patrick.net

Well I have no problem with that, because I don't break the law.
And if I ever were to, I'd just take the battery out of my phone.

How are those Justices working for you guys?

Everybody pick out a good pair Goose stepping boots yet?

I want patent black leather with red stripes. This regime strikes me as a red streak type of Fascists.

What do you think?

T .... if it were only that easy. It isn't. The courts have ruled that they can come onto your property and plant a GPS tracking device on your car. Apparently the Gestapo, I mean, the government, wants to know if you are going anywhere that might be verboten. This is perfectly understandable. Maybe they’re concerned we might drive off a cliff and they want to be able to warn us? Big Brother always looks out for our best interests. War is Peace, Ignorance is Freedom, etc.

Where do I sign up for my very own tinfoil hat?

simchaland says

Where do I sign up for my very own tinfoil hat?

We have a special tinfoil hat made especially for you. It's the one stamped with the saying:
"I completely trust my government" written for all to see.

Tinfoil: AKA aluminum foil.

ALUMINUM FUN FACTS:
ATOMIC NUMBER: 13
ATOMIC WEIGHT: 26.98154
ATOMIC VOLUME: 10.0 cm3/mol

This was coming anyway. It's a sad statement of our times. We are increasingly giving up liberty for security. In doing so, we've become less secure in our persons.

This decision was double plus bad. I guess I need to brush up on my Newspeak so I can survive.

thunderlips11 says

The opposition party only embraces civil liberties when it’s out of power. When it’s in power, it justifies every evaporation of the 4th Amendment rights and others as “unfortunately necessary, and those who don’ think so don’t understand that this time it’s different. They’re unserious, unrealistic extremists.”

100% correct. The GOPers didn't have any problem (for the most part) when Bush, et all rammed through the Patriot Act. On the other hand, when Obama, et all extended it, the Dems yawned away.

RayAmerica says

the Dems yawned away.

We Liberals didn't. We've continued to speak out against the Patriot Act.

thunderlips11 says

Who do I vote for if I don’t want unilateral free trade (we lower our tariffs, whether they do or not)? A non-interventionist (but not isolationist) foreign policy? More regulation of Big Business but less for Small Companies and Moms and Pops?

I don't know but if you find such a political animal that has a chance in aitch-ee-double-hockey-sticks of winning, let me know.

The courts have ruled that the government has the right to track your movements by using GPS devices without your consent or knowledge.

Only if your stupid enough to own one!

The gummint doesn't need a warrant to track your vehicle on public property by traditional physical means -- black helicopters, space lasers, etc.

This GPS device doesn't really change this power, it just amplifies it.

As for the invasion of privacy of one's private property (when first attaching the GPS tagger), that is a separate issue.

If, for example, the tagger was attached via remote-controlled robot that did not surveil while on private property, it's difficult seeing the infringement of privacy. Or if it was attached when the car was on public property.

Having said that, requiring law enforcement to get a warrant for this doesn't seem like that big an imposition.

Problem is there is no real "search" here, and that's what warrants detail, what is to be searched and why. Hence law enforcement not bothering to take out a warrant I guess.

so what happens if i see them do this and i don't want the stinking thing on my vehicle, so i take it off and discard it, because i don't want to get worse gas mileage, and the drag it would put on my vehicle would certainly make me less of the Go Greener! champion that i am? Am i required to allow them to keep it on there or am i allowed to remove it and destroy it?

what moron wants to pay tax dollars for these physical GPS tracking devices?

it will be placed in your forehead. No worries.

Bap33 says

it will be placed in your forehead. No worries.

buy gold?

errc says

Bap33 says

it will be placed in your forehead. No worries.

buy gold?

They'll put the chip between your shoulder blades like they do to cats and dogs you adopt at the local pound. It's only a slight pinch and you won't even feel it once it's healed. Never mind the comparison between citizen and pet. Just keep working and paying your taxes and you won't even notice it...

OH MY GOD THEY'RE IN MY CEREAL

All of you have it wrong. Don't you read the bible?

The mark of the beast will be in your hand so that you can swipe it to make cashless-society transactions, record your medical history, as well as send a GPS tracking signal to the authorities. Bonus points if the chip can read your blood-alcohol level (being tested currently on Lindsay Lohan) and your emotional state of being, then zap your central nervous system so that you collapse at the push of a button. It'll be like a human black-box for crime scenes combined with an instant tranquilizer dart.

Troy says

If, for example, the tagger was attached via remote-controlled robot that did not surveil while on private property, it’s difficult seeing the infringement of privacy. Or if it was attached when the car was on public property.

Having said that, requiring law enforcement to get a warrant for this doesn’t seem like that big an imposition.

