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Did More Russians or Americans Die in World War II? The death toll was staggering.

By willywonka following x   2019 Mar 26, 3:52am 811 views   35 comments   watch   nsfw   quote     share    


World War II was by far the deadliest war in history, and counting the number of total deaths can be controversial at times. How do you count the loss of human life? World War II with genocide, strategic bombing, and atomic weapons was the first war in which civilian deaths outnumbered military deaths. For the first time, civilians became the target of the opposing armies. Military figures include battle fatalities, as well as deaths from prisoners of war in captivity and soldiers missing in action. Both military and civilian casualty totals include the deaths from famine and disease.

When trying to understand the devastation suffered by a country, it is advantageous to look at the percentage of its population who died as a result of the war. The general consensus is that 50 million to 80 million people died. On September 1, 1939, the day World War II started, the world’s population was approximately 2.3 billion. It is estimated 3.0 to 3.7 percent of the world’s population perished as a result of World War II.

The Soviet Union suffered 21% more casualties than Americans in World War II.

Most estimates agree the Soviet Union suffered the highest number of total deaths in World War II, between 22 and 28 million. The population of the Soviet Union was 194,100,000. This represents a total loss of 14.0% of its population. On the other hand, the United States suffered 420,000 deaths out of a population of 131,028,000 which represents 0.32% of its total population.

There are several factors which account for the incredible discrepancies in total fatalities. First the Soviet Union, like all of Europe, had been fighting the war for several years before the United States entered. Secondly, the war was fought on the soil of the Soviets and the other European countries. The civilians in these countries were caught in the middle of the great conflict and were the targets of the opposing sides. The issue of the value of life and the strategies used by the Soviet military accounted for a large number of fatalities. Finally, the Germans considered the Russians ethnically inferior and German death squads targeted Russian Jews.

The Soviets were not the only country to suffer high fatality figures. Germany suffered between 7 to 9 million deaths. With a population of over 80 million, this represents a fatality rate of over 8.0% of its total population. Poland suffered nearly 6 million dead. The Polish deaths are mostly civilians as result of the Genocide against Polish Jews. The country which may have suffered the most deaths was China with total fatalities estimated at between 15 to 20 million. With a population of well over 500 million in 1939, this represents a fatality rate of 4%.

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/did-more-russians-or-americans-die-world-war-ii

1   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (41)   2019 Mar 26, 6:37am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

This is exactly why America should be proud to be a client state of the Russian mob and a guy Trump can trust from Ukraine should receive and manage the Social Security trust fund and libbies should accept their tax hikes with thanks.
2   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 26, 7:03am   ↑ like (7)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Stalin killed off 20-50 million more. Yet you have mouth breathers supporting communism.
3   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (41)   2019 Mar 26, 7:20am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Someone said something about 'Socialism' and, obviously, the lives of anyone who would listen to him or her are dedicated to installing a Stalinist dictator to kill 20-50 million white AMERICA!ns! This is exactly why America should be proud to be a client state of the Russian mob and a guy Trump can trust from Ukraine should receive and manage the Social Security trust fund and libbies should accept their tax hikes with thanks and buy White House-branded Trump soap.
4   FortWayneIndiana   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 26, 7:21am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

America since aborted more babies than Hitler killed. About 1m per year.

Liberals are literally worse than Hitler.
5   AD   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 26, 9:53am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

willywonka says
The country which may have suffered the most deaths was China with total fatalities estimated at between 15 to 20 million


I think Dear Leader and Chairman Mao beat that record during the Cultural Revolution.

As far as 9 million deaths in Germany, does that include the approximately 5 million German Jews murdered in the camps, at the hand of the SS, etc ?

If yes, then only 4 million non-Jewish Germans died in World War 2. Not a bad loss when you consider the Germans were the ones who started all that shit.

I think the Germans fucked up doing what they did in Eastern Europe (i.e., Ukraine, Belarus, etc.) and that is why they got their asses handed to them by the Resistance and Partisan. A lot of that "Resistance" equally did not like the Soviets and Stalin since he starved them nearly to death, and they did not associate completely with being part of the Slav and Russian-speaking races.
6   6rdB   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 26, 11:08am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

AD says
As far as 9 million deaths in Germany, does that include the approximately 5 million German Jews murdered in the camps, at the hand of the SS, etc ?

If yes, then only 4 million non-Jewish Germans died in World War 2. Not a bad loss when you consider the Germans were the ones who started all that shit.


