patrick.net

speaking as a georgist, I truly hope you die in a fire : )

WC Fields take on Realtors: "I like Realtors......when they are properly cooked".

yeah, i had a CB realtor like that once too.....he/she also threatened all the neighbors with lawsuits if they talked about the 'property in question'.
...he/she also sent pictures!!! in less than 24hrs.
he/she also knew the disclosure was a pack of LIES.

...wow...i was impressed.
LOL.

What's a "georgist:?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=georgist

There has never been a better time to buy a house!

Cool that you like your realtor. She's making quite a chunk to help you buy rentals - but you're trusting someone who's salary depends upon your purchase. So far you haven't been screwed - or so you say - but you're making decisions based on her opinion.

She sold 30 properties last year? That's her job, which requires a short course and the ability to pay for a license and realtor dues. She's doing work that you could do, but choose not to. However, I'd be careful because her interest is in the sale. Buyer beware.

out of state rentals...she is my eyes and ears...blahblahblah...
This just reads too stupid to ignore!

Sure, his time is worth more. But he's investing money, sight unseen, based on someone who only gets paid if he buys something. And ultimately, she's not liable if she's wrong about something and he's stuck with a negligible asset.

I'm glad he likes his realtor and that he's happy. Maybe she is awesome. I actually helped someone about a week ago to list his house in another state. He's not able to travel and can't do it himself. There's no family to help him out. But do I trust realtors as a group? Hell no.

i can't believe that there's so much blind hate, STILL, that people will lump ALL realtors as being automatically bad=devil. Congrats for finding one of the good one's burritos

i am not a RE investor, my RE agent is a friend from when we were younger, and other friends have used him as well. i gave him some alternate information to what he was used to being fed, as he grew up in the business, and he's really taken it to head. Friends of ours are looking at stepping up, get out of the city, and expand their family. The RE agent has told them to wait to sell, or to consider renting their current house. kind of shocked me to hear, that a RE agent is advising people to not even attempt to sell now, especially with the mad rush that was supposedly occurring last time the Gov't free money credit was poised to expire.

errc says

kind of shocked me to hear, that a RE agent is advising people to not even attempt to sell now, especially with the mad rush that was supposedly occurring last time the Gov’t free money credit was poised to expire.

Wait? for what-for prices to go back up, inventory to shrink? Like the recovery is right around the corner?

He maybe a nice person, but bottom line - He gets paid solely by sale commission. If the salesperson thought he could make money selling your friend's house, he would advise them to sell it. Period. Can't help but to think his advice was more self serving than altruistic. Perhaps he was asked if he could get a certain price for it and he knew he couldn't deliver. Didn't want to waste time/money advertising a non-starter.

Liz Pendens says

errc says

kind of shocked me to hear, that a RE agent is advising people to not even attempt to sell now, especially with the mad rush that was supposedly occurring last time the Gov’t free money credit was poised to expire.

Perhaps he was asked if he could get a certain price for it and he knew he couldn’t deliver. Didn’t want to waste time/money advertising a non-starter.

i think that could have something to do with it. but the sellers aren't looking to get anything above 'market' and we're not living on the coasts so it's not like the bubble areas, low unemployment here, and semi-affordable housing is actually realistic

errc .... congratulations on a brave post. I'm sure your Realtor is a fine person. Most people in here think Realtors should work for free and that profit is a dirty word.

"errc …. congratulations on a brave post. I’m sure your Realtor is a fine person. Most people in here think Realtors should work for free and that profit is a dirty word."

No most people think they should go away, and not be in the Real estate equation unless someone like Burritos calls for their services.

There's not one damn reason in Hell, anyone shouldn't be able to see a foreclosed, for sale or abandoned house and do the leg work to find out where the buck stops, and make an offer direct to that party.

Realators are licensed sanctioned thieves. Sure some can be nice all around folks, but lets be real and perfectly clear here. For every Realtor that will pour over the details to report any negative attributes of a house, there are 1,000 realtors listing that house that has termites, a cracked foundation, demolished kitchen, and a roof on its last year, as a "Dream Home".
And tell you it's undervalued.