Problem is there is no real “search” here, and that’s what warrants detail, what is to be searched and why. Hence law enforcement not bothering to take out a warrant I guess.

Well if this device can be put on my car with out my knowledge or consent, and it is only GPS data that is collected. Then I don't see how this could be indisputable evidence.
Because at that point, if the Perp doesn't go to the places that some Zealous prosecutor or detective is expecting a guy they have been investigating but can't catch dirty.

These cops could just put the device on their car, drive where they needed the perp to be, take the GPS device off his car, and present that as evidence that it was on the bad guys car.

Where is the public's protection from this type of dirty cop shit?

Come on guys, they started chipping away our rights with Bush Sr. and there hasn't been a president since that has showed a remote interest in restoring many of our basic rights and freedoms, in fact they signed the papers as more liberties have been taken away from us.

This isn't a party problem.

Nomo ... Troy ... for your benefit, to clarify the situation: as it stands, government agents are allowed to enter your property (driveway) and install a tracking device on your property (car) without your consent or knowledge and track your every movement when driving your vehicle.

Nomograph says

Instead of your usual whining and complaining, why not help get a law passed? This can be easily made illegal. And lets face it RayRay: If the judges had overturned the ruling, you would be posting about how Obama’s liberal activist judges are freeing convicted drug dealers.

LOL! When it comes to whining, you're a charter member in Patrick's Hall of Fame. Please tell me how passing a law to prevent this abuse of our rights would be "easily made legal." Details would be appreciated. Apparently, you are in denial as to the power of the courts and their ability to chip away at our rights based on their political activism. Stay comfortable in your conviction that this is all about party politics. At least I'm consistent. I criticized the creation and passage of the Patriot Act under Bush and its subsequent extension under your Dear Leader. Where were you?

I don't see anything posted from you criticizing Obama for his extention on this thread:

http://patrick.net/?p=28766

IF he hadn't allowed it to be extended, some of your friends (Ray) would have labeled Obama weak on terrorism.

He has picked his battles, and taking on the patriot act was not one of them. But sure, it would be nice to see it undone. Then again, it would be nice if we didn't have to worry about terrorism.

marcus ... the point was very well illustrated by thunder' on this thread which I totally agree with. Our rights are being eroded by both parties. As far as Obama extending the Patriot Act, are you implying he did so because he didn't want the political fallout for doing the right thing? That sounds like the actions of what I believe he is; just another political hack and not the "agent of change" he fraudulently portrayed himself to be. But then again, what more would you expect from a politician that is deeply entrenched with the Chicago political machine?

Silence Ray Ray, you're making to much sense.

RayAmerica says

As far as Obama extending the Patriot Act, are you implying he did so because he didn’t want the political fallout for doing the right thing?

I really don't know all of the reasons. It may partly have been based on information that he has access to and we don't. But yes, part of it may have been politics. If a leader has a list of 10 things that he strongly believes are the right thing, he has to choose which battles he is going to fight.

Some call it using "political capital." You can say it makes him just another a political hack.

What does "just another" political hack mean ?

Is that someone who is very competent in politics, but uses that to fight for policy you disagree with ?

Do you think that he wants power for it's own sake, just so that he can admire himself, and his awesome power ?

Or does he actually wish to be a great leader who has many positive impacts on America ?

By the way, I am not so happy about certain compromises Obama has made. And it's hard to be optimistic about a President if he or she isn't supported enough, by congress or by voters. Many think that a change in composition of congress can somehow be a good thing for Obama. I don't know. But clearly he was aware that certain parts of his legislative agenda needed to be addressed before that happened.

I still am somewhat optimistic, that is, given all of the circumstances.

RayAmerica says

are you implying he did so because he didn’t want the political fallout for doing the right thing? That sounds like the actions of what I believe he is; just another political hack and not the “agent of change” he fraudulently portrayed himself to be

Keeping the PATRIOT Act is basic game theory.

Assuming PATRIOT did not aid in any major breach of civil rights, you've got two choices and two outcomes, resulting in 4 permutations with different costs.

Keep PATRIOT + No major terrorist event = minor cost of the tinfoil brigade complaining about lost liberties they can't identify

Keep PATRIOT + Major terrorist event = Ass is covered

Lose PATROT + Major terrorist event = Ass is grass

Lose PATRIOT + No major terrorist event = Everyone is happy.

So the Keep PATRIOT option has the possible results of { minor cost | Ass is covered }
The Lost PATRIOT option has the possible results of { Ass is grass | Everyone is happy }

Much of the "Everyone is happy" crowd isn't going to vote for Obama anyway so appeasing them isn't politically rewarding.

