patrick.net

Walmart doesnt have a union, so nothing to bust.

ChrisLA says

Walmart doesnt have a union, so nothing to bust.

I think that's the entire point of the job, to Keep Walmart non-unionized. There have been a number of lawsuits against Walmart involving unfair labor practices. How much longer can they remain union free, when it's increasing obvious that only with a Union, employees will get a fair shake from Walmart?

TechGromit says

How much longer can they remain union free, when it’s increasing obvious that only with a Union, employees will get a fair shake from Walmart?

How dare you suggest that a union can ever be a good thing.

All they have to do is underpay their employees, refuse to offer benefits and treat them like shit. It's worked for years - what could go wrong?

The same folks who fight unions are the same folks who hire undocumented gardeners, maids and painters for their personal needs.
The cotton picking confederates are alive and well and Johnny Reb has yet to stop yelling.

Since walmart pays shit wages, I wonder if it pays union busters a comparable wage.

If they don't like the job they can go work somewhere else, isn't that the idea of free enterprise?

ChrisLA says

If they don’t like the job they can go work somewhere else, isn’t that the idea of free enterprise?

In another thread you said this article was interesting. If you read it you might find the answer to your question. The answer is that free enterprise alone doesn't guarantee decent opportunities for all.

ChrisLA says

Troy says

http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/01/20/norway-entrepreneurial-paradise/

Like I said, geo-libertarianism might, might, have a chance of working in the real world. I doubt it but I’d like to take it as a starting point.

Norway fascinates me because they in fact do capture most of the resource rents their primary sector is creating, instead of letting collect in the private sector and thus distort the economy with a few haves and a bunch of have-nots, like what happens to most areas that have the “resource curse” and what happened somewhat during the robber baron age of 1850-1910 here in the US.

This is very interesting. I have never paid much attention to Norway before. Thanks for the article Troy.

"Nor is there any reason why the state should not help to organize a comprehensive system of social insurance in providing for those common hazards of life against which few can make adequate provision. Where, as in the case of sickness and accident, neither the desire to avoid such calamities nor the efforts to overcome their consequences are as a rule weakened by the provision of the assistance – where, in short, we deal with genuinely insurable risks – the case for the state’s helping to organize a comprehensive system of social insurance is very strong. There are many points of detail where those wishing to supersede it by something different will disagree on the details of such schemes; and it is possible under the name of social insurance to introduce measures which tend to make competition more or less ineffective. But there is no incompatibility in principle between the state providing greater security in this way and the preservation of individual freedom."

The Road to Serfdom, F.A. Hayek

TechGromit says

How much longer can they remain union free, when it’s increasing obvious that only with a Union, employees will get a fair shake from Walmart?

Bless your heart, you've hit the exact meat of the whole issue.

ChrisLA says

If they don’t like the job they can go work somewhere else, isn’t that the idea of free enterprise?

Sure, but another part of the idea is that they can organize and agitate to convince an employer to recognize the value of their labor...

So why is it fair 'free enterprise' practice when an organized company/management group fires employees or screws them around, but employees organizing to help themselves is not?

kentm says

Why is an organized company/management firing employees fair practice for ‘free enterprise’, but employees organizing to help themselves not?

Yeah, this is something that I never really got.

Executives organizing and negotiate through proxies = free enterprise

...but...

Workers organizing and negotiating through proxies = not-free enterprise

?

mikey says

The same folks who fight unions are the same folks who hire undocumented gardeners, maids and painters for their personal needs.

I wonder how many undocumented Gardeners, Maids and Painters the typical Walmart employee can afford to hire. Bet it's not many.

While I do agree that unions sometimes push things too far, like when they burden an employer with completely unnecessary union rules that cost an employer a competitive edge. But there comes a point where the employer is taking such advantage of there employees that a union is the only way working conditions are going to get better for them.

marcus says

How dare you suggest that a union can ever be a good thing.

Have a few negative feeling against unions do you?

http://www.alan.com/2011/03/05/five-things-unions-have-done-for-americans/

While not all unions are good in the long run, they vastly helped the average American worker over the last 100 years.

^^
Fallacy: Voting with your money -- "Don't shop there"

People who have more money have a bigger share of the "vote" People with no money have no vote. Instead, you "get what's yours" by taking part in our democracy by speaking out and voting.

kentm says

Sure, but another part of the idea is that they can organize and agitate to convince an employer to recognize the value of their labor…

value is only what one is willing to pay for it. bagging groceries is hardly a 6 figure qualification. wal mart can do what they like, its their money.

marcus says

In another thread you said this article was interesting. If you read it you might find the answer to your question. The answer is that free enterprise alone doesn’t guarantee decent opportunities for all.

I'm not sure what your point is exactly. Life is not fair, it never has been, it never will be. Fairness is a flexible concept. Is it fair to pay someone with no job skills just as much money as someone with a masters degree? Maybe in some circumstances it is, maybe it is not. Only market can decide that, not one shot fit all government.

I wouldn't be able to start a business if I had to pay everyone 6 figures.

I personally do not care of walmart unionizes. it really is up to walmart.

The fear of lynching of the rich and powerful captures the imagination, when daily life (see Libya and Syria right now) is full of the mistreatment and killing of the poor and middle classes.

Kind of like how driving is far more likely to kill you than flying in an airplane, but people tend to be more afraid of the latter.

Outside of the most bloodthirsty phases of a long-delayed revolution (which often last mere hours or days at most), massacres of the upper crust are exceedingly rare; not so for the butchery of common people.

I'm no Robespierre, but looking at the history of the world, esp the US, the people who usually feel the business end of a baton, noose or rifle barrel were usually striking workers, Indians, and uppity negroes rather than Daddy Warbucks types. I can't think of one event off the top of my head involving a mob rampaging through Beverley Hills or the Upper East Side dragging random capitalists out for lynchings.

Envy is part of human nature. In every human society, there's an expectation of reciprocity from the members of the tribe who have the most Yams and Salmon. Potlaches, Public Festivals, etc. When the gifting for obedience mechanism breaks down, violence ensues.

Modern Conservatives want their wealth to go wholly undistributed, but continue to expect obedience to the authorities (themselves). They want the protection of the tribe, without the burden of looking after their fellow's welfare in return. Ancient Conservatives were much smarter, and realized that good order required a measure of noblise oblige.

thunderlips11 says

Conservatives want their wealth to go wholly undistributed, but continue to expect obedience to the authorities. They want the protection of the tribe, without the burden of looking after their fellow’s welfare in return.

You are just too out of touch with reality.

ChrisLA says

You are just too out of touch with reality.

Klaatu Barata Nicktu.