Wiki says that Nazis murdered 165,000 German Jews. Most of Jewish murders were in Poland - 2.1M killed.
7   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2019 Mar 26, 11:13am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

On the western front, this war was a joke compared to WW1.

And it's remarkable the civil war is still the most deadly war fought by the US.
8   HEYYOU   ignore (31)   2019 Mar 26, 11:32am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

You can do it,Clever Apes!
Firefuck thermonuclear weapons dropped on nuclear power plants can make past warmongers look like
a bunch of bleeding hearts.
Let's show them how it's done!
9   AD   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 26, 11:52am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

d6rB says
Wiki says that Nazis murdered 165,000 German Jews. Most of Jewish murders were in Poland - 2.1M killed.


Da.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#Soviet_citizens_and_POWs
10   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 26, 11:57am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

YUGE numbers of Russians, esp. POWs, killed by the Nazis.

Sometimes they just locked them in barns and burned it.

Jews were only the snack before the big Slav meal. Testing mass processing before implementing it once they pushed the Soviets past the Urals.
11   6rdB   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 26, 12:02pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MisterLearnToCode says
YUGE numbers of Russians, esp. POWs, killed by the Nazis.

Sometimes they just locked them in barns and burned it.

Jews were only the snack before the big Slav meal.

Nazis killed nearly 3M Polish people as well. Where I am from, the Polish suffered more than Russians.
12   AD   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 26, 12:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Immediately after the German army entered Lwów, the prison gates were opened and the scale of the NKVD prisoner massacres carried out by the Soviets revealed. An OUN member estimated 10,000 dead victims at Brygidki, although the numbers were later adjusted by the German investigation down to 7,000 in total. The report drafted by Judge Möller singled out the Jews as responsible for the Soviet atrocities.
13   6rdB   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 26, 12:06pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

AD says
The report drafted by Judge Möller singled out the Jews as responsible for the Soviet atrocities.

Somehow I am not surprised that Nazis said that Jews are responsible for everything...
14   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 26, 12:08pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

d6rB says
Nazis killed nearly 3M Polish people as well. Where I am from, the Polish suffered more than Russians.


With enthusiastic support from Ukrainian Nationalists

http://volhyniamassacre.eu/
15   6rdB   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 26, 12:11pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MisterLearnToCode says
With enthusiastic support from Ukrainian Nationalists

Nazi invasion stirred up a lot of worst historical enmities. Sadly, massacres went all possible ways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paw%C5%82okoma_massacre
16   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 26, 12:14pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

From that moment on Ukrainian nationalist organizations — the Ukrainian Insurgent Army and the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists — focused on the extermination of Poles, who were an ethnic a minority in those territories. The genocide on Poles began in 1943 in Volhynia, while the climax of the massacres in eastern Małopolska came in 1944. The participation of the Ukrainian clergy was significant. In many localities Orthodox priests (and Greek Catholic priests in eastern Małopolska) consecrated the murder tools. Despite her father’s prohibition, Anna Szumska went with her first cousin to the neighboring village of Horodno to see why Ukrainians were meeting there. We arrive. There’s plenty of people. An altar’s been erected by the lake. The Orthodox priest’s already there. Many wagons have already arrived from afar. We stand next to a Ukrainian woman and we listen on. The priest is praying. And the people, mostly men, are all holding various objects: axes, knives, scythes, and pitchforks. What for? The Orthodox priest is praying. He turns to the people [and says]: ‘The time has come to seize your own’ He told them so and at last he says: ‘Swing your sickle, swing your knife, at the ‘Lakh’ to take his life.’ That is, he told them to slaughter the Poles And we stand there. A Ukrainian boy approaches us — he was friends with my bother once. His name was Andrey. He says, ‘Girls, what are you doing here? Run away. If somebody says that you’re Polish, you won’t go home alive.’” The accounts given by surviving eye witnesses of the genocide on Poles are the most valuable and the most tragic. Even though the survivors have aged, their accounts are still ones of child victims of the Volhynian genocide. Surprisingly, the accounts of the events as seen through the eyes of children are highly, or even exceedingly, detailed – sometimes dry and concise. Kazimierz Kobylarz (born in 1928) remembers the day of July 12, 1943 perfectly well — he was 15 years old then. “The neighboring village of Maria Wola, next to Ułanówka, was set ablaze. My sister had gone there with her friend Martykówna to try on some costumes at a seamstress’. But she didn’t come back. […] We fled from the farm: my father, mother, nephew, I, my older brother Tadzik, and my brother Staszek. We ran down into the crop field, that’s where we hid.” After some time Kazimierz Kobylarz’s father decided to return home with Kazimierz’s mother and nephew. They were stopped on their way by a Ukrainian with a machine gun and our Ukrainian neighbor, Kulish. Kazimierz and his brothers crawled up near the German cemetery near their home. “Suddenly, we hear our father shout, ‘Jesus Christ!’ I guess he shouted twice, and then silence fell. No shot. A second later he hear a Ukrainian voice saying, ‘I davwshtchczob vona perekynulas.’ Something like that. And a shot. We didn’t hear anything about my nephew.
(from above link)

