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1   Tenpoundbass   2019 Feb 16, 10:25am  

The Fuck It DON'T!

I would never send my kids to a Liberal college.

This is a true fucking story.

My Brother who has had dual careers most of his adult life. One in Law Enforcement, and just made Full Bird Col. in the Army reserves.
He used to ride my ass every time we would get together over the holidays. "Hey have you set aside a College fund for your daughters yet.?"
I would tell him no, at 17 years old there's no way in hell they will know what they want to be for the rest of their lives. And I'll be damned if I'll have them go in debt or spend 10's or even 100's thousands of dollars in an Education that will get squandered. (This was before we now know our higher Education system is a Commie Education Camp to condition young adults to be heartless worthless Rainbow color hair scumbags. That hates and disrespects all Boomers, but are controlled like Marionette puppets by Old Commie Jewish Fags, that tells them who to hate selectively depending on the Election at hand. But I digress).

He would tell me, "I'm telling Ya! You're making a huge mistake, a good college education is the most important thing you can give them." He would always bring this up then a condescending lecture, our kids weren't even 10 yet. I told him, my hope would be they would go get knocked around in the real world working shitty jobs from 17 to 21 then realize how bad that sucks. Then they would appreciate the value of picking a career they would be willing to stick with. My one daughter at 17 fancied working in Law enforcement or corrections officer. Because that's just the same pathetic shit people at that age especially girls were saying. Their Faggy teachers sold them on the idea somehow. I guess they didn't think they could code.
Fast forward today, we now see many of those same girls that went down that career trap. Getting arrested themselves, because not only did they find a career in Law enforcement or Corrections, they found true love and got played like a cheap kazoo to either help a convict escape or got caught bringing them contraband.
That was not the life I wanted for my daughter, and had I saved up for college and pushed the issue at 17 or 18 that could have been my youngest daughter you read about in the news getting busted for fraternizing with inmates.

So what ended up happening is exactly what I planned. About 20 and 21 they both came to me and said they want to program, because they see it provides well for me.
One of them still had a full scholarship from her graduation that hadn't expired. So she took them up on it. The other one works as a Hostess at a popular Beach Restaurant and saves up her money and pays for her own courses. The oldest just graduated with her Bachelors degree in Computer Science engineering. The youngest is on her second year for her associates then she starts taking the Computer courses for her Bachelors. She pays for her own classes and refuses to take help from us. When we help her pay a course. She pays it all back. The oldest that graduated this year, already has a $65K year job. She interned there for about Year and half. When she graduated, we were both surprised at the generous offer they made her to stay. They really like her work and what she brings to the team. She now wants to go on and get a Doctorate in Computer Science.

So now back to the point about my brother was making early on way back when our kids were way to young to be trifling ourselves over their College choice and career selection.

He sent his kids to Universities and paid a shit ton of his own money on them.
He called last week, he was lamenting how they resent him for his support of Donald Trump. They hate Donald Trump and are disrespectful to him and his wife.
He asked me if my daughters are like that. I said no they voted for Donald Trump. They didn't go to a Liberal University, and they took time to develop their own Adult minds before some Liberal Commie polluted their minds. My daughters don't have blue and green hair.

He laughed and said Well Played.
2   B.A.C.A.H.   2019 Feb 16, 1:34pm  

Hey Ceff,

Are you a parent?

Just asking.
3   theoakman   2019 Feb 16, 1:45pm  

It doesn't matter where you go to school if you are a self motivated talented individual. Kids that are not at the high end of the bell curve need a piece of paper from an Ivy League institution as an easy way to a lucrative job. Most people would benefit, not from the education, but from the stigma that they actually accomplished something.
4   Ceffer   2019 Feb 16, 1:53pm  

B.A.C.A.H. says
Are you a parent?


I have to date not received any subpoenas.
5   SunnyvaleCA   2019 Feb 16, 2:04pm  

Ceffer says
One of the unpleasant insights of kids who DO manage to go to coveted Ivies through 'merit' is that their merit just entitles them to keep working hard under much more competitive circumstances

I fit that bill with respect to school admissions (although I went to Stanford instead). If you get in on merit alone, you're already in the top 50% of the school and probably already have a year of AP credit. Graduating in 4 years should be easy; I got 2 degrees in my 4 years, including the fairly long and difficult computer science undergraduate degree.

