« prev   random   next »

14
4

Islam

By resistance following x   2007 Sep 11, 1:35am 253,454 views   1,109 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


Originally from http://www.faithfreedom.org/

A Call to the Muslims of the World from a Group of Freethinkers and Humanists of Muslim Origins

Dear friends,

The tragic incidents of September 11 have shocked the world. It is unthinkable that anyone could be so full of hate as to commit such heinous acts and kill so many innocent people. We people of Muslim origin are as much shaken as the rest of the world and yet we find ourselves looked upon with suspicion and distrust by our neighbours and fellow citizens. We want to cry out and tell the world that we are not terrorists, and that those who perpetrate such despicable acts are murderers and not part of us. But, in reality, because of our Muslim origins we just cannot erase the stigma of Islamic Terrorism from our identity!

What most Muslims will say:

Islam would never support the killing of innocent people. Allah of the Holy Qur'an never advocated killings. This is all the work of a few misguided individuals at the fringes of society. The real Islam is sanctified from violence. We denounce all violence. Islam means peace. Islam means tolerance.

What knowledgeable Muslims should say:

That is what most Muslims think, but is it true? Does Islam really preach peace, tolerance and non-violence? The Muslims who perpetrate these crimes think differently. They believe that what they do is Jihad (holy war). They say that killing unbelievers is mandatory for every Muslim. They do not kill because they wish to break the laws of Islam but because they think this is what true Muslims should do. Those who blow-up their own bodies to kill more innocent people do so because they think they will be rewarded in Paradise. They hope to be blessed by Allah, eat celestial food, drink pure wine and enjoy the company of divine consorts. Are they completely misguided? Where did they get this distorted idea? How did they come to believe that killing innocent people pleases God? Or is it that we are misguided? Does really Islam preach violence? Does it call upon its believers to kill non-believers? We denounce those who commit acts of violence and call them extremists. But are they really extremists or are they following what the holy book, the Qur'an tells them to do? What does the Qur'an teach? Have we read the Qur'an? Do we know what kind of teachings are there? Let us go through some of them and take a closer look at what Allah says.

What the Qur'an Teaches Us:

We have used the most widely available English text of the Qur'an and readers are welcome to verify our quotes from the holy book. Please have an open mind and read through these verses again and again. The following quotes are taken from the most trusted Yusufali's translation of the Qur'an. The Qur'an tells us: not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (5:51), kill the disbelievers wherever we find them (2:191), murder them and treat them harshly (9:123), fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (9:5). The Qur'an demands that we fight the unbelievers, and promises If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them (8:65). Allah and his messenger want us to fight the Christians and the Jews until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued (9:29). Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (9:3). Our God tells us to fight the unbelievers and He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them (9:14).

The Qur'an takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and relegates those who disbelieve in Islam to hell (5:10), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), and orders its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193). It says that the non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling water (14:17). It asks the Muslims to slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter (5:34). And tells us that for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods (22:19-22) and that they not only will have disgrace in this life, but on the Day of Judgment He shall make them taste the Penalty of burning (Fire) (22:9). The Qur'an says that those who invoke a god other than Allah not only should meet punishment in this world but the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to them, and they will dwell therein in ignominy (25:68). For those who believe not in Allah and His Messenger, He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire! (48:13). Although we are asked to be compassionate amongst each other, we have to be harsh with unbelievers, our Christian, Jewish and Atheist neighbours and colleagues (48:29). As for him who does not believe in Islam, the Prophet announces with a stern command: Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin. (69:30-37) The Qur'an prohibits a Muslim from befriending a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (9:23), (3:28). Our holy book asks us to be disobedient towards the disbelievers and their governments and strive against the unbelievers with great endeavour (25:52) and be stern with them because they belong to Hell (66:9). The holy Prophet prescribes fighting for us and tells us that it is good for us even if we dislike it (2:216). Then he advises us to strike off the heads of the disbelievers; and after making a wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives (47:4). Our God has promised to instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers and has ordered us to smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them (8:12). He also assures us that when we kill in his name it is not us who slay them but Allah, in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself (8:17). He orders us to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies (8:60). He has made the Jihad mandatory and warns us that Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place (9:39). Allah speaks to our Holy Prophet and says O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed (9:73).