Tenouncetrout says

For every Realtor that will pour over the details to report any negative attributes of a house, there are 1,000 realtors listing that house that has termites, a cracked foundation, demolished kitchen, and a roof on its last year, as a “Dream Home”.
And tell you it’s undervalued.

Please cite the study that verifies your statistics.

Sounds aheckuva lot like some commercials on radio/TV encouraging people to work with a realtor.

A difference is, those outfits PAID for their advertising.

RayAmerica says

Most people in here think Realtors should work for free and that profit is a dirty word.

As a buyer I can say that most Realtor®s should douse themselves with gasoline and take up smoking.

And not all "profit" is good. Profit should be relative to value-add and bounded by some sort of decency (just because one is the only dentist in town doesn't mean you should charge extortive rates for service).

In a normal slow market, Realtor®s certainly have value-add on the sell-side, but their value proposition on the buy side is what's at issue.

Plus Realtor®s as a class were on the forefront of all the bullshit speculation and income-property stringing this past decade. With the new availability of zero-down stated-income/stated-asset loans, all of them could lever up to infinity, and nearly all of them did.

Real estate agents are largely why we can't have nice things. Whenever I go to Maui I'm struck at how like half the economy is real estate agents angling for business. It's disgusting.

With the rise of the internet, their business model of forced intermediation is as dead as communism. They're one or two sites away (zillow and redfin are the first two shots) from irrelevancy.

RayAmerica says

Most people in here think Realtors should work for free and that profit is a dirty word.

Please cite the study that verifies your statistics.

Liz Pendens says

RayAmerica says

Most people in here think Realtors should work for free and that profit is a dirty word.

Please cite the study that verifies your statistics.

Damn, that was funny!

(elliemae, 2010)

RayAmerica says

Tenouncetrout says

For every Realtor that will pour over the details to report any negative attributes of a house, there are 1,000 realtors listing that house that has termites, a cracked foundation, demolished kitchen, and a roof on its last year, as a “Dream Home”.

And tell you it’s undervalued.

Please cite the study that verifies your statistics.

I've been sent a listing on a property that I actually saw first on Zillow, and went and looked at my self.
At first I liked the house, but a walk around the side of the house, I saw a 4 inch wide gaping crack, at the widest, and about 12 feet long, running from the foundation to the roof.

I've been sent this same property by every Realtor that sends me their list, and some Clown, or more than one actually, in Miami CL lists this same property every day.

I love nothing more than calling them out on it, when they call me. I accuse them of trying to sell me a house in need of being condemed. They defend them selves by saying they haven't personally been to the property and they are just listing what they find on the MLS. The same shit I can see for my Damn self.

If you're going to defend Realtors by pretending they are working in our best interest, then you'll have to first explain the benefit, of them playing onesies or twosies with the same freaking list I have access to!

Tenouncetrout says

At first I liked the house, but a walk around the side of the house, I saw a 4 inch wide gaping crack, at the widest, and about 12 feet long, running from the foundation to the roof.

What you are describing is a patent, not latent defect. Furthermore, if and when you purchase a property, you should always have an inspection contingency in your purchase agreement, with a clause that would allow you to walk away if you are not fully satisfied with the results of the inspection. Agents often times are required to market properties that have known defects. I have invested in a number of these properties over the course of my lifetime, beginning at the ripe old age of 21. I personally would rather find a property with a manageable defect associated with it because it will enable me to negotiate the price down. Another words, these properties actually present opportunities and are viewed as such by smart investors, provided of course you have the extra funds available to correct these defects, often for thousands less that the seller believes.

Liz Pendens says

RayAmerica says
Most people in here think Realtors should work for free and that profit is a dirty word.

Liz Pendens says

Please cite the study that verifies your statistics.

Not quite making the statement that he would like to see Realtors work "for free" but you get the point:

Troy says

As a buyer I can say that most Realtor®s should douse themselves with gasoline and take up smoking.

