patrick.net

My apology to the Mercury News, I am still learning how to use the window for making a post.
I interspersed my comments with quote from the newspaper, but the spaces between the quotes were absent.

It should have looked like this

That was the small print headline of the small article on page B3 of yesterday’s SJ Mercury News. Here is some of what it said:

” The Cupertino Union School District board of trustees voted to increase the number of students in its first-, second- and third-grade classrooms as part of a cost-cutting measure that could save the district $ 3 million."

Jeez, some folks are paying such a premium in their house payment (or, in the case of the rich immigrants who bought recently, paid such a big chunk of their wealth) and property tax for the privilege of that Cupertino Schools appellation.

”Dozens of frustrated parents worried about the impacts of larger class sizes overflowed the district office board room and had to listen to the meeting on speakers set up in the halls”.

Soon they may not get the full entitlement of what they’re paying for. A different approach could have been to live in a lower cost neighborhood and pay the premium as tuition at private schools.

This is a brilliant post and one of the reasons I'm waiting to buy. I am curious to see how all these blue chip suburban neighborhoods hold up once their public school systems lose their state funding, and the communities cannot funnel enough money into the schools to make up the difference. In a bigger class, you will see a lot more students struggle to keep up, with less individualized attention.

Everyone I know who moves to these areas do so for the high quality public schools to save on 2 or 3 private school tuitions. Its going to be very interesting how these communities respond to the deep budget cuts. PTA's and foundations just are not funded enough to make up the difference.

Increasing class sizes to the standard 1978-82 size will be more impactful than anyone expects. Mainstreaming was much less common thirty years ago. Now most classrooms have one or more students who need a lot of one-on-one attention in order to move forward. It is really difficult for a teacher to manage a couple of high-need kids in addition to a classroom of 18 or 19 other moderate-need kids. It will be harder still for one teacher to manage 25 kids, including maybe two or three or even four high-need kids. Numbers don't tell the whole story. The mix of kids within a classroom makes a big difference with regard to the education each kid receives. And imho each child deserves to have a decent education whether the are high-need, moderate-need, or brilliant and bored. I just don't know how the state can afford to provide the kids with the education they deserve.

HalfSgima's political platform suggests the following for education:

"Education

A primary mission of public education for the bottom half of the students should be the teaching of middle class values.

Children should be sorted by their intellectual ability. Smart children should be in separate classes and, even better, separate schools.

A voucher system would be good if it offered any parent money back if they send their child to a private school, but I’m opposed to means-tested vouchers, and the two educational principles mentioned above are more important than vouchers.

Supplement college degrees with tests people can take to demonstrate actual knowledge. Base all government hiring on these tests and ignore degrees. The private sector would follow.

Make student loans subject to bankruptcy protection like all other debt. "

http://www.halfsigma.com/2009/11/half-sigma-political-platform.html

I don't endorse his ideas, as I don't really have much of a clue as to what should be done about education. This is just some food for thought.

hmm, I just sampled a random block of 12 homes close to Apple.

Average zillow value of $1,026,500, average property tax of $4,800, for an effective 0.5% tax rate.

There’s part of the problem right there. Anybody who bought prior to say 1998 can just rent out their property to renters, whose kids get dumped on the schools while the landlord pockets the sky-high rent for the quality schools.

Thanks, Howard Jarvis, you were a f----ing genius. Two of the 12 houses were paying close to 1% tax rates, while 5 were 0.3% or less. I’m not a big fan of high taxes on owner-occupied SFH, but if it’s rented out or a fifth house, it needs to be taxed punitively to discourage this parasitical behavior.

Class sizes are supposed to be 30-40 students per class. Teachers make way too much money these days, and having all these excess teachers is really only padding the pockets of their unions.

I rented a house in the Cupertino-Union school district (west side of 95129) last year, sending my kids to Kindergarten and 2nd grade in a "10" rated school there. The rent was $3,100 per month for a box built in the late '60s with very little in upgrades. It was literally right around the corner from the school.

My kids were previously in a school ranked a "6", which I wasn't unhappy with, but I had to move due to my short sale. So I figured I'd give myself a shorter commute and send my kids to a Cupertino-Union school. Win-Win, right?

Well, not so. The short commute was nice, but I wasn't wowed by the school. The Kindergarten program was a huge disappointment. The teacher taught nothing. The kids learned because of the extra tutoring the parents were paying for outside of school. The teacher was able to be lazy because she knew she wouldn't be held accountable. This was the first eye opener. The 2nd grade teachers actually taught, but I was expecting a lot more out of a "10" school than the "6", but it really didn't seem much different.