He promises us that in the fight for His cause whether we slay or are slain we return to the garden of Paradise (9:111). In Paradise he will wed us with Houris (celestial virgins) pure beautiful ones (56:54), and unite us with large-eyed beautiful ones while we recline on our thrones set in lines (56:20). There we are promised to eat and drink pleasantly for what we did (56:19). He also promises boys like hidden pearls (56:24) and youth never altering in age like scattered pearls (for those who have paedophiliac inclinations) (76:19). As you see, Allah has promised all sorts or rewards, gluttony and unlimited sex to Muslim men who kill unbelievers in his name. We will be admitted to Paradise where we shall find goodly things, beautiful ones, pure ones confined to the pavilions that man has not touched them before nor jinni (56:67-71).In the West we enjoy freedom of belief but we are not supposed to give such freedom to anyone else because it is written If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good) (3:85). And He orders us to fight them on until there is no more tumult and faith in Allah is practiced everywhere (8:39). As for women the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient (4:34). It advises to take a green branch and beat your wife, because a green branch is more flexible and hurts more. (38:44). It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (66:10). It maintains that men have an advantage over the women (2:228). It not only denies the women's equal right to their inheritance (4:11-12), it also regards them as imbeciles and decrees that their witness is not admissible in the courts of law (2:282). This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Our Holy Prophet allows us to marry up to four wives and he licensed us to sleep with our slave maids and as many 'captive' women as we may have (4:3) even if those women are already married. He himself did just that. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they call them kafir and allow themselves to rape their women. Pakistani soldiers allegedly raped up to 250,000 Bengali women in 1971 after they massacred 3,000,000 unarmed civilians when their religious leader decreed that Bangladeshis are un-Islamic. This is why the prison guards in Islamic regime of Iran rape the women that in their opinion are apostates prior to killing them, as they believe a virgin will not go to Hell.

Dear fellow Muslims:Is this the Islam you believe in? Is this your Most Merciful, Most Compassionate Allah whom you worship daily? Could Allah incite you to kill other peoples? Please understand that there is no terrorist gene - but there could be a terrorist mindset. That mindset finds its most fertile ground in the tenets of Islam. Denying it, and presenting Islam to the lay public as a religion of peace similar to Buddhism, is to suppress the truth. The history of Islam between the 7th and 14th centuries is riddled with violence, fratricide and wars of aggression, starting right from the death of the Prophet and during the so-called 'pure' or orthodox caliphate. And Muhammad himself hoisted the standard of killing, looting, massacres and bloodshed. How can we deny the entire history? The behaviour of our Holy Prophet as recorded in authentic Islamic sources is quite questionable from a modern viewpoint. The Prophet was a charismatic man but he had few virtues. Imitating him in all aspects of life (following the Sunnah) is both impossible and dangerous in the 21st century. Why are we so helplessly in denial over this simple issue? When the Prophet was in Mecca and he was still not powerful enough he called for tolerance. He said To you be your religion, and to me my religion (109:6). This famous quote is often misused to prove that the general principle of Qur'an is tolerance. He advised his follower to speak good to their enemies (2: 83), exhorted them to be patient (20:103) and said that there is no compulsion in religion (2:256). But that all changed drastically when he came to power. Then killing and slaying unbelievers with harshness and without mercy was justified in innumerable verses. The verses quoted to prove Islam's tolerance ignore many other verses that bear no trace of tolerance or forgiveness. Where is tolerance in this well-known verse Alarzu Lillah, Walhukmu Lillah. (The Earth belongs to Allah and thus only Allah's rule should prevail all over the earth.).Is it normal that a book revealed by God should have so many serious contradictions? The Prophet himself set the example of unleashing violence by invading the Jewish settlements, breaking treaties he had signed with them and banishing some of them after confiscating their belongings, massacring others and taking their wives and children as slaves. He inspected the youngsters and massacred all those who had pubic hair along with the men. Those who were younger he kept as slaves. He distributed the women captured in his raids among his soldiers keeping the prettiest for himself (33:50). He made sexual advances on Safiyah, a Jewish girl on the same day he captured her town Kheibar and killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives. Reyhana was another Jewish girl of Bani Quriza whom he used as a sex slave after killing all her male relatives. In the last ten years of his life he accumulated two scores of wives, concubines and sex slaves including the 9 year old Ayesha. These are not stories but records from authentic Islamic history and the Hadiths. It can be argued that this kind of behaviour was not unknown or unusual for the conquerors and leaders of the mediaeval world but these are not the activities befitting of a peaceful saint and certainly not someone who claimed to be the Mercy of God for all creation. There were known assassinations of adversaries during the Prophet's time, which he had knowledge of and had supported. Among them there was a 120 year old man, Abu 'Afak whose only crime was to compose a lyric satirical of the Prophet. (by Ibn Sa'd Kitab al Tabaqat al Kabir, Volume 2, page 32) Then when a poetess, a mother of 5 small children 'Asma' Bint Marwan wrote a poetry cursing the Arabs for letting Muhammad assassinate an old man, our Holy Prophet ordered her to be assassinated too in the middle of the night while her youngest child was suckling from her breast. (Sirat Rasul Allah (A. Guillaume's translation The Life of Muhammad) page 675, 676).The Prophet did develop a 'Robin Hood' image that justified raiding merchant caravans attacking cities and towns, killing people and looting their belongings in the name of social justice. Usama Bin Laden is also trying to create the same image. But Robin Hood didn't claim to be a prophet or a pacifist nor did he care for apologist arguments. He did not massacre innocent people indiscriminately nor did he profit by reducing free people to slaves and then trading them. With the known and documented violent legacy of Islam, how can we suddenly rediscover it as a religion of peace in the free world in the 21st century? Isn't this the perpetuation of a lie by a few ambitious leaders in order to gain political control of the huge and ignorant Muslim population? They are creating a polished version of Islam by completely ignoring history. They are propagating the same old dogma for simple believing people in a crisp new modern package. Their aim: to gain political power in today's high-tension world. They want to use the confrontational power of the original Islam to catalyse new conflicts and control new circles of power.

