patrick.net

The US is not the only supporter of Maduro:

"Spain, France, Britain and Germany followed through on their promise, and by noon Monday, 13 European nations had joined in solidarity with Guaidó, recognizing him as president."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/major-european-nations-back-maduro-rival-for-venezuela-presidency/2019/02/04/c173c164-286e-11e9-8eef-0d74f4bf0295_story.html?utm_term=.7536a79179c3

Another banana republic for the elite to bust out.

It's a weird requirement to stay "peaceful" after years and years of deprivation at the hands of fucking Commie fucks. How long would you remain "peaceful" w/o fucking toilet paper?

Why do we care stay the fuck out of other countries affairs and keep their "refugees" out when shit falls apart.

jazz_music says

Yeah, are oligarchs need Venezuela’s oil to make it more convenient to conquer Iran when they shut down oil traffic from the Strait of Hormuz.
.

WHY DO YOU HATE FACTS?!?!?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/us-will-export-oil-most-in-world-2018-5

I don't think the two are related Jazz but I wouldn't be surprised if it was Israelis that hit those ships to stir shit up against Iran. I don't like Iran but seems like something Israel would do.

RC2006 says

I don't think the two are related Jazz but I wouldn't be surprised if it was Israelis that hit those ships to stir shit up against Iran. I don't like Iran but seems like something Israel would do.

This is all because Trump listed IRGC, which operates in a dozen countries, as a terrorist group. They are the Kingmakers in Iran, and they're desperate to avoid sanctions.

What's important is to try not to take the bait, and simply keep the Straits open. IRGC may be desperate enough to start a war, to hope to excite nationalism, and help keep themselves and the Ayatollahs in power. Their economy was shit even after the Lemon Iran Deal.

Hugolas_Madurez says

It's a weird requirement to stay "peaceful" after years and years of deprivation

The point of my article is this uprising is spurned not by the people of Venezuela, but by the CIA that hires poor people to harass the police, which is the same thing the Agency did in Iran, to give the impression of civil unrest. These people are not as bad off as the western media makes them out to be, although things are a lot worse than in the States.

jazz_music says

the straight of Hormuz is lined with weapons and military from Russia

Yeah, it's a dangerous game we are playing in the Persian Gulf. Ron Paul thinks the neocons and war mongers: Bolton and Pompeo are hoping the Iranians will attack or something will happen to U.S. ships there, so we will have an excuse to attack Iran.

WillPowers says

The point of my article is this uprising is spurned not by the people of Venezuela, but by the CIA that hires poor people to harass the police

I doubt it's possible in any significant numbers.

Eric Holder says

WillPowers says

The point of my article is this uprising is spurned not by the people of Venezuela, but by the CIA that hires poor people to harass the police

I doubt it's possible in any significant numbers.

Pretty much how we fucked Iran up.

RC2006 says

Eric Holder says

WillPowers says

The point of my article is this uprising is spurned not by the people of Venezuela, but by the CIA that hires poor people to harass the police

I doubt it's possible in any significant numbers.

Pretty much how we fucked Iran up.

Really? How many "poor people" had CIA hired to "fuck up Iran"? At what price per day? For how many days?

Hugolas_Madurez says

Really? How many "poor people" had CIA hired to "fuck up Iran"? At what price per day? For how many days?

Sputnik, Global Research.ca, and the Dem Underground Forums* say 100,000 at the cost of $100 dollars a day... shouldn't we forgive College Loans of our hardworking Buzzfeed Interns instead?


* Where they believe MSNBC is too Right Wing.

MARACAIBO, Venezuela — Zimbabwe’s collapse under Robert Mugabe. The fall of the Soviet Union. Cuba’s disastrous unraveling in the 1990s.

The crumbling of Venezuela’s economy has now outpaced them all.

Venezuela’s fall is the single largest economic collapse outside of war in at least 45 years, economists say.

“It’s really hard to think of a human tragedy of this scale outside civil war,” said Kenneth Rogoff, an economics professor at Harvard University and former chief economist at the International Monetary Fund. “This will be a touchstone of disastrous policies for decades to come.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/17/world/americas/venezuela-economy.html

WillPowers says

The point of my article is this uprising is spurned not by the people of Venezuela, but by the CIA that hires poor people to harass the police, which is the same thing the Agency did in Iran, to give the impression of civil unrest. These people are not as bad off as the western media makes them out to be, although things are a lot worse than in the States.

