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Generational Rivalry


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2006 Aug 16, 3:05pm   21,419 views  196 comments

by Randy H   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

BoomerNation

I've always maintained that Gen-X, Gen-Y/Millenials and the infamous Boomers have more in common with one another than sets them apart. The true big divide is between the Silent Generation and the Boomers. In fact, Silents are so silent that most think themselves part of the WWII/GI/Greatest generation (even though they were in grade school during the war). It was after WWII that everything changed, after all.

So why is it that Boomers consistently piss everyone else off? Is it their willing self-identification with one another, while latter generations are more loosely bound? Is it their loud, self-proclaimed spokesmen who are unaware of their own arrogant hypocrisy? Or is it that guy who with dead certainty on Monday proclaimed to me that "no good music has been written since 1969..."

It surely couldn't be that it was you who stopped listening, thinking or caring. It has to be that everything that came after your summer of love wasn't worthy of your attention.

...

Apologies to all thinking people of every generation who claim responsibility for their own individuality. But let's have at it...

Randy H

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1   surfer-x   2006 Aug 16, 3:09pm  

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. The world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children…This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron."

—Former U.S. President, Dwight D. Eisenhower, in a speech on April 16, 1953

2   surfer-x   2006 Aug 16, 3:15pm  

Boomer circa 1969 "lets spit on these soldiers and call them baby killers"

Boomer circa 2006 "lets spit on these X'rs and call them equity killers"

3   e   2006 Aug 16, 3:18pm  

AARP

4   Glen   2006 Aug 16, 3:25pm  

Boomers then:
Dodged the draft, did too many drugs, supported high taxation to pay for their cheap subsidized public education (the kids are alright!).

Boomers Now:
Support the war, support the war on drugs, support lower taxes on their real estate capital gains and property taxes (screw the kids!).

5   surfer-x   2006 Aug 16, 3:25pm  

Ike could also see into the future,

Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we-you and I, and our government-must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.

6   surfer-x   2006 Aug 16, 3:52pm  

Why oh why can't we all just get a bong?

7   astrid   2006 Aug 16, 4:48pm  

I don't think the Boomers are particularly good or bad. They were quite lucky to be spend their entire life in America's post-war golden age. As such, they tend to be overly optimistic and overly self indulgent. When you grow up with amid relative plenty, you come to expect it. I'm sure most Americans of any age would be considered spendthrifty and self indulgent in most of Asia and Latin America. It's just social conditioning.

8   Glen   2006 Aug 16, 9:52pm  

I don’t know. I look at the 20 somethings just getting out of college and wonder “how the heck are you going to do it?”

I wonder the same thing. My brother and sister are "Gen Ys." My deeply indebted boomer parents encouraged both of them to go to college at the best schools they could get into, regardless of cost and regardless of whether they had figured out what they wanted to study.

I urged both of my siblings to think long and hard about the debt loads they will be taking on and to compare those debt loads to their future earnings prospects. I also told them that in my opinion, a four year liberal arts degree will not necessarily add materially to their future earnings prospects.

I was able to talk my sister out of attending one of the most expensive schools in the country. Her school is still pricey, but I am hoping she will be able to manage her debt load. Either that, or marry rich.

My brother ultimately decided not to go to school. He is making decent money doing specialized carpentry. He was thinking about pursuing a 4 year degree in anthropology. I know that carpentry work could be hard to find in the next few years. However, it could be even harder to find work for a budding anthropologist. The debt load just makes it that much harder. I figure that he is smart and able-bodied. He will land on his feet. But I urged him not to take on more than a couple thousand dollars in debt without having a solid plan in place for paying it back. I wouldn't want him to end up like this woman:

http://alternet.org/wiretap/39278/

All these boomers with their hyper-inflated houses do not realize that many young people are learning hard lessons about debt via student loans and credit cards. (Not to mention all the young FBs who will soon learn about the folly of unmanageable mortgage debt.) Gen X and Gen Y will be harder to sell to in the coming decades, IMO.

9   Different Sean   2006 Aug 16, 11:19pm  

no good music has been written since 1989...

10   DinOR   2006 Aug 16, 11:47pm  

LILLL,

If I'm not a boomer, how can you possibly be one? Some would argue that b/c of my age I would "marginally" qualify. This implies that I have a place in line for my share of negative stereotypes (but certainly none of the privileges). By the time I got out of the service boomer was feeling pretty good about himself, so much so in fact that he was in a generous mood and decided that it was time for quota hiring and all the other PC garbage. And why not? He/she was well established in their careers, homes etc?

I (like many) my age were NOT afforded a "screw off decade" in the Peace Corp or finding myself? through drugs and alcohol as was Mr. Reno. Seriously dude? You were able to have a "lost decade" and STILL had time to turn things around? (Through your hard work, dedication and unquestionable work ethic no doubt)!