Dear conscientious Muslims, please question yourselves. Isn't this compulsive following of a man who lived 1400 years ago leading us to doom in a changing world? Do the followers of any other religion follow one man in such an all-encompassing way? Who are we deceiving, them or ourselves? Dear brothers and sisters, see how our Umma (people) has sunk into poverty and how it lags behind the rest of the world. Isn't it because we are following a religion that is outdated and impractical? In this crucial moment of history, when a great catastrophe has befallen us and a much bigger one is lying ahead, should not we wake up from our 1400 years of slumber and see where things have gone wrong? Hatred has filled the air and the world is bracing itself for its doomsday. Should we not ask ourselves whether we have contributed, wittingly or unwittingly, to this tragedy and whether we can stop the great disaster from happening?Unfortunately the answer to the first question is yes. Yes we have contributed to the rise of fundamentalism by merely claiming Islam is a religion of peace, by simply being a Muslim and by saying our shahada (testimony that Allah is the only God and Muhammad is his messenger). By our shahada we have recognized Muhammad as a true messenger of God and his book as the words of God. But as you saw above those words are anything but from God. They call for killing, they are prescriptions for hate and they foment intolerance. And when the ignorant among us read those hate-laden verses, they act on them and the result is the infamous September 11, human bombs in Israel, massacres in East Timor and Bangladesh, kidnappings and killings in the Philippines, slavery in the Sudan, honour killings in Pakistan and Jordan, torture in Iran, stoning and maiming in Afghanistan and Iran, violence in Algeria, terrorism in Palestine and misery and death in every Islamic country. We are responsible because we endorse Islam and hail it as a religion of God. And we are as guilty as those who put into practice what the Qur'an preaches - and ironically we are the main victims too. If we are not terrorists, if we love peace, if we cried with the rest of the word for what happened in New York, then why are we supporting the Qur'an that preaches killing, that advocates holy war, that calls for the murder of non-Muslims? It is not the extremists who have misunderstood Islam. They do literally what the Qur'an asks them to do. It is we who misunderstand Islam. We are the ones who are confused. We are the ones who wrongly assume that Islam is the religion of peace. Islam is not a religion of peace. In its so-called pure form it can very well be interpreted as a doctrine of hate. Terrorists are doing just that and we the intellectual apologists of Islam are justifying it. We can stop this madness. Yes, we can avert the disaster that is hovering over our heads. Yes, we can denounce the doctrines that promote hate. Yes, we can embrace the rest of humanity with love. Yes, we can become part of a united world, members of one human family, flowers of one garden. We can dump the claim of infallibility of our Book, and the questionable legacy of our Prophet.Dear friends, there is no time to waste. Let us put an end to this lie. Let us not fool ourselves. Islam is not a religion of peace, of tolerance, of equality or of unity of humankind. Let us read the Qur'an. Let us face the truth even if it is painful. As long as we keep this lie alive, as long as we hide our head in the sands of Arabia we are feeding terrorism. As long as you and I keep calling Qur'an the unchangeable book of God, we cannot blame those who follow the teachings therein. As long as we pay our Khums and Zakat our money goes to promote Islamic expansionism and that means terrorism, Jihad and war. Islam divides the world in two. Darul Harb (land of war) and Darul Islam (land of Islam). Darul Harb is the land of the infidels, Muslims are required to infiltrate those lands, proselytise and procreate until their numbers increase and then start the war and fight and kill the people and impose the religion of Islam on them and convert that land into Darul Islam. In all fairness we denounce this betrayal. This is abuse of the trust. How can we make war in the countries that have sheltered us? How can we kill those who have befriended us? Yet willingly or unwillingly we have become pawns in this Islamic Imperialism. Let us see what great Islamic scholars have had to say in this respect.Dr. M. Khan the translator of Sahih Bukhari and the Qur'an into English wrote: Allah revealed in Sura Bara'at (Repentance, IX) the order to discard (all) obligations (covenants, etc), and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the Pagans as well as against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizia (a tax levied on the Jews and Christians) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (as it is revealed in 9:29). So the Muslims were not permitted to abandon the fighting against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are strong and have the ability to fight against them. So at first the fighting was forbidden, then it was permitted, and after that it was made obligatory [Introduction to English translation of Sahih Bukhari, p.xxiv.] Dr. Sobhy as-Saleh, a contemporary Islamic academician quoted Imam Suyuti the author of Itqan Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an who wrote: The command to fight the infidels was delayed until the Muslims become strong, but when they were weak they were commanded to endure and be patient. [ Sobhy as_Saleh, Mabaheth Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an, Dar al-'Ilm Lel-Malayeen, Beirut, 1983, p. 269.]Dr. Sobhy, in a footnote, commends the opinion of a scholar named Zarkashi who said: Allah the most high and wise revealed to Mohammad in his weak condition what suited the situation, because of his mercy to him and his followers. For if He gave them the command to fight while they were weak it would have been embarrassing and most difficult, but when the most high made Islam victorious He commanded him with what suited the situation, that is asking the people of the Book to become Muslims or to pay the levied tax, and the infidels to become Muslims or face death. These two options, to fight or to have peace return according to the strength or the weakness of the Muslims. [ibid p. 270]Other Islamic scholars (Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi, Ga'far ar-Razi, Rabi' Ibn 'Ons, 'Abil-'Aliyah, Abd ar-Rahman Ibn Zayd Ibn 'Aslam, etc.) agree that the verse Slay the idolaters wherever you find them (9:5) cancelled those few earlier verses that called for tolerance in the Qur'an and were revealed when Islam was weak. Can you still say that Islam is the religion of peace? We propose a solution.