Absolutely not. I heard the same (CIA-funded revolts!) about unrest in Eastern Europe in 1990's, which I participated in. Somehow neither me nor any of my numerous friends were paid by CIA or anyone else, where do I apply for back pay? Furthermore, I have a few Iranian students, and they do not see unrest in Iran as being fomented by damned foreigners of CIA. It is their friends and relatives who are unhappy and demonstrate. I doubt that it is different in Venezuela because it is even more fucked up than Iran.

And no, we should not send any troops to Venezuela. Let neighbors deal with them. But supporting someone who seems reasonable (Guaido) over lunatic Chavistas who have screwed over once prosperous country is probably the correct thing to do.

RC2006 says

I doubt it's possible in any significant numbers

The numbers of agitators are small, 50, to 100 people causing all the violence.

d6rB says

But supporting someone who seems reasonable (Guaido) over lunatic Chavistas who have screwed over once prosperous country is probably the correct thing to do.

Guiado did not run for office and he certainly wasn't elected. Maduro is the legitimate ruler and the country is broken due to the U.S. sanctions. Socialism is not good, but US. policies toward third world countries is worse. It debilitates countries, like Iran and Venezuela if they do not comply with US. wishes. That is why this country is trying to over throw the Maduro regime, not out of any love for democracy.

That's just for the rubes who want to believe America is good and kind. What a lot of crap. America is the new Rome, a despotic empire bent on controlling as much of the world as Hitler wanted for Germany.

In fact the U.S. brought a bunch of Nazis over here to use them for our own scientific advancement and in the process we became them. Most people just haven't realized that because they live in a delusional bubble. Too much reality is too much for people.

WillPowers says

RC2006 says

I doubt it's possible in any significant numbers

The numbers of agitators are small, 50, to 100 people causing all the violence.

thats Eric you are quoting not me.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/20/64-years-later-cia-finally-releases-details-of-iranian-coup-iran-tehran-oil/&ved=2ahUKEwi98Y6zrKXiAhWVvp4KHfPmCSoQFjAeegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw3Nfk7aAKLbSVA5xztHh70m&cshid=1558191764989


August 19, 1953, with the aid of “rented” crowds widely believed to have been arranged with CIA assistance, the coup succeeded. Iran’s nationalist hero was jailed, the monarchy restored under the Western-friendly shah, and Anglo-Iranian oil — renamed British Petroleum — tried to get its fields back. (But didn’t really: Despite the coup, nationalist pushback against a return to foreign control of oil was too much, leaving BP and other majors to share Iran’s oil wealth with Tehran.)

WillPowers says

Guiado did not run for office and he certainly wasn't elected.

Yes he was elected. He is a president of the national Assembly or something like that. Chavistas are playing with Constitution to minimize power of national Assembly since they do not control it after last elections.

WillPowers says

Maduro is the legitimate ruler and the country is broken due to the U.S. sanctions.

Maduro was elected with major fraud. Chavez was elected fair and square, but not Maduro. And country is broken due to socialism and cronyism, US sanctions are secondary or even tertiary. Not every bad thing in world happens due to US of A.

WillPowers says

Socialism is not good, but US. policies toward third world countries is worse.

US sure has screwed up many countries, but socialism is far, far ahead of US by any metric. Socialists have killed upwards of 100M people - US still has ways to go. Countries which were occupied by US and which accepted US type of governance are actually doing pretty well - see S. Korea, Japan, Taiwan. Their socialist counterparts such as N. Korea - not so well.

WillPowers says

In fact the U.S. brought a bunch of Nazis over here to use them for our own scientific advancement and in the process we became them.

So did everyone else, including Russians. Manfred von Ardenne was even awarded the Stalin prize...

Overall, I'd say that US is best in shooting itself in foot in foreign politics. We could even argue that US is machine-gunning itself in foot...getting into Afghanistan where no one has been able to succeed ever, destroying Iraq and in process giving Iraq oil to Chinese and power in Iraq to Iranians...overthrowing Iranian govt in 1950's (although in that case British did more) eventually resulted in Islamic Republic...etc.

I just want to make enemies out of the Commies in America. I say we dive in head first. Or at least arm Columbia and back them in a good old fashioned Proxy War.

Commies here at home would be wrong side of Sedition and Treason to pull their Woke shit while that was going on. Check mate Retards!

Maybe socialism is just doing nature's work like aids and Ebola.

jazz_music says

The democratic socialism we had with the new deal made the best country ever all the way up to Reagan's backers with that Powell memo to betray us all.

Reagan was a union leader, unions were the first thing he got rid of. He must have been losing it already during those years and being propped up by greedy donors.