RayAmerica says

Not quite making the statement that he would like to see Realtors work “for free” but you get the point:

No, Ray Ray, since you have made no point, no one "gets the point." Were you trying to tell us something, or were you simply proving that you know how to use the "quote" option on patnet?

elliemae says

No, Ray Ray, since you have made no point, no one “gets the point.” Were you trying to tell us something, or were you simply proving that you know how to use the “quote” option on patnet?

It's so nice having you follow me around like this. Do you follow others with this much obsession or am I just "special?"

Patrick,

Your website has been a great resource for Bay Areans over the years. I am most grateful that because I directed him to the common sense of this site in 2006, a relative of mine was talked out of venturing into a partnership on scooping up McMansion tract homes in Merced on the speculation that rich college professors would want to rent them. Not only that, after he read Patrick.net in 2006 and starting doing his own research on the subject on his own, independent of his inlaws, he let his inlaws buy out his positions in the other rentals they owned in the Stockton area at cost, at the time they probably figured he was really dumb for giving over to them so much of his "equity".

They're all under water now, foreclosed/short-sold/neg cash flow, etc. including one of them had to sell their home in The Fortress to move into one of those rentals that they couldn't get out of. They are his inlaws and they are civil with him, but they know that I was goading him to "get out" and they are not civil with me. But that's another story.

So I think that in 2006 Patrick.net was a triumph of the internet and blogging and common sense and education. Thank you.

That said, it is 2010 now and it looks an awful lot (and it is "AWFUL") like too many real estate apologists, some probably realtors masquerading as "investors", have hijacked your website and are using it at someone else's expense to distort the overall message that's on the home page. There are plenty of other places to go to get that RealEstate message, does it have to be here?

Well I hope that you are getting some profit from this website because you deserve it, but if you are not maybe it is time to do some censorship or even take it down.

Thank you for your public service,

Sybrib

RayAmerica says

It’s so nice having you follow me around like this. Do you follow others with this much obsession or am I just “special?”

I followed you around by replying to the post before you got here.

Tenouncetrout says

I love nothing more than calling them out on it, when they call me. I accuse them of trying to sell me a house in need of being condemed. They defend them selves by saying they haven’t personally been to the property and they are just listing what they find on the MLS. The same shit I can see for my Damn self.

This is a great example of realtors who regurgitates information without checking it out themselves. I've seen realtors with knowledge hide behind semantics. I had a conversation with a realtor about a subdivision with houses that were built on clay that's now separating. He was bragging that, unless the clay is separating under that exact home's foundation, he doesn't have to tell the prospective buyer.

RayAmerica says

errc …. congratulations on a brave post. I’m sure your Realtor is a fine person. Most people in here think Realtors should work for free and that profit is a dirty word.

i actually think the guy is somewhat of a knucklehead, he was someone i used to party with in those good old days. I am glad, he had enough common sense to listen to some of what i told him back in summer 07 while he was helping me close on my first house. My guess is, he doesn't feel that the sellers can get what they say they want/need, so maybe he doesn't want to put in the effort, but again i don't live in a bubbly coastal area, we had smaller steadier growth, and incomes support house prices in this area. What will the future hold, for jobs, is yet to be seen, because we have much industry and have kept UE quelled to reasonable numbers, rest of the nation/world considering. I have read patrick.net for 4+ years, and i am of the opinion that even when the credits expire, and even when interest rates begin their inevitable rise, that house prices won't fold (much) lower. Am in the "gov't will stop at nothing to keep the charade going" as evidenced by their reactions since post peak.

good luck to those of you still holding out on buying, in hopes of sanity in housing prices, what i have seen with my own eyes, is nothing short of insanity, and am not of the belief that any of these drug like remedies will do anything other then keep the users doped up. will begin shopping for my 2nd house here in the spring, so will root for further downward pressure, but , and it's only my non-university-indoctrinated opinion, we are and will be mulling around the bottom now and for a while, and the biggest change in deed holdership in the future will be prop taxes and cost to borrow

errc says

summer 07 while he was helping me close on my first house.

Just curious - are you upside down? Did your house hold its value?

I'm starting another thread asking this - I'm curious as to the status of patnet readers.

RayAmerica says

Tenouncetrout says

I saw a 4 inch wide gaping crack, at the widest, and about 12 feet long, running from the foundation to the roof.