As far as the "it doesn't matter where you go to school" part, I'd say that it's worth going to the top schools because it demonstrates to future employers that, at least by one metric, you were among the best in the country. (i.e.: you were among the best at applying to school) The 2nd and 3rd tier schools don't really cost any less, so employers will assume you went to one of those because you couldn't get into one of the 1st tier.

It's generally illegal to use IQ tests when hiring in the USA (except for government hiring — government exempts itself of course). College admissions is the closest legal thing to an IQ test for those getting in on merit.
6   SunnyvaleCA   2019 Feb 16, 2:15pm  

Ceffer says
undergraduate deans at Stanford. His wife used to be a counselor. She flat stated that at least half of the undergraduates are on anti-depressants

Yeah, and half the undergraduates are having a hard time adjusting academically. In related news, half the students don't get in on merit.
7   Ceffer   2019 Feb 16, 2:17pm  

There was a guy who wrote a book about getting into Stanford Business School a few years ago. He was a political go-getter, got in on recs, but generally felt outclassed by the true quants there and he struggled to keep up. He said that a lot of the graduates got placed in very high paying jobs, albeit only for very short periods of time, after graduation, almost like the quickie post graduation placements were for the purpose of enhancing the degrees' reputation but the sheen didn't necessarily last for particular individuals past a brief glamor stage. He seemed to feel that after a few years out, the luster of the degree didn't make as much difference as it was made out to be. He said one of his fellow students was already a multi-millionaire from Wall Street, and just kind of skated through and went back to continue being wildly successful with or without the Stanford business degree.
I know that after a short period, nobody has ever asked me where my degrees came from. You basically have to wear it on your shirt sleeve and flog it in people's faces if you want them to acknowledge it (perhaps discretely so that it doesn't appear too crass, like BRAGGING). I have another relative with UC Berkeley and Harvard degrees, and he seems kind of locked in a CFO merry go round and has spent long periods of time without employment.
There is a reason that Universities like to give out un-earned honorary degrees. It is easier to hitch their wagons to the 'already successful' rather than trying to coin 'newly successful no matter what because of institutional reputation'.
8   SunnyvaleCA   2019 Feb 16, 2:29pm  

Ceffer says
I know that after a short period, nobody has ever asked me where my degrees came from.

That's true in my situation also. However, I started employment in the early 1990s during a silicon valley downturn. The fancy degree meant I was invited to every single job interview for which I applied. Even now I still get cold calls from Google and Facebook recruiters; I assume it is partly based on having a CS degree from Stanford.

The Stanford Business School you mention is quite small and so is the ultimate trophy for people getting in on merit. Those graduates will leap past the first few years of grunge work in the field. Without the trophy you start at $75k and finally reach $250k after 10 years busting your butt and 3 jobs changes. With the trophy you start immediately at $200k.
9   Ceffer   2019 Feb 16, 2:44pm  

There was a strange period of time there in the later 90's, before the Great Tech Bust when it was hard to hire people for a business in the Bay Area because any warm body with a pulse could go to Silicon Valley and get high paying jobs with benefits out of the chute. I knew older guys in my profession (pretty good pay in it's own right) who decided to change fields and hire to management positions in start ups because they said a lot of the companies were desperate for employees with a reasonably mature outlook because all the college brats were obnoxious and literally believed that they should be multi-millionaires before they were 30 to retire, travel, and club for the rest of their lives. Everybody was gonna be Bill Gates. They would interview kids on TV who were utterly spoiled and expectant of absolute, instant net success.
10   kt1652   2019 Feb 16, 2:51pm  

My son was accepted into UC Davis, but Stanford rejetted him. He was depressed for a few weeks, but I was very happy, but had to hide my true feelings. I told him, if you go out of state, or a private school, I'll still only pay the equivalent of UC costs - (you come up with the difference yourself).
11   Ceffer   2019 Feb 16, 2:52pm  

I know UC has changed over the years, but my relatives who went to UC Davis loved it in the day. I think at least then it provided a better experience than Berkeley or UCLA.

Stanford will change their diapers more often, though, and UC will always require a scrambler.
12   kt1652   2019 Feb 16, 2:58pm  

UCD - Great school. Found a job quickly. He loved it. No regrets.
13   FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut   2019 Feb 16, 2:58pm  

Best way for kids to be conservative is to pay through life their way instead of getting a handout.

Instant appreciation of work and labor.
14   FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut   2019 Feb 16, 3:06pm  

For most majors you can learn everything colleges provides by just reading books.

