patrick.net

Even MDs. I routinely challenge and charge back when they obscure and don't send you a detailed bill before charging your card. But I found that usually it's the non life saving part of MDs and pseudo scientists such as behavioral neurology etc. that are far worse with their charges.

The insurer is only going to pay what they pay. It's obscure so you are on the hook to pay what they don't pay.
Since it is obscure the insurance company will tell you to go pound sand and pay the damn thing when you call and complain.
But make no mistake the Insurance companies are on the Hospitals and their Billing practices side. Because it's just more of your premiums they get to keep.
Insurance would much rather you pay everything out of pocket and they get 100% pure profit for providing NOTHING.

Another practice is when you inquire about total absolute cost of treatment they will give you a fraction of the real cost and then claim later they factored in "standard" insurance coverage knowing fully well that many have HSAs with high deductibles.

Yep. Part of that is trying to maximize revenue with obscure billing codes.

This is by design. I’m very familiar with these billing practices.

Patrick says

I suspect the reason is that hospitals just keep inventing new charges as long as they keep getting more money out of you or your insurer.

If they were to bill in advance, they couldn't do that. So the obscurity in billing greatly helps their profitability.

The objective: extract as many dollars from "treatments" as possible before death. This is megadollars from baby boomers for the next decade. Otherwise, you might have something left to give to your heirs, and that can't happen! Big Med/Big Pharma must have it all. It's income extraction on a grand scale.

The policy of assigning extra doctors to people in hospital to "review" cases" is one way to pad the billing. A completely unrelated doc stops by you bed (while you're sleeping or drugged up) "reviews" your file, maybe signs something to indicate they were actually present, and bills $1000. At least when you go to McDonalds, you get fries and a drink when they supersize you!

The incentive of a private business is to maximize profits? Even if that means there is no "market" and just basic extortion?
Shocker!
But regulation is bad!

There definitely seems to be collusion where Hospitals and Insurers don't want you to find out what you have to pay in advance, or what was actually paid later.

I've seen bills that were billed $60k on paper but the after insurance, co-pays, and everything else, the hospital was happy with $20k.

How is it something is 67% cheaper when paid in 90-120 days later, after much redtape, instead of in advance with cash?

Trump passed bill transparency through.

Not a peep from the left or right. Apparently no one gave a shit outside pat.net

Heraclitusstudent says

The incentive of a private business is to maximize profits? Even if that means there is no "market" and just basic extortion?
Shocker!
But regulation is bad!

FortWayneIndiana says

Trump passed bill transparency through.

Not a peep from the left or right. Apparently no one gave a shit outside pat.net

Meaning now we can predict how much a procedure will cost at an hospital and shop around?
I rather doubt it.

MisterLearnToCode says

Hospitals and Insurers don't want you to find out what you have to pay in advance

I don't think it is a collusion. It's just that no one cares.
The hospital can charge whatever they feel like at the time.
The insurance can't do much to avoid paying, so just adds its margin and passes you the cost.
People are afraid to be under insured, so are willing to pay whatever for a solid insurance.

That was the purpose. So far worst rollout ever.

Heraclitusstudent says

FortWayneIndiana says

Trump passed bill transparency through.

Not a peep from the left or right. Apparently no one gave a shit outside pat.net

Meaning now we can predict how much a procedure will cost at an hospital and shop around?
I rather doubt it.