What you are describing is a patent, not latent defect.

HUH?

RayAmerica says

I personally would rather find a property with a manageable defect associated with it because it will enable me to negotiate the price down. Another words, these properties actually present opportunities and are viewed as such by smart investors, provided of course you have the extra funds available to correct these defects, often for thousands less that the seller believes.

Arrrgh, a crack up the side of a building 4 inches wide and 12 feet high is a PROBLEM. Ray, God bless you if you'd get involved with that at 'ripe old age of 21', but the 'latent' defect is that something is moving. A lot. And you get no return on that kind of expensive fix. Our dinosaur friend was right to call the salesperson on it and walk away.

Saw a house with the chimney separating from the house once - at least 5-6 inches away from the top of the roof. Could see blue sky through it. Someone decided to wrap some metal round it and strap it to the house siding.

Asked the cockroach -oh I mean realtor about it, she said it was stabilized. Told her the exterior wall will be pulled away with it someday rather than keep it in place - she was quite nasty, damn near screamed I wasn't a civil engineer and don't know anything. Responded she actually didn't know what i do and needed to tell folks it was a significant problem... thought her head was going to explode.

She called me about 2 weeks after and asked if I was going to bid on it. Responded the bid would be so low due to needed underpinning, I was not even going to bother. Badgered the hell out of me to 'just make an offer' - so I cut the price in half. (This was 2004 or so). She said it was insulting hung up. The woman deserved to be water-boarded.

These Realtors (TM) want 6% of a sale price for house but in return want ZERO accountability. Hold themselves out as 'experts' but run for the hills when something comes down. Oh, defect with the house... Inspector's fault, I'm blind, and never promised anything. I'll 'pre-approve' you to the seller... hey I didn't hold a gun to your head when you signed the toxic liar loan through my mortgage broker I referred you to. It only goes up and it's different here... well you can't predict the future.

They should be paid the value they bring. Which is running an ad, opening a door and identifying the kitchen.

Liz Pendens says

Arrrgh, a crack up the side of a building 4 inches wide and 12 feet high is a PROBLEM. Ray, God bless you if you’d get involved with that at ‘ripe old age of 21′, but the ‘latent’ defect is that something is moving. A lot. And you get no return on that kind of expensive fix.

\Patent defects are "out in the open" and readily observable. Latent defects are hidden and not readily observable. Note that stated I prefer purchasing properties with MANAGABLE defects. Foundational problems, in almost every case, is something that I will not get involved with and was in no way implying that the property with the 4" gap was something he should buy.

Liz Pendens says

Saw a house with the chimney separating from the house once - at least 5-6 inches away from the top of the roof. Could see blue sky through it. Someone decided to wrap some metal round it and strap it to the house siding.
Asked the cockroach -oh I mean realtor about it, she said it was stabilized.

Why would you even ask a Realtor about a problem such as this one? Realtors have limited knowledge, IF ANY, regarding properties that they are showing you via the MLS. Furthermore, Realtors are not experts when it comes to construction, etc. If they are showing you properties that are listed with another brokerage, there's a good chance they're seeing the property for the first time, so their knowledge about the property won't be a whole lot better than yours. If there are structural, electrical, roof, etc. problems, ask a contractor to give you an estimate as to what the repair would cost. Realtors, in most cases, don't have a clue in these matters.

Liz Pendens says

Arrrgh, a crack up the side of a building 4 inches wide and 12 feet high is a PROBLEM.

What Ray failed to grasp is, that crack representing the whole front of this house about to fall into the front yard. He's not up on structural integrity, just up on how to market them efficiently. Which the Internet is doing a much better job at. Hell I can go out to location and ogle at the particulars my self.

SO RAY! tell us again my esteemed Realtor, Why are you even needed?

RayAmerica says

Liz Pendens says

Saw a house with the chimney separating from the house once - at least 5-6 inches away from the top of the roof. Could see blue sky through it. Someone decided to wrap some metal round it and strap it to the house siding.

Asked the cockroach -oh I mean realtor about it, she said it was stabilized.

