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Teaching is clearly becoming a less and less desirable profession for Californians...


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2010 Dec 19, 6:02am   8,403 views  66 comments

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The number of Californians seeking to become teachers has plummeted by 45 percent over a seven year period – even as student enrollments are projected to rise by 230,000 over the next decade and as many as 100,000 teachers are expected to retire.

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http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/states-teacher-supply-plummets-7436

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1   Future Cash Buyer   2010 Dec 19, 7:24am  

teacher union give teachers a bad name

2   elliemae   2010 Dec 19, 7:30am  

That just plain sucks. But with cutbacks and the like, most people probably want a more stable profession.

3   bubblesitter   2010 Dec 19, 8:19am  

To make matters worse Jerry Brown has told to educators "get ready for a rough ride". Too bad California is the best place to live in America but has worst ranking in education. How can CA be the best to live in?

4   inflection point   2010 Dec 19, 9:37am  

Not really a suprise. Few future jobs, fewer benefits. Frankly I would be happier to see school aministration jobs become more rare. Now that would be an improvement.

In California you can expect the kids to suffer first. They are doing it for the kids sake of course.

5   bubblesitter   2010 Dec 19, 9:39am  

It is the race for which union gets the most out of the limited $ CA has.

6   inflection point   2010 Dec 19, 9:41am  

It will be very interesting to see what direction Jerry Brown will go.

7   zzyzzx   2010 Dec 20, 1:09am  

Clasroom size is way too small. There should be a minumum of 35 kids in each classroom. Anything less is just to line the pockets of unions.

8   thomaswong.1986   2010 Dec 20, 3:39am  

The state made dreadful mistake in believing the two booms (Tech and Housing) were long lasting and would provide enough revenue in the long run. In both cases they were wrong.

9   thomaswong.1986   2010 Dec 20, 3:40am  

inflection point says

It will be very interesting to see what direction Jerry Brown will go.

Some news reports have stated a massive, and very painful cut backs in spending starting in Jan2011.

10   inflection point   2010 Dec 20, 4:05am  

I have a co-worker whose spouse is a teacher. I get to hear the "wisdom" of how california education works, or not so much.

Having a large class is not an issue. The issue is that the teachers are expected to deal with a large class including non-english speaking students.

Which group would you focus on as an instructor? Oh, don't forget your performance will be measured on test scores, regardless of the class mix.

11   RC2006   2010 Dec 20, 4:15am  

With all the illegals and anchor babies education will never be as good as it once was. It will always be pockets of good schools from here on out for those in wealthy areas. What did anyone expect when we imported so many low skilled, none educated people; they don’t even have the basic skills to help there kids succeed. Who wants to be a teacher in that environment.

12   B.A.C.A.H.   2010 Dec 20, 1:18pm  

Mr.Fantastic says

Doesn’t matter. Chindians, tech workers, and 200k earners will just send their kids to private schools. All is well.

Oops, I think it might matter.

The tuition is figured into the housing cost for the high API public school in The Fortress. Probably no discretionary money left over to pay for Harker (or whatever).

But looked at a different way, I'd agree it doesn't matter.

For a different reason though.

You see, even if teacher pay is slashed and class sizes increased, the API scores will continue to be high. Because, those scores are achieved by the ethic of the parents imposed upon their kids, not because of the schools themselves. Those API scores would be just as high if the students had to sit elbow to elbow on the floor in an unheated garage to get their lessons.

The parents just don't seem to get it.

It's a huge scam.

13   zzyzzx   2010 Dec 21, 1:32am  

inflection point says

I have a co-worker whose spouse is a teacher. I get to hear the “wisdom” of how california education works, or not so much.
Having a large class is not an issue. The issue is that the teachers are expected to deal with a large class including non-english speaking students.
Which group would you focus on as an instructor? Oh, don’t forget your performance will be measured on test scores, regardless of the class mix.

Make English the official language and teach everything in English. If they don't leanr English, push them back across the border.

14   elliemae   2010 Dec 21, 10:33am  

zzyzzx says

Make English the official language and teach everything in English. If they don’t leanr English, push them back across the border.

considering that the country is predicted to have more "minorities" than white people in about 20 years, what if they stop teaching english altogether?

15   Â¥   2010 Dec 21, 11:40am  

rpanic01 says

With all the illegals and anchor babies education will never be as good as it once was.

This is backed up by my experience with Monterey Park elementary in the "good" corner of Salinas.

I was a student there in the late 70s and our middle middle-class family was basically the poorest in the catchment -- all my classmates were the kids of upper-middle class professionals (one friend's dad invented bagged salad LOL).

Now, 40% of the kids are ESL and 66% are classified as low-income. WTF.

El Gabilan in N Salinas is 55% ESL and 90% low-income. Only 1 out of 5 student's parents have a college background.

