patrick.net

Patrick says

A barista then told them they had to move to where customers couldn’t see them — or they had to leave the coffee shop.

What was the barista going to do if they didn’t comply? Call the police? LOL!
Uppitty little brat had no agency, and was just spouting off shit. Doubtless the owner of the shop is pissed at him/her.

Cops brought this on themselves when they started treating everyone like a criminal, and putting their lives first. Thank the War on Us.

If I were the cops, I would by trying to find out which of the patrons had warrants or were illegals.

This should be grounds for interfering with a police officer. If a Police Officer in Uniform is technically always on the job. Then anyone harassing them for their presence is interfering with law enforcement.

It could be very reasonably argued, those angry idiots wants the cop gone so they can rob the place. There is no valid argument for Starbucks patrons or employees to want a cop gone from the premises.

NuttBoxer says

Cops brought this on themselves when they started treating everyone like a criminal, and putting their lives first. Thank the War on Us.

As bad as the Cops are, I'll take them over Brake Lock Soy Boys indiscriminately busting me over the head for my peaceful assembly to support my country and President.

And so many people keep getting assaulted or killed by cops for two reasons. First there is never a reason to run. And now where is it written, that you are untouchable as long as you can keep your car going. No where is it written that you can only be arrested if a cop can chase you down by foot and arrest you, no where is it written that if you are pulled over you can challenge the cop to a wrestling match.

The second reason is, we've thrown out all of the seasoned cops that can deal and cope with the stress of dealing with the public and discerning threats from people just stressed and really having a bad day. Sure those cops that were all fired said a few racial sensitive things on message boards ten years ago. But at least those seasoned veterans didn't greet Law abiding citizens running to meet the cops about a disturbance with a gun shot to the face. What do you expect with Somalian immigrant police force?

Tenpoundbass says

This should be grounds for interfering with a police officer. If a Police Officer in Uniform is technically always on the job. Then anyone harassing them for their presence is interfering with law enforcement.

I get your sentiment, but you can't side with bakers that won't bake a queer cake and not side with this business. While cops have policing authority, it's still private property and a business should be able to do what they want within reason. If no crime was being committed you can ask them to leave. I don't agree with what they did, but this slope is getting rather slippery if one discrimination is okay and the other is not, especially with regards to cops. They're not above the law themselves.

I respect cops, but one will never even touch my front lawn without a warrant or if a crime or medical emergency was occurring on my property. At the end of the day, most cops are just burning time to get through a shift. Most are respectable and others aren't. Unfortunately the one's that aren't have placed a lot of mistrust in the public about what they do. Not 100% warranted, but there's no turning back the clock at this point.

Like my comment in another post, if you don't like the way you're being treated, get another job. There are plenty out there.

WookieMan says

Tenpoundbass says

This should be grounds for interfering with a police officer. If a Police Officer in Uniform is technically always on the job. Then anyone harassing them for their presence is interfering with law enforcement.

I get your sentiment, but you can't side with bakers that won't bake a queer cake and not side with this business. While cops have policing authority, it's still private property and a business should be able to do what they want within reason. If no crime was being committed you can ask them to leave. I don't agree with what they did, but this slope is getting rather slippery if one discrimination is okay and the other is not, especially with regards to cops. They're not above the law themselves.

I respect cops, but one will never even touch my front lawn without a warrant or if a crime or medical emergency was occurring on my property. At the end of the d...

Agree it's within their rights but somehow I get the feeling the cops will 'get stuck in traffic' when the store gets robbed and is calling for help. Pretty much the stupidest move a business can make is to throw cops out. They should be doing the opposite. Of course for Starbucks losing one store is recoverable. Still stupid though.

WookieMan says

I get your sentiment, but you can't side with bakers that won't bake a queer cake and not side with this business.

The baker needed more law enforcement officers to side with him.

Remember if that city has a Mayor office, Police chief and a law enforcement system then perhaps it would have never been an issue.
If I were the Mayor I would have had the whole group arrested for extortion, as it really was nothing more than that.

And I'll tell you another thing. Had just one Mayor or State AG had arrested these activist Queer would be grooms. There would have been precedence for it, and more cities would have done the same. It would have bankrupted them trying to then sue those Towns and States, which would have only proved their case those lawyers are nothing more than extortionists.

I would have deflated this whole nonsense way back in 2007 when it all started. This has been going on long enough.

mell says

Agree it's within their rights but somehow I get the feeling the cops will 'get stuck in traffic' when the store gets robbed and is calling for help.

This is an oft repeated trope with no truth behind it. Cops don't stop crime, they document it. The only time cops actually confront robbers, is if the robbers can't escape in time, which is almost never.

If Starbucks wants to thwart robbery, shotgun behind the counter, alarm system, and insurance. Not calling 911.

NuttBoxer says

mell says

Agree it's within their rights but somehow I get the feeling the cops will 'get stuck in traffic' when the store gets robbed and is calling for help.

This is an oft repeated trope with no truth behind it. Cops don't stop crime, they document it. The only time cops actually confront robbers, is if the robbers can't escape in time, which is almost never.

If Starbucks wants to thwart robbery, shotgun behind the counter, alarm system, and insurance. Not calling 911.