Why would you even ask a Realtor about a problem such as this one?

Ray, Ray. I'm not trying to bait you, Dude. And I don't argue for the sake of it.

But isn't it pretty reasonable to expect chick-listing-agent, hawking a $600K property with metal wrapped around the chimney 6 inches away from the roof, to possibly provide a few details? Don't tell me the seller had no knowledge of any details to help forensic engineering for needed repairs.

That's the thing with these leeches - they are 'experts' when you question the amount of their commission, claim they know all the unfathomable 'intricacies' of selling a house that you supposedly shouldn't even try to market on your own. BTW, in NY they learn all this through a 40 hr. class that requires no HS diploma prerequisite.

Then they're suddenly clueless, unaccountable when it comes to actually producing something of value to facilitate a sale. They're focused on FAST, EASY COMMISSION. As big as they can make it. For as little work as possible.

Then they self congratulate themselves with titles like 'Million-dollar producer'. Get handed a framed 'award' embellished with Clip-Art, presented along with a $40 day-spa gift certificate during the weekday luncheon office ceremony at Applebee's.

Vomit.

Self-serving, oily leeches.

RayAmerica says

Liz Pendens says

Saw a house with the chimney separating from the house once - at least 5-6 inches away from the top of the roof. Could see blue sky through it. Someone decided to wrap some metal round it and strap it to the house siding.
Asked the cockroach -oh I mean realtor about it, she said it was stabilized.

Why would you even ask a Realtor about a problem such as this one? Realtors have limited knowledge, IF ANY, regarding properties that they are showing you via the MLS. Furthermore, Realtors are not experts when it comes to construction, etc. If they are showing you properties that are listed with another brokerage, there’s a good chance they’re seeing the property for the first time, so their knowledge about the property won’t be a whole lot better than yours. If there are structural, electrical, roof, etc. problems, ask a contractor to give you an estimate as to what the repair would cost. Realtors, in most cases, don’t have a clue in these matters.

The OP is saying that he/she trusts the Realtor even tho he lives in another state; we're merely pointing out that our experience is that Realtors' jobs are to sell houses. Their salary depends upon someone buying the property, and I don't trust them because that makes it that they're working for themselves.

Liz Pendens' post can be a metaphor for so many things, - just like residential real estate is such a metaphor (my nouns in substitution)

Saw a(n) economy with the (borrowers) separating from the (sanity) once - at least 5-6 (times their income) away from the (reasonable amount) of (what they could afford). Could see blue sky through it. Someone decided to (bundle) some (tranches) round (those loans) and (sell) it to the (investors).
Asked the (Traitor) -oh I mean (The President) about it, (he) said it was (the Ownership Society).

You (lost) me.

Tenouncetrout says

What Ray failed to grasp is, that crack representing the whole front of this house about to fall into the front yard. He’s not up on structural integrity, just up on how to market them efficiently. Which the Internet is doing a much better job at. Hell I can go out to location and ogle at the particulars my self.

LOL. On any given day, as a buyer you can look at 10 properties that are listed and you'll find at least 2 or 3 real properties that will have problems that you won't want to deal with. The question I have is: once you saw the 4" crack, why were you upset? Obviously, this property isn't for you. The standard practice is to be an adult about it, scratch it off your list and move on to another. Another point to consider: if the defect is as bad as you claim, you won't be able to buy this property unless you have either cash, or you've secured a rehab loan that would enable you to finance the repairs (not the easiest loan to obtain in this market).

Ray you must not know me.
Your side stepping Bullshit is ineffective on me.
Your retort would be valid, except this listing is not being represented as a rehab special.
It's being sent to me to be considered for a certain Criteria I have given these Realtors.
So in that context, what they are doing is nothing short of Fraud, I wish there was a Government that gave a good greasy crank for me to report them to. But hell, they are along for this tug job, just as much as you are you Schmuck!

Tenouncetrout says

Schmuck

Actually, he'd be a schmegegge.

Realtors = middle aged women, little education and only job they can get to fuel their Prozac spending.
And we have way too many of them running around downtown Los Gatos. God their obnoxious!