I hope you enjoyed this education on how the Real World works. It's also called triangulating.

I agree with Troy with a couple exceptions.

I don't see those who worry about the slippery slope of lost privacy and government surveillance as "tinfoil brigade."

I think that probably at least half of the "everyone is happy" crowd did vote for Obama.

Also, it's not just about outcomes and political cost/reward. There is also the very real possibility that they get quality terrorist related intelligence from the Patriot act.

Question for Troy:

When the Patriot Act was originally initiated, were you in favor of its passage?

Other than the stupid name, I didn't see any problems with it, no.

Having lived in Japan in the 90s I had already assumed my international phone calls were captured by intelligence agencies.

While I'd personally prefer total privacy in communications, I also acknowledge that electronic eavesdropping is a necessary police investigatory tool and that the law needed to be modernized with the arrival of the Internet age.

I find it pretty amazing that there are so many people that have ZERO problem with a government agent, without your knowledge or consent, plants a tracking device on your car while it sits on your private property. Our liberties are being eroded incrementally and will continue to do so if we do not strongly protest these blatantly unconstitutional activities.

RayAmerica says

I find it pretty amazing that there are so many people that have ZERO problem with a government agent, without your knowledge or consent, plants a tracking device on your car while it sits on your private property. Our liberties are being eroded incrementally and will continue to do so if we do not strongly protest these blatantly unconstitutional activities.

It applies to the area covered by that court and will be taken to the supreme court. I guess that it doesn't bother me much, because I don't do anything that would even remotely interest the gub'mint enough to care about me. there are soooooooooooooooo many limited laws out there.

RayAmerica says

At least I’m consistent. I criticized

There's a difference between consistency and single-issue obsession.

Nomograph says

That is why I will never vote for Conservative or Republican candidates again.

Uh, are all "Conservative or Republican candidates" against "civil rights, the U.S Constitution, and personal responsibility?"

Troy says

Other than the stupid name, I didn’t see any problems with it, no.

True, it should have had a different title. And i agree with your analysis.

@CBO,
they may start with the hand, but if you read close you will see that the forehead is also mentioned. My guess is they do this because bad guys will simply cut off the hands of people that have credits, and use their credits by using their hands, absent their bodies. I'm not suggesting that the same bad guys wont do the same thing for the head-mounted credit chip access ... but, maybe, the idea is there is no way a druggie can swap their head for their habit, while they could swap their hand for their habit.

Extortion and ransoms paid by turning over rich relatives hands could happen - like if someone kidnapped Gate's grandson and demanded Gate's hand with the credit chip in exchange for the tot. They just might be able to pull it off (no pun). But, Gates would not be willing nor likely to have his head removed so his credits can be used by someone else.

Also, a person can be born without a hand. Or lose their hand in an accident.

Both spots are a very likely way things will be done. And the scar from having it placed will be really easy to see ... like the old vaccination things on the shoulder.

Just tossing out thoughts.

...and we'd all be typing with our noses...

I will not be using my nose

Bap33 says

I will not be using my nose

Smelled that one coming, I did. :)

You people crack me up. Yea yea, George Orwell 1984. If you haven't noticed, the gov really could care less what you think because you don't elect them. Big money does. They aren't going to bug average citizens to find out who opposes them because they all know that most of us disapprove of most of them. All the parties get together and laugh about nothings like you and your "movements" and your blogs. The only thing they seriously debate is how they can possibly shanghi the popular fervor to use in their next dog and pony show to get elected. Now if they want to gps vehicles of suspected terrorists I'm 100% for it- we are at war. In addition, we should be tracking movements of domestic terrorists that kill 15000 people a year in the united states. They are more commonly known as street gangs. We need to declare total war on these savages. 15000 a year. Sort of makes foreign terrorists look a bit impotent by comparison.

deanrite says

Now if they want to gps vehicles of suspected terrorists I’m 100% for it- we are at war. In addition, we should be tracking movements of domestic terrorists that kill 15000 people a year in the united states. They are more commonly known as street gangs. We need to declare total war on these savages. 15000 a year. Sort of makes foreign terrorists look a bit impotent by comparison.

AMEN ... great post.

deanrite says

They are more commonly known as street gangs. We need to declare total war on these savages. 15000 a year. Sort of makes foreign terrorists look a bit impotent by comparison.

Those gangs are results of good kids being oppressed by the republicans. They need to express them selves, and you are a racist and a hater, if you don't like it when they hold convenient stores and shoot, a hard working Asian couple in the head execution style.
They deserve to be Glorified in music, and it should be required listening for White American youths between the age of 12 to 17.

Love overly educated Liberals everywhere.