16   Bap33   2010 Dec 21, 12:39pm  

Troy, one of my racecar sponsors when I lived in Seaside and raced Watsonville regularly was the Bertelli Bros in Castroville. I have shook the hands of the bagged salad man. Small world.

17   Vicente   2010 Dec 21, 2:00pm  

Where's the future in teaching in California?

Everyone looks down on you, unlike back when Prop 13 was passed which used teachers as their "poster children". While old teachers could afford living near the schools they taught at, new teachers still cannot. At least it used to be you could count on job security and a decent pension at the end of all the guff and now that's going to be flushed too.

18   RC2006   2010 Dec 21, 11:30pm  

^^^

It’s still the truth, but the best you can come up with is a pic insinuating I am racist. Typical left answer call the person a racist that says something that’s not pc with your view.

19   Lectrician   2010 Dec 22, 12:22am  

The girlfriend is a teacher. The teacher's "union" does essentially nothing for them. Long hours, low pay and petty bureaucracy is all they can look forward to. The game is over with public education and has been for some time. We will most likely see a continued slide until social / economic revolution eclipses government as we know it.

20   elliemae   2010 Dec 22, 12:51am  

rpanic01 says

With all the illegals and anchor babies education will never be as good as it once was. It will always be pockets of good schools from here on out for those in wealthy areas. What did anyone expect when we imported so many low skilled, none educated people; they don’t even have the basic skills to help there kids succeed. Who wants to be a teacher in that environment.

rpanic01 says

^^^
It’s still the truth, but the best you can come up with is a pic insinuating I am racist. Typical left answer call the person a racist that says something that’s not pc with your view.

Just out of curiousity, what part of your previous statement isn't prejudicial and racist? Those illegals and "anchor babies" are children who want to learn and, like it or not, are part of the makeup of California people.

It's been pointed out that illegals who use other's social security numbers pay taxes but will never get refunds. They also often work the jobs that no one else wants to.

If you make a racist comment, you might want to expect someone to call you on it.

21   tatupu70   2010 Dec 22, 12:54am  

elliemae says

What did anyone expect when we imported so many low skilled, none educated people; they don’t even have the basic skills to help there kids succeed.

Why don't you go back to school and study up on English yourself. I see at least 2 errors in one sentence above.

22   RC2006   2010 Dec 22, 1:35am  

tatupu70 says

elliemae says


What did anyone expect when we imported so many low skilled, none educated people; they don’t even have the basic skills to help there kids succeed.

Why don’t you go back to school and study up on English yourself. I see at least 2 errors in one sentence above.

Attack my grammar all you want just like the photo all you can do is argue about things other than the substance of the post. Why don’t you just say that Illegal immigration has had no effect on our schools and explain? Do you really think that illegals and their children benefit our schools, and the children of legal citizens?

23   elliemae   2010 Dec 22, 1:52am  

rpanic01 says

tatupu70 says


elliemae says

What did anyone expect when we imported so many low skilled, none educated people; they don’t even have the basic skills to help there kids succeed.


Why don’t you go back to school and study up on English yourself. I see at least 2 errors in one sentence above.

Attack my grammar all you want just like the photo all you can do is argue about things other than the substance of the post. Why don’t you just say that Illegal immigration has had no effect on our schools and explain? Do you really think that illegals and their children benefit our schools, and the children of legal citizens?

Actually, Tat, 'twasn't my grammar. I realize that the country has a huge immigration problem, but with the billions we're spending on wasted wars and the crap we attach to bills in congress/senate, we could wipe out the education issue altogether. We could wipe out the widespread poverty problem the same way. Our country is broken when we have to hold a bakesale to fund our schools while we spend billions on wars & new aircraft that doesn't work.

Children need education. We don't pay our teachers enough so they work in the private sector, then we complain that our children aren't well educated.

rpanic, you made a racist statement so don't get your panties in a wad because you were called on it.

24   Cainlord   2010 Dec 22, 3:42am  

something to keep in mind, when people say "They do the jobs Americans won't do", you need to add the following on the end of that statement "at the wage I am willing to pay".

To those who do those jobs, the pay they get here is significantly higher than in there home countries. One of "them" here can support quite a few people there on one income.

If there was a place in the world that was paying along those lines in comparison to the US, trust me, you would see those countries complaining about US illegals.

Until we crackdown on those that employ them make the penalties meaningful in conjunction with better enforcement of our immigration laws, it won't stop. PERIOD.

25   kentm   2010 Dec 22, 3:56am  

Future Cash Buyer says

teacher union give teachers a bad name

bubblesitter says

It is the race for which union gets the most out of the limited $ CA has

zzyzzx says

Clasroom size is way too small. There should be a minumum of 35 kids in each classroom. Anything less is just to line the pockets of unions.

