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Can't refinance under water

By someone else following x   2007 May 3, 4:35am 21,320 views   283 comments   watch   nsfw   quote     share    


underwater houses

During the boom, if borrowers asked about the adjustable rates on their mortgages, they were told "oh, you can just refinance and start over".

But no one told them you can't refinance if your house is under water, that is, if the loan amount is more than the value of the house. Banks won't go for that, even in the continuing lax lending environment.

So their rates will adjust upward, and they won't be able to pay the mortgage, or refinance, or sell for what they paid.

Interesting times ahead.

Patrick

#housing

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241   Randy H   ignore (0)   2007 May 5, 4:06pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tailing too close leads to far more deaths a year then DUI’s.

I'd like to see the evidence supporting this claim.

Regardless, the problem is Prius owners, and not just them but also any other self-appointed "slow down to my speed" zealots, do far more damage than good. Yes people drive over the limit. That is just the way it is. When you get in the wrong lane and drive like a moron you put everyone else at risk. How?

Have you ever been tootling down the 280 in the 3rd lane when suddenly the guy in front of you -- at a very safe distance -- going 75 jumps to the 4th lane, only to reveal some jagoff in a Prius going 50? Then you jump left. Then the guy behind you jumps left. And so on. If you're lucky, no one gets killed.

In most countries of the world where high-speed highways exist, there is a self-policed order to things. Slow people get right. Faster people get left. You don't pass on the right. You don't doddle on the left.

But you keep telling yourself you're holier than thou, azrob. I hope you have rear airbags for the time that 5 series ends up in your hatchback.

242   Jimbo   ignore (0)   2007 May 5, 4:27pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

People going fifty in the left lane are idiots. People going the speed limit in the #2 lane (the one to the right of the "fast" lane) are not. All, imho, of course and as someone who does not even own a car.

If you are going under the speed limit, you belong in the slow lane. That is what it is there for.

243   Peter P   ignore (0)   2007 May 5, 4:37pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tailing too close leads to far more deaths a year then DUI’s.

Huh? Well, I usually leave 4 seconds of space. I prefer staying below speed limit but if the flow is faster I will have to speed up. It is not safe to have large variance of speed.

However, I do not think it is safe to go more than 10mph above.

244   astrid   ignore (0)   2007 May 5, 9:04pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

justme,

What's your objective? If you're care about gas mileage, look into diesel. If want environmental friendliness, consider a bicycle or a moped. If you want to pick up women who only care about cars, look into high end car rentals for the nights when you cruise.

245   astrid   ignore (0)   2007 May 5, 9:09pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

justme,

What's your objective? If you're care about gas mileage, look into diesel. If you want environmental friendliness, consider a bicycle or a moped. If you want to pick up women who only care about cars, look into high end car rentals for the nights when you cruise.

246   astrid   ignore (0)   2007 May 5, 9:24pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

People who drive too slow should stay home.
People who drive too fast or tailgates too regularly should have their license revoked.
People over the age of 70 or those with a diagnosed condition that could impair their driving are not allowed to drive under the penalty of lifetime medium security nursing home facility.
Handicapped people can get a van service and no driving privileges.
Build more railroad capacity and kill the long distance trucking industry.
End all ethanol subsidies.
Severely tax all vehicles (on a sliding scale) with MPG lower than 30.

Oh, how about high quality, high density housing close to work and interspersed with well policed public park spaces (strict dog poop bagging rules in place).

All things I will do once I'm proclaimed the queen of the universe.

(this little thought experiment makes Japan look really good)

247   astrid   ignore (0)   2007 May 5, 10:29pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Peter P,

You might enjoy this NYT article on fake Chinese medical supplies. People in Mainland China has known for years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/world/americas/06poison.html?_r=1&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=all

Anyhow, for those of you who say there's too much nanny state and you rather vote Bush than ... Keep in mind that the Bush administration has no problems with cutting FDA inspection budget dispite this potentially huge public health issue.

248   Allah   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 1:30am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Don't be surprised if the median goes up instead of down due to more sales of discounted luxury housing like it has here on Long Island.

249   Allah   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 1:32am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Above post in reference to Malcolm's post

I’ll be interested to see what the upcoming auctions do to the median home prices in LA Riverside and San Diego. People who are saying prices haven’t plummeted don’t realize that the house has to actually sell to be included in the numbers. These auctions force the issue, and this is all part of a very clear scenario.