Unlike true boomers or shall we say "sweet spot" boomers we didn't have a minute to spare (let alone a decade to burn). My wife (that's wife btw boomer, not "old lady", girlfriend or "room mate") would have never consented to having our children spend the night ANYWHERE! Period. They are our children, and they belong sleeping in their own home. Sorry.

11   FormerAptBroker   2006 Aug 16, 11:49pm  

As someone born in the early 60’s I have never considered myself a boomer.

Growing up on the Peninsula in the late 60’s and early 70’s I saw drugs hit hard and screw up a lot of kids.

Patty Hearst got the most press of the screwed up boomer kids in my neighborhood, but many were even more screwed up…

I recently read an article on “San Francisco’s aging Homeless”… Almost all the “Homeless” aka Drunk Drugged out Bums are Boomers…

What scares me if it looks like the cycle is repeating with High School kids today dressing (and using as many drugs) as their Boomer parents did in the 70’s…

12   Different Sean   2006 Aug 16, 11:58pm  

politicians made good speeches up until about 1965...

13   Different Sean   2006 Aug 17, 12:00am  

I can’t imagine being the average college grad in 2006.

- Highest level of student loan debt in history as a group.
- Graduating into a questionable job market.
- No prospects for buying a home in the near future.
- An attitude on debt and spending thats carefree at best, ultimately self-defeating at worst.

this would seem to spell the end of the housing boom to me... forget about it going up 10% every year without fail -- what happens when the money runs out in Gen Y? hmm, except for inheritances...

14   DinOR   2006 Aug 17, 12:05am  

FAB,

I hear ya! I was actually born in 1959 which TODAY almost everyone now considers a boomer? Really? When Woodstock took place I had another 4 years until the onset of puberty. It wasn't until I got out of the service in 1989 I learned I was now bestowed with the honor of being a boomer. (Well, not full fledged card carryin' boomer of course) more like boomer "junior" with no hope of ever really graduating). See, even as the original boomers die off we'll still be "late boomers", "echo boomers", "cusper boomers" etc. etc. What? WTF? You're serious right?

Uh, even if you were to NOW make me a bona fide member what if I don't want to be? Is it too late for me to join the BA's "aging homeless"?

15   DinOR   2006 Aug 17, 12:21am  

Let's get a quick read here. What is the longest period of your life you able to afford to remain idle, un-employed, intoxicated or otherwise useless? Please count any periods of severe "under employment" that not only involved menial jobs (we've all done that) but also involved re-hab/de-tox/court supervised release?

I'll kick it off:

June 6th to August 12th (summer after HS grad.) Enlisted August 13th.

16   speedingpullet   2006 Aug 17, 12:24am  

Yikes! According to Wikipedia I'm also a Boomer! And a member of the Beat Generation, Generation Jones, Baby Buster and an elderly member of Gen X too.

Now I'm confused.

Glenn - I admire your brother for learning something useful. The world will always need good carpenters, no matter outscourcing or mass production. When things start to get tight (recession, anyone?) his skills will help him. At least he can make his own furniture, which is more than most people can do.

I also went into a trade as a teenager - specialised in reproducing antique picture frames from the wood to the finished product - and know I can always fall back on my skills should I ever need to.
As for college, if he's still really interested in anthroplogy, then there's nothing to stop him from getting a degree a class at a time while he's working.

Over in the UK there's an educational organisation called the Open University, which specialises in distance and part-time learning, designed for people who have jobs they can't/won't quit to go to college. Surprisingly, employers are normally impressed with an OU degree - for a start they show the person has the neccessary drive to get one (they can take up to 6 years to pass), and the academic level is very high. If your brother still want to learn anthropolgy, there are ways to do it and still work.

17   Different Sean   2006 Aug 17, 12:24am  

What is the longest period of your life you able to afford to remain idle, un-employed, intoxicated or otherwise useless?

Does that include uni?

18   praetorian   2006 Aug 17, 12:25am  

Thank your lucky stars you weren’t born into the circumstances of the other 50% of the planet that gets by on $2 per day.

Rather.

The boomers are merely the logical conclusion to the destruction of the wests (admittedly mouldering) apollonian and Christian inheritance begun in the late 1800's and emphatically completed on the fields of northern france. What could we expect from the first generation to experience utter, terrifying freedom, which is to say utter, terrifying rootlessness, on a mass scale? Frankly, the fact that it ended up as well as it did is a challenge to my world view.

Still, it's hard not to despise the side effects, isn't it?

Cheers,
prat

19   speedingpullet   2006 Aug 17, 12:25am  

Could someone 'unmoderate' me? I don't think I've made any unsuitable comments....

20   speedingpullet   2006 Aug 17, 12:28am  

Thank you :-)

21   Michael Holliday   2006 Aug 17, 12:33am  

"I'm gonna' have my kicks before the whole sh-thouse goes up in flames."

