patrick.net

I don't get why we need to honor military personnel over police, fire, teacher or anyone else. People in society contribute in a different way, serving in the military is just one of many. And isn't there Veteran's day already? (I fully understand the live vs. dead issue)

Especially in today’s times where we are at War

No, we are not at War. War is a do-or-die engagement between nation-states or otherwise organized group of individuals.

We haven't been at War since Sep 2, 1945. A limited engagement is a conflict, not a war.

Interesting factoid: The Japanese surrender delegation was not saluted as it was received aboard the Missouri. It was saluted as it disembarked, for we were no longer enemies.

SF ace says

I don’t get why we need to honor military personnel over police, fire, teacher or anyone else. People in society contribute in a different way, serving in the military is just one of many.

Memorial Day is for people who actually DIED in service of the country. Did you know that up to 70% of the combat riflemen and tank crewmen who were KIA in Vietnam 1968-70 had been drafted?

Veteran's Day is day of thanks for the peace brought about by our war veterans' hard work. Warfighters don't get days off in a normal work-week. You work as much as your chain-of-command tells you to, and you have absolutely zero say in the matter.

And you can't quit if you don't like it.

I vote for acommemorative elliemae day. That would be a day where everyone sits around with their critters and enjoys just being.

SF ace says

I don’t get why we need to honor military personnel over police, fire, teacher or anyone else. People in society contribute in a different way, serving in the military is just one of many. And isn’t there Veteran’s day already? (I fully understand the live vs. dead issue)

I guess it because police, fire, teachers, etc generally don't get shot at and killed on the job. While Police do occasionally encounter criminals that shoot at them, a lot of police officers never fired there gun at anyone even with years on the force. Military on the other hand do get shot and shoot back at when doing there job in the time of war, there's not a lot of active duty field soldiers that can claim they were in armed combat and never fired there weapon.

What's Mother's Day?

That's the one that gripes me.

Leigh:

Does it irk you that Social Workers have an entire month, yet nurses have a celebratory week? Either someone believes that social workers are more important - hence the month celebration - or our ego structure is so fragile they've given us 3 additional weeks to make us feel better.

I think that holidays are awesome as long as I get to take a day off, beyond that I'm on the fence. And, no, no time off for SW month.

Why is anyone surprised that people con't know what Memorial Day is? We've been systematically dismantling our public education system. I'm cynical enough to believe that the government wants people to be uneducated because they are easier to control. The unfortunate thing about that is that we individual people can take responsibility for our learning. But we have a culture that disdains individuals who are intelligent and well-educated. There is a great mistrust of people who are intelligent and who are well-educated and the masses love "Joe six-pack." Allegedly "Joe six-pack" is "one of us" while an intelligent and well-educated person is a threat who is an aloof outsider who is viewed as arrogant.

With attitudes about education and intelligence like that, our society is fast becoming an "Idiocracy." "Idiocracy" isn't the best movie. However it has a kernel of truth in its message. I don't think we have to wait 500 years to have a society where people who speak as if they are intelligent and well-educated are laughed at and called, "gay." I see some of that happening now.

Therefore the government has an easy job cutting and slashing education on all levels because people in this society don't really value learning, education, or intelligence. I'm sure many in the Aristocracy in Government are delighted that their job is so easy. It's not hard to convince people that we don't need to spend any more money on education. All you have to do is talk about "taxes" and "wasteful spending" and the masses eat it up and vote for people who inevitably gut education.

Therefore, our country is getting what it deserves in coming generations. We're getting a country where people don't know our history, how to write, how to form thought, how our government works, how to appreciate art and music, how to harness creativity, how to communicate and debate effectively, etc. These people who are receiving our sub-standard education will be ill-equipped to handle the competition that will inevitably come from other countries where intelligance and being well-educated is considered to be an asset.

So, I'm not at all surprised that the general public has no idea about what Memorial Day is. Civics classes are all but extinct.

elliemae says

Leigh:
Does it irk you that Social Workers have an entire month, yet nurses have a celebratory week? Either someone believes that social workers are more important - hence the month celebration - or our ego structure is so fragile they’ve given us 3 additional weeks to make us feel better.
I think that holidays are awesome as long as I get to take a day off, beyond that I’m on the fence. And, no, no time off for SW month.

MSW's are the gods and goddesses of my hospital. But giving them a whole month is, like you said, an ego booster, a weak one at that. Give them a freaking raise so they can at least pay off their student loans in 10 years!

Leigh says

elliemae says

MSW’s are the gods and goddesses of my hospital. But giving them a whole month is, like you said, an ego booster, a weak one at that. Give them a freaking raise so they can at least pay off their student loans in 10 years!

Hear! Hear!

I'm a BSW. couldn't afford the grad school, now I'm an expert on Medicaid eligibility & benefits.
I make more than a few MSW's around here. Sure wish BSW's got more respect, the only benefit to it is that I have a one year grad school turnaround if I wish rather than the 2 years required for other degrees.