We know too well that it is not easy to denounce our faith because it means denouncing a part of ourselves. We are a group of freethinkers and humanists with Islamic roots. Discovering the truth and leaving the religion of our fathers and forefathers was a painful experience. But after learning what Islam stands for we had no choice but to leave it. After becoming familiar with the Qur'an the choice became clear: It is either Islam or humanity. If Islam thrives, then humanity will die. We decided to side with humanity. Culturally we are still Muslims but we no longer believe in Islam as the true religion of God. We are humanists. We love humanity. We work for the unity of humankind. We work for equality between men and women. We strive for the secularisation of Islamic countries, for democracy and freedom of thought, belief and expression. We decided to live no longer in self-deception but to embrace humanity, and to enter into the new millennium hand in hand with people of other cultures and beliefs in amity and in peace.We denounce the violence that is eulogized in the Qur'an as holy war (Jihad). We condemn killing in the name of God. We believe in the sanctity of human life, not in the inviolability of beliefs and religions. We invite you to join us and the rest of humanity and become part of the family of humankind - in love, camaraderie and peace.

Arabic translation الترجمة العربية

See http://www.centerforinquiry.net/isis and http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ for more.

Please copy this article, and distribute it as widely as possible, both online and physically. The future of humanity depends on it.

« First    « Previous    Comments 1070 - 1109 of 1,109    Last »

1070   dr6B   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 16, 4:26pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

FortWayne says
it doesn't promote disgusting things


Ephesians 6:5 - "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."

1 Corinthians 14:33-35 - "For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."

Exodus 35:2 – " For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death."

Deuteronomy 25:11-12 – "If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity."

Numbers 31:14-18 – "Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."

Hosea 13:16 - "The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."
1071   dr6B   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 16, 4:27pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
Instead, after all that success, the Romans made the classic mistake of thinking that it could trust its borders to non-assimilating barbarians, And that was many centuries later, which by the USA's timeline would be the year 2250-2300.

Another issue is that it went from mostly a nation of free farmers to semi-serfs, with most land owned by large landowners by the end of empire. Same is happening in West now, where a very small group of super-rich own more than everyone else.
1072   dr6B   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 16, 4:31pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says
My guess...........The Burkha crap started because Arab husbands were very jealous if other men drooled at her, and she started flirting. Women being property had no choice, but to wear the Burkha. A 90 year old woman has to wear that black garbage bag in the middle of the desert. Pure human rights abuse.


Note that Franks is Arab name for Westerners.

An Arab Opinion of the Crusaders

USAMAH
Twelfth century

FRANKS LACK JEALOUSY IN SEX AFFAIRS

The Franks are void of all zeal and jealousy. One of them may be walking along with his wife. He meets another man who takes the wife by the hand and steps aside to converse with her while the husband is standing on one side waiting for his wife to conclude the conversation. If she lingers too long for him, he leaves her alone with the conversant and goes away.

Here is an illustration which I myself witnessed:
When I used to visit Nablus, I always took lodging with a man named Mu'izz, whose home was a lodginghouse for the Moslems. The house had windows which opened to the road, and there stood opposite to it on the other side of the road a house belonging to a Frank who sold wine for the merchants. He would take some wine in a bottle and go around announcing it by shouting, "So and so, the merchant, has just opened a cask full of this wine. He who wants to buy some of it will find it in such and such a place." The Frank's pay for the announcement made would be the wine in that bottle. One day this Frank went home and found a man with his wife in the same bed. He asked him, "What could have made you enter into my wife's room?" The man replied, "I was tired, so I went in to rest." "But how," asked he, "did you get into my bed?" The other replied, well, I found a bed that was spread, so I slept in it." "But," said he, "my wife was sleeping together with you!" The other replied, "Well, the bed is hers. How could I therefore have prevented her from using her own bed?" "By the truth of my religion," said the husband, "if you should do it again, you and I would have a quarrel." Such was for the Frank the entire expression of his disapproval and the limit of his jealousy. . . .
1073   Rin   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 16, 10:32pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

dr6B says
Rin says
Instead, after all that success, the Romans made the classic mistake of thinking that it could trust its borders to non-assimilating barbarians, And that was many centuries later, which by the USA's timeline would be the year 2250-2300.