17   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2019 Mar 26, 12:17pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

How many more Polish killed by Russians or forcefully recruited to fight against the Germans?
18   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 26, 12:22pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Anyway, it all worked out* The US, UK, France, and USSR forcibly relocated minorities into majority areas, from Holland to Sudentenland to Lvov.

The only three places were there was ethnic conflict in Europe since WW2 were exactly the few places the Victors did not ethnically/religiously cleanse: Spain, Norn Iron, and Yugoslavia.

As the Offspring said "Better keep 'em separated". No minority over the border, no Revanchism!

Also never discussed is FRENCH Revanchism that contributed greatly to WW1.

* Black Humor/Partial Sarcasm.
19   AD   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 26, 12:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MisterLearnToCode says
Revanchism


Do you think that there will be something like that in the USA with "expropriation" of the western USA to the Hispanic speaking population (i.e., La Raza crowd) while there is a final push for reparations for slavery ?

Again, what is ironic is that most of the ranks of the La Raza crowd look very indigenous or Mayan. They don't look like original Spanish-speaking conquerors.

So when I keep hearing about "re-conquest of the American West" I am thinking why do these people arrogantly think they represent the original white Spanish-speaking conquerors who took part in the first conquest ?
20   AD   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 26, 12:27pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

d6rB says
Nazis killed nearly 3M Polish people as well. Where I am from, the Polish suffered more than Russians.


That's funny as I think Patrick coincidentally also has posted his family is from Poland as well. I wonder how many on this board have eastern european heritage.
21   OccasionalCortex   ignore (3)   2019 Mar 26, 12:34pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I always learned it that up to 30 million Soviets were killed, when you count the civilians.

And they hated us for that. We basically used the Soviets to bloody up the Germans so we could invade YEARS later on D-Day with a lot fewer Wehrmacht & Luftwaffe to face.

Also after the war, some War Dept folks had German ex-generals write a up a report about what was the reasoning/strategy on their side of things. The report said that basically the German High Command defied Hitler and kept throwing most of what they had to the East to slow the Russians down while purposely letting us have a cake walk in the West. The Allies never did battle with fully equipped, fully fuelled and fully manned divisions, for example. The German High Command KNEW what would happen if the Russians gobbled up most of Germany first (pretty much what happened to East Germany).

The US War Dept...particularly the Army...did NOT like that report and buried it.
22   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 26, 12:37pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

OccasionalCortex says
And they hated us for that. We basically used the Soviets to bloody up the Germans so we could invade YEARS later on D-Day with a lot fewer Wehrmacht & Luftwaffe to face.


Ever wonder why the French and British made no moves when the Nazis invaded Poland? Even though they could have easily brushed aside the elderly reservists on the Rhine and occupied 30%+ of German Industry in the Rheinland within days?

They were gambling on the Nazis instantly fighting with the Soviets and cheered when reports of Soviets entering Poland came in.

The shock was when they shook hands when the two armies met up.

The plan was to let them duke it out, then mop up the exhausted victor, thinking it would be WW1 repeated.

The Gamble That Failed.
23   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 26, 12:39pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

AD says

Do you think that there will be something like that in the USA with "expropriation" of the western USA to the Hispanic speaking population (i.e., La Raza crowd) while there is a final push for reparations for slavery ?

Again, what is ironic is that most of the ranks of the La Raza crowd look very indigenous or Mayan. They don't look like original Spanish-speaking conquerors.


Hard to say. Mexicans are the first massive wave of immigrants with grievances when they lost their Empire (mostly inherited from the Spanish and more colonialist than the USA) to the USA (Yes, Mexico was an Empire, called itself one).

No Italian, Irish, Germans, Chinese, etc. had/have territorial claims on the USA.