Colleges today are shit, more like propaganda diploma mills. I see so many graduate, can’t do shit. It’s pathetic.
15   Ceffer   2019 Feb 16, 3:11pm  

theoakman says
Most people would benefit, not from the education, but from the stigma that they actually accomplished something.

Tee, Hee, too much truth, it is actually a stigma in some circles.
16   kt1652   2019 Feb 16, 3:36pm  

Hands down the value is com/city/junior college for 2 years. Transfer to regional UC or CSU. Lowest debt load, can live at home.
17   Ceffer   2019 Feb 16, 3:46pm  

kt1652 says
Hands down the value is com/city/junior college for 2 years. Transfer to regional UC or CSU. Lowest debt load, can live at home.

Yes, this seems to be a valid option in the school cost tuition racket. UC likes to cleanse itself of first and second year undergraduates so much, it gives MUCH greater consideration and financial aid to worthy transfers from junior colleges who have already gone through self hazing and who go right into upper division. Upper division is where you start getting a more valid college experience, anyway.

UC is basically a graduate school that due to appropriations needs handles the undergraduates, too, but in a rather unkind, Darwinian, dog eat dog fashion.
18   Bd6r   2019 Feb 16, 4:35pm  

kt1652 says
Hands down the value is com/city/junior college for 2 years.

Problem is that in classes my colleagues teach, fail rate for those who went through community colleges is more than twice than for those who took required prereqs at university. You do not need to learn anything to be passed at a community college. Although universities soon will be the same.
19   HeadSet   2019 Feb 16, 5:32pm  

You do not need to learn anything to be passed at a community college.

In Virginia, the colleges like UVa or William and Mary will only accept Community College courses that have been vetted, and the student must have a minimum grade.
20   Ceffer   2019 Feb 16, 6:35pm  

HeadSet says
In Virginia, the colleges like UVa or William and Mary will only accept Community College courses that have been vetted, and the student must have a minimum grade.


Fucking racists.
21   MrMagic   2019 Feb 16, 7:00pm  

Ceffer says
I would probably send a kid to a nice, off the beaten track private school with a good value system and a nurturing environment. Any kid's ultimate success is going to depend on his own brains, industriousness, ability to work with others, and persistence more than any particular college or degree pedigree.


The second part of that is correct. He doesn't need the private college, another waste of money.

The key is to get the kid through 4 years and earn a degree at the cheapest cost. That means the two first years at a community college, then transfer for the next two years to a state school. Plus, the kid doesn't live at the state school, he stacks his classes over two or three days and commutes. Then, with his free days, he works part time to pay for it.

The degree is only a door opener. The big part is what he does with his brains, persistence and aptitiude to move up the ladder.
22   MrMagic   2019 Feb 16, 7:01pm  

d6rB says
You do not need to learn anything to be passed at a community college. Although universities soon will be the same.


They are both there. Neither could care less if you pass or fail. They would rather you fail, so you come back and spend money for another year. College is a business, always remember that, they are in it for the money, not to educate kids.
23   MrMagic   2019 Feb 16, 7:05pm  

d6rB says
Problem is that in classes my colleagues teach, fail rate for those who went through community colleges is more than twice than for those who took required prereqs at university.


The reality is, the dropout rate today is like 45%. Many kids take on huge loans to go to 4 year schools, only to drop out after a year or two, but they are still stuck with the payments, and no degree.

Face it, not every kid is college material, some are trade school material, and some are destined to work at Walmart for a career.
24   kt1652   2019 Feb 16, 11:15pm  

d6rB says
kt1652 says
Hands down the value is com/city/junior college for 2 years.

Problem is that in classes my colleagues teach, fail rate for those who went through community colleges is more than twice than for those who took required prereqs at university. You do not need to learn anything to be passed at a community college. Although universities soon will be the same.

This seems anecdotal. I've seen studies that show little difference, to even slightly better bachelor degree success rate for CC transfers vs 4 year university students.
25   Rin   2019 Feb 17, 6:36am  

Brand name schools are for careers in banking and management consulting. In those areas, the 'oh-ah' stuff still applies since it's a shell game anyways with the general fortune 1000.

As for tech, since tech is generally a worthless career, always primed for offshoring or automation, it's only important to attend a place like MIT because if you're not able to advance in management, there's always some deadwood group near Kendall Square Cambridge, who'll always keep an MITer on site. And sometimes, an MIT startup can get seed capital easier than a non-MIT one, however, many of those guys do have some sales ability so it's not so black and white.
26   Bd6r   2019 Feb 17, 7:48am  

kt1652 says
This seems anecdotal. I've seen studies that show little difference, to even slightly better bachelor degree success rate for CC transfers vs 4 year university students.