Another issue is that it went from mostly a nation of free farmers to semi-serfs, with most land owned by large landowners by the end of empire. Same is happening in West now, where a very small group of super-rich own more than everyone else.


Which also supports the idea of a foreign rule preference over local, as the local Patricians, at least whomsoever was left by the 5th/6th centuries, didn't have the interest of his peasant farmers in mind.

The last unofficial ruler of the western Empire was not Odoacer (as the Cliff Notes say) but Theodoric, an Ostrogoth warlord. After that succession, ties with Constantinople were severed and the two sides of the former Roman Empire went their separate ways forever. Theodoric had also lost regional control over the Vandals and Visigoths on the borders of the Italian peninsula which in effect, gave rise to Medieval Europe.
1074   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 16, 10:37pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
It was due to ... you guessed it, MULTICULTURALISM & OUTSOURCING of one's defenses. The Roman Empire used barbarian mercenary armies to protect its perimeter instead of true Italian armies and soon enough, these foreign warlords wanted a piece of the action and before you know it, new NON-ROMAN NATIONALITIES grew up, all over the place, supplanting a once united Empire. Does that sound like anything going on today, with non-assimilating Islamic communities in the west?


Let me add to this great insight:

Previously, the backbone of the Roman Army were sons of Rural Italian Farmers. However, between Slavery and Enclosures, the rural Farmers were pushed into the cities, then they were replaced by Slaves at those manual and skilled labor jobs. Because a Greek Mason-Slave is cheaper than a Saucy Roman Bricklayer.

"We don't need our own workers anymore. More Slaves!"... sounds familiar.
1075   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Sep 17, 8:59am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

That’s history of it’s time, that’s not taught these days. Unless you believe America is still slavery nation just because of pre 1863. Time to move on.

Think about it mr. logical.

Strategist says
FortWayne says
Strategist says
Keep in mind a lot of stuff in the Bible is immoral. Not just immoral, but disgusting and unacceptable in the modern world, which is why Christianity is on the decline.


Bible is a history book, it doesn't promote disgusting things.


The Bible tells you how to treat slaves, and what their price is. I find it disgusting and immoral, and so should you.
1076   Rin   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 17, 1:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Rin says
It was due to ... you guessed it, MULTICULTURALISM & OUTSOURCING of one's defenses. The Roman Empire used barbarian mercenary armies to protect its perimeter instead of true Italian armies and soon enough, these foreign warlords wanted a piece of the action and before you know it, new NON-ROMAN NATIONALITIES grew up, all over the place, supplanting a once united Empire. Does that sound like anything going on today, with non-assimilating Islamic communities in the west?


Let me add to this great insight:

Previously, the backbone of the Roman Army were sons of Rural Italian Farmers. However, between Slavery and Enclosures, the rural Farmers were pushed into the cities, then they were replaced by Slaves at those manual and skilled labor jobs. Because a Greek Mason-Slave is cheaper than a Saucy Roman Bricklayer.

"We don't need our own workers anymore. More...


Which all and all, indicates that sex between men and women, didn't result in the fall of the Empire, as FortWayne likes to assert, as he's a one trick pony and doesn't know jack about history, despite knowing the fact that even his beloved President Trump also sees hoes.
1077   dr6B   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 17, 1:46pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
beloved President Trump also sees hoes.


But that is completely different, as Trump is one of the Founding Fathers and thus in mind of many can do anything without soiling his reputation and/or Depends.
Edit: and I do not hold Trump's escapades with hoes against him, and neither his "grab by pussy" talk. If anything, that makes him more normal than the average politician.
1078   Rin   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 17, 1:48pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

dr6B says
Rin says
beloved President Trump also sees hoes.


But that is completely different, as Trump is one of the Founding Fathers and thus in mind of many can do anything without soiling his reputation and/or Depends.
Edit: and I do not hold Trump's escapades with hoes against him, and neither his "grab by pussy" talk. If anything, that makes him more normal than the average politician.


Sorry, but if Trump can see hoes then so can I.
1079   dr6B   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 17, 1:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
Sorry, but if Trump can see hoes then so can I.

I most certainly support legalization of prostitution, and you or anyone else (incl President Trump) who wishes so should be able to use services of hoes legally and safely, without any fear of prosecution and blackmail.

Hope that you caught sarcasm in my comment...I might need to invest in developing a special "sarcasm" font because it is often not recognized.

Edit: WRT to Trump, Stormy Daniels or whatever other hoe issues should not be held against him as it is his personal life and none of our business. However, I fail to understand how persons can think that prostitution is bad, and talk about Sanctity of Marriage (TM) and at the same time ignore the fact that their beloved president who can do no wrong is banging hoes while being married.
1080   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Sep 17, 3:19pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

At what age should it be legal to teach young boys and girls about prostitution careers?

