland tried to do it.


Or another reason for companies to take their business elsewhere. Let's see, I can make 10 billion a year in Chile, or 1 billion a year in the US, where should I found my company...
19   NuttBoxer   2019 Feb 5, 11:45am  

Heraclitusstudent says
There is no collapse: France economy continues to grow at a snail pace.
The french governments continues to do "reforms" to liberalize the economy. In Macron's case mostly on the labor rights.
In the meantime, they try to close the deficit by increasing taxes. Hence the yellow vests.


So France is your idea of a stable government working for the people? Funny, the French don't share your sentiment...
20   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Feb 5, 11:51am  

NuttBoxer says
So France is your idea of a stable government working for the people? Funny, the French don't share your sentiment...


You guys are so confused...
Do you want less taxes? Less government? Then you are on the side of Macron: he is a neo liberal that dreams of cutting the size of the government. The yellow vests are leftists who want the opposite: generous welfare for poor people, AND they also want to tax rich people like crazy.

However you put it, France is not in the same position as the US, and the direction that makes sense in France is not the one that makes sense in the US.
21   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Feb 5, 11:54am  

REpro says
Why Macron was adding this tax, well because he was looking for financing France part of GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE Paris Agreement

It's a pretext.
He increased taxes because the government is desperate to reduce France twin deficits, and fighting global warming happens to be something French people agree with.
Also it was never about financing anything: just penalizing people who drive a lot.

https://www.ft.com/content/53ef664c-30d6-11e8-b5bf-23cb17fd1498
22   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Feb 5, 11:59am  

Part of the problem here is that Americans see socialism and liberalism as the same thing.

You see the difference in France: Macron is a liberal, Yellow vests are socialists/communists.
23   MisdemeanorRebel   2019 Feb 5, 12:30pm  

I find it interesting in France that the Establishment, which is an alliance of Liberals and Socialists, still have time to whine about a knife wielding terrorist being shot in the Middle East, while imposing great brutality on largely peaceful protesters back in France.
24   SunnyvaleCA   2019 Feb 5, 1:22pm  

If you want to collect more tax from the rich, do away with tax-exempt giving to charities, religion, and foundations. For example, the vast majority of Bill Gate's stock profits will never be taxed at all because the Gates Foundation is tax exempt.
25   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Feb 5, 2:46pm  

SunnyvaleCA says
If you want to collect more tax from the rich, do away with tax-exempt giving to charities, religion, and foundations. For example, the vast majority of Bill Gate's stock profits will never be taxed at all because the Gates Foundation is tax exempt.

If rich people were giving most of what they have within a few years - even 10 yrs - no one would speak of taxing the rich.
But they aren't.
And so the problem is not what they spend, but what they don't spend.
Money should circulate, not be accumulated.
26   NuttBoxer   2019 Feb 6, 12:02pm  

OccasionalCortex says
Yes, they do. Just like you do. According to the law, that is.


Seriously? Off-shore holding, secret bank accounts, lawyers to find loopholes.
27   HeadSet   2019 Feb 6, 12:27pm  

do away with tax-exempt giving to charities,

+1000

Especially since this deduction is highly abused. Donate used underwear or beat up furniture and deduct far more that what that trash is worth.
28   Hircus   2019 Feb 6, 1:38pm  

marcus says


I agree. People should only care about what's best for themselves. Thinking about what's right, just, and best for society is silly. I hope others will join me in my quest to steal money from those richer than me.
29   Hircus   2019 Feb 6, 2:12pm  

Heraclitusstudent says

SunnyvaleCA says

And so the problem is not what they spend, but what they don't spend.

Money should circulate, not be accumulated.


I'm under the impression that most rich people have their money invested. Does that not circulate the money? I think most investments basically give money to other people, who then use the money for various things. Capital investment into new businesses seems pretty good for society.

I don't claim to know how valuable to the economy and society a dollar is when spent by a typical citizen vs spent by a typical rich person is, but I suspect there's a non-trivial difference and an ideal balance. For example, capital investment into private space programs like Spacex, Blue Origin, and Virgin have dramatically reduced the cost of space access, which seems like it could really pay off and do great things for humanity in the near future. I don't think these are typical cases, but cases like these do make me question the narrative that "rich people having money is bad". If anyone has anything to say that might help quantify the value of a "rich person dollar" vs a "middle class dollar", I'd love to hear it.
30   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Feb 6, 2:47pm  

Hircus says
I'm under the impression that most rich people have their money invested. Does that not circulate the money?


If you think it is the same: give me all your money, I will lend it back to you at interests.
No difference, right?
31   HeadSet   2019 Feb 6, 2:49pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
Hircus says
I'm under the impression that most rich people have their money invested. Does that not circulate the money?


If you think it is the same: give me all your money, I will lend it back to you at interests.
No difference, right?


