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1   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2019 Jul 12, 8:48am   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Remember when they said they would stop apprehending fare evaders?

If I lived there, I would have stopped paying fare as well. I would ran a campaign to implored my fellow travelers to not pay the fare either.
There's can't be two set of rules.
2   Hugolas_Madurez   ignore (4)   2019 Jul 12, 9:26am   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tenpoundbass says
Remember when they said they would stop apprehending fare evaders?

If I lived there, I would have stopped paying fare as well. I would ran a campaign to implored my fellow travelers to not pay the fare either.
There's can't be two set of rules.


That was a start of reparations, silly!
3   Automan Empire   ignore (2)   2019 Jul 12, 9:49am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Glad they are enforcing fares, it's a great way to keep the riff-raff level down.

They lost me at Broken Windows theory, a darling of law enforcement and conservative thinkers. Time and again it has been shown that it's not the strict enforcement of petty laws that underlies the improvements proponents claim, but increased community involvement and inclusion.
4   OccasionalCortex   ignore (3)   2019 Jul 12, 10:31am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Automan Empire says
They lost me at Broken Windows theory, a darling of law enforcement and conservative thinkers. Time and again it has been shown that it's not the strict enforcement of petty laws that underlies the improvements proponents claim, but increased community involvement and inclusion.


Funny how it worked when Rudy Giuliani implemented it as Police Commissioner, then. And they tracked the data down to the street level in most cases.
5   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (5)   2019 Jul 12, 10:36am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Automan Empire says
Glad they are enforcing fares, it's a great way to keep the riff-raff level down.

They lost me at Broken Windows theory, a darling of law enforcement and conservative thinkers. Time and again it has been shown that it's not the strict enforcement of petty laws that underlies the improvements proponents claim, but increased community involvement and inclusion.


Where is that shown?

When LA was arresting the homeless for urinating in public, blocking the sidewalks, etc, the homeless population on skid row dropped under 2,500. That was in 2011 at the height of the Depression. Now it’s quadrupled and has gotten so out of control, the city can’t work, build, or arrest its way out.

Show me a study that shows broken windows theory is wrong and I’ll show you a leftist author who plays fast and loose with the facts and conformed the study to obtain preconceived results.
6   Hugolas_Madurez   ignore (4)   2019 Jul 12, 10:44am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Automan Empire says
it's not the strict enforcement of petty laws that underlies the improvements proponents claim, but increased community involvement and inclusion.


I understand how preventing some punks from jumping gates makes them physically unable to mug anyone on BART. I don't understand how "involvement" and "inclusion" would achieve the same goal. How exactly does this fluff work?
7   OccasionalCortex   ignore (3)   2019 Jul 12, 10:48am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

They downplay/hide when bad things happen on BART. Like when people commit suicide-by-BART-train.

This is what happens in UK, Germany and Sweden pretty much with regards to ALL violent crimes.
8   Automan Empire   ignore (2)   2019 Jul 12, 12:01pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Hugolas_Madurez says
I don't understand how "involvement" and "inclusion" would achieve the same goal. How exactly does this fluff work?


The problem here is the article invoked Broken Windows Theory as if it was relevant in the microcosm of the Bart system.

As a method of governing entire neighborhoods and cities, Broken Windows has been proven to boost measurable short term metrics like arrest and code enforcement numbers, but at a terrible cost of worsening individual investment and connection within the community, thus worsening the underlying causes of lawbreaking both petty and major. Its discrediting and replacement with a holistic community based approach was told to me BY POLICE OFFICERS in a business neighborhood watch type of group.

What actually works is incentivizing and strengthening community ties, making the local residents increasingly want to take care of things themselves, as opposed to the us-versus-them, stick only approach of solving problems through aggressive enforcement of laws and codes.
9   OccasionalCortex   ignore (3)   2019 Jul 12, 12:08pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Automan Empire says
As a method of governing entire neighborhoods and cities, Broken Windows has been proven to boost measurable short term metrics like arrest and code enforcement numbers, but at a terrible cost of worsening individual investment and connection within the community, thus worsening the underlying causes of lawbreaking both petty and major.


Wrong! NY City crime rates over all dropped drastically. That in turn improved quality of life and investment in the community.

Automan Empire says
What actually works is incentivizing and strengthening community ties, making the local residents increasingly want to take care of things themselves, as opposed to the us-versus-them


That is true in and of itself, but does not disprove Broken Windows Theory.
10   Automan Empire   ignore (2)   2019 Jul 12, 4:23pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

OccasionalCortex says
Wrong! NY City crime rates over all dropped drastically.


At great cost, I'm afraid. New York's actions in the name of broken windows theory are what gave it a bad name, and stop-and-frisk was controversial, expensive for the taxpayers, and I believe ultimately found unconstitutional. That, overzealous code enforcement departments, and Zero Tolerance policies are all malevolent outgrowths of poorly implemented Broken Windows programs.

The core of our difference here is that the definition Sociologists use for Broken Windows differs greatly from the Law Enforcement and popular usage of the term.
11   Booger   ignore (3)   2019 Jul 13, 5:21am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Diversity!

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