250   Michael Holliday   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 2:01am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Massive Layoffs at IBM? Wouldn't surprise me!

Read on:

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2007/pulpit_20070504_002027.html

251   Brand165   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 2:05am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Randy H says: In most countries of the world where high-speed highways exist, there is a self-policed order to things. Slow people get right. Faster people get left. You don’t pass on the right. You don’t doddle on the left.

I was under the impression that you could get a hefty ticket on the autobahn for any of the above offenses.

252   dp337   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 3:22am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Decided to peruse the neighborhood (Willow Glen) for open houses with the missus yesterday. We looked at about 5 houses in a .5 mile radius of each other.

1. All houses were priced between 1 - 1.9 Million
2. Houses were in neighborhoods don't merit million dollars price tags.
3. 3 of the 5 houses were new. Yep, new. They tore down the old house and built a new one. Which stands out in a street with much older houses.
4. We were told by the realtors that the market is much better than last year and is moving upwards.
5. I also checked the log book and nothing more than three entries. We looked late in the afternoon.

My wife and I make a decent living. We can afford the lower end of the price tag but we're not smoking crack either. I was especially amused by the one house that was 1 mil and there were no upgrades since early 1970's. It still had the funkadelic glass walls.

Whatever happened the last 6 years with the housing prices is just sad. I don't see it going down drastically in the short term. I think it will go down slowly for the next 10 years in the BA. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll be sticking around the BA to wait.

253   Peter P   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 5:17am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Why does Paris do 45 days for a bad license when millians of illegal mexicans are driving around LA everyday with no license.

Why are some employers sued for firing gays when most employers can fire people with no reason at all?

Disclaimer: I have no problems with homosexuals. This is merely an illustration.

254   Peter P   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 5:21am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Keep in mind that the Bush administration has no problems with cutting FDA inspection budget dispite this potentially huge public health issue.

The problem is that more inspection will not necessarily eliminate the problem. Look, the whole DEA could not win the war on drugs.

The solution is common sense public awareness. Education is the key.

255   Peter P   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 5:24am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I am against jailing people for minor offenses. It costs too much.

256   Peter P   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 5:41am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Severely tax all vehicles (on a sliding scale) with MPG lower than 30.

I am against any form of progressive taxation because government should not make value judgement on consumption and/or production.

257   astrid   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 6:21am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Peter P,

I'm pretty sure the PEREZ jailing is just an excuse to produce a direct-to-internet women in prison film.

258   astrid   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 6:24am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I find it mindboggling that you think we can be educated to avoid tasteless, odorless poison disguised as cough syrup.

259   Brand165   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 7:04am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The real culprit here is our limp enforcement of trade laws. The U.S. should be in an uproar over the Chinese medical counterfeits. Instead, we will just issue a verbal warning and go on our merry way. Because the benefits of cheap goods like pet food, medical goods and T-shirts far outweighs the drawbacks of a couple dogs and people getting sick.

Look at how hard Japan snapped us back when they found parts of spine in U.S. beef exports. To my knowledge, we've only had one case of Mad Cow here in the last decade. But the Japanese aren't screwing around. They said no risk of Mad Cow, and they meant no risk of Mad Cow. Period. They inspect their imports and they enforce their trade laws.

260   SP   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 7:36am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I met my CPA for some tax planning advice - he also does taxes for a number of realtwhores. I asked him how they're doing - he just chuckled and said "oh they're hurtin'" and told me some of them went from making 300K in 2005 to 60K in 2006.

SP

261   Peter P   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 7:50am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I find it mindboggling that you think we can be educated to avoid tasteless, odorless poison disguised as cough syrup.

You mean the housing bubble cool-aid? :)

262   Brand165   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 8:26am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I actually read the IBM "article" from a link someone posted earlier. 150,000 people is more than IBM's entire U.S. workforce (not including contractors, I assume). Thus I tend to think the layoff was a ridiculously overblown rumor.

IBM did lay off 1300 people recently, and will probably do more in the near future. But unless they can create negative employees in the U.S., I fail to see how they could hit 150,000 here.