We did statistics on mid-level courses, and it is real.
27   Bd6r   2019 Feb 17, 7:49am  

MrMagic says
The reality is, the dropout rate today is like 45%. Many kids take on huge loans to go to 4 year schools, only to drop out after a year or two, but they are still stuck with the payments, and no degree.

Face it, not every kid is college material, some are trade school material, and some are destined to work at Walmart for a career.

Exactly - but they all are told at high school that they should "go to college". It is fraud and preying on young people. I'd say colleges should have may be 1/3-1/2 less enrollment.
28   Bd6r   2019 Feb 17, 7:51am  

MrMagic says
They are both there. Neither could care less if you pass or fail.

Probably true, with very few exceptions - some tenured faculty still care. Adjuncts will pass everyone so they would not get fired. Administration actually pressures faculty to pass everyone, even if student refused to learn anything.
29   anonymous   2019 Feb 17, 7:56am  

d6rB says
Many kids take on huge loans to go to 4 year schools


Many parents are also taking on huge loans or borrowing from their retirement to do the same.
30   Bd6r   2019 Feb 17, 8:03am  

Kakistocracy says
Many parents are also taking on huge loans or borrowing from their retirement to do the same.

We have nowadays "college-industrial complex" in addition to "military-industrial complex". There is no need to pay college presidents more than we pay US President, no need to have 1.5 times more senior administrators than faculty, no need to spend tens of millions on athletics, etc.
31   kt1652   2019 Feb 17, 10:49am  

Rin says
As for tech, since tech is generally a worthless career, always primed for offshoring or automation, it's only important to attend a place like MIT because if you're not able to advance in management, there's always some deadwood group near Kendall Square Cambridge, who'll always keep an MITer on site. And sometimes, an MIT startup can get seed capital easier than a non-MIT one, however, many of those guys do have some sales ability so it's not so black and white.

You can't say that with a straight face.

Who brought you, internet, gps, smartphones, heck computers, solar PV, EV, MRI…?
Soon AV so even the little guy can be chauffeured, on average gain hours a week of wasted time? All engineers and technical folks have one thing in common.
They strive to solve problems with the end result of higher efficiency, which ultimately reduces wasted resources, be it money, human or natural.

Who brought you, subprime loans, housing bubble, credit default swaps, balloon loans, marginable leverage trading, Enron, student loans fiasco…?
I am only at the tip of the iceberg. Masters of the Universe ruined everything.
32   B.A.C.A.H.   2019 Feb 17, 11:10am  

kt,

did you work in "tech"?

Just asking.
33   kt1652   2019 Feb 17, 11:19am  

I sure did. The companies I worked for are household names.
When I graduated, my office building had rooms full of drafters.

Design mock-ups such as plastic panels, molded mechanism would take weeks and 10's of thousand $ (back when $25K was good starting salary).
Had to be created by skilled craftmen with years of training or offshore later. Today, 3D printed in a few hours at your office. All those drafters, purchase agents found more useful jobs.
34   Rin   2019 Feb 17, 9:55pm  

kt1652 says
You can't say that with a straight face.


I'm simply the messenger here. Society, as a whole, does not value ppl in engineering and the sciences.

http://patrick.net/post/1283817/2015-08-13-stem-is-not-culturally-prestigious

kt1652 says
Who brought you, internet, gps, smartphones, heck computers, solar PV, EV, MRI…?
Soon AV so even the little guy can be chauffeured, on average gain hours a week of wasted time? All engineers and technical folks have one thing in common.
They strive to solve problems with the end result of higher efficiency, which ultimately reduces wasted resources, be it money, human or natural.


My degree is in Applied Chemistry/Chemical Engineering and seeing the writing on the wall, I'd moved from engineering to IT, and finally, into finance. Don't you get it? If I could have secured a long term profession in engineering, I would have done it. Instead, I saw the layoffs at R&D centers and decided not to become a statistic.

kt1652 says
Who brought you, subprime loans, housing bubble, credit default swaps, balloon loans, marginable leverage trading, Enron, student loans fiasco…?
I am only at the tip of the iceberg. Masters of the Universe ruined everything.


The seniors of this hedge fund, a.k.a SubMasters of the Universe, are the reason why I'm able to see hoes with regularity today. Otherwise, I'd be the typical engineering chump, who takes one trip to Thailand per year.

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