Ah yes, those incredibly highly paid teachers, sitting near the top of the income bracket with their low workloads and cushy undemanding jobs... They're exactly whats leaching the system. Finally we've discovered the true source of CA's budget issues! But can you give us more details please? You all read Mish's screeds against them but I want to understand exactly how they do it. Please explain it to me.

What is it with you guys and unions anyway? What is the problem with people organizing so they have a chance to balance back an organized manager class? It was unions that allowed the 'middle class' to exist, and now its the continuous union busting in the past few decades that directly relates to to the falling numbers who claim 'middle class' status. And anyway, teachers unions help individuals organize and balance back against evil "big government" intrusion against person income earning freedom. By that count I'd expect you'd be in support of teachers unions.

Vicente says

Where’s the future in teaching in California?
Everyone looks down on you, unlike back when Prop 13 was passed which used teachers as their “poster children”. While old teachers could afford living near the schools they taught at, new teachers still cannot. At least it used to be you could count on job security and a decent pension at the end of all the guff and now that’s going to be flushed too.

Thats the most unbiased assessment I've read here, from my own personal experience. Do any of the people who've posted above actually know what its like to teach in CA? Leaving aside the obvious racist slants, from the nature of the posts I see above I expect there's pretty much zero actual knowledge of daily teacher experience... Zero knowledge about increasing class sizes, growth of private charter schools, prop 13 gutting of most school budgets, lack of resources... and now the recent push toward placing all responsibility on teachers within this system for their performance - see whats happened in LA recently - in addition to what 'No Child Left Behind' demanded of teachers... Personally, I have a hard time understanding why any smart active young person would want to be a teacher in the lower and middle grade schools at all, its such a loosing proposition. The few people I know who currently are teachers want to get out.

Anyway, our kids don't need decent educations, right? They don't need to have bright, sensitive, intelligent, motivated, happy people around them all day instructing them about the world, behavior, values. They just need more Ritalin and then when they graduate, maybe without really being able to read (whatever), they can just join the military and go kill darkies, right? I can't wait until my daughter is at that point.

Anyway, those who really deserve an education can afford to pay for a private school, right?

26   grywlfbg   2010 Dec 22, 3:12pm  

kentm says

What is it with you guys and unions anyway? What is the problem with people organizing so they have a chance to balance back an organized manager class? It was unions that allowed the ‘middle class’ to exist, and now its the continuous union busting in the past few decades that directly relates to to the falling numbers who claim ‘middle class’ status. And anyway, teachers unions help individuals organize and balance back against evil “big government” intrusion against person income earning freedom. By that count I’d expect you’d be in support of teachers unions.

The problem is with PUBLIC EMPLOYEE unions, not private unions. Here's the difference:

In a private union (say, flight attendants, steel workers, etc), each side has something to lose and something to gain. Management is tasked with earning the most money for their shareholders. The workers are tasked with trying to earn the most money for themselves. This need for balance breeds compromise and I fully support.

When it comes to public employee unions, however, the "Management" (politicians) have no profit motive - it's not their money and no one holds them accountable if they over pay. The unions then pay tons of money to lobbyists and the politician's campaigns so the politicians give the unions more and more generous pay and benefits. If a politican tries to stand up to them the unions resort to scare tactics like this. The balance that is normally struck between management and worker is out of whack. Government pensions used to be given to compensate workers for paying below private sector salaries. But govt workers make as much as private workers and still get those pensions and benefits. Bus drivers in San Francisco make $65k/year. When you add in pension and benefits it at least doubles. BART cops make over $100k/year with lifetime medical and nearly 100% pension. If you assume they work for 30 years and then live another 30 years they're making WAY over $200k/year. These people are ridiculously overpaid.

Public employee unions steal money from the public employees to enrich themselves and lobby politicians. What are you talking about "evil “big government” intrusion against person income earning freedom"? Who pays public employee's salaries? Taxpayers. Public employees ARE the "evil “big government” intrusion against person income earning freedom" because they take more than their fair share from the people who actually. If we had fewer of them and/or paid them less we'd have lower taxes; which means a stronger middle class, not the other way around.

There wouldn't need to be any layoffs if public employees took a pay and benefit cut. In 2008 my company eliminated vacation and cut our pay 10%. Lots of companies have had layoffs. It's time for public employees to share the pain that we've been going through in the private sector.

27   kentm   2010 Dec 22, 4:02pm  

Thanks for the reply, I'll look into this. But my first thought is: Why are teachers getting so fucked over then, if they're so powerful?

All this pension stuff was dandy a few years ago when investments were good. No one, not even the hallowed "Mish", talked about them then. Is it possible you're reacting to a short term drop in interest rates and a general all round as yet unaccounted-for-fuckery-overy by wall street which seemingly has depleted just about everything? You've seemingly internalized billion dollar profits and million dollar salaries & bonuses on Wall Street but you demonize bus drivers?