Cops do prevent crime simply with their appearance. That is proven and the main reason why many restaurant and business owners give cops favors so they maintain a strong presence to deter the local Mafia. It works. Now when you have to call the cops it may often take them too long to show up, so skilled self defense / shotgun works better if you're willing to risk your life. Or an alarm system which auto dials the cops and makes a lot of noise as early as possible if you don't want to get involved. But the cops have no value is a myth as you can see in many lawless societies without cops that completely break down or escalate into civil war. Of course, if you have a mostly homogenous society of armed trained polite men of the same culture/group you may be able to live better without cops. Today such societies hardly exist anymore, maybe the Amish or a few small rural American towns here and there.

I don't think you intended to, but your reply seems to indicate that being unarmed is somehow less life threatening than being armed, and that cops are not just human beings with guns and the backing of a corrupt justice system. With such options as I see today, lawlessness would be a welcome reprieve.


“The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.”
- Tacitus

mell says

Cops do prevent crime simply with their appearance.

Yes, cops do serve a purpose. The blue "shield/bubble" causes them more problems than good though. And then their unions try to protect the behavior of the few.

I respect cops and know many. My father just passed recently and the police chief of a small city (~200k residents) came to the services. So I'm close with cops. My sister works close with the police as an attorney for that city. Most are good, but the protection of the bad ones is sickening. I don't have an answer for it, but there needs to be more oversight of police departments, especially smaller ones.

Unfortunately some cops are criminals themselves and they're not very good at policing themselves.

NuttBoxer says

I don't think you intended to, but your reply seems to indicate that being unarmed is somehow less life threatening than being armed, and that cops are not just human beings with guns and the backing of a corrupt justice system. With such options as I see today, lawlessness would be a welcome reprieve.


“The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.”
- Tacitus

I'd say you should be armed and skilled, but you should never count out the possibility that you may lose a fight - armed or not. I agree that there's corruption, but in today's non-homogenous societies it beats lawlessness. A good combo of self-defense and a good relationship with LEO should work to your advantage.

WookieMan says

mell says

Cops do prevent crime simply with their appearance.

Yes, cops do serve a purpose. The blue "shield/bubble" causes them more problems than good though. And then their unions try to protect the behavior of the few.

I respect cops and know many. My father just passed recently and the police chief of a small city (~200k residents) came to the services. So I'm close with cops. My sister works close with the police as an attorney for that city. Most are good, but the protection of the bad ones is sickening. I don't have an answer for it, but there needs to be more oversight of police departments, especially smaller ones.

Unfortunately some cops are criminals themselves and they're not very good at policing themselves.

Agreed, it's always a trade-off though. I don't think American cops are as corrupt as the media makes them out to be. Most are decent as you said, some have to be part of a corrupt system and some are personally corrupt. Some make good money with little risk or work but I would not want to switch. It's not a dream job either. You'll know once you have to go on street patrol in Oakland.

mell says

I don't think American cops are as corrupt as the media makes them out to be.

The media picks out specific high profile events though. Which yes, it makes them look biased. I was more talking the lower level harassment and power trip some of them are on. Most of it illegal, but basically unenforceable from the victims standpoint. My sister in law has been solicited for sex to get out of a ticket. That's where I'm coming from. In a he said, she said environment with a cop, they'll take the cops side 95% of the time. A dumber/poorer girl may have obliged to get out of it. It's a no win situation for the person on the receiving end.

I've had my own issues too. Unfortunately the female cop was not attractive, but I've been searched extensively by the ISP here in IL. I volunteered to her request to search my car as I had nothing illegal in there and it was just a speeding offense. Needless to say I was heavily "petted" (searched) myself when I thought it was just going to be a vehicle search. Again, speeding 10-15 over the limit. I don't know what her end goal was... it wasn't policing, that's for sure.

All I'll say is dash cam for the car. Invest in one and your interactions with police will change. It's these lower level things that happen that are the problem. The abuse of power when it involves minor things. The major stuff is almost always blown out of proportion. Like a gun wielding whacko gets shot by a cop and the media portrays the cop as bad. WTF were they supposed to do?

NuttBoxer says

Cops don't stop crime, they document it.

I wish - they even do not document much these days. One friend of mine called on cops when his neighbors from a Latin youth group Salva Mara trucha were shooting automatic weapons in air in city limits. Cops did not show up. Called second time and then third time on a different day and same result. After that police told him "Mr. Martinez, we are tired of you".
Don't know if cops were scared or in dole of youth group business providing low-income neighborhoods with specific chemical substances. I am confident also that the youth group is here perfectly legally and that putting a sign in neighborhood saying "firearms prohibited" would stop random firing of AK-47 in air.

d6rB says

NuttBoxer says

Cops don't stop crime, they document it.

I wish - they even do not document much these days. One friend of mine called on cops when his neighbors from a Latin youth group Salva Mara trucha were shooting automatic weapons in air in city limits. Cops did not show up. Called second time and then third time on a different day and same result. After that police told him "Mr. Martinez, we are tired of you".
Don't know if cops were scared or in dole of youth group business providing low-income neighborhoods with specific chemical substances. I am confident also that the youth group is here perfectly legally and that putting a sign in neighborhood saying "firearms prohibited" would stop random firing of AK-47 in air.

In CA sometimes you have to call a number if they don't take your police report of a low-damage car break-in. 8-4 during business hours which is more like 11-2 in reality.

mell says

In CA sometimes you have to call a number if they don't take your police report of a low-damage car break-in. 8-4 during business hours which is more like 11-2 in reality.

This is TX - our cops are probably more crooked than your's and there is zero recourse against them.
I told this guy to stop calling police - he is a dead man if youth group finds out.