So my wife and I talked it over and decided the premium to live in that school district wasn't worth it. Our experience with the "6" grounded us so that we could objectively compare it to the "10", and the "10" was simply not worth it.

What I think happens with parents in the Cupertino-Union district (among other top rated districts) is that none of them would even consider a "6", thinking it would be a third-world education. Plus, they tend to supplement their children's education with tutoring, and it's very well that tutoring that is making them advanced. In my opinion, it sure isn't the school.

I can tell you that a "6" can provide a very good and grounded education. Our kids are back in a "6" now, and our rent is substantially lower. They are stress free and doing very well. My now first grader learned more in three months in the "6" school than in a full year in the "10". My commute is longer, but I'm OK with that.

But my revelation about the fallacy of the "10" schools is probably not an experiment many other parents would consider, so I fully expect rents and home prices in those areas to remain obscene.

The Berkeley Schools Excellence Project (BSEP) is the parcel tax measure that generates $10 million dollars annually for the Berkeley School District. Approximately $1,110 per pupil.
Obviously, the citizens of Crapertino are under[parcel]taxed as:
The deficits take into account a $125 per parcel tax that was passed by voters in May 2009. The tax brings $4 million in estimated funds to the district. Approximately $228 per pupil.
I got the enrollment stats from www.kidsdata.org
Cupertino Union enrollment: 17,581 (total population: 55k)
Berkeley Unified enrollment: 8,988 (total populaion: 107k)

stocksjustgroup, Curious if you are a first gen. immigrant.

No, not an immigrant, unless you trace my family back to the late 1800s. lol

I'm as white as the box I'm typing this reply in, and we stood out there, but it didn't bother me.

stocksjustgoup, That's what I figured. First generation immigrants use education as a stepping stone to leave their country of origin, so you can see why they place a high value on education. This, unfortunately, means they're not necessarily as pragmatic about certain decisions regarding their childrens' education. Nice to hear an insiders view of Crapertino; buy now and be priced in forever. Wonder if that article is making it's way through the various mafias...

I think one of the larger reasons a school is successful is due to the way parents handle their kids at home, and what they expect from their kids. Other kids tend to pick up on successful behavior and copy it, including what goals other successful people have. It has less to do with the school/district and more to do with the expectations of the parents on their kids and what expectations their kids friends have.

A child in a "6" school could do just as well, but they need to have their own initiative and need to overcome the potentially less positive environment.

Parents who believes they can just dump their kids off in a school and get the best education possible, without seriously dumping some of their own time into it, are going to be unhappy with the results.

I think it's more about who your kids are around, and what they expect from life/school due to the others present, than the actual teachers. Parents who consider education very important, congregate around schools who do well, they in turn put high expectations on their kids and those kids expectations rub off on others. I'm betting some of these schools do well because of that.

pkennedy says

I think it’s more about who your kids are around, and what they expect from life/school due to the others present, than the actual teachers. Parents who consider education very important, congregate around schools who do well, they in turn put high expectations on their kids and those kids expectations rub off on others. I’m betting some of these schools do well because of that.

Cant agree more. I live in sunnyvale under CUSD, 94087 to be exact, but rent a nice duplex for 2000. I want to provide the competitive environment, its up to them to figure where they want to go. The reason I want to be in that area is not only because of schools, every possible extra-curricular activities, swimming, karate, dance, singing to name a few are available at your feet. So, I am more inclined to ask them to try it if they like. Another reason is low crime area. So, I in particular am renting there not just because of school, but for the environment as a whole.

Oh..BTW, the link for the OP is:

http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area-news/ci_14174011

I want to provide the competitive environment
Well, they'll have to compete with 29 other kids for the teachers attention. BTW, nice job on the rental; you're certainly coming out ahead compared to those who bought into the madness.

thomas.wong89 says

The admins for the CU found out a few years ago that many enrolled students were
actually outside of the district lines.

I doubt if this happens to a large extent. Now, the district requires two proofs like lease agreement and utility bill.

pkennedy says

others present, than the actual teachers. Parents who consider education very important, congregate around schools who do well, they in turn put high expectations on their kids and those kids expectations rub off on others. I’m betting some of these schools do well because of that.

This is fair logic, and by taking this as truth, theoretically, if you got enough parents together, they could, en masse, move to a lower performing district, play much less for their homes, and by sheer mass automatically improve the schools they send their kids to.