--Jim Morrisson

I'm not sure if Morrison was a Boomer, but those sure are Baby Boomer sentiments If I've ever seen 'em.

22   praetorian   2006 Aug 17, 12:35am  

You’re out of moderation speedingpullet.

Speeding Mullet would be a great name for an 80's cover band...

Prat! Good to “see” you, even for a brief visit.

Thank you. Good to see the old crew still banging the drum. Now that we are seeing YoY declines (Can I get a sac-TOWN in the house?) I feel like there is something new to talk about. Watching this market turn got pretty boring over the last year (especially since I had been ranting on the topic since 2003.)

Wrong for two and a half long years (nearly 10% of my life!), but now, *now* revenge is mine!

Ahem. My wife is looking at me funny again. Perhaps delurking wasn't such a good idea...

Cheers,
prat

23   praetorian   2006 Aug 17, 12:44am  

Just us die hards who can’t seem to let go…

I prefer to think of y'all as the marines: first ones in, last ones out.

BTW, I was up in sac the past two weekends. I'm thinking that soon it will be cheaper for the newspaper to list the homes *not* for sale.

Cheers,
prat

24   DinOR   2006 Aug 17, 12:52am  

SQT,

My point exactly! The roughly 9 weeks between grad. and enlistment were b/c of the Navy's schedule (not mine) but dad still insisted I get a job for the summer if I was going to live in his house!

I hear/continue to hear "sweet spot" boomers fondly reminisce about lengthy and unending periods in their lives where they were beholden to no one. I've yet to find it.

25   speedingpullet   2006 Aug 17, 1:40am  

I don't know about that, goober.

I know its wierd, but I actually enjoy being the age I am.
OK, so not having the body of a goddess anymore kind of sucks, but I'm still healthy and reasonably fit. All those years of physical labour (I didn't have a 'sit down' job until after 30) means that I'm stronger and tougher than many my age and younger.
While I may not be perky and pretty by today's standards - i'm wiser and more content with my life. As much as I enjoyed my youth, I'm excited about what's coming up, not what's behind me.

Call me old fashioned. I'm glad I don't have to do it all again.

26   DinOR   2006 Aug 17, 1:45am  

Robert C,

LOL! You know, I think SQT kind of nailed it when she said that *most* stereotypes start with a foundation of truth. It really grinds me when I see boomers that go out of their way to keep those stereotypes alive! What kind of sick person goes out of their way to find their grungiest tie-dyed shirt and put their hair in a pony tail (while driving a classic muscle car) just to "live up" to the hype? I thought the 60's were about "individualism".

27   skibum   2006 Aug 17, 1:57am  

Cote is right, in his usual obfuscating way. Each generation has it's bad apples (obvious statement, I know). The terms "Boomer" and "Gen-X" have now pretty much become epithets, and they don't really reflect the majority of Americans born during those years. The Boomer issue is just accentuated by the sheer mass number of people that fit the age group.

28   skibum   2006 Aug 17, 1:59am  

SFWoman Says:

I read the previous thread, where the man (probably troll) said his son had died of SIDS at 5. I have never heard of a non-infant dying of SIDS, but, if the guy is telling the truth, it is possible his son just died in his sleep, and a doctor told him crib death, which years ago was the equivalent of ‘who knows?’.

I had a guy in my high school die in his sleep for no reason. They did a full toxicology screen (he didn’t do drugs anyway), looked for stroke, found nothing. He just died.

In that age group, cardiac arrhythmia is the most likely etiology. May be inherited, like Long QT syndrome. I'd suggest getting the rest of the family screened.

(Not medical advice).

29   Randy H   2006 Aug 17, 2:19am  

I was hesitant to start this thread, for the reasons I stated. Of course generational distinctions are mostly arbitrary.

But I do think the "Boomer" notion is one that is really a symbol for a major turning point in the cultures of Western anglo economies. Notice how much disagreement there is about where Boomers end and Xers start, but how much unanimity there is about when it started.

In my mind the "Boomer" label really describes a curve that hit its maxima right after the great war, and has been slowly tailing off ever since. The reason later "generations" get pissed off is that they are in an increasingly smaller part of a very long tail.

30   Glen   2006 Aug 17, 2:34am  

Business Week magazine has an article in its current edition--not yet on the website, apparenty--which looks at the career challenges faced by "Gen X." The gist of the article is that the sheer number of boomers means that most Xers work for boomer bosses and find it hard to move up in their careers. The same "crowding out" phenomenon can be observed in the housing market.

Although Gen X and Y will not likely inherit anything from their profligate parents, they may be able to buy a cheap house from one of those savings-short boomers with a 10 year useful working life and a 30 year "trade-up" mortgage a few years from now....