Yea - a month is excessive. Especially when I work for a private company that doesn't care and only employs me because it's required. It's that way for most private companies, they value nurses over social workers for social work/case management stuff.

I got the impression that there is very little work for BSW's so many are 'scared' into going for the expensive masters. Good to hear that you found some solid, good work:O)

I remember my first job search 12 years ago. 'BSN or 4 years experience'. Really, is the BSN THAT valuable? Well, on paper, at the time, yes. Not so much any more. That was one of my 1st hard lessons in life...how employers value 'education' over the individual. Yeah, never understood some thought processes of employers.

The only reason I'm valuable is 25 years of experience. It's crazy that another year of education is so important, considering some MSW's graduate and shouldn't breathe, much less practice. I know some LPC's & LCSW's who are horrible, screwed up professionals without compassion, go from job to job.

Same thing with LPN's - I know some who are wonderful nurses who the RN's rely upon in an emergency. They're the ones who train the RN's. Experience should count for something when it comes to licensure.

Considering that no American has died in a war worth fighting in 65 years, it seems to me that the best way to celebrate memorial day would be to stop creating more people to memorialize.

I attended the UC Berkeley graduation ceremony a week ago or so (History). One of the speakers was a former Berkeley graduate, got a law degree from another institution and has served as a lawyer in the military for a number of years. She said there are now more deaths of non-military people than soldiers. More children, mothers, grandfathers and the like are dying than soldiers. Bombs, drones, land mines, etc. apparently can't tell the difference between a soldier and a civilian. It was very a very chilling, gripping, and sobering speach. War is not good for people or other living things.

simchaland says

But we have a culture that disdains individuals who are intelligent and well-educated. There is a great mistrust of people who are intelligent and who are well-educated and the masses love “Joe six-pack.” Allegedly “Joe six-pack” is “one of us” while an intelligent and well-educated person is a threat who is an aloof outsider who is viewed as arrogant.

Yes, and your post shows exactly why: You conflate intelligence and education to the point where your unstated premise may come across as if you believe that if someone is not "educated," they are not intelligent. Perhaps you don't intend to do this, and perhaps you don't believe it, but it comes across as "arrogant."

Likewise, "well-educated" is "well-educated" in what, exactly? Is someone with a BA and a master's or Ph.D. in biological sciences somehow more "well-educated" about economics than someone with just a high school diploma, even if the former never took an economics course? Is it that they are more intelligent because they have those degrees? Maybe people who are "well-educated" come across as arrogant because they believe their education gives them a certain "intelligence" that also expands into topics for which they know nothing about? This is, in my opinion, human nature, and something that someone less educated, but way more intelligent than I, observed thousands of years ago.

Nomograph says

Kevin says

Considering that no American has died in a war worth fighting in 65 years . . .

You don’t consider SUVs to be a cause worth dying for?

funny!

Paralithodes says

Likewise, “well-educated” is “well-educated” in what, exactly? Is someone with a BA and a master’s or Ph.D. in biological sciences somehow more “well-educated” about economics than someone with just a high school diploma, even if the former never took an economics course?

Well, most likely the person with a Ph.D will know more about economics than the high school diploma guy for several reasons, unless the high school diploma guy is a major exception:

1. He makes more money, thus has to learn more about handling it.
2. His social circle (also likely to be highly educated) likely knows more about it.

Of course, there are exceptions (I don't have a high school diploma, but most of my peers have masters or doctorates), but those just prove the rule.

It's also a horrible assumption to assume that "educated" only means "received degree from university". Some of the most educated people in the world got that way through independent study. Today it is incredibly easy to become well educated even if you have neither the time nor the finances to attend a university.

Nomograph says

Paratesticles says

Elliemae, would you consider "Paratesticles" a personal attack? Or does that just apply to when conservatives say something to liberals?

Well, most likely the person with a Ph.D will know more about economics than the high school diploma guy for several reasons...

So you're saying that because someone well-educated in one specialized area, they are therefore a more valid authority to speak about an area in which they have absolutely no education or training, because of their education in the former and who they associate with, than someone with not well-educated in any specialized area? The well-educated person is able to discern, without training or education in the other area, between the inclinations of the person they associate with, and the objective knowledge of the field they have no knowledge of, and therefore draw their own objective conclusions?

This just further highlights the idea that people tend to think that because they are well-educated or experts in one area, they are more likely to have some understanding of other areas completely unrelated to their specialty. And, when they make blanket assumptions about those who are not "well-educated" and conflate "intelligence" in the subject, it appears to be "arrogant." This is all simply human nature. Rather than complain that others may think that it is arrogant, maybe acknowledge that it is in fact a bit arrogant, or at the least, the view of it being arrogance is natural and may have at least a few bits of truth to it.