My whole point about a "10" versus a "6" was to say that there really isn't anything necessarily special about the schools. It's the attitudes, expectations, and involvement of the parents. You can have high expectations and high involvement in any school.

lookforevan,

It is easier done than done if you haven't carried moneybags from overseas to "buy-in" to the zones with the Highest Standardized Test Scores. Those rich immigrants shop the test scores because rather than throwing human capital at the daily grind of parenting and being involved they can instead throw money capital at the Highest Standardized Test Scores and the Concomitant Tutoring. Coming from Standardized Test Score Centric cultures helps; the kids will Conform.

That approach doesn't go over as well with kids of families with more mainstream-assimiliated cultural perspectives. Those kinds of kids respond better to a paradigm of parental involvement than to the paradigm described in the paragraph above.

This is fair logic, and by taking this as truth, theoretically, if you got enough parents together, they could, en masse, move to a lower performing district, play much less for their homes, and by sheer mass automatically improve the schools they send their kids to.
Due to urbanization trends, this is what has happened in places like Berkeley, parts of SF, and, to a lesser extent, Oakland (although Oakland, at this point, would probably be the only place you could pay less for your home, and, come high school, may choose to go private). Looking through the Cupertino elementary API scores, it was interesting to see some of the schools where Asian (majority) was the only subgroup that they broke out as all the other subgroups did not have enough students to be a relevant sample size. sybrib and evan, I enjoyed the back and forth (well, said).

stocksjustgoup says

I can tell you that a "6" can provide a very good and grounded education.

Don't laugh at me, but my son is 5. I selected a "6" preschool for him. It was half the price of the most of the expensive "10" schools that I toured. I would say that there was some variability in the more expensive schools. Many were pretty crappy. There was one preschool that was about $1200 a month that looked potentially better than the 6 I chose at 800 a month. I went with the one I chose thinking that young kids might benefit more from a play centered experience than something as structured as the $1200 school. I was thinking that I would watch how he was doing and could always change over to the other school if I was not pleased with how it went.

I was also thinking that 400 dollars a month could buy some experiences/tutoring/etc. that might be good for him also. I hired a Spanish speaking babysitter who only speaks Spanish to him. (He has been in Spanish speaking day care his whole life before preschool and has had this babysitter his whole life.) That runs about 360 a month. It isn't quite as structured as a Spanish class, but it is something.

There was some concerns that I did not anticipate that ended us keeping us put even though I think academically, the $1200 school was maybe a better fit for him. I ended up valuing the friendships he had made and the safety/consistency that he experiences there. I didn't want to turn over his applecart and move him after the first year at the $800 school.
The teachers know him, love him and support him in the less structured program. Also, his current school is more structured as his goes along. In this, his final year, they are assigning homework and teaching some reading skills.

pkennedy says

think it's more about who your kids are around, and what they expect from life/school due to the others present, than the actual teachers. Parents who consider education very important, congregate around schools who do well, they in turn put high expectations on their kids and those kids expectations rub off on others. I'm betting some of these schools do well because of that.

I wonder/worry a little about this. I think there is some reality to this. I want my son around other kids and families who are achievement oriented. I want him around kids who are encouraged about learning. I don't have the best choices for elementary school, either public or private in Pacifica. I think the public schools seem fine for curriculum. I worry a little about the large class sizes. I am going to tour my one private school option later in the spring. From what I understand so far, it is more religiously based than what I would see as ideal.

There isn't a language immersion school that is within a reasonable distance that we can select.

Friend,

this is an old thread. What is a "6" preschool?

B.A.C.A.H. says

Friend,

this is an old thread. What is a "6" preschool?

http://www.greatschools.org/

Hmmm I saw the website but I didn't see something on there about a "6".

How could you have missed it!

B.A.C.A.H. says

http://www.greatschools.org/

Do a search of your zip code. Each local school will come up on a list with a 1-10 rating.

samsmom says

In a bigger class, you will see a lot more students struggle to keep up, with less individualized attention

Bullshit. I grew up in class sizes much larger than that and we got a much better education back then.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Friend,

this is an old thread. What is a "6" preschool?

It is an old thread. I did relate to some of the things that were written in it.

I was being too abstract by saying "6". What I was trying to say is a school that was a bit less academically oriented than some of the others that bragged about a lot of structure and academics. I really found preschools that cost as much as 1,900 a month. Some of the more expensive ones were more academically oriented. Some looked just awful. I picked one in the middle of the road for academic preparation.

My son will have been there for two and a half years. The fist 18 months had some learning activities, but lots of play time. This last year has been much more structured. Some introduction to reading. More structure and rules.

By "6" I was meaning to say a middle of the road school. They don't have the 1-10 ratings for preschools.