263   cb   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 9:12am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Had dinner with family last night, sister in-law said her friend bought 4 houses in Sacto and is now letting it foreclosed. Her friend's household income is less than 100K. Wife's co-worker also bought 2 houses in Sacto and is now underwater and is very stressed visibly. Funny how she told my wife that we should also get in the game (flipping) and that we are too conservative. Usually I don't care what people do, but more often than not flippers always have to shoot their mouths off, now these people have to eat crow :)

264   Randy H   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 9:33am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I met my CPA for some tax planning advice - he also does taxes for a number of realtwhores. I asked him how they’re doing - he just chuckled and said “oh they’re hurtin’” and told me some of them went from making 300K in 2005 to 60K in 2006.

My CPA is a prominent tax guy in Mill Valley who does work for an impressive list of folks, mostly in SF and Marin (I lucked into his practice because of my affiliation with a LLC he handled years back.)

He confirms what SP said. To paraphrase: a lot of [my clients] in real estate had a disaster of a year last year. And more telling, he said a lot of them have been asking him how to lower their estimated tax payments in 07 (which are normally based on the previous year's earnings). Anyone who's had to make dreaded estimated tax payments knows what that means.

But BB is doing great I hear ;)

265   azrob   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 9:35am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I have consulted in China. It is MUCH harder to get good qualified employees, the kind IBM would want there then you might think.

1. A chinese graduate degree is not the samething by a long shot yet. That is the reason the best and brightest asian students sill go abroad for their graduate work.

2. Most successfull chinese do not want to work for a foreign company too long; They feel they will never be management material in an American or European companies plans, so even if initial pay is lower in a chinese company, over a lifetime it might be the better choice.

3. Intellectual property and trade secrets are not going to be protected in China for the foreseable future. Thus, you see old simple tech things being assembled in China, but you don't see cutting edge R&D; Why invest millions in R&D just to have to compete with a startup in shinzen making the same thing?

this plan sounds like a silly rumour.

Randy the speeder mad at Prius drivers...

Leave early and don't worry about speeding. Your comment to hybrid drivers that their going to get rear ended for going the speedlimit in the fastlane: Go ahead, assuming you have a job I could use 25% of your income for the rest of my life, I am sure my attorney will get a bunch of laughs when you explain in court that its ok for you to speed and follow too closely, the accident is actually the fault of someone driving a hybrid at the speedlimit! good luck with that one! Your not a master debater, but it sounds close!

266   Peter P   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 9:50am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I am sure my attorney will get a bunch of laughs when you explain in court that its ok for you to speed and follow too closely, the accident is actually the fault of someone driving a hybrid at the speedlimit!

The rear-enders are almost ALWAYS at fault. However, the court cannot reverse your back pain.

267   Randy H   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 10:52am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

azrob

Randy the speeder mad at Prius drivers…

Leave early and don’t worry about speeding. Your comment to hybrid drivers that their going to get rear ended for going the speedlimit in the fastlane: Go ahead, assuming you have a job I could use 25% of your income for the rest of my life, I am sure my attorney will get a bunch of laughs when you explain in court that its ok for you to speed and follow too closely, the accident is actually the fault of someone driving a hybrid at the speedlimit! good luck with that one! Your not a master debater, but it sounds close!

a) Often Prius drivers will fall below the speed limit while climbing hills. Technically, that is also illegal. Yes, you can get a ticket for driving too far below the limit, as well you can for unsafe operation impeding traffic.

b) I have liability insurance, as does probably everyone else on this blog. You won't get a penny of my income.

c) If you had bothered to actually read my response you'd have understood my description of a common situation here in the BA where rear-end collisions are a real threat even if everyone is driving at a safe distance. In fact, I never tail gate (and often will get cut off as a result).

And since you've managed to piss me off: my partially disabled mother is partially disabled because she was rear-ended while driving her thunderbird back in Ohio. She will admit she was driving in middle lane (of 3) going very slowly when she got rear ended by a large pickup truck that was driving the limit (as per the report). By the way, *she* was sued by that driver (and her insurance settled, thus no she didn't lose any salary or pension).

But go on breathing your own smugness if it makes you feel better. It'd be a lot easier on everyone if you just drove sensibly instead of persecuting your own self righteous crusade.

268   Malcolm   ignore (1)   2007 May 6, 11:26am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

As a Prius owner I just want to correct one thing. They are not underpowered and climb hills just fine. Coming home from downtown today we saw a Prius with a small red heart on the side of it. I don't know any other car that is currently getting the adoration of its owners like this. It is actually a pleasure to cut the check each month on this car.