Unless, of course, boomers find one more way to rig the system to favor themselves before the crunch really starts to hurt. I have my doubts that they will be able to pull this off, though. There are 77M of them, compared to 300M Americans in total. By the time the boomers are all in their 60s and 70s (or dead), they will make up much less than half of the voting population. The rest will be disaffected youth.

31   Randy H   2006 Aug 17, 2:45am  

Glen,

There was an article some months back in the FT Weekend about the growing vacuum of upper management in corporate America. The conclusions were that many Xers did not move up, as you said, because of middle/upper management crowding. Now, as boomers retire, they are vacating not just executive and upper mgt positions, but most middle mgt positions. But there is a broad perception that Xers are not properly credentialed/experienced/corp-culture-indoctrinated to take those roles.

The solution being implemented by many corps is to keep 'boomers' around longer, often as consultants on retainer, and primary to train Yers to fasttrack into management.

I think the article was called something like "The Lost Generation of Corp Mgt".

32   Glen   2006 Aug 17, 3:38am  

Lilll,

The flippers have landed in NC:

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/rfs/186842569.html

33   DinOR   2006 Aug 17, 3:40am  

MA,

A few posts back *praetorian* felt it might be easier for the newspapers in Sacramento to simply list the homes that are *not* for sale!

Is this quite come to fruition in Bend just yet?

I do believe that that a great many sellers fully realize their goose is cooked and are absolutely trying to get out while they still have some level of profitability. Funny thing is (unless you CAN sell it by yourself) you may ALREADY be at 2004 if not 2003 prices! Since there's no way you can sell for what you paid in '05, then factor in a 6% comm. and a Hummer and Hello 2003! And it's not even Labor Day (when things trad. quite down). This could be my best Labor Day since the 90's! In fact barring some kind of......... nevermind. BEST Labor Day since 1999!

34   DinOR   2006 Aug 17, 3:50am  

LILLL,

One of the main differences is that YOU'RE HERE! Boomers HAVE to believe in the bubble (you don't).

I was at a client mtg. yesterday with the CPA. He owns multiple smaller bus. so his taxes and inv. are complicated. I wish you could have been there when he told this graying account boomer gal RE had peaked! She turned and looked at me like she was mother and I just told the little neighbor boy where babies "really come from"! (Anyone remeber THAT look?). Anyway turns out she's quite the bubble believer herself. Multiple rentals here in OR as well as several in TX.

This is absolutely what she DOESN'T need to hear right now. This lead to the meetings swift and notably quieter conclusion.

35   DinOR   2006 Aug 17, 3:56am  

MA!

Woo-hoo! I'm gonna party like it's 1999! (Labor Day 1999 that is)!

6 out of 16 are "lock boxed"? Maybe if they put in a brazilian cherry hardwood floor entry that would do the trick! Maybe it's a good time to be buying instead of selling? At some point? At some point? At some point your neighbor has to put the crack pipe down and get some fresh air!

36   Claire   2006 Aug 17, 4:01am  

I could be a land baron there!! Buy the whole block....well maybe not.

37   Claire   2006 Aug 17, 4:02am  

Detroit that is, not Bend

38   HARM   2006 Aug 17, 4:03am  

Wow. Leave it to work to load me up right when we have one of the best threads posted in a long time --and on one of my favorite subjects no less.
Damn work interfering with my blogging! Oh well... it does pay for my sad pathetic rental.

Prat, welcome back! Please stay a while --never mind what the wife thingks.

X - Count me in for whatever day you choose for SoCal Blog Part II.

39   DinOR   2006 Aug 17, 4:04am  

It was so parental I had a hard time not laughing!

Where do you come off spreading this kind of irresponsible.......... gossip! How dare you infect our mutual client's mind with the the the......... truth?

These flippers haven't just already spent the money (they've already scripted their exodus from the work force)! A few more aquisitions or a few more flips and they'd be made in the shade! But Noooooooo! It's people like YOU that are going to ruin it for the rest of us with your negative attitude!

(Never mind that shortly it will be THEM creating the biggest inventory since the creation of man)!

40   Joe Schmoe   2006 Aug 17, 4:06am  

I know not everyone here is religious, but call it divine retribution, karma, whatever you want – I swear we are seeing the hand of God smite the Boomers and take all their wealth away just a year or two before the first ones retire.

He’s giving the later Boomers, who aren’t nearly as bad as the first wave, a chance to repent and be saved by giving them a glimpse into the Abyss. They have several years before their own retirement and still have time to prepare -- if they heed this divine warning.

As for the enslaved Gen-X’ers, we are at last being led out of Egypt. The red sea is parting! I'm not saying that we Gen-X'ers are the Chosen People -- we're sinners too -- but at least we are being delivered from bondage!

I have never beleived that the Woodstock generation would be able to skate forever. The day of reckoning is at hand!

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