Kevin says

It’s also a horrible assumption to assume that “educated” only means “received degree from university”. Some of the most educated people in the world got that way through independent study. Today it is incredibly easy to become well educated even if you have neither the time nor the finances to attend a university.

So you agree that this might actually include some "Joe Six-packs?"

Nomograph says

The most important aspect of education is learning to think independently. Many uneducated people never learn this skill, or how to spot and disregard political, rhetorical, and logical fallacy.

I understand.. So we can therefore assume that when you engage in rhetoric and logical fallacy, you are doing so with full understanding and intentions. For example, you attribute to me in this thread some imagined idea that I have taken something personal, and I am certainly not the first or only person in this forum to whom you have done the exact same thing (it is therefore obviously either a specific debate "tactic" that you use, or a personal shortcoming/projection). Where does this fit into the list of logical fallacies? WWSS (What would Socrates Say)? Thanks for the important clarifications, though they are not much of a surprise.

Nomograph says

Some of the posters on this board fall into this category, and they trip over themselves as the AM talk radio show hosts lead them around by the nose.

Of course, this only applies to right-wing AM talk show hosts, and not left-wing pundits, whether on radio, TV, etc., because clearly the folks who get their "information" from those sources, can think independently about it and draw out the objective truth, even if they have not done their research into the source information themselves....

Paralithodes says

Elliemae, would you consider “Paratesticles” a personal attack? Or does that just apply to when conservatives say something to liberals?

No, I'd consider it to be funny. If he had called you "lackatesticles" it would have been another story. But it's not like he follows you around from thread to thread, attacking you personally.

I'm surprised that you asked me.

I went to a party the other night and there was a man who was angry about the government conspiracies - and he was in rare form. He'd had too much to drink and was waving his hands around, blustering his opinions while his obviously embarrassed wife stood nearby looking as though she wanted to melt into the woodwork.

I walked up to him and called him rayray. Some random person there almost busted a gut laughing - and asked me if by chance my name was elliemae.
I love inside jokes. They make my heart happy.

Paralithodes says

So you agree that this might actually include some “Joe Six-packs?”

Perhaps, but not likely "Joe Six-pack" usually refers to the typical working to middle class person who has a hard time going beyond their immediate needs, and thus won't be bothered with such academic persuits.

Most people who are well educated (regardless of where that education came from) are able to advance significantly in life, either by starting a business or working in an industry where the lack of degree isn't a major liability.

There are plenty of people who are uneducated who think they know a lot and talk as if they do, but more often than not their either parroting what they heard from someone else, or they have ideas that are simply bad.

I am not surprised that people have no clue what Memorial Day means. Our country is generally apathetic these days to anything that doesn’t directly impact their lives. Unless it interrupts their daily lives, they could care less about what happens. This will not change while we have an all volunteer military force that gets the job done. Less than one percent of the U.S. population sacrifices everything for the majority of this nation and they don’t ask for anything in return.

Globalization and modernization are occurring in 3rd world countries. These countries are hungry for their place as a world power. What would you be willing to fight for? So, there are people out there who have no clue what Memorial Day is or represents. Those individuals are mere sheep who go about their days without any interruptions while the wolves circle the flock. We are still lucky to have volunteers who selflessly protect the flock. Agree with me or not, as long as man is man; it takes military might to impose one political will upon another.

There are large groups of people and nations out there that want to destroy everything we stand for and there is nothing we can ever do to change their minds.

Sent from Afghanistan.

boscowashere, please be careful and return home in one piece. We don't need to add more to the list of those "Memorialized" on this day (It's still Memorial day in California).

I pray that you and all soldiers who are serving in places where you are in constant danger receive protection and that you have a safe return home. Also, I pray that you find solace in knowing that there are those of us, no matter of what political ideology, who respect the sacrifice you and your comrades are making in our name. Even if we don't believe that the conflict is just or needed, you and your comrades have given up the freedom to choose whether or not you must participate based on your own personal beliefs or political ideology. I respect that you and your comrades are there because you believe in the sacrifice you are making for the good of those of us who keep things going back home in safety and peace. For that I thank you and wish you a safe tour of duty and a safe return as soon as possible.

Blessed be your fallen comrades and may they rest in peace. We shall not forget them on this day especially, or any other day for that matter.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jvolstad/sets/72157624175895678/

San Bruno, CA Memorial Day 2010

boscowashere says

There are large groups of people and nations out there that want to destroy everything we stand for and there is nothing we can ever do to change their minds.

You're right, which is why we should stop spending a trillion dollars a year trying to do that.

The biggest threat to America's prosperity doesn't come from third world countries with pocket despots that want to suicide bomb times square -- it comes from the rapid education and industrialization of our large Asian trading partners.

If we spent a trillion dollars a year on infrastructure and education instead of bombs and bullets, we'd be in a better position to handle the real problems that we face instead of attempting to fill the void left by the fall of communism and chasing after boogeymen.