Uh, no. I lend you my money, you pay me interest. To afford that payment, you invest that money at a higher return than you pay me.
32   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Feb 6, 2:57pm  

The pool of capital chasing returns is ridiculously large, to the point where many government bonds have negative yields.

Private space programs like Spacex are long term stuff with no returns in the foreseeable future. I guess you could call that a charitable way to spend money. This is not an investment. This brings me back to my point: either rich people should spend most of what they have on charity or luxury or <>, or they should be taxed more.
33   MrMagic   2019 Feb 6, 3:02pm  

SunnyvaleCA says
If you want to collect more tax from the rich, do away with tax-exempt giving to charities, religion, and foundations. For example, the vast majority of Bill Gate's stock profits will never be taxed at all because the Gates Foundation is tax exempt.


Or in the case of Bill and Hillary, who give 1 million to the Clinton Foundation, and take the writeoff, then travel around the world on the Clinton Foundation's dime, saving themselves hundreds of thousands out of pocket.
34   MrMagic   2019 Feb 6, 3:05pm  

OccasionalCortex says
As a percentage of tax revenue, the 'rich' pay waaay more than everyone else. In fact, they carry the freight.


The rich pay waaayy more DOLLARS then anyone else. We need to get off this "percentage" bullshit, because it's meaningless. The spending in the country is paid in DOLLARS not in PERCENTAGES, and the Rich pay the bulk of those dollars into the system, give it up with the crying about who pays a higher percentage:

35   MrMagic   2019 Feb 6, 3:11pm  

Hircus says
I'm under the impression that most rich people have their money invested. Does that not circulate the money?


Another fallacy, that the rich don't spend any money and their money isn't circulated in the economy. Where does this crazy come from??

Let’s take a look at how the average American spends their paycheck. In 2013, the average American household earned about $63,000 and thus had about $51,000 to spend after taxes, according to this data. They spent like this:

$9,004 was spent on transportation.
$6,602 was spent on food, of which $3,977 was spent on food at home and $2,625 was spent eating out.
$5,528 was spent on insurance and pensions.
$1,604 was spent on apparel.
$2,482 was spent on entertainment.
$17,148 was spent on housing.
$1,834 was spent on cash contributions.
$3,631 was spent on health care.
The remaining $3,267 was spent in other areas.

Now, let’s assume that someone brings home $1 million per year lived by the exact same percentage budget as the average American. Here’s how that person would spend their money.

$176,000 was spent on transportation.
$129,000 was spent on food, of which $78,000 was spent on food at home and $51,000 was spent eating out.
$108,000 was spent on insurance and pensions.
$31,000 was spent on apparel.
$49,000 was spent on entertainment.
$336,000 was spent on housing.
$36,000 was spent on cash contributions.
$71,000 was spent on healthcare.
The remaining $64,000 was spent in other areas.

That’s how a person bringing home a million bucks a year would spend their money if they subscribed to the exact same budget as the average American. A person prioritizing their spending like that is prioritizing in the exact same way the average American is, just with a bigger income to spend.

https://www.thesimpledollar.com/the-rich-man-the-average-budget-and-you/
36   MrMagic   2019 Feb 6, 3:35pm  

Hircus says
If anyone has anything to say that might help quantify the value of a "rich person dollar" vs a "middle class dollar", I'd love to hear it.


A rich person circulates a lot MORE of their dollars into the economy and federal government, which everyone benefits from.

37   anonymous   2019 Feb 6, 4:43pm  

Fox News Hosts Are Horrified to Learn Their Own Polls Show People Want to Tax the Rich...

Ever since Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez reminded people that the top tax bracket in this country used to be as high as 70 percent for decades—a period during which there was still economic growth and rich people—more and more polls are showing that Americans across the political spectrum are in favor of returning to that norm.

It turns out that even Fox News can't find a way to hijack those numbers. The network's own polls, conducted at the end of January, found a staggering 70 percent of respondents supported raising taxes on annual income over $10 million. In fact, 65 percent were down for raising taxes on those making over $1 million per year.

On Tuesday, a pair of baffled anchors referred to this trend as a movement "against capitalism." It is a dubious assertion, because by that definition the U.S. has only been a capitalist country since the 1980s, when Reagan knocked the top tax rate even lower and conservatives convinced enough legislators that "a rising tide lifts all boats" was a substitute for economic policy. But in their efforts to find an explanation for why so many people are turned off by unfettered, unregulated, and unaccountable capitalism, they turn to Charles Payne of Fox Business. His explanation: Schools have brainwashed kids with lessons about "fairness."

https://www.gq.com/story/fox-news-tax-poll-fairness
38   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Feb 6, 4:52pm  

Yeah... over $150K is really RICH.
How about over $1 million?

MrMagic says
39   MrMagic   2019 Feb 6, 5:04pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
Yeah... over $150K is really RICH.
How about over $1 million?


Did you miss my post above that one?

I have glasses if you need them.
40   FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut   2019 Feb 6, 5:06pm  

My friend, most Americans are too pussified to revolt against taxation.

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