It turns out that capitalists historically take the lives away from the better people, our elementary school indoctrination betrayed us about capitalism being the best way. It most certainly is not. The socialism was the people's part of the rewards of capitalism.

We need to get back there again. Good men are going to once again have to lay their lives down, then the oligarchs will greenlight the thug brigades, then the people will win.

Depends what we define as "socialism". I do not really know hat "socialism" means - what I have seen usually ends in genocide.

Marx himself has said:

They detach the consciousness of certain historically conditioned spheres of life from these spheres and evaluate it in terms of true, absolute, i.e., German philosophical consciousness. With perfect consistency they transform the relations of these particular individuals into relations of “Man”; they interpret the thoughts of these particular individuals concerning their own relations as thoughts about “Man”. In so doing, they have abandoned the real historical basis and returned to that of ideology, and since they are ignorant of the real connection, they can without difficulty construct some fantastic relationship with the help of the “absolute” or some other ideological method. This translation of French ideas into the language of the German ideologists and this arbitrarily constructed relationship between communism and German ideology, then, constitute so-called “true socialism”...

Thus “true socialism” is nothing but the transfiguration of proletarian communism, and of the parties and sects that are more or less akin to it, in France and England within the heaven of the German mind and, as we shall also see, of the German sentiment. True socialism, which claims to be based on “science”, is primarily another esoteric science; its theoretical literature is intended only for those who are initiated into the mysteries of the “thinking mind”.

d6rB says

Yes he was elected.

We're talking about the presidency. That is the legitimate ruler of Venezuela, not the nationalist party. That would be like saying, in this country if the democratic party nominated someone that someone would be the legitimate ruler without a general election to determine that result. Your comment was disingenuous.

Maduro was elected with major fraud.

False: Henri Falcón was the opposition politician who lost to Maduro, by over four million votes, 47 percent of the electorate. (29) And while there are claims of voter fraud and a “stolen election,” nobody has conclusively shown that any votes, let alone millions of votes, were stolen from Falcón. Also, four different election observers concluded the 2018 election was clean and free of voter fraud.

You won't get an argument from me on the rest of the points you made, although I don't think we should involve ourselves in Venezuela and if there were no sanctions, which are not justified in my opinion, then we would know with certainty how bad socialism has been for Venezuela.

WillPowers says

Your comment was disingenuous.

Your statement was imprecise. Furthermore, both Pres and National Assembly (introduced by Chavez btw) are legitimate ruling powers. Maduro and his cronies created "Constituent national Assembly", which usurped power from National Assembly, since NA has majority of opposition. I do not think that in US pres creates Congress/Senate replacements if his party loses respective elections.

Eric Holder says

I doubt it's possible in any significant numbers.

The numbers of agitators are small, 50, to 100 people causing all the violence.

d6rB says

Constituent national Assembly", which usurped power from National Assembly

Propaganda. That is the point of my article. You don't know what is going on there and you can't trust the mainstream media on this issue. You may be right. You may be wrong, but how do you know what to believe? The people of Venezuela don't even know whats going on in their own country. CBS interviewed a guy who said he was confused because most reliable media he turned to was shut down by the government.

Don't believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear.

WillPowers says

The people of Venezuela don't even know whats going on in their own country.

.... and have nothing to wipe their butts with.

Given America's track record in South America (or anywhere else in the world), I side firmly with Venezuela and Maduro whether or not he is wise, just or socialist. Name one country the US where the US has installed a democracy (outside of the liberated nations of Western Europe after WWII and that exclude Greece, Spain, Portugal, and Italy).

You would have to be a delusional, moronic patriot to believe a single things any cunt in DC says about anything south of the border.

WillPowers says

Propaganda. That is the point of my article. You don't know what is going on there and you can't trust the mainstream media on this issue. You may be right. You may be wrong, but how do you know what to believe? The people of Venezuela don't even know whats going on in their own country. CBS interviewed a guy who said he was confused because most reliable media he turned to was shut down by the government.

Don't believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear.

I don't accept whatever MSM says, I talk to Venezuelans here in SE TX, There are quite a few of them in my classes and we have a few family acquaintances from there as well. Their information is more reliable than so-called MSM or Russia today.
It is just as bad to believe MSM as it is to uncritically accept mantra "everything US does is bad and designed to oppress the rest of universe".

Expat01 says

Name one country the US where the US has installed a democracy (outside of the liberated nations of Western Europe after WWII and that exclude Greece, Spain, Portugal, and Italy).

Japan, S. Korea, indirectly (not under occupation, but under heavy influence) - Taiwan. All are extraordinary success stories.