Because once society oks something, there are those who will scream it’s their right to sell and promote being a hoe.

Rin you only think of your own pleasure here, you aren’t thinking of consequences as you have lived consequences free life.

Rin says
dr6B says
Rin says
beloved President Trump also sees hoes.


But that is completely different, as Trump is one of the Founding Fathers and thus in mind of many can do anything without soiling his reputation and/or Depends.
Edit: and I do not hold Trump's escapades with hoes against him, and neither his "grab by pussy" talk. If anything, that makes him more normal than the average politician.


Sorry, but if Trump can see hoes then so can I.
1081   dr6B   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 17, 3:51pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

FortWayne says
Because once society oks something,


There is a huge difference between saying "something is OK" and putting people in jail for that something. We can say something is wrong yet not punish people for it, as adults should be able to do whatever they please with their bodies if they do not demand that society pay for their excesses. I am personally fine with ALL drugs being legal (that is, not putting people in jail for them), but I do not think it is OK to use hard drugs such as heroin.

Left-wing "liberal" feminists are often against prostitution, since it is "demeaning" to womyn.
1082   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Sep 17, 4:13pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Society has only ok or not ok when it comes to sweeping laws.

If it’s ok, anyone and everyone has right to do it, say it, promote it. It’s either legal or it’s not.

dr6B says
FortWayne says
Because once society oks something,


There is a huge difference between saying "something is OK" and putting people in jail for that something. We can say something is wrong yet not punish people for it, as adults should be able to do whatever they please with their bodies if they do not demand that society pay for their excesses. I am personally fine with ALL drugs being legal (that is, not putting people in jail for them), but I do not think it is OK to use hard drugs such as heroin.

Left-wing "liberal" feminists are often against prostitution, since it is "demeaning" to womyn.
1083   curious2   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 17, 4:29pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

In a free society, everything is legal except the few things that are prohibited. For example, the government will not punish you for deciding to use drain cleaner as toothpaste or mouthwash, even though brushing and rinsing with drain cleaner would be a potentially dangerous mistake.

Returning to the OP topic, a basic problem of Islam is that it is "a complete system" that prohibits a free society. The whole premise is that everyone must be a slave to Allah, which in practice means being a slave to the dead charlatan Mohamad or whoever is in charge to speak for him. Islam commands Sharia and thus prohibits separating mosque from state.

In that regard, some who call themselves Christian have the same problem, unable to distinguish between church and state, but to a lesser degree because Christianity doesn't say many of the things that Islam says. Christianity does not command uniting church and state, though many who call themselves Christian do demand that.

Also, Islam's emphasis on conquest, and Christianity's emphasis on meekness and submission, make the two a dangerous combination. When the Pope tells Christian countries in Europe to import Muslims, he is facilitating Islamic conquest and Christian submission.
1084   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 17, 6:32pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I just read most retarded comparison between The Troubles and Islamofascism.

The Troubles were a largely political battle between those who wanted Ulster to be part of Ireland and the majority (at least when it started) those who wanted it to be British. It was not fought to make Ireland or Ulster Catholic or Protestant, and not even the most rabid PIRA/UDF member had any idea of converting the whole Island, much less the world.

In ~30 years, about 3800 people died, little over 100 per year, half of whom were combatants (British Army, Ulster Paramilitary, Irish Nationalists). Differing Organization's tallies of civilian vs. combatant differ only by a few percentage points. Many, but not all, of the remaining civilian deaths were unintentional, a result of mistaken identity, bad timing, or poor intelligence by all sides.

In contrast, between Summer 2014 and Summer 2016, more than 2000 people were killed outside the Levant (Iraq and Syria) by ISIS militants and Sympathizers. That's not counting other Islamist Attacks.such as those by Hezbollah, Hamas, Houthis, or non-ISIS Affiliates like the Taliban.

In 2016, there there thousands of Islamist Attacks resulting in the deaths of ~11,000 people worldwide. This is 3x the Entire Toll of the 30-year Troubles in one Year.
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/terror-2016.htm

The Death Toll in Syria alone is estimated between 300,000-500,000 in just the past few years, the vast majority civilians, again contrasted to 30 years of the Troubles. That's not including ISIS or AQ deaths in Iraq.
1085   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 17, 6:59pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
not even the most rabid PIRA/UDF member had any idea of converting the whole Island, much less the world


True. The Republican flag makes a point of including Orange, the "Protestant" color, to show them that they are certainly welcome in the Republic. And no Protestant is proposing that Catholicism be illegal in Great Britain (except that the royal family is not allowed to marry Catholics). It's really a tribal thing about who should be in charge in Ireland, the native Irish Catholic majority, or the descendants of Protestant invaders. The colors and religions are just markers of tribal identity.

Islamic terrorism is on the other hand a demand that the whole world submit to Islam or pay the annual jizya ransom to remain alive. Muslims murder random innocent people all around the world because Islam demands eternal war on unbelievers.
1086   jazz_music   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 17, 7:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

dr6B says
Left-wing "liberal" feminists are often against prostitution, since it is "demeaning" to womyn.