Every time I hear about how good public employees have it I think: Envy? Just because private industry is lowering our standards is it any reason why we should blame those who've been able to hold onto their dignity?

Anyway, whats happening with public unions in other countries? Discussions on this board always seem to happen as if there's no other place these systems are in play.

What was the profits of your company last year?

28   agrifolia   2010 Dec 22, 4:09pm  

There's no question that illegal immigration has shot the public schools here in L.A. If you compare schools within a single district - say, the LAUSD - which operate under similar budgets, you'll see that those that have lots of illegals or their children (or children's children) can be counted on very reliably to be far below average for the district as a whole. It's a sort of sociological constant. There've been a couple of new schools built in L.A. over the past few years that have each cost hundreds of millions of $ (including one that cost a half billion+) and which are in areas that have sizable illegal populations. Just watch how they perform over the coming years. It's not rocket science.

29   American in Japan   2010 Dec 22, 4:16pm  

@elliemae

Good comment. I wish people would realize how much of the budget is spent on the military. It amounts to as much or more than 190 other countries...put together. I am not a pacifist here, but when will there be balance?

30   kentm   2010 Dec 22, 4:18pm  

agrifolia says

There’s no question that illegal immigration has shot the public schools here in L.A

Have you looked at how prop 13 has impacted the system? An intelligent distribution of wealth across the system and an adequate income equivalency for all schools would go tons toward providing basics, I'd expect.

The make-up of the student body should have no impact on the quality of education. And why should individual districts have to fend for themselves? Is it not one education system we supposedly have, not individual local isolated fiefdoms? What do we have in this system if not broad unification and greater benefits through pooling of resources?

31   lenar   2010 Dec 22, 4:27pm  

elliemae says

rpanic, you made a racist statement so don’t get your panties in a wad because you were called on it.

Hmm.. no, he/she really didn't. Which part of his/her post was racist? Mention of anchor babies, a very real problem in CA? Guess what - you are the racist here if you draw the correlation between anchor babies and a specific race. Or do you question the effect that children with lower education standards have on school system?
And yes, it's typical leftist BS - pulling race card whenever social issues are brought into light.

32   kentm   2010 Dec 22, 4:43pm  

But it wasn't ellie that mentioned race first in relation to education, bubba. And I suppose you folks are simply 'realists' for having mentioned 'anchor babies' in this context... that wasn't racist at all, no. But because she points it out you call her a racist? Ha. Ha ha.

rpanic01 says

With all the illegals and anchor babies education will never be as good as it once was

So prove its not a racist statement then, please school me on how the make-up of the student body and their supposed background affects the entire standards and structure of the education system?

I can see how it would tax teachers in individual classes, but in the entire education system? Come on.

33   Â¥   2010 Dec 22, 4:44pm  

kentm says

Every time I hear about how good public employees have it I think: Envy?

Allegedly there's going to be $6.7T of government spending going on in 2011. Where is all this money going???

That's around $60,000 PER HOUSEHOLD.

34   kentm   2010 Dec 22, 4:46pm  

Troy says

6.7T of government spending going on in 2011

more facts please, whats the breakdown?

35   lenar   2010 Dec 22, 4:48pm  

kentm says

The make-up of the student body should have no impact on the quality of education.

That's wishful thinking, I'm afraid. Quality of education is a function of many variables - chemistry of a classroom, peer pressure among students, attention span of a teacher, level of preparation of a teacher are some of them, and they all depend on the make-up of the student body.

36   kentm   2010 Dec 22, 4:50pm  

Pooh, those are all incidentals to the support & structure of a well structured system.

37   lenar   2010 Dec 22, 4:54pm  

kentm says

So prove its not a racist statement then, please school me on how the make-up of the student body and their supposed background affects the entire standards and structure of the education system?

That's not how it works. _You_ prove that it is a racist statement. Which race does the statement above belittle? Last I heard, anchor babies are not a race.

38   kentm   2010 Dec 22, 4:58pm  

Whatever. Play stupid word games... Okay, I don't know WHAT you wrote could have prompted such an absurd statement on my part. Now please show me how the make-up of the student body and their supposed background affects the entire standards and structure of the education system.

39   lenar   2010 Dec 22, 4:59pm  

kentm says

Pooh, those are all incidentals to the support & structure of a well structured system.

Well structured system is a meaningless concept until you realize that it's composed of elements. The ones you call "incidentals" (hint)
I've been through some very good and not so good schools. Oftentimes, class body was _the_only_ thing that made a difference.

40   kentm   2010 Dec 22, 5:03pm  

A well structured system is different from a well structured classroom.

You're attempting to put the weight and then the blame on individual classes and teachers, which is exactly the battle teachers face in a system that is unable to support them. Its not the way it should be. You need to take a broader approach.

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