patrick.net

This topic is fascinating. I recently discussed this with my family in America. They are highly educated and earn seven figures. They agree that European socialized health care is more effective, better and cheaper. Nonetheless, they don't want it on principle. One family member simply did not want poor people or unemployed people getting free healthcare whether or not his own and everyone else's was cheaper. The other was worried about profits in the medical industry (that person is a health care professional, an MD).
Americans love their "Better dead than red" bumper stickers and believe in it wholeheartedly, even to the point of suffering for it. The US healthcare system is designed to enrich HMO's and pharmaceutical companies. Apparently that is what America wants rather than health. Americans are fucking stupid.

I heard that toilets are a luxury in Pakistan.

Expat says

One family member simply did not want poor people or unemployed people getting free healthcare whether or not his own and everyone else's was cheaper.

You're wrong. I'm well-to-do and I don't want gov't healthcare because it's shittier quality. It's expensive today because of corruption in the medical industry, but also because we subsidize free care given to millions each year, including illegal aliens. Don't spin things in a way to make yourself feel sanctimonious.

US citizens are funding medical research throughout the world. If we didn't pay ridiculously high prices for new drugs there would be very limited research. I'd rather we did what the rest of the world did and have low drug prices. So what if no new drugs are invented — the earth has plenty of people already.

US medical practice licensing is far too restrictive and expensive. Again, the rest of the world does much better with respect to costs. Why are the number of medical schools so low and the price of medical school is so high? MDs thwart any changes in law that would lower the value of their certification. For example: nurse practitioners could handle 80% of all doctor visits via walk-in clients in a pharmacy setting.

That said, I was recently thinking about quitting my job and was looking at cost of medical insurance. Wow, Obamacare is terrible: $6500/year for coverage that doesn't even kick in until I've spent $6500/year out of pocket! The silver plan is $9000/year and has drug co-pays that exceed the costs you get over-the-counter in many other parts of the world.

SunnyvaleCA says

Wow, Obamacare is terrible: $6500/year for coverage that doesn't even kick in until I've spent $6500/year out of pocket! The silver plan is $9000/year and has drug co-pays that exceed the costs you get over-the-counter in many other parts of the world.

Mine costs more, but it’s paid for by my company in one of those “Cadillac” plans for union members. Actually the company just contributes to a union run fund that buys it for a much larger group. I do not know what it costs, but my copay is $3 and I have no deductible at all. Everything is covered. For my whole family. Nothing out of pocket.
Just try to sell me a government plan! Not interested!

Overtime yes.

Usually takes a few years.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

Medicare for all = HEAD! SHOT!s for the sick.

SunnyvaleCA says

exceed the costs you get over-the-counter in many other parts of the world.

You salary here FAR exceeds what you'd get in "many other parts of the world".

Government isn’t known for better and cheaper anything.

Iranian_Oil_Burse says

SunnyvaleCA says

exceed the costs you get over-the-counter in many other parts of the world.

You salary here FAR exceeds what you'd get in "many other parts of the world".

So you are saying I have to pay more for everything because I have a higher salary? That seems to defeat the purpose of having a higher salary. My point was that the "insurance" is a ripoff when the co-pay I have to pay is more than the full cost of drugs without any insurance at all. There's no reason why a drug in Mexico should be 1/4 the cost as it is here other than that our medical care is a ripoff.

SunnyvaleCA says

So you are saying I have to pay more for everything because I have a higher salary?

This is how market works, yes. Higher salaries in the area lift all prices. Engineers making more than engineers abroad means that doctors have to make more too. And nurses. And admins. And even janitors and burger flippers. And so on and so forth. All this is getting rolled into prices for food, shelter, medical care.

PS. My company actually cuts salaries of engineers who move to cheaper locations. Reason being: you are paid what you are paid here not only because of YOU, but also because of HERE.

Iranian_Oil_Burse says

SunnyvaleCA says

So you are saying I have to pay more for everything because I have a higher salary?

This is how market works, yes. Higher salaries in the area lift all prices.

This is the "purchasing power parity" figure. PPP for Mexico is just over 2x according to Wikipedia. Wow, I'm surprised it's that high. However, it's also an average figure for a country, and not distributed evenly over all goods and services. Something like drugs, which are generally highly stable and can be mass produced and shipped around the world easily, should be less affected by PPP than services and perishable products.

With something like drugs, the costs in the USA are very high because we, as a nation, aren't vigorously pushing back against price gouging. I mentioned Mexico prices because Mexican drugs are available with some effort (and I don't even speak Spanish). If you read this website, then obviously you know that here in California we are practically living in Mexico as we speak.

But look at other OECD countries and the prices they pay for drugs. You can't argue that the PPP of Switzerland or Germany is much different than 1.0. Yet their drug prices are often much lower.

SunnyvaleCA says

But look at other OECD countries and the prices they pay for drugs. You can't argue that the PPP of Switzerland or Germany is much different than 1.0. Yet their drug prices are often much lower.

I can't argue anything because I have no reliable information wrt drug prices in Germany or Switzerland. I know for a fact, though, that engineers are paid waaay less in Germany (have no idea about Switzerland again).