269   lunarpark   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 11:56am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I just returned from my vacation to find out that the condo in our building sold after just two weeks on the market (Cupertino). On the other hand, my friend who is trying to sell her townhouse in MV has had no luck. She said a lot of people are looking, but she hasn't received any offers, not even a lowball. Her realtor told her that people are just not buying right now and that they will probably need to lower the price.

270   Michael Holliday   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 12:42pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

DP Says:

My wife and I make a decent living. We can afford the lower end of the price tag but we’re not smoking crack either. I was especially amused by the one house that was 1 mil and there were no upgrades since early 1970’s. It still had the funkadelic glass walls.
_____

Ha, ha!

That's pretty funny.

I was looking at a house in Phoenix, in a nice area called Moon Valley, a few years ago.

I went into this one house, and the whole damn thing was a perfectly preserved, early '70s masterpiece.

I looks like the kids left home for college in the '70s and the parents just left their rooms untouched, in museum show quality, Tigerbeat posters and all.

It would've taken 50K just to redo the interior and bring it up 21st century interior decorating standards. Better yet, it wouldn't made a good That '70s Show studio setup.

Definitely funka-psychedelic!

271   Randy H   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 1:14pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Malcolm

They are not underpowered and climb hills just fine.

That is the point. I have nothing against Priuses. I have something against the drivers who stare at their little computer and slow down to 40 going up the hill to maximize efficiency. I have driven a Prius, and they have plenty of power.

@azrob

What can I say? It's easy for some anonymous blogger to accuse me of bullshitting. She was rear ended, and she was sued successfully. Liability does not always equal true fault in the real world, in which the rest of us live. But no, she wasn't cited, so you can insist it wasn't her fault all you want.

It is true that most insurance judgments go in favor of the person rear-ended. But it is not true that they are never at fault. Maybe Prius owners are never at fault. I'll trust your expertise.

272   Malcolm   ignore (1)   2007 May 6, 1:30pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I'm sorry for your mom, it sounds like a raw deal.

273   Randy H   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 1:40pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

It was almost 15 years ago and I'm still sore about it. And if I could do anything to help spare others the same fate, I will. This is why I am overly sensitive to road-crusaders. Just drive. It's a form of locomotion. Not a political forum.

274   Malcolm   ignore (1)   2007 May 6, 1:41pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I'm actually 95% with you on this one Randy.

275   Peter P   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 3:26pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

But it is not true that they are never at fault.

It is extremely rare. Do you have a quotable court case?

276   Peter P   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 3:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I was rear-ended once. I had to stop for a highway obstacle. That guy hit me at 50mph+.

The report said that his "reasonable or prudent" speed should have been 0mph, since I was stationary.

277   Randy H   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 3:46pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Peter P

I clearly stated that I was not talking about legal judgments. People win judgments in which restaurants are liable because customers spill hot coffee on their own laps, yet I've heard you cite them with being at fault.

278   Peter P   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 4:50pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I clearly stated that I was not talking about legal judgments.

Sorry. I misunderestimated you.

279   LowlySmartRenter   ignore (1)   2007 May 6, 5:19pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I was rear-ended recently on 101 in a crash-a-trois: Car 1 hit Car 2, pushing Car 2 into Car 3 (me). Very slow speed though, as we too were slowing for an ostacle ahead (an accident). Turns out, the guy in Car 1 turned his head for a split second because as people were merging (to avoid the accident), someone honked.

It occured to me that few Bay Aryans honk, at least compared to some of the East Coast cities, where people use the horn as much as they use the brake and accelerator. So when someone does honk around here, it's kinda startling.

We're just not honkers out here.

I'm sorry about your mom Randy. It's the kind of tragedy that just continues, and my heart goes out to you. It's good to tell the story to others. It reminds us to be alert at all times and watch our speed, no matter how late we are running to that next important meeting/party/errand.

280   Vicente   ignore (0)   2007 May 6, 6:33pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

"You can't take out someone with a motorcycle..."

Are motorcycles these days getting down to zero weight with fluffy pillows on the sides? I rather imagine hitting one laying in the road in front of me is going to be as deadly as hitting a washing machine that fell off a MJT.

So someone going under your wheels, or being crunched between you and the 18-wheeler next to you, or a motorcycle cartwheeling through the air, none of those things are likely to cause people to panic and swerve or slam on their brakes? No pileups ever occur because of a motorcycle? This must be a very interesting planet, where only the driver of a motorcycle is ever endangered by their whacky impatient antics.

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