But damn, the Bloodlands are depressing.
24   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2019 Mar 26, 12:53pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MisterLearnToCode says
They were gambling on the Nazis instantly fighting with the Soviets and cheered when reports of Soviets entering Poland came in.

A more simple explanation was that the French had millions of dead in WW1 and had no appetite for battle.
Politically this translated in a defensive strategy based on the ligne Maginot. Why attack when you think you're equipped for defense?
Keep in mind that in WW1 defense had a huge advantage over offense, something that changed because of - what the French army didn't have - planes and tanks.
25   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2019 Mar 26, 12:57pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

If the US had had 15 millions dead in the 1st Gulf war, and every family had lost a son or a brother, do you think Bush jr would attack Saddam?
I say he wouldn't have.
26   AD   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 26, 12:57pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

OccasionalCortex says
The German High Command KNEW what would happen if the Russians gobbled up most of Germany first (pretty much what happened to East Germany).


EXACTLY. They knew the better and more compassionate enemy was the western allies (USA, Brits, etc.).

Russians looted and stole (or "expropriated") as much as they could, as well as enslaved as many POWs as they could in work camps.

How much of the "lost" Jewish art and treasures actually made it to the Kremlin and Leningrad ?
27   HeadSet   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 26, 1:33pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

A more simple explanation was that the French had millions of dead in WW1 and had no appetite for battle.

This. That horrible war was still in living memory. Also explains why Chamberlain was so eager to appease Hitler.
28   6rdB   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 26, 2:24pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Heraclitusstudent says
How many more Polish killed by Russians or forcefully recruited to fight against the Germans?

A LOT
Katyn, + deportations of hundreds of thousands from W Ukraine/Belarus in many waves in 1940, 1941 to Siberia to die from hunger, + hundreds of thousands shot/sent to extermination camps in 1937-38.
29   6rdB   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 26, 2:26pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

AD says
Do you think that there will be something like that in the USA with "expropriation" of the western USA to the Hispanic speaking population (i.e., La Raza crowd) while there is a final push for reparations for slavery ?

Doubt it, at least not in TX. Then again CA is a different case, with nutjobs running the nuthouse.
30   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 26, 2:29pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Heraclitusstudent says
A more simple explanation was that the French had millions of dead in WW1 and had no appetite for battle.


That's a factor, but France was very divided politically and the later 20s and 30s, Pacificism was a major political belief.

Both British and French politicians - not just leftists - cut the military to the bone.
31   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 26, 2:31pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

AD says
Russians looted and stole (or "expropriated") as much as they could, as well as enslaved as many POWs as they could in work camps.


Nazis did the same, especially in Greece, as well as Poland and France.

The Greeks are now reconsidering the reparations owed by Germany, as are the Poles. And quite rightfully so.
32   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2019 Mar 26, 2:37pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MisterLearnToCode says

That's a factor, but France was very divided politically and the later 20s and 30s, Pacificism was a major political belief.

Exactly.
I know Polish people always have a lot of phantasms about what would have happened if France & England had attacked Germany in the West when it invaded Poland (and the 3 would have ganged up on Germany).
But consider in WW1, Germany was easily fending off France & England while beating up Russia. I don't think much would have happened if France & England had attacked.
The allies armies were just not ready the way Germans were.
33   ThreeBays   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 26, 3:33pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

28 Million is not only 21% more than 420,000. It's 6666% more.
34   AD   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 26, 5:17pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MisterLearnToCode says
The Greeks are now reconsidering the reparations owed by Germany


May be a good time to do that since Greece's debt to gdp ratio is + 250%.

Unfortunately this may not be as well received by the Germans who can't be anymore generous since their debt to gdp ratio is high as well, DESPITE military spending only being about 1.3% of GDP.
35   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 26, 8:30pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

AD says

May be a good time to do that since Greece's debt to gdp ratio is + 250%.

Unfortunately this may not be as well received by the Germans who can't be anymore generous since their debt to gdp ratio is high as well, DESPITE military spending only being about 1.3% of GDP.


Yes.

Then they have to deal with the Energiewende, a $200B failure, of which the subsidies and breaks end next year, with huge costs for disposing of Wind Farms (which aren't eternal, have 10m+ foundations, and carbon fiber blades that can't be incinerated due to toxicity/mass).

The best case for a lawsuit is Poland. The Soviets made them give up all claims on Germany without compensation, the Greeks did get a little but nowhere near enough.

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