I'm against prostitution, but that doesn't mean we need to invest in passing a law about it.

Prostitution is demeaning to everybody involved.

Prostitution is something to be sad about, very much intertwined with slavery, theft, kidnapping and violence.
1087   mell   ignore (2)   2018 Sep 17, 7:14pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

jazz_music says
dr6B says
Left-wing "liberal" feminists are often against prostitution, since it is "demeaning" to womyn.

I'm against prostitution, but that doesn't mean we need to invest in passing a law about it.

Prostitution is demeaning to everybody involved.

Prostitution is something to be sad about, very much intertwined with slavery, theft, kidnapping and violence.


They are not against prostitution because it's demeaning, but because it restricts their already puny sexual options due to almost non-existent sexual market value (i.e. looks). The goal of feminists is to restrict male sexuality to the highest degree while maximizing women's sexual options without any responsibility for the outcomes. That's why they often see prostitutes as dangerous competition. They will also call for the ban of sex robots and Rin will have to use his wealth to support his cause and freedom, or just emigrate.
1088   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Sep 17, 8:59pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

how quickly people forget 9/11, when Muslims tried to start a holy war against US. We had at least a few month of patriotism in the media.
1089   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 17, 9:13pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I wouldn't say it's so much that people themselves forgot 9/11, but instead that Saudi Arabia uses its trillions to make sure that their central involvement in the attack is not brought up.
1090   Rin   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 17, 10:32pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

FortWayne says
At what age should it be legal to teach young boys and girls about prostitution careers?

Because once society oks something, there are those who will scream it’s their right to sell and promote being a hoe.


At this point in time, porn is legal and thus, anyone has the right to promote one's porn career. If you noticed, porn is prostitution but with a camera attached. That's how it's been pseudo-legalized across the USA, even though that's not true decriminalization.

And as we know, that age is 18, as when Traci Lords admitted that she'd lied about her age during her porn shoots, all the distributors destroyed their copies of her films, as that was CHILD PORN, an actual crime in this country of ours, along with other Anglo peer nations like Canada, Britain, Australia, and New Zealand, nevermind the other 1st/2nd world nations.

So yes, even ppl in the porn industry know when to pull the plug on the young ones.

FortWayne says
Rin you only think of your own pleasure here, you aren’t thinking of consequences as you have lived consequences free life


Why don't you have that heart to heart talk with our Commander in Chief, a man who only thinks of his own pleasure? And one whose job title is considerably higher than my own.


jazz_music says
Prostitution is something to be sad about, very much intertwined with slavery, theft, kidnapping and violence.


You forgot about college aged women wanting to buy a Louis Vuitton bag, you know, the ones which costs a grand or so. Don't think that all women want to become hedge fund managers, neurosurgeons, or heaven forbid ... programmer analysts.

mell says
They are not against prostitution because it's demeaning, but because it restricts their already puny sexual options due to almost non-existent sexual market value (i.e. looks). The goal of feminists is to restrict male sexuality to the highest degree while maximizing women's sexual options without any responsibility for the outcomes. That's why they often see prostitutes as dangerous competition. They will also call for the ban of sex robots and Rin will have to use his wealth to support his cause and freedom, or just emigrate.


All true.
1091   curious2   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 17, 10:34pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
I wouldn't say it's so much that people themselves forgot 9/11, but instead that Saudi Arabia uses its trillions to make sure that their central involvement in the attack is not brought up.


...and especially that NATO MSM and politicians deny always the central role of Islam itself. As long as they can point to at least one Muslim who didn't personally fly an airliner into an office tower on 9/11, politicians can continue pretending the motive (Islam) had nothing to do with the crime.
1092   Rin   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 17, 10:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

dr6B says
same time ignore the fact that their beloved president who can do no wrong is banging hoes while being married.


And that why I don't like Puritans because unlike the President, I haven't even dated in 7+ years, nevermind the conjoined wife & kids. If anything, I'm living a true life, one of work and then, of hoes! No woman can ever accuse me of cheating because I haven't given 'em the time of day.
1093   Rin   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 17, 10:54pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

curious2 says

...and especially that NATO MSM and politicians deny always the central role of Islam itself. As long as they can point to at least one Muslim who didn't personally fly an airliner into an office tower on 9/11, politicians can continue pretending the motive (Islam) had nothing to do with the crime.


This is the problem with the idea that ALL international religions whether it be Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc, are suppose to have their distinct merits, among their adherents. Unfortunately, to say that Islam is little more than a front for Medieval Arabic Colonialism would be the equivalent of a global Rushdie explosion.
1095   dr6B   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 18, 8:04am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

jazz_music says
Prostitution is something to be sad about, very much intertwined with slavery, theft, kidnapping and violence.

It is intertwined with these things because it is illegal. Just like booze was connected with extortion, crime, and murders when some "bright" people decided to make it illegal.
1096   dr6B   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 18, 8:05am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
If you noticed, porn is prostitution but with a camera attached. That's how it's been pseudo-legalized across the USA, even though that's not true decriminalization.


+escort services, +sugardaddies, and other things that are prostitution in everything but name.
1097   dr6B   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 18, 8:07am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

jazz_music says
Prostitution is demeaning to everybody involved.

Also, I'd say that this is an attitude straight from Christian beliefs. Why is exchange of money for mutually agreed service demeaning in any way?
1098   Rin   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 18, 9:27am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

dr6B says
jazz_music says
Prostitution is demeaning to everybody involved.

Also, I'd say that this is an attitude straight from Christian beliefs. Why is exchange of money for mutually agreed service demeaning in any way?


This has been my point, all along. The thing which Oliver Cromwell's fanboys, a.k.a Puritans, brought to the United States was this notion.

When Cromwell's dictatorship ended, the theatres reopened in England and ppl were free of Cromwell's "Divine Providence", once again. Fast forward a few centuries and today, seeing hoes is legal in Britain but illegal in the USA, the so-called home of the free.

Here's the Puritanism ...



1099   Rin   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 18, 9:37am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

dr6B says
+escort services, +sugardaddies, and other things that are prostitution in everything but name.


Not exactly, the above are 'enforced' relationships.

In other words, the idea is that one has to form a 'relationship' before boinking and thus, it's the most legal form of hypocrisy out there.

The only legal prostitution is porn, because the mere presence of the camera around incites First Amendment protection of free speech. If the studio forgets to 'roll the film', then the cops can bust up the place. So if you want to film your own movie, don't forget to getting some working equipment, pun intended.
1100   dr6B   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 18, 9:47am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
The only legal prostitution is porn, because the mere presence of the camera around incites First Amendment protection of free speech. If the studio forgets to 'roll the film', then the cops can bust up the place. So if you want to film your own movie, don't forget to getting some working equipment, pun intended.

Then, I'd guess, the way around illegality of prostitution would be to have customer of whorehouse bring his own camera and film the encounter, thus making it perfectly legal.
1101   Rin   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 18, 9:53am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

dr6B says
Rin says
The only legal prostitution is porn, because the mere presence of the camera around incites First Amendment protection of free speech. If the studio forgets to 'roll the film', then the cops can bust up the place. So if you want to film your own movie, don't forget to getting some working equipment, pun intended.

Then, I'd guess, the way around illegality of prostitution would be to have customer of whorehouse bring his own camera and film the encounter, thus making it perfectly legal.


I would suspect then it would probably have to be auto-saved, put on a server for a bit of time for purchase/download, and then strategically deleted periodically. Remember, the courts need to show that it was for the sake for boinking and not for movie making for a conviction.

As for escorting, the way it works is that if I wanted to go to the Indian casinos in Connecticut, I'd have to meet the escort at the tables, play a few hands of blackjack, before going back to the room for a romp because my intent was to play cards, and the boinking followed, as a result of the relationship forged at the tables. In Montreal, I have the choice of doing whatever I want and yes, I'd even taken an escort to the casino there, but after the boink.

So for CT, if the escort was undercover vice, the moment she arrives and we go to the tables, the gig is up. She'll have to leave and go home because the 'eyes in the sky' is evidence of a relationship at the tables.
1102   Rin   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 18, 10:42am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
So for CT, if the escort was undercover vice, the moment she arrives and we go to the tables, the gig is up. She'll have to leave and go home because the 'eyes in the sky' is evidence of a relationship at the tables.


"Your honor, we have CCTV footage of Rin & Misty, playing blackjack for four rounds, prior to going up to the hotel room.

As you can see from the footage, he'd bought her two Manhattans and she was pretending to count cards (as if she has any talent for that), to give assistance per round. If anything, this is a relationship and thus, undercover Misty is guilty of entrapment because it's perfectly fine for a guy to take his new acquaintance to his hotel room."

Trust me, only an idiot DA would even attempt to prosecute the above.
1105   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 18, 9:00pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

curious2 says
Under Pakistani law, blasphemy against Islam is punishable by death.


This is remarkably similar to conditions in the West, where any questioning of the ruling ideology is punishable by being expelled, fired, or even jailed (in the UK).

In both cases, the draconian punishments reflect a deep fear that the ruling ideology is in fact so weak that it cannot withstand open criticism or even debate.
1108   curious2   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 19, 2:52pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Blue says
Pakistan troops slit BSF jawan's throat along International Border.


Pakistan is a terrorist state, as per Islam, enabled by US support.

« First    « Previous    Comments 1070 - 1109 of 1,109    Last »





The Housing Trap
You're being set up to spend your life paying off a debt you don't need to take on, for a house that costs far more than it should. The conspirators are all around you, smiling to lure you in, carefully choosing their words and watching your reactions as they push your buttons, anxiously waiting for the moment when you sign the papers that will trap you and guarantee their payoff. Don't be just another victim of the housing market. Use this book to defend your freedom and defeat their schemes. You can win the game, but first you have to learn how to play it.
115 pages, $12.50

Kindle version available


about   best